Originally posted by Kuppa
@kade
Look at the big picture. The events themselves are similar to other attempts but with a bit of a different spin like you mention. But the game is built around them completely, which definitely males it very different and at the very least a "revolution".

I'd say it was a significant change from the previous game for sure.

Rift was also based around Rifts.  You know, the name and all too ha

You can argue how much you like that you feel single DE chain is the same as "?" or it's repeative and whatnot.

When the entire gameworld is built on DE then we have something new, the world itself is in motion, the world feels more alive, things happends around you with or without your presence.

You see a caravan moves on the road, the NPCs are talking about this and that and they keep moving on the road, there is no ? over their heads.

You keep doing your stuff, mining gathering, killing mobs, then when you run past that same caravan down the road one of the guards feel sick and they are talking about wherenever you are there or not.

It all opens up later on to a DE.

That I feel is more a living breathing world were things happends around you, not a NPC standing still with a ? over their heads and the mobs you are suppose to kill are standing still on a field across that fence.

That is what GW2 is all about, not how boring or simplistic a single DE might be in your opinion It's the whole game that moves and change around you, that's the real dynamic gameplay.

Originally posted by Jean_Luc_Picard

Originally posted by Myria

When you feel the need to start your post with a pointless insult, you've already well and truly lost.

Learn to read everything (and understand it) before answering

When Guild Wars 2 was first announced several years ago a set of features and goals was specified. Among those features were dynamic events. At the time, no game had attempted anything even close to what was described in the interview. Since that time, several games have used the term Dynamic Events to describe random events (RIFT comes to mind) but random events are not dynamic events. I am not even sure you can call Rift's events random as they always occur at the same location and after a specific amount of time had passed since the end of the previous event.

Dynamic Events as envisioned by Mike during the interview were indeed revolutionary. They like many other features included in the first announcement, did not quite come out the way they were envisioned at that time. All that said; dynamic events as they are found in Guild Wars 2 today are head and shoulders better than any other implementation I have seen (I have not played SW:TOR so I am not addressing those).

I am going to paraphrase the OP, I can't wait until real dynamic events become common place.

Originally posted by kzaske

When Guild Wars 2 was first announced several years ago a set of features and goals was specified. Among those features were dynamic events. At the time, no game had attempted anything even close to what was described in the interview. Since that time, several games have used the term Dynamic Events to describe random events (RIFT comes to mind) but random events are not dynamic events. I am not even sure you can call Rift's events random as they always occur at the same location and after a specific amount of time had passed since the end of the previous event.

Dynamic Events as envisioned by Mike during the interview were indeed revolutionary. They like many other features included in the first announcement, did not quite come out the way they were envisioned at that time. All that said; dynamic events as they are found in Guild Wars 2 today are head and shoulders better than any other implementation I have seen (I have not played SW:TOR so I am not addressing those).

I am going to paraphrase the OP, I can't wait until real dynamic events become common place.

OK so its totally theirs because they changed the name.

Sorry but i gotta agree that no one has done them right yet. There is nothing Dynamic about the Dynamic events. They all have some kind of queue to start them off. Thus they are simply a ingame event. From timers to Talking to specific NPC's something triggers them. If something triggers them they aren't dynamic.

Originally posted by Rayshe

Originally posted by kzaske

When Guild Wars 2 was first announced several years ago a set of features and goals was specified. Among those features were dynamic events. At the time, no game had attempted anything even close to what was described in the interview. Since that time, several games have used the term Dynamic Events to describe random events (RIFT comes to mind) but random events are not dynamic events. I am not even sure you can call Rift's events random as they always occur at the same location and after a specific amount of time had passed since the end of the previous event.

Dynamic Events as envisioned by Mike during the interview were indeed revolutionary. They like many other features included in the first announcement, did not quite come out the way they were envisioned at that time. All that said; dynamic events as they are found in Guild Wars 2 today are head and shoulders better than any other implementation I have seen (I have not played SW:TOR so I am not addressing those).

I am going to paraphrase the OP, I can't wait until real dynamic events become common place.

OK so its totally theirs because they changed the name.

 

Sorry but i gotta agree that no one has done them right yet. There is nothing Dynamic about the Dynamic events. They all have some kind of queue to start them off. Thus they are simply a ingame event. From timers to Talking to specific NPC's something triggers them. If something triggers them they aren't dynamic.

 

the win/fail states do change them though no matter how they are triggered they will not always be played out the same.. during the first months so many people swamred all the zones of tyria almost no one got to see any fail at all.. even now many areas still have to many people during some events making them unable to fail.. when this happens you never get to see the alternate part of many of these events.. also im really trying to figure out how dynamic event in any way equates to permanent long lasting effect or infinitely changing variable with no loops.. GW2 quest system is in a constantly moving state of change which to me makes it a dynamic system.

