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Programming  » Game engines that are probably the best for MMORPGs

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54 posts found
  ArChWind

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/19/11
Posts: 482

 
OP  1/20/13 3:37:35 PM#41
Originally posted by Yamota
Originally posted by ArChWind
Originally posted by Yamota
Very interesting post. I am a Java developer and always wanted to build some simple persistant multiplayer game but the problem is that my skills are limited to Java and I have no 3D skills at all. And only Java engine I found which seems feasible is jMonkey but it has no multiplayer support :/

Most of Multiverse server is primarly Java based. Some of it is Perl and python but the core engine is java/python. What I like about this design is it is entirely portable so a Sun System is a valid option. In other words the server can run on a main frame.

 Maybe you may find it useable. Much of the client is Python but if you have good skills you may be able to port it to Java.

Well I looked at the Esenthel engine and it looks really interesting and since I just want to create a simple online game, and not a full fledged MMORPG, the limitations on network code is fine.

However I am not sure how hard it is to learn C++ if you have 5 years of professional Java experience. Do you know?

Also, how hard is it to import 3D models to use? Since I dont have any 3D modeling skills I would look at the many free models out there and possibly buy some simple one's as well.

It is fairl easy to import meshes in Esenthel. The only catch here is the models you will download are going to be WAY WAY to big. You will have to get use to scaling them. I myself use Blender to import models and rescale them. most times it is 100:1 ratio. Oncce they are properly scaled and skinned I open the editor select model and drag the model to the window. If you want animations the make bones for it and rig it in the animation window.

Hey, I am no artist by any means and I got working animated characters after a couple days of learning.

As far as programming, if you have 5 years of Java I bet you can can pick up C++ in a very short time frame.

 

http://www.reddit.com/r/KingdomsofWhren

  Yamota

Elite Member

Joined: 10/05/03
Posts: 6492

"Only cunts name their swords"

1/21/13 2:13:11 PM#42
Originally posted by ArChWind
Originally posted by Yamota
Originally posted by ArChWind
Originally posted by Yamota
Very interesting post. I am a Java developer and always wanted to build some simple persistant multiplayer game but the problem is that my skills are limited to Java and I have no 3D skills at all. And only Java engine I found which seems feasible is jMonkey but it has no multiplayer support :/

Most of Multiverse server is primarly Java based. Some of it is Perl and python but the core engine is java/python. What I like about this design is it is entirely portable so a Sun System is a valid option. In other words the server can run on a main frame.

 Maybe you may find it useable. Much of the client is Python but if you have good skills you may be able to port it to Java.

Well I looked at the Esenthel engine and it looks really interesting and since I just want to create a simple online game, and not a full fledged MMORPG, the limitations on network code is fine.

However I am not sure how hard it is to learn C++ if you have 5 years of professional Java experience. Do you know?

Also, how hard is it to import 3D models to use? Since I dont have any 3D modeling skills I would look at the many free models out there and possibly buy some simple one's as well.

It is fairl easy to import meshes in Esenthel. The only catch here is the models you will download are going to be WAY WAY to big. You will have to get use to scaling them. I myself use Blender to import models and rescale them. most times it is 100:1 ratio. Oncce they are properly scaled and skinned I open the editor select model and drag the model to the window. If you want animations the make bones for it and rig it in the animation window.

Hey, I am no artist by any means and I got working animated characters after a couple days of learning.

As far as programming, if you have 5 years of Java I bet you can can pick up C++ in a very short time frame.

 

Cool thanks. I guess my spare time for gaming got a lot less now :)

  Quizzical

Guide

Joined: 12/11/08
Posts: 13125

1/22/13 11:42:03 PM#43

It's not the engine you use.  It's what you do with it that counts.

Unless, of course, you pick a game engine that wants to do things one way, and you want to do it a different way, and you don't have access to the full source code to change the engine however you want.  Then it is the engine you use.  But that's your fault for trying to make a game without access to the source code for the engine you're using.

