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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Lets figure this out: How can we improve the community?

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258 posts found
  Kebeck

Novice Member

Joined: 5/27/07
Posts: 323

1/27/13 10:14:28 AM#121

Haven't gone through all the answers but here's mine :

First, we need a change of perspective : when filling the ranks of a guild, no matter the game, we shouldn't look for the best players but for the nicest ones. If they can be nice AND good, that's a plus.. People really need to go back to the basics and remember why they started playing MMOs in the first place.. Interactions, common goals, cooperations... the older ones like me will want to add exploration to that too..

Second, do not tolerate mean, anti-social, a** hats (or whatever you want to call them) around you, the reason they keep roaming is that we keep accepting those behaviors are normal on the internet and that WE have to suck up and deal with it. When it should really be the other way around. So keep the morons out of your guild and groups.

Those two help marginalize the odd ones and like every normal human being, if they keep getting painted in a corner, they'll grow bored and leave or adjust their behavior in order to be accepted by the group.

Finally, another small point, just be nice... Help out the people around, group up with strangers for no other reasons than just play the game with them... Put to use all the stuff your mother used to tell you when it comes to social interactions and you should be just fine.. ;)

  LadyEuphei

Novice Member

Joined: 4/16/12
Posts: 226

 
OP  1/27/13 10:19:09 AM#122
Originally posted by Loktofeit

Is a community anything more than a clique? If you force the rap fans into the same group with the metal heads and the country music boys,  does it create a better or worse scenario than allowing each to gravitate to their own group? You say cliques cause disturbance between groups but you don't see the contradiction in that statement. Would it be any less disturbance to have those groups on top of each other? The disturbance happens when they are forced to clash. 

Rather than paste the whole thing here, here is a link that explains the benefits of division further. 

 

If you're looking for lyrics to an updated rendition We Are the World, we can work on that, but if we are looking for an actual solution, allowingpeopel to function like people makes far more sense. 

Thank you for spelling clique  I see your point, allowing people to do what they want. I am a college student so maybe my view is skewed from someone that is a bit older. I feel like as soon as I got in college the cliques died and it is just a melting pot. Everyone is together and I do not see many cliques. Maybe after college that all changes, but I like how I can talk with someone and they are completely different than me. It just takes a certain amount of civility to communicate between cliques. 

Also, how would you implement said cliques? Like they can create sub forums? or sub servers in a game?

  Jayaris

Novice Member

Joined: 9/05/08
Posts: 340

Hi

1/27/13 10:19:24 AM#123
Originally posted by LadyEuphei
Originally posted by Jayaris

Woooooo, you need a hug friend  Just so you know, I know their is evil, and all the stuff you are talking about. I have lived alot of places, and seen some stuff I wish I could un-see. I choose to see the world as good because I hope it is mostly good.

I understand that alot of people are like you, that they see the negative and live in it and can't see the positive. People think that it is intelligent to be negative, that they have a better view of everything. I say it is the oppostie. People the live in the negative have a negative life and people that live in the positive have a positive life.

If you can not tell already, I read the secret a while ago and I really thought it was an amazing concept. Basically, for anyone that has not read it I can sum it up as: you are what you think. Think happy you'll be happy and happy things will happen to you.

I think we can make a difference, I like to think the world is good and nice, and I am a very optimistic person. We are not here to discuss me though, but to come up with an idea to help the community as a whole be happier, nicer people!

I think I'm good for a while. 

You hope it is good, how's the meant to help anyone else?

You clearly don't understand me at all, I'm not negative.

There is so much love and joy in me, for my friends, my family and the world as a whole. There is so much hope in me, but when I see a naive person posting illegitimate information about how wonderful the world is I just have to shake my head and say:

"No, that's ridiculous."

You read the secret huh? So I'm talking to a person who doesn't even have their own views in life. Why bother when in a few years you'll be onto the next fad?

You can't make a difference if you think the world is good and nice. You can only fix something if you see it for what it is. 

I'll do my best to make a difference, but you, you've got a long ways to go before you can even hope of doing anything worthwhile. 

I would recommend by forgetting everything you've heard from "The Secret" and going to "The Library". 

Happy =/= Nice

Happy people might have a little more social tolerance, but that's where it ends. 