Also in a game you ALWAYS need some sort of trigger it could be anything like you said a timer, a npc gets talked to, a certain event happens that starts another event,  something but you need a trigger... how would any program know when to start doing anything without any instruction.. think many people have a very off sense of what computer programming AI can actually acomplish.

Originally posted by Rayshe

 

Sorry but i gotta agree that no one has done them right yet. There is nothing Dynamic about the Dynamic events. They all have some kind of queue to start them off. Thus they are simply a ingame event. From timers to Talking to specific NPC's something triggers them. If something triggers them they aren't dynamic.

 

Except what triggers them has nothing to do with them being dynamic or not.

And just to be more silly: for something to be dynamic it requires "trigger" without "trigger" its static lol

Im getting bored of quting myself so feel free to look for visual display of dynamic, its getting really silly how people want to change the definition of dynamic lol

Originally posted by Aerowyn

the win/fail states do change them though no matter how they are triggered they will not always be played out the same.. during the first months so many people swamred all the zones of tyria almost no one got to see any fail at all.. even now many areas still have to many people during some events making them unable to fail.. when this happens you never get to see the alternate part of many of these events.. also im really trying to figure out how dynamic event in any way equates to permanent long lasting effect or infinitely changing variable with no loops.. GW2 quest system is in a constantly moving state of change which to me makes it a dynamic system.

Also in a game you ALWAYS need some sort of trigger it could be anything like you said a timer, a npc gets talked to, a certain event happens that starts another event,  something but you need a trigger... how would any program know when to start doing anything without any instruction.. think many people have a very off sense of what computer programming AI can actually acomplish.

It seems that anything short of AI creating stuff on the move is failure to them lol

+ i dont really see how a totally random game would work lol these people really have no clue what they are arguing about

+ i dont really see a point of events starting "randomly" whats the point of event going off if theres nobody there except unnecessary server clutter?

+ i never heard ANet say every DE has infinite number of variations and spawns totally new stuff every time you go through it, contrary, iirc they said that DEs have few possible outomes and if you repeat same DE youll inevitably repeat stuff

Originally posted by mikahr

Originally posted by Rayshe

 

Sorry but i gotta agree that no one has done them right yet. There is nothing Dynamic about the Dynamic events. They all have some kind of queue to start them off. Thus they are simply a ingame event. From timers to Talking to specific NPC's something triggers them. If something triggers them they aren't dynamic.

 

Except what triggers them has nothing to do with them being dynamic or not.

And just to be more silly: for something to be dynamic it requires "trigger" without "trigger" its static lol

Im getting bored of quting myself so feel free to look for visual display of dynamic, its getting really silly how people want to chabge the definition of dynamic lol

Originally posted by Aerowyn

the win/fail states do change them though no matter how they are triggered they will not always be played out the same.. during the first months so many people swamred all the zones of tyria almost no one got to see any fail at all.. even now many areas still have to many people during some events making them unable to fail.. when this happens you never get to see the alternate part of many of these events.. also im really trying to figure out how dynamic event in any way equates to permanent long lasting effect or infinitely changing variable with no loops.. GW2 quest system is in a constantly moving state of change which to me makes it a dynamic system.

Also in a game you ALWAYS need some sort of trigger it could be anything like you said a timer, a npc gets talked to, a certain event happens that starts another event,  something but you need a trigger... how would any program know when to start doing anything without any instruction.. think many people have a very off sense of what computer programming AI can actually acomplish.

It seems that anything short of AI creating stuff on the move is failure to them lol

So how is it a dynamic event, if the outcomes are always the same?

There are a few outcomes for each event, but always the same outcomes - it doesn't turn into something completely unexpected and shocking.  It's just the same end points over and over and over.

If you want to talk dynamic, there's always EVE and the actual actions of players.

The Guild Wars 2 events are mostly just a faceless zerg where any sort of communication isn't required, and the anonymous players drift off after never really knowing who anyone there was.

People are helping each other in Guild Wars 2 because of game design, and they are also playing together far less, because of game design.

Originally posted by kadepsyson

Originally posted by mikahr

Originally posted by Rayshe

 

Sorry but i gotta agree that no one has done them right yet. There is nothing Dynamic about the Dynamic events. They all have some kind of queue to start them off. Thus they are simply a ingame event. From timers to Talking to specific NPC's something triggers them. If something triggers them they aren't dynamic.

 

Except what triggers them has nothing to do with them being dynamic or not.