And if you never manage to come up with something that you really want to do but the game engine you're using doesn't support out of the box, then you really ought to get some more creative ideas for your game.

  greenreen

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/19/12
Posts: 1391

1/26/13 3:15:16 PM#44
Nice post, I don't expect to use any of these because I'm doing my own 2d schtick. Seeing all of them together and compiled is a nice read to watch the comparisons. Yikes on the 30% one.
  Vorthanion

Elite Member

Joined: 7/02/11
Posts: 1883

1/26/13 3:17:45 PM#45
I like any engine that is designed specifially for MMOs.  I'm tired of single player engines being modified and jerry-rigged into MMOs.

  l2avism

Novice Member

Joined: 5/06/07
Posts: 100

7/10/13 8:35:13 AM#46

With so many indies buying these "engines" to make games they won't finish there is obviously more money being made selling these engines than making indy games.

If you can't make a game with your own engine, you probably won't be able to make the same game with someone else's engine- you'd just hit that reality faster.

There is no engine currently available that becomes an MMO out of the box, so more attention should be paid to game design and less paid to engine design. With any engine, you will still have to code your game logic and design all of the art work.

Buying or making a game engine is only 1% of the work of making a game.

  DMKano

Elite Member

Joined: 6/17/11
Posts: 4560

7/10/13 8:38:42 AM#47

IMO the best engines are in-house built ones like WoW and Defiance (incidentally done by some of the same devs).

Lots of great 3rd party engine like CryEngine3.

But its what you do with the engine that counts.

  Loktofeit

Elite Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 11845

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, Wildstar, and Combat Arms

7/10/13 8:52:53 AM#48
Originally posted by l2avism

With so many indies buying these "engines" to make games they won't finish there is obviously more money being made selling these engines than making indy games.

Because it's easier for a someone to convince himself the problem was a limitation of the engine rather than a limitation of his ability. As we've seen from other threads here, a good number of MMO gamers think they can actually create a decent MMO, so it's easy to sell them engine after engine.

If you look back through each one of these "indie" (1-3 guys, no former titles) teams that are creating an MMO, you'll see that they often switch engine, blaming the one they are abandoning for their hurdles and limitations.

 

DAoC was made using a very early version of GameBryo (NetImmerse), WOW with the WC3 engine, Lineage 2 with Unreal 2(.5?). You can build a solid MMO around most of the major multiplayer engines if you have an experienced or skilled team.

  l2avism

Novice Member

Joined: 5/06/07
Posts: 100

7/10/13 9:43:24 AM#49

Most of what people consider to be good graphics is actually the artwork and map design.

The engine itself does not affect the quality or appearance of the artwork, models, or maps. The engine only controls how well these are rendered and how efficiently they are rendered.

 

For example, crisis 3 looks awesome with crytek3 engine, but ArcheAge also uses Crytek3 and looks nothing like Crisis.

Mortal Online uses the Unreal 3 engine and doesn't look as good as the Unreal games.

The engine alone won't give you good graphics.

  ArChWind

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/19/11
Posts: 482

 
OP  7/10/13 4:37:54 PM#50
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by l2avism

With so many indies buying these "engines" to make games they won't finish there is obviously more money being made selling these engines than making indy games.

Because it's easier for a someone to convince himself the problem was a limitation of the engine rather than a limitation of his ability. As we've seen from other threads here, a good number of MMO gamers think they can actually create a decent MMO, so it's easy to sell them engine after engine.

If you look back through each one of these "indie" (1-3 guys, no former titles) teams that are creating an MMO, you'll see that they often switch engine, blaming the one they are abandoning for their hurdles and limitations.

 

DAoC was made using a very early version of GameBryo (NetImmerse), WOW with the WC3 engine, Lineage 2 with Unreal 2(.5?). You can build a solid MMO around most of the major multiplayer engines if you have an experienced or skilled team.

To some extent that is true.

 

I don’t see engines to be an obstacle at all. I see building a solid team as the biggest hurdle due to shear amount of work involved and the requirement of time to do it. You will not create a competitive game at two and three hours a day invested.
 
Time and effort may be the biggest and most important over looked requirement of building a MMORPG.
 
A small team will take years to build one that would draw attention. Take Repop as an example here. Ten years in development, three engine switches and they have to compete with 300+ games. Not saying they will fail by all means but the time factor is considerable for the risk of return.
 
