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News & Features Discussion  » [Column] General: Sexism in Gaming 2012: Anger & Intellect

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234 posts found
  Rohn

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/02/08
Posts: 3754

1/25/13 10:22:15 PM#121

From the heinous, in-team abuse on Cross Assault in February, to the explosion of #1ReasonWhy on Twitter in November, there was hardly a month when sexism wasn’t a major topic in gaming circles.

That's a matter of perception.  If an extremist is looking for evil, he/she will find it, whether it actually exists or not.  It will also be routinely blown out of proportion, and spun in a way that makes it most supportive of The Cause.

Oddly enough, this was not a major topic in any gