Originally posted by umcorian

 From what I've seen, it seems like the only thing that's really changing in this game's combat is speeding up and getting a user interface that doesn't look and act like garbage. Isn't that something on the scope of a big patch rather than a re-release?

No, that's not even remotely true. Go back and really look at the videos and the developers articles.

Originally posted by Satimasu

Originally posted by umcorian

Originally posted by Waldoe

Originally posted by umcorian

I'll certainly give props to Square Enix for recognizing how poor this game was on release and basically wanting to take it offline and do it properly. Despite that, I'm a little confused as to why MMORPG.com is putting this game "under development" along with other up and coming games in 2013. From what I've seen, it seems like the only thing that's really changing in this game's combat is speeding up and getting a user interface that doesn't look and act like garbage. Isn't that something on the scope of a big patch rather than a re-release?

 

IMHO, the game has already been developed. Not enough is changing for this to be considered a new title, starting with no character wipes. If you buy this "in development" game on its "launch day," you're going to see extremely powerful characters from 2010. There's really no difference from a new player standpoint from buying this game and buying a game that's been on the market for 1-2 years. The economy is also going to be extremely top-heavy, encouraging players to sell whatever can be used by higher level players rather than use them to progress personally... which kinda sucks for a game that originally marketed itself with one of the most engaging, diverse crafting systems ever created.  

 

I think it's pretty misleading and ingenious to put this on the same list as ArcheAge, The Elder Scrolls Online or any of the others competing for hype. 

 

Not exactly going to lose sleep over this, but this just doesn't seem right. It's the same game that got its shot in 2010. If there was a list for "expansions in development," I could see this being put on that list, but when this thing hits the market, it's going to be no spring chicken and new characters are going to start well-behind characters who played this "in development" game back in 2010... so I'm not sure giving it the same weight as legitimate up-and-coming MMOs is appropriate. 

I read nothing but your OP. You must not know how to google at all. The game was basically rebuilt from the ground up. Almost every single aspect of the game has changed. 

 

For a taste of the massive changes go here http://www.ffxivcore.com/topic/33824-ffxiv-a-realm-reborn-and-everything-you-need-to-know/

 

Pretty much a brand new game if you ask me aside from some of the early story quest lines.

 

Actually, it was my use of Google that saved me $60 on the initial game... because I googled gameplay footage taken from the 1.0 beta and decided after 4 minutes of watching that this game didn't have a chance. 

And I'm dubious how they can rebuild a game from the ground up, but retain everyone's progression. The game is obviously not that different at its core if carbon copies of characters are preserved wholesale and seemlessly integrated into the new version. The infrastructure must still be completely the same.  New maps are nice and all, but just because Cataclysm redid the maps in WoW didn't make it WoW 2.0 and qualify it for a new release.

 

 

So, you still don't believe what people are telling you, or what? They're working on moving all the character data to the new game. It's a new game engine. So no, it's not the same core. If it was, there would be no need to shut down 1.0.

Um, which people should I believe? People can't seem to agree on the color of  crap as far as this game is concerned.

One says 1-20 will take 30 minutes. Another says it will take 30 hours.

One says characters will be non-transferable to the new world. Others say they will.

One rude, clearly biased person gives me a link to a thread written by another clearly biased fan from a clearly biased fansite with no citations other than a few cut-and-pasted letters that only discuss general changes. Since when does this pass as proof of anything?

All the info pages don't answer one very simple question: If this is a brand new game, why are there max level characters before release? 

Originally posted by DarknessReign
Umcorian , look at the info thread on this forum , also watch the before and after video the game is a new game re built , some same aspects , guild leves , jobs , skills , areas , story tweaks . Graphically way way WAY different the zones changes , mob placements changed mob types per. Area changed music changed , UI changed , asfor HOW SE has everyones chr from V 1.0 they data stored everyones info its no different then if you quit a MMO and did not delete your chr then 6 months latter pick the game back up and restart billing and use the same chr. That's not rocket science.

And again, how is this different from what Cataclysm did for WoW? Way different zone changes. Mob placements. Area music changes/changes, UI changes... that's all stuff that gets covered in expansions.

A re-release with pre-existing characters sounds pretty lame and I really don't see compelling evidence that this should be on a list that puts it in competition with new games that haven't yet been released.   

Originally posted by umcorian

I'll certainly give props to Square Enix for recognizing how poor this game was on release and basically wanting to take it offline and do it properly. Despite that, I'm a little confused as to why MMORPG.com is putting this game "under development" along with other up and coming games in 2013. From what I've seen, it seems like the only thing that's really changing in this game's combat is speeding up and getting a user interface that doesn't look and act like garbage. Isn't that something on the scope of a big patch rather than a re-release?

 

IMHO, the game has already been developed. Not enough is changing for this to be considered a new title, starting with no character wipes. If you buy this "in development" game on its "launch day," you're going to see extremely powerful characters from 2010. There's really no difference from a new player standpoint from buying this game and buying a game that's been on the market for 1-2 years. The economy is also going to be extremely top-heavy, encouraging players to sell whatever can be used by higher level players rather than use them to progress personally... which kinda sucks for a game that originally marketed itself with one of the most engaging, diverse crafting systems ever created.  

 

I think it's pretty misleading and ingenious to put this on the same list as ArcheAge, The Elder Scrolls Online or any of the others competing for hype. 

 

Not exactly going to lose sleep over this, but this just doesn't seem right. It's the same game that got its shot in 2010. If there was a list for "expansions in development," I could see this being put on that list, but when this thing hits the market, it's going to be no spring chicken and new characters are going to start well-behind characters who played this "in development" game back in 2010... so I'm not sure giving it the same weight as legitimate up-and-coming MMOs is appropriate. 

Read all this info then tell me it shouldn't be said that its under development  All FFXIV:ARR INFO can be found here New Letter From Producer 1-23-13

Originally posted by DarknessReign
You miss the point ffxiv was the name of V1 , V1 is no longer playable , you can't log on it is gone forever . A new game called ffxiv a realm reborn is the new game . A expansion is content you add on to a functional game. FFXIV V1 is NOT a functional game. Some things are similar but ultimately it is a different game .

Okay, but come launch of this "new game", every minute you spent developing your character from the old, no-longer playable game carries over, doesn't it? My question is should this game really appear on the same list as 2013 new releases, when new players are going to begin so far behind the curb? 

Can you name any other "new game" where this happens? Where characters who essentially participated in a 2 year long beta get to keep everything they had when the "new game" actually launches? 

Moreover, if this is a "new game", does everyone have to pay the box fee, including vets of the old game? Something tells me no and while that's cool of them to do that, this *really* couldn't make it further from a new game.

It should not be on the same list as the 2013 new releases. 

@Umcorian

I have played this game since the original alpha. Version 1.0 has shut down. Version 2.0 might not be a nre game in the traditional sense, but might as well be. You really need to have been there from the begining to truly appreciate the amount of change from the original terd SE released. But you cant, so I do advise closely reading all the material.

One of the major changes is a new engine. Thats not something you can just swap out like a router. One of FFXIVs major problems was the original engine, that was so shitty, they could barely get it to function. And was the reason why simple things like LS mamagement, being able to trade or sell more than a a few things at a time, and lag was so horrible. Turns out the old enhgine wasnt even designed for an MMO lol.

The point is that there are so many many changes its practically a new game. I dont even know if I agree with all the changes or some of the end game direction 2.0 is taking, but thats another argument.

Let me explain it this way: Assume FFXIV 1.0 is a building that needed to be condemned. SE could demolish the building and then remove all the old materials from site. Then start a Brand New building with fresh new materials. Instead, what they have done is demolish the building, then built a new foundation. Then used the old materials to rebuild the building, with a new layout.

Originally posted by umcorian

All the info pages don't answer one very simple question: If this is a brand new game, why are there max level characters before release? 

 

It's pretty straight forward.

The game that was initially released was more the work/direction of the former head developer. That didn't work out well for a lot of reasons.

So instead of scrapping everything they decided to allow players to keep the work they've done; though I suspect they will have to tailor their characters to any new changes, and essentially flesh out/alter the game in such a way that they believe it will work better/be more enjoyable.

As someone having played the original as well as the alpha I can say that the game has a different feeling while still feeling like the same world.

It's hard to describe and I'm not going into my work in the alpha. but the differences can be felt. Whether one likes the differences or not is a matter of opinion.

Is it completley brand new? no. Is it still in development? yes. It's as if they looked at the original and said "hey, it needs to cook more and we need to add a few spices/ingredients that weren't in the original as well as "reduce" it a bit to get at the core of what the game is about.

So yes, it's being further developed and enhanced and shuffled around a bit while still having a strong vein of what went right in the first incarnation.

I think "new incarnation" fits it very well.

Consider the old game dead and this is a completely new game, set in the same universe as the old one. Yes, it really should be considered as a MMO that is 'in-development'. Since all it shares with the old game is the universe it exists in and some of the design artwork. Even the game engine has been redesigned from the ground up.

Granted I think the old engine was better, but this new one should give it a wider market.

So yeah, its a completely new game, using the old name to try and save face.

Originally posted by DarknessReign
Another point your missing is this. V1 was such a failure that SE said we will remake it better. And to save face with the people who stuck with the game we offer you a life time discount we call it legacy status. And we will also save all your data so you can play in the new world. As for brand new players most will come from the PS3 version of the game ( both PC and PS3 Players will play together) V1 never made it to PS3. New players (lvl1) can pick . Server with JUST fresh lvl1s (everyone is a newbee) or pick a server where all the vets are. At launch anyone above lvl 1 will be on a vet server. NOT on a newbee server. The other thing you are not thinking about is never has a company with a utter failure of a MMO ever said sorry we will fix it and do it until SE did it . (Witch they should know how to make a MMO FFXI is on its 10th year) with that said there is no being behind the curve because all new accounts have the option New servers with newbees or vet servers with all vets. And again the Vets don't get that option .

I assure you, I didn't miss that point. I honestly think this is a very poor argument to use to prove to me this is not a new game. I'm not unsympathetic to the fact that even the producers have said V1 was a catastrophy and apologized for it. Nor do I think gving anyone who bought the first game this "legacy status" is a bad idea. But all this is apples and oranges and doesn't make this a new game. 

The only reasonable point here is the creation of new servers, where all can start on even footing. But a lot of folks - including me - have friends who played V1. I have to choose between playing on a server where everyone starts out with a new game experience or playing with friends and starting 2 years behind the curb. 

As such, I really don't think this game belongs on the same list as the other 2013 new releases. 

Originally posted by Sovrath

Originally posted by umcorian

All the info pages don't answer one very simple question: If this is a brand new game, why are there max level characters before release? 

 

It's pretty straight forward.

The game that was initially released was more the work/direction of the former head developer. That didn't work out well for a lot of reasons.

So instead of scrapping everything they decided to allow players to keep the work they've done; though I suspect they will have to tailor their characters to any new changes, and essentially flesh out/alter the game in such a way that they believe it will work better/be more enjoyable.

As someone having played the original as well as the alpha I can say that the game has a different feeling while still feeling like the same world.

It's hard to describe and I'm not going into my work in the alpha. but the differences can be felt. Whether one likes the differences or not is a matter of opinion.

Is it completley brand new? no. Is it still in development? yes. It's as if they looked at the original and said "hey, it needs to cook more and we need to add a few spices/ingredients that weren't in the original as well as "reduce" it a bit to get at the core of what the game is about.

So yes, it's being further developed and enhanced and shuffled around a bit while still having a strong vein of what went right in the first incarnation.

I think "new incarnation" fits it very well.

 

I suppose. Still dubious over the whole "retain character" thing, but I suppose it can't be helped. I am impressed by the scope of the changes and am actually pulling for this title to some extent, even if I probably won't be buying it just given the wealth of tempting new games that are coming out this year. Namely because I hope Final Fantasy 15, 16, 17 or 18... or something... will eventually measure up to Final Fantasy 4 or 6.  

Better chance of that if they actually don't go bankrupt. :) 

[mod edit]

I wasted my money on this game in its first incarnation, I won't be doing it for the second until I see proof that it's even worth playing let alone paying for, and since the only way to get that is to pay and sub for this new "expansion", that won't be happening, especially not after the security breach I had to spend even more hard cash to nullify. 

Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.

Originally posted by Sephiroso

Originally posted by umcorian

Could have fooled me. You even have a higher posting count. 

Didn't bother reading the rest of that. You sound like you're 7. 

did you really just pull the post count thing? ...i feel bad for even pointing out the reason but i have to because if the ignorant stay ignorant then the world isn't getting any better

 

Ok i'll keep it simple, since i doubt you can handle anything to intensive.

1. Look at the year your account was created. Okay?

2. Look at the year my account was created. Okay?

3. ??? (what does this ever really mean?)

4. Logic

Please don't try to sound intelligent with the way you type. It's... creepy.

Anyway, I'm all done here. Thanks for the discussion/info on FF14. 

OP people are getting upset because it seems your motives are to twist a knife in an already injured beast. I for one applaud SE for going back to the drawing boards and re-developing the game. Not many games attempt to do that, and try to get a legitimate second chance. The amount of effort alone is enough to warrant my interest in the second launch of this game.

Anyways, sort of back to the original topic. Perhaps MMORPG.com needs a new category aside from the binary "In-Development" and "Released" statuses. Since FFXIV is attempting something rarely seen, it may be more apt to place it in the "Re-Development" category. Of course this really is a case of semantics, because no one has access to the final product at the moment. It shouldn't matter if there is pre-existing data or not. If it is "in-Development", then by god it is "in-Development"!