I personally don’t want to get involved in any project or even my own anymore except as a hobby. In ten years I will be dead probably so I would rather spend my time doing less stressful things like just play someone else MMORPG. :)
 
@i2avsm - You're correct to an extent there.

http://www.reddit.com/r/KingdomsofWhren

  WereLlama

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/13/12
Posts: 190

7/26/13 2:35:27 PM#51

We use unity3d for client and custom built the server (guess you can call it the C engine).

I find the unity3d engine to be extremely intuitive, flexible, and powerful for either 2d or 3d games.

Only thing I dislike is having to re-purchase the bulk of the platform/seat licenses for each upgrade, and they wonder why we don't leap to each new version.

-WL

  Quizzical

Guide

Joined: 12/11/08
Posts: 13125

7/26/13 4:58:49 PM#52
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by l2avism

With so many indies buying these "engines" to make games they won't finish there is obviously more money being made selling these engines than making indy games.

Because it's easier for a someone to convince himself the problem was a limitation of the engine rather than a limitation of his ability. As we've seen from other threads here, a good number of MMO gamers think they can actually create a decent MMO, so it's easy to sell them engine after engine.

Sometimes the reason they relied too much on finding the "right" engine that could do all of the heavy lifting for them is precisely that they lacked the necessary ability to do things for themselves.

There's nothing wrong with using a game engine that will do a lot of the stuff that you need and do it pretty well, while leaving you the flexibility to do yourself the stuff that you need and the engine doesn't have built in.  But if you need the game engine to do everything hard for you because you can't do anything hard yourself, that's not going to end well.

  Darkcrystal

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/06/10
Posts: 749

9/22/13 11:06:23 PM#53
Originally posted by William12

Cryengine is garbage if archeage uses that i would stay away from the game it is NOT ment for MMOs developers keep using these single player or FPS game engines thinking they can make it work but they cannot and the same goes for the hero engine.

 

 

Best MMO engine ?   Wait for it  Forgelight from SOE   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forgelight_Engine

 

Just play planetside 2 once no lag nothing the engine is perfect for massive open world MMOs with hundreds of people on the same screen.   Go try and get 400 people in the same area using hero or cryengine.

By the comments here, their is no way you have experience at all with game engines, Cry Engine is fine Star Citizen is using it, State of Decay has used it, I use it almost daily, it crashes just as much as most of the others when  using, people need to learn on what they can and can't do . Some people think you can do anything and it won't crash, well use it correct and it won't crash as much.

 

All engines crash when making a game, But Unity is one of the better ones and its making head way more and more every day, it also is damn easy to use.. Unreal crashes as much if not more then Cry Engine.

 

Hero for a small company is the best route by far, it is easier to use, or use Unity Pro 4.2  or what ever the new one is, I have 4.2 .

 

Also the one form SOE, I have nothing to say besides LOL...

  ArChWind

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/19/11
Posts: 482

 
OP  5/10/14 1:23:39 PM#54

 


Originally posted by Quizzical

Originally posted by Loktofeit

Originally posted by l2avism With so many indies buying these "engines" to make games they won't finish there is obviously more money being made selling these engines than making indy games.
Because it's easier for a someone to convince himself the problem was a limitation of the engine rather than a limitation of his ability. As we've seen from other threads here, a good number of MMO gamers think they can actually create a decent MMO, so it's easy to sell them engine after engine.
Sometimes the reason they relied too much on finding the "right" engine that could do all of the heavy lifting for them is precisely that they lacked the necessary ability to do things for themselves. There's nothing wrong with using a game engine that will do a lot of the stuff that you need and do it pretty well, while leaving you the flexibility to do yourself the stuff that you need and the engine doesn't have built in.  But if you need the game engine to do everything hard for you because you can't do anything hard yourself, that's not going to end well.
 

 

WOT incomming.

TLDR: Not always the case though.