And just to be more silly: for something to be dynamic it requires "trigger" without "trigger" its static lol

Im getting bored of quting myself so feel free to look for visual display of dynamic, its getting really silly how people want to chabge the definition of dynamic lol

Originally posted by Aerowyn

the win/fail states do change them though no matter how they are triggered they will not always be played out the same.. during the first months so many people swamred all the zones of tyria almost no one got to see any fail at all.. even now many areas still have to many people during some events making them unable to fail.. when this happens you never get to see the alternate part of many of these events.. also im really trying to figure out how dynamic event in any way equates to permanent long lasting effect or infinitely changing variable with no loops.. GW2 quest system is in a constantly moving state of change which to me makes it a dynamic system.

Also in a game you ALWAYS need some sort of trigger it could be anything like you said a timer, a npc gets talked to, a certain event happens that starts another event,  something but you need a trigger... how would any program know when to start doing anything without any instruction.. think many people have a very off sense of what computer programming AI can actually acomplish.

It seems that anything short of AI creating stuff on the move is failure to them lol

So how is it a dynamic event, if the outcomes are always the same?

There are a few outcomes for each event, but always the same outcomes - it doesn't turn into something completely unexpected and shocking.  It's just the same end points over and over and over.

If you want to talk dynamic, there's always EVE and the actual actions of players.

The Guild Wars 2 events are mostly just a faceless zerg where any sort of communication isn't required, and the anonymous players drift off after never really knowing who anyone there was.

 

People are helping each other in Guild Wars 2 because of game design, and they are also playing together far less, because of game design.

still going by my guess you hardly put much time into this game at all and are making tons of assumptions.. not all events have the same exact outcome everytime that's the point there is a win/fail state to the system.. and again i was never under the impression dynamic means it permanently changes something or has a million variables as outcomes.. this would be a coding nightmare and would cause so many bugs and glitches the game would be unplayable...

Main thing GW2 needs for its events is a little more variation and like i said earlier some events that do have long lasting effects but in turn trigger new sets of events for longer periods of time..

Also yes GW2 combat requires less communication because its an action oriented game you don't have time to sit and type stuff,  you need to know how to move in battle and how to fight along with others.. they gave everyone a rez and everyone has tools to assist eachother and it makes you able to play with others without the constant need for direct communication. Again it's a design choice i enjoy others may not..

Originally posted by kadepsyson

So how is it a dynamic event, if the outcomes are always the same?

There are a few outcomes for each event, but always the same outcomes - it doesn't turn into something completely unexpected and shocking.  It's just the same end points over and over and over.

If you want to talk dynamic, there's always EVE and the actual actions of players.

The Guild Wars 2 events are mostly just a faceless zerg where any sort of communication isn't required, and the anonymous players drift off after never really knowing who anyone there was.

 

People are helping each other in Guild Wars 2 because of game design, and they are also playing together far less, because of game design.

rofl, some people seem to cant comprehend dynamic even with visual display, sorry bro cant really help you more than that

rotating wheel doesnt have anything "unexpected and shocking" and it "just spins over and over and over in the same fashion" lol and its STILL DYNAMIC rofl

You have WvWvW. Its dynamic. If you want THAT. RIght from level 1.

Of course, people are helping eachother BECAUSE of game design, and i call it DAMN GOOD game design. Ive been in countless "anonymous" groups in forced gruping games before. So what? Forced social interaction is failed social interaction. In fact it turns into opposite - anti social (and look for a definition first before missusing term ant social).

People play together as long as they WANT to, it is the matter of choice, something that you obviously cant comprehend. Games with CHOICES >>>>>>>>>>> than games WITHOUT choices. Thats why WoW triuphed over EQ (or any forced grouping MMO for that matter).

Originally posted by mikahr

Originally posted by kadepsyson

So how is it a dynamic event, if the outcomes are always the same?

There are a few outcomes for each event, but always the same outcomes - it doesn't turn into something completely unexpected and shocking.  It's just the same end points over and over and over.

If you want to talk dynamic, there's always EVE and the actual actions of players.

The Guild Wars 2 events are mostly just a faceless zerg where any sort of communication isn't required, and the anonymous players drift off after never really knowing who anyone there was.

 

People are helping each other in Guild Wars 2 because of game design, and they are also playing together far less, because of game design.

rofl, some people seem to cant comprehend dynamic even with visual display, sorry bro cant really help you more than that

rotating wheel doesnt have anything "unexpected and shocking" and it "just spins over and over and over in the same fashion" lol and its STILL DYNAMIC rofl

You have WvWvW. Its dynamic. If you want THAT. RIght from level 1.

Of course, people are helping eachother BECAUSE of game design, and i call it DAMN GOOD game design. Ive been in countless "anonymous" groups in forced gruping games before. So what? Forced social interaction is failed social interaction. In fact it turns into opposite - anti social (and look a definition first before missusing term ant social).

People play together as long as they WANT to, is the matter of choice, something that you obviously cant comprehend. Games with CHOICES >>>>>>>>>>> than games WITHOUT choices.

