Originally posted by Vesavius

 

 

What made me chuckle about your post are the words under your avatar... 'I just wish I had something positive to say'...

Pot calling kettle maybe?

The most depressing posts on these forums, in my opinion, are those continously criticising the community here. You say this is a miserable place to visit? I ask you what are *you* doing to make it better? How does having 'nothing positive to say' create a better environment? At least the guys that complain about the games are here talking about *games* and not other posters.

Like I say, you are not *in* traffic, you *are* traffic. No one is better or made superior (except in their own head) by talking as if it the other guys fault all the time. Folks need to look at their own content and tone and their contribution to the forums before attacking others IMO.

As in most things in life I feel you will find here what *you* want to find here. Depressing people will find it depressing, fun people will find it fun, debaters will find a debate. You will get offended if you want to be offended.

Improve things by being a objectively critical constructive poster with a sense of humour and a resiliant skin, not whinging about others. Lead by example. That's my advice anyhow.

 I can't see how your posts in this thread are any different. Just look at the sentence in yellow. Which looks nothing more than a reverse of the statements you're criticizing. Secondly I don't see anything wrong with members of a community looking inward at their community as well as it's habits, as that's how things get better in most situations.

Originally posted by Yamota

I think even one of the mmorpg staff, who had test-played the game, said it was a ThemePark so I think it is pretty much a sure thing that it is. And an Elder Scrolls game, which are traditionally open ended sandboxy RPGs, contrary to linear story based one's like Dragon Age, being created as a ThemePark deserves to be hated.

It is like taking a piss on your fanbase and creating something completely else.

*cough*

*cough*

It's never stopped you before.

You buy and play these games anyway.

Originally posted by Distopia

Originally posted by Vesavius

 

 

What made me chuckle about your post are the words under your avatar... 'I just wish I had something positive to say'...

Pot calling kettle maybe?

The most depressing posts on these forums, in my opinion, are those continously criticising the community here. You say this is a miserable place to visit? I ask you what are *you* doing to make it better? How does having 'nothing positive to say' create a better environment? At least the guys that complain about the games are here talking about *games* and not other posters.

Like I say, you are not *in* traffic, you *are* traffic. No one is better or made superior (except in their own head) by talking as if it the other guys fault all the time. Folks need to look at their own content and tone and their contribution to the forums before attacking others IMO.

As in most things in life I feel you will find here what *you* want to find here. Depressing people will find it depressing, fun people will find it fun, debaters will find a debate. You will get offended if you want to be offended.

Improve things by being a objectively critical constructive poster with a sense of humour and a resiliant skin, not whinging about others. Lead by example. That's my advice anyhow.

 I can't see how your posts in this thread are any different.

They are different because I am not calling the whole community depressing.

I also give positive constructive advice.

Fundamental differences.

Look, we can squabble about this for 4 more pages, or you can see the spirit what I said was offered in and take it as that. We can *all* be better. It is never just the other guys fault. Look to ourselves before criticising others. Lead by example.

I prefer to not trade blows over this one tbh. I will just say what I have said and you guys can take or leave it. In the end it really makes no difference to me in the long run.

Originally posted by Aerowyn

Originally posted by Istavaan

Originally posted by Yamota

I think even one of the mmorpg staff, who had test-played the game, said it was a ThemePark so I think it is pretty much a sure thing that it is. And an Elder Scrolls game, which are traditionally open ended sandboxy RPGs, contrary to linear story based one's like Dragon Age, being created as a ThemePark deserves to be hated.

It is like taking a piss on your fanbase and creating something completely else.

just like how warcraft was an rts and they made it a mmorpg, is that not pissing on your fanbase? You've no idea what this game will be like yet you are hating it already, see it for yourself before you start throwing tantrums.

very much agreed.. the blind hatred over themeparks on these forums is just sad... from all i have read sounds like they have some solid ideas so hopefully it will pan out

We all know he will pick up the game, then subject everyone to "I TOLD YOU SO!"

Originally posted by Vesavius

They are different because I am not calling the community depressing.

I also give positive constructive advice.

Fundamental differences.

Isn't the purpose of a thread like this to attempt to get people to open their mind a little and give things a chance? Is that not positive advice?

It appears that it's TESO's turn to be hated on after GW2.

Both games have bright futures...despite what this community says.

Originally posted by ShakyMo
It's already too late they've been working on the game for 5 years

You are right. Zenimax wont change a damn thing. This train is on the tracks and speeding towards its destiny

Its too late to stop it.

Originally posted by ShakyMo
It's already too late they've been working on the game for 5 years

Well, you are right in some ways.

I'm hoping that maybe they can at least open factioned areas for exploration purposes only.  No PvP (althought I would've like some type of wpvp flag option - I'd settle for exploration), players would wear a disguise while traveling in other areas, can't talk to NPCs, use vendors or see chat.  They can go into towns and cities to look around but nothing else.

I also seen another poster suggesting that players pick a faction at character creation.  You would be given perks to choose ESO's planned factions (such as xp or coin boosts) but you could forfeit these and make your own choice.

I hate to be such a hater, I really do.  I don't mind that people like the game but I'm just really disappointed.  Usually I'm optimistic and defend titles from the haters.

Originally posted by Distopia

Originally posted by Vesavius

They are different because I am not calling the community depressing.

I also give positive constructive advice.

Fundamental differences.

Isn't the purpose of a thread like this to attempt to get people to open their mind a little and give things a chance? Is that not positive advice?

Like I say, people can take or leave what you choose to from what I posted. It's up to them. It's not a cleverness competition and I don't really do intentional 'forum PvP' like a few around here take pride in.

I also was editing the post above while you was responding, just for the record.

Originally posted by PyrateLV

Originally posted by ShakyMo
It's already too late they've been working on the game for 5 years

You are right. Zenimax wont change a damn thing. This train is on the tracks and speeding towards its destiny

Its too late to stop it.

Yes, they are advertising the beta now, the best you will get is tweaks, the fundamentals will be solidly in place. It is what it will be, for good or bad.

Originally posted by Aerowyn

Originally posted by sapphen

Originally posted by Aerowyn

very much agreed.. the blind hatred over themeparks on these forums is just sad... from all i have read sounds like they have some solid ideas so hopefully it will pan out

Blind Hatred?  The hate it's getting is because they locked races to factions and then limit the area we can explore.  You are the one that sounds blind.  If you can't take a moment to read what people are saying then you shouldn't comment.

i have only see that mentioned by a couple people i have seen numerous times people posting they hate this game already because it's branded a themepark.. i highly doubt any of them have played beta tried the game in any fasion or have any experience in it at all so i'd call it pretty blind..

I'm sorry I jumped your case, I've seen that arguement also.  I understand that zenimax can't make a complete sandbox out this game.  I've always seen Elder Scrolls as a mixture between sandbox and themepark.  I think they should've used oppertunities to create sandbox elements into the game such as freedom to explore and to pick a faction.  That (so far) is my only disagreement.

I would have to say that someone not liking the game because they heard it was a themepark would be blind.

Originally posted by sapphen

Originally posted by Aerowyn

Originally posted by sapphen

Originally posted by Aerowyn

very much agreed.. the blind hatred over themeparks on these forums is just sad... from all i have read sounds like they have some solid ideas so hopefully it will pan out

Blind Hatred?  The hate it's getting is because they locked races to factions and then limit the area we can explore.  You are the one that sounds blind.  If you can't take a moment to read what people are saying then you shouldn't comment.

i have only see that mentioned by a couple people i have seen numerous times people posting they hate this game already because it's branded a themepark.. i highly doubt any of them have played beta tried the game in any fasion or have any experience in it at all so i'd call it pretty blind..

I'm sorry I jumped your case, I've seen that arguement also.  I understand that zenimax can't make a complete sandbox out this game.  I've always seen Elder Scrolls as a mixture between sandbox and themepark.  I think they should've used oppertunities to create sandbox elements into the game such as freedom to explore and to pick a faction.  That (so far) is my only disagreement.

I would have to say that someone not liking the game because they heard it was a themepark would be blind.

Exporation depends on how large they make their zones, if it's anything like DAOC I don't see that being a problem, unless you want to visit enemy zones of course.

Originally posted by Yaevindusk

...The MMO genre has very much been "bastardized" in a matter of speaking; those who started in the 90s or early 00's typically loved MMOs for what they were...  

Agreed. There is a huge gap in mindset between the people who played mmorpgs before WoW, versus those that started after. WoW signalled a massive shift in mmorpgs; games became much less hardcore when levelling and far more accessible to casual players. That was a good thing in many ways, but a bad thing in others. People talk about wanting the good ole pre-Wow days, but at the same time I think their memory is biased somewhat: they remember the good things more than the bad.

MMORPG.com has a lot more of the old school players, so you are going to get a different perspective here than from the mmorpg player base as a whole. The problem is, making a game that appeals mainly to old school players probably wont be financially successful, especially for a game like Elder Scrolls which has a huge player base, most of whom are not hardcore PvPers. There is no way that ESO will put years of development and  tens of millions of dollars into a game with limited mainstream appeal. That may be what the old school players want, but its not a viable business model for a game with widespread appeal like Elder Scrolls.

Plus, when you listen to the old school players talk about what made the games they liked great, they often dont agree. They have many different wants and perspectives. It wouldnt be possible to design a game for them because there is no one game that would satisfy most of them. They will complain about what the game companies do, not accepting the fact that investors arent going to fork over $100M to design a game to appeal to 100k people. A smaller indie company might spend less and target that nicke market, but not a game based on Elder Scrolls. I am sure they are aiming for 1M+, and you wont get there by designing a game for hardcore PvPers. First and foremost they need to satisfy a large chunk of the ES/Skyrim player base, and make sure that the game is appealing to a wide variety of players. They say max level can be reached in 120 hours and that is obviously aimed at casual and semi-casual players.

By the way, I am an old school gamer, but have spent decades in the business world, I dont let my gaming desires blind me to the financial reality these companies are facing. Like it or not, WoW has revolutionized the industry and greatly upped the curve in terms of $ and polish required to publish a game, and massively changed the playerbase. Any game aimed at mainstream players would be foolish to ignore that.

its a good thing most people  dont give a rats ass what  the majority of people think on this website.

 i am sure  this site is also the worst thing that could ever happen to the industry as well, having an overload of know-it-alls in one spot, with no ambition but to hate on any gamethat is dofferent from their gameplay style.

play it if you like it, dont if you dont,  nuff said

Originally posted by Yaevindusk

...The MMO genre has very much been "bastardized" in a matter of speaking; those who started in the 90s or early 00's typically loved MMOs for what they were...  

Thats a bold faced lie. There were TONS of flame wars in the late 90s early 2000s that were so bad that every single gaming site today has a very LONG list of "rules" today because of them. One of those flame wars were so bad that one of the largest guilds of UO/EQ/AC1 SPLIT because of them...the BKs. That flame war stated on one website and jumped to others, hell the "lore" sites lost the majority of its posters because it got so bad that it was taking place in almost all of different gaming sites they were running, and at the time the lore sites were the most popular.

They received such a bad rep that LoDs, Black Knight Brigade almost ended up changing thier names because of being associated with them and literally had to get their members to join gaming sites on a PR campaign...all of it due to an arguement over how the upcoming MMOs are going to ruin the genre...and techically they were right, Anarchy Online did end up having a piss poor launch and told other companies that they could release a game in piss poor shape and still make money.

I will check it out, I´m looking forward to this game, not sure how good it will be though. Not really super excited, but let´s see what further infos will be released.

It´s a little too "oldschool" probably for today´s expectations. Again classes, levels, PvP warzones and so forth in a fantasy setting. Nothing really special about it, except the licence and single server technology like TSW has.

I like TSW for the classless system and for my gritty low fantasy "medieval times" taste I have loads of fun in Age of Conan and the fantastic combat system and PvP over there, which might be similiar to what TESO will offer.

Elder Scrolls should have been more of a sandbox to be true to the original *shrug* 

Originally posted by Eol-

Originally posted by Yaevindusk

...The MMO genre has very much been "bastardized" in a matter of speaking; those who started in the 90s or early 00's typically loved MMOs for what they were...  

Agreed. There is a huge gap in mindset between the people who played mmorpgs before WoW, versus those that started after. WoW signalled a massive shift in mmorpgs; games became much less hardcore when levelling and far more accessible to casual players. That was a good thing in many ways, but a bad thing in others. People talk about wanting the good ole pre-Wow days, but at the same time I think their memory is biased somewhat: they remember the good things more than the bad.

MMORPG.com has a lot more of the old school players, so you are going to get a different perspective here than from the mmorpg player base as a whole. The problem is, making a game that appeals mainly to old school players probably wont be financially successful

Matter is, you know, that almost all MMORPGs after WoW were modeled along those same theme-park lines and failed miserably (and financially in the first place). The nail in the coffin of this kind of prejudice was SWTOR but it seems that history and experience never teach anything.

Originally posted by Distopia

Exporation depends on how large they make their zones, if it's anything like DAOC I don't see that being a problem, unless you want to visit enemy zones of course.

This is TES, there is no enemy zones - just the world of Tamriel.  I'm talking about the no bountries connected landmass that TES fans have been waiting for.  I am not happy with being thrown a bone and told to make an alt.