If you are after a specific design you could spend years and years making the engine do exactly what you want in scalability or you can find the somewhat right engine to do the job somewhat and rather poorly at best. It is a matter of when you find the right engine and when you have researched the right engine and UNDERSTAND how it works that you can start processing your design. Creating a SP game is easy. It is when the networking and database accessing starts to make things tough and having an enterprise level engine with enterprise level database become critical. It is more critical for security that 99% of the game mechanics are server side and the client is nothing more than a dumb terminal to look at the server persistent. So many of these guys go off making a game and put way way to much functionality into the client. They make the server side of it just basically a glue code to show others in the AOI. If you ever intend to make something that will allow more than a few concurrent connections then you need a engine that can do the fucking job!

As for the end product you still need to do the work and understand the engine and its limitation. It is up to you and the team to make that part happen. Yee, yes the game is YOU and YOUR team and their skills. The engine can’t do that for you and never will. Again, making a complex product like a MMORPG either requires a good team to build the infrastructure or an existing proven engine that can do the job for you.

I got off my lazy ass recently ( like a month ago) and started programming again (took 5 YEARS off programming which is way way to much time fucking around with these engines and not enough time writing code) I was going to just sit around and mess with the engine but I got this itch again to build KoW and I am going to continue with or without any support. BWT is a engine that is just amazingly phenomenal in its functionality and I don’t have to touch a fucking line of code to make it work on a client/server relationship. It follows the requirements of KoW as I gave it to ...

1). – be capable of handling a seamless world up to 100 Kilometers square.

2.) – Have a capability of 6 degrees of freedom without pigeonholing players into any forced direction. (The world can lap onto itself if I want it to.)

2). – be capable of distributing the processes across an infrastructure automatically without intervention in a distributed controlled network.

3). – be capable of object linking across a wide spectrum or classes.

The internals are handled for me so I can concentrate on my design and functionality of my design instead of spending thousands of hours trying to make distributed computing work as intended now.

My designer and I sat down and discussed how we are going to build it. We took the first basic building block and designed it with the follow requirements.

1 - All harvestable items in the game world will be static. They will hold a certain amount of product. We could have made it random location but decided not to. The location is fixed because we are going to use a base that will stay once the node is harvested out.

2. – Each harvestable node will have a required tool and skill level.

3. – The number of different node of one type can be expandable up to any limit. We decided to limit them anyway but 255 node types of any category makes way more then we will ever use.

4. – If a player is harvesting a node they can not harvest another.

5. – Any number of players can harvest the node. I set this at 10 by default it could grow so 255 players can try to harvest a node but then it becomes server time issue. Unless I put this on its own cell. (server) Really not a limitation but for a single server it can be a bit hard on game ticks.

6. – If the player moves they will interrupt the processes. (needs fixed atm so interruption is instant. BUG)

7. – Once the node is harvested out it will vanish and will respawn on a timer depending on level and class of node.

8. – The harvest time is fixed for each level But is reduced by a percentage for each skill level of the player and which level of tool they have but it is fixed to go no less than one second.


So we had a design that would cover all harvestable nodes in the world BUT we decided to make different types because a tree we want the stump to be harvestable and when the stump is dug out the tree will NEVER respawn. Clear the land of trees in areas where it is allowed. Every tree in the world is harvestable.

I sat down and examined the requirements and built a class for ore nodes based on this information. He created a spreadsheet of 10 different ores with different times, count, level requirements and so on. I then made a database entry of the class based on the information I had. AND finally started writing code.

I made a class called pickaxe that attaches to the player hand. (no model atm)

Since I never want the player able to cheat I made 5 lines of code in the existing client. One to point to my classes this activates when the player clicks on the node and uses his pickaxe.

As the code progressed, I found that at some point the player that harvested out the node never cleared the other players so I made a internal array of players on the node. I found that a player could effectively disable the node by quickly exiting the game and relogging so I made a conditional check when it was full that all IDs were checked if valid against the existing players in the cell.

After all the checking was done and the timer ran out, I put the ore type into the players inventory and calculated the experience. If they leveled past the next level requirement, I leveled them up.

So the end result was under 100 lines of code that covered every single ore node in the game world. It took about 15 hours to write and debug.

This is all server side by the way nothing graphical going on as the video here will show. I am now in process of making a new class that will do something else and I am not at liberty to discuss that since it makes KoW very unique.

http://youtu.be/XScvlkflCoY

 

http://www.reddit.com/r/KingdomsofWhren

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