I agree with WvWvW being dynamic - especially since it nails the unexpected and shocking.  You know, when an army of opponents kill you and you can't fight back because they are invisible due to the server issues?

Anyways, I agree with  your last bit about games with choices being far better than games without choices.  That's why I would rather play EVE than GW2.

Well in any event, whether the centaurs capture the farm and get to stand there aimlessly, or the farmers keep the farm and get to mill around aimlessly, I don't think these events are any sort of revolution in gaming.

What would have been an impressive step for me to see, is if players had more choice with these events.

Such as, when the centaurs attack the farm, I choose to help the centaurs kill the farmers, and fight off players trying to kill the centaurs.  Now THAT would have been more of a leap towards innovation than a step in a direction well tread.

edit: that would go against arenanets "happy happy everyone win cookies for all casual joy" design philosophy, i know.  Which may be why it'd be amazing

The actual mechanic of DE is vey rudimentary from a game design point of view actually.

We've had a better mechanic in games before but they were in Single Player games.

Just look at the Elite series if you want an example.

However, putting a basic 'outcome-based system' like the DE into an MMO is a new thing.

I suspect we'll see more and more game designs from single player games being put into MMO games moving forward.

Originally posted by kadepsyson

I agree with WvWvW being dynamic - especially since it nails the unexpected and shocking.  You know, when an army of opponents kill you and you can't fight back because they are invisible due to the server issues?

Anyways, I agree with  your last bit about games with choices being far better than games without choices.  That's why I would rather play EVE than GW2.

Well in any event, whether the centaurs capture the farm and get to stand there aimlessly, or the farmers keep the farm and get to mill around aimlessly, I don't think these events are any sort of revolution in gaming.

ooooh, nice strawman there.

And piece of advice - go play EvE then rather than obssessing with GW2 lol

I think EvE is one of the best MMOs and wonder why devs dont take a closer look at EvE and try to learn something, my very eduacted guess is that its just easier to copy WoW (and sell WoW clone 10m subs and such) and see if it sticks (and it doesnt as evidenced by all failed WoW clones, SWTOR being biggest and most expencive one).

Originally posted by jpnz

The actual mechanic of DE is vey rudimentary from a game design point of view actually.

We've had a better mechanic in games before but they were in Single Player games.

Just look at the Elite series if you want an example.

However, putting a basic 'outcome-based system' like the DE into an MMO is a new thing.

I suspect we'll see more and more game designs from single player games being put into MMO games moving forward.

i agree and would expect things only to move forward from here not just in GW2 but in all future games.. there is surely room for much improvement but overall in its current state I have found GW2 DE system is still a good bit ahead of any other questing system out there right now.

The dynamic quests aren't really dynamic as they spawn in the same place, only that you might join a escort event at different points of the map from A to B. the dynamic bit comes that some events are chained with multiple parts. For example there's a gaint beanstalk type tree you have to protect from hordes of undead, if you pass protecting the tree then a boss spawns, if you fail and the tree dies, A) ppl can't do the jumping puzzle to get to the chest and B) no boss event, instead there's a event to escort some ranger from another point of the map to carry and plant the seed to fix the tree lol.

Originally posted by mikahr

Originally posted by kadepsyson

I agree with WvWvW being dynamic - especially since it nails the unexpected and shocking.  You know, when an army of opponents kill you and you can't fight back because they are invisible due to the server issues?

Anyways, I agree with  your last bit about games with choices being far better than games without choices.  That's why I would rather play EVE than GW2.

Well in any event, whether the centaurs capture the farm and get to stand there aimlessly, or the farmers keep the farm and get to mill around aimlessly, I don't think these events are any sort of revolution in gaming.

ooooh, nice strawman there.

And piece of advice - go play EvE then rather than obssessing with GW2 lol

I think EvE is one of the best MMOs and wonder why devs dont take a closer look at EvE and rey to learn something, my very eduacted guess is that its just easier to copy WoW (and sell WoW clone 10m subs and such) and see if it sticks (and it doesnt as evidenced by all failed WoW clones, SWTOR being biggest and most expencive one).

I like to mix up what I play.  Different games depending on what sounds fun at the time.

To be honest, it isn't GW2.  It's the incredible fanboy proclamations.  Sure, I like EVE and play it for years.  However I would not call it perfect and I would say there are some very integral design decisions that I hate and am against.   What is different here, is that the OP loves GW2 and wants to share his ecstacy as much as possible.  Any sort of criticism about the game, or just points made about the claims far more outlandish than anything the developers have said or would say is met with denial.  It is similar to a child covering his ears and shutting his eyes and yelling "na na na I can't hear you!" when you try to tell them something they just refuse to hear.

Guild Wars 2 has some great things going for it.  It is not perfect.  The incredible fanboy devotion and outlandish claims are what I don't like most about it though :)