 

Hi

  Loktofeit

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 12405

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, ArcheAge, and Combat Arms

1/27/13 10:21:09 AM#124
Originally posted by LadyEuphei

Have you guys ever heard about the just laugh thing? If you are sad or whatever just force yourself to laugh or smile. You end up feeling better and wanting to smile. You could say the same thing might happen hear.

It is possible that making a player be nice so they may get their "EPIX L00TZ" may also inturn make them happy and nice because they were doing it. Just a thought.

If everyone did that, the world would be a much better place.

I can't tell if your replies are the result of naivety, a cleverly hidden agenda or trolling, so I'm done here.  Cheers! o/

"And wikipedia is as accurate as Britannica. Wikipedia is very reliable. You would be hard pressed to find a more reliable source for these kinds of things." -fivoroth

  Bladestrom

Elite Member

Joined: 4/04/11
Posts: 3854

1/27/13 10:23:01 AM#125
Agree with above, in wow hiring is all about 'skill' and track record for example, which is driven by a game consumes with 'progression'. As people are defined by these attributes peeps over all it puts a horrible skew on aggressive and competitive behaviours above all. In gw2 you get a very different vibe in guild, although I have been in a gw2 guild that had leadership that tried to foster the 'hardcore' blah blah attitude and it was a total social void.

Rift interestingly has a kind of middle ground due to the greater options for progression.

My point is that you can clearly see the relationship between game style and behaviour.

rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW (10000 hrs on main mage)> oblivion > LOTR (600 runemaster/Hunter) > Rift (230 hours mage) > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar

Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR

  Loktofeit

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 12405

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, ArcheAge, and Combat Arms

1/27/13 10:24:07 AM#126
Originally posted by Jayaris

Happy =/= nice.

Happy people might have a little more social tolerance, but that's where it ends. 

Very good point. 

"And wikipedia is as accurate as Britannica. Wikipedia is very reliable. You would be hard pressed to find a more reliable source for these kinds of things." -fivoroth

  AlBQuirky

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 1/24/05
Posts: 3476

Tomorrow's just a future yesterday...

1/27/13 10:29:18 AM#127


Originally posted by LadyEuphei
Again, this is just a differing whole view of society. You think they are evil, I do not. Saying you know a few truely evil people is like saying you know a fat gamer so we are all fat.

And yet your "everybody is good" view is any different? I did not say, nor ever will say, "Everybody (or society) is evil." I said there are evil people within society. This is a huge difference. Everyone has good and evil aspects in them. Everyone has the choice which side to let out. Evil people, when they want something, can be the nicest people in the world. Until they get what they wanted.


Originally posted by LadyEuphei
Now you did stumble on a good point. If we could make people feel like their actions stick. That action will have reprecussions and that karma is in effect on the internet, maybe people would think twice about being rude. With no feed back system in place, it is a waste of time for people to care about what they do.

In the early days of United States settlement, shunning was an effective punishment for wrongdoers. Wouldn't work in today's ultra-interconnected society, though. Unfortunately, we are dealing with businesses here, and every ban costs that business income. There is one good point for B2P models here :) Ban a player and you already have their money from the box sale. No loss to the business side, unless they are spending cash in your cash shop.


Originally posted by LadyEuphei
Maybe some system to make people think about their actions?

I would be all for this. But in my opinion, these systems are up to game companies, not the players. I would love to see physical threats and rape/stalking/death threat comments get banned from games.

Trash talk is different for different people. Whenever a comment gets under one's skin, the other player has crossed that player's personal line. How does one "regulate" that? Or do we go totally to the other side and ANY trash talk is a ban-able offense? I wouldn't mind, but that crosses over the freedoms line for me. True, we only have the freedoms that others give us, and especially with regards to gaming, but I just personally get my hackles up at the mere thought of restrictions, for the good or bad. I truly want people to be who they are, for the good or bad.

It is a very slippery slope when one wants to regulate how others act. What is offensive to one is not always offensive to others. Who gets to decide?

- Al

Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
- FARGIN_WAR

  Icewhite

Made History

Joined: 7/11/11
Posts: 6495

Pink, it's like red but not quite.

1/27/13 10:30:55 AM#128
Originally posted by Kyleran
Not sure why a more obvious solution doesn't have more traction. Strong, active moderation by the people who run the game.

And if we ever find ourselves wondering "what happened to great communities from days of yore", you've just answered the question.

Active moderation is expensive. Strong+active moderation is enormously expensive.

You can't do either with 1:50000 staff ratios. Never could.

Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  Bladestrom

Elite Member

Joined: 4/04/11
Posts: 3854

1/27/13 10:47:17 AM#129
Yup you can't moderate general behaviour even if you could afford the costs. Ultimately it's the environment and happiness of the population that determines behaviour. Games that do not reward selfish behaviour for example (e.g shared loot tables) help

rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW (10000 hrs on main mage)> oblivion > LOTR (600 runemaster/Hunter) > Rift (230 hours mage) > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar

Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR

  LadyEuphei

Novice Member

Joined: 4/16/12
Posts: 226

 
OP  1/27/13 10:54:13 AM#130
I believe we have gotten off topic. Any other ideas of how to make a community less toxic?

  Bladestrom

Elite Member

Joined: 4/04/11
Posts: 3854

1/27/13 10:59:21 AM#131
Allowing people to flag positive (only) comments that adds to a score that contributes to a users 'valued member' profile would work IMO. The score deteriorates over time, but you cannot negatively score someone.

rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW (10000 hrs on main mage)> oblivion > LOTR (600 runemaster/Hunter) > Rift (230 hours mage) > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar

Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR

  LadyEuphei

Novice Member

Joined: 4/16/12
Posts: 226

 
OP  1/27/13 11:03:45 AM#132
Originally posted by Bladestrom
Allowing people to flag positive (only) comments that adds to a score that contributes to a users 'valued member' profile would work IMO. The score deteriorates over time, but you cannot negatively score someone.

Kind of like the honor system. I think this is a good direction. Directing players to say what they think is or who they think is good, instead of having them solely focus on who is doing or being bad.

  Goatgod76

Novice Member

Joined: 6/24/06
Posts: 1226

1/27/13 12:33:01 PM#133
Originally posted by Rednecksith
Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by eyelolled
Make more sandbox games. Eliminate hostile player interactions. Eliminate chat.

Some but not all of this sites problems would go away if there were a greater diversity in gaming options. Namely more games like EVE, there are plenty of options when it comes to games like WOW. A few well made games that focus on player interaction/community as well as conflict like EVE, would go a long way toward appeasing many of the individuals posting here IMO. Not trying to speak for people, only offering an observation.

Please don't bring EVE into this. EVE's community is one of the most hostile, intolerant ones I've ever been a part of. Oh sure, they're all nice and sweet as long as you 'toe the line' when it comes to political / religious views. However, should you even hint that you believe something contrary to those views, you will be ostracized immediately. Not just that, but station camped, threatened with death, etc. In fact, I was forced to reroll because I let it slip in general chat (very amicably, and just in casual conversation with people whom I thought I knew) that I held a differing opinion.

Sad thing is, I'd formed gangs with some of these people. When I was new, they gave me money and helped me out. Yet they turned on me the second I voiced a differing opinion, without any hope of reconciliation.

Granted it's not the same as sexism / racism because I choose my own beliefs, but I sure as hell shouldn't be getting death threats because of them (unless I were a Klansman or something, although even then it's extreme).

The most damnable thing of all is that I filed tickets with CCP, and presented them with the EVEmails I got threatening my life. What did I get in return? "Oh, use the ignore function"

Yeah. Thanks a fucking lot, CCP.

How about not condeming EVE because of YOUR bad experience either. Despite it being a PvP game where you can run into nasties...like ALL PvP games, there are PLENTY of nice people. Just depends on who you allow yourself to fall in with. I did a lot of 0.0 space time and met some of the nicest and most helpful people.

 

Who were you with? Goon Squad? Would explain a LOT.

  Goatgod76

Novice Member

Joined: 6/24/06
Posts: 1226

1/27/13 12:33:57 PM#134
Originally posted by Bladestrom
Allowing people to flag positive (only) comments that adds to a score that contributes to a users 'valued member' profile would work IMO. The score deteriorates over time, but you cannot negatively score someone.

Good idea too.

  Coman

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/29/04
Posts: 1958

1/27/13 12:42:57 PM#135
Originally posted by LadyEuphei
Originally posted by Bladestrom
Allowing people to flag positive (only) comments that adds to a score that contributes to a users 'valued member' profile would work IMO. The score deteriorates over time, but you cannot negatively score someone.

Kind of like the honor system. I think this is a good direction. Directing players to say what they think is or who they think is good, instead of having them solely focus on who is doing or being bad.

This is not a honor system. If I would voice my opinion that would go against the mainstream idea poeple will not vote for me. Even if it's the best developed and writted opinion around. Yet an unfounded opinion everyone agrees with would get the votes. It would not make the community better, but it would shun those with different opinions and changes are trolls wlll just give points to other trolls. So they even have more points then the guy who discusses extreamly well, but has an different opinion. 

Look at Youtube for this. Half the "top" comment are troll post or jokes that are copy pasted around youtube. An other example of this system is Chatroulette. 

Decided to try out the new system they implemented. Got one conversation that laster just longer then 10 minutes. The other conversation lasted less then 10 second before they clicked me away. My account got blocked duo to to much bad feedback. If I was called "hotBlondy" and had an image of a good looking women you bet I would not get my account blocked. So I am really against a unregulated system like this.

Also then what? You still have the same "Toxic" elements. They will not rate as good, so then we just disregard the opinion of EVERYONE with a low rating?  

  Quirhid

Elite Member

Joined: 1/28/05
Posts: 5725

Correcting wrongs on the Internet...

1/27/13 12:49:03 PM#136

Part of why small-scale PvP becomes so elitist and, in LoL's case, toxic for newcomers is because of the skill demand in matches. If one guy fucks up, the whole team may lose. Thats 1/5 in LoL - 20% of your team.(*)

In large scale PvP, no one hardly ever notices if you fuck up. You're just a drop in the sea, your effort is barely measurable. No one holds you accountable. Then again, the downside is that since your contribution is so small, you won't have a chance to "carry" either: There's fewer heroes.

(*) Part of LoL's problem is that you can also lose the match within the first 5 minutes and likely you'll have to wait for atleast another 15 minutes before you can start a new one. Often more than that, because somehow some people think they can win even if the situation is hopeless and refusing to concede the match hence leading into longwinding one-sided matches. A lot of frustration is born this way. And the chat is one place to vent that.

I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  Quirhid

Elite Member

Joined: 1/28/05
Posts: 5725

Correcting wrongs on the Internet...

1/27/13 12:51:15 PM#137
Originally posted by Bladestrom
Allowing people to flag positive (only) comments that adds to a score that contributes to a users 'valued member' profile would work IMO. The score deteriorates over time, but you cannot negatively score someone.

It doesn't. Players have already abused a similar system in LoL. It actually improved the community for a week or so, but then it quickly devolved into what it was before. You can grind it up through your friends to a point you give no value to a player who has "friendly" or "teamplayer" tags on their name.

I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  maplestone

Novice Member

Joined: 12/10/08
Posts: 3109

1/27/13 1:36:54 PM#138
Originally posted by NaughtyP

You can't change the world, but you can change who you game with.

I agree with this to a certain degree (despite the fact that being a soloist suggests some unflattering things about how I must see the rest of humanity).  But one of the primary draws of an MMO (or an MMO forum) is that it puts us in contact with strangers - we're all here in this discussion right now because we want to hear and be heard, we want interaction.  We just want it in a format we're comfortable with.

So although retreating into my like-minded niche is a solution vs the most toxic environments (I'm still feeling pretty drained from the UO community flamewars even years after I stopped playing), there's another side to the equation.  We want to be around people, so how can games better introduce two random people with very different personalities and preferences and give them a world in which they can see each other as a friend, without asking one person or the other to simply assimilate to the other's way of playing/thinking.  

  Maephisto

Novice Member

Joined: 2/15/12
Posts: 653

1/27/13 1:59:27 PM#139

I think our view of the gaming community is different from the community as a whole. Gamers who also participate heavily in forums are in the minority (trying to find source, I didnt just make that up). 

I also think the more competitive a game is, the worse the community actually is.  So if you actively play a game that is also an esport or competitive in nature, then your experience is going to be far worse than that of a person who plays a regular game. 

  Jemcrystal

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/02/08
Posts: 1380

Let em put a slave ring thru u're nose u're prob not going to like where they're taking you. Think.

1/27/13 2:13:06 PM#140
Why do you assume the gaming community can have better morals than the world at large?

Next time if they ask your name tell them "Your Overlord." There's nothing more satisfying than an Arby's employee repeatedly yelling over the munching masses, "Your Overlord's classic cheddar is up!!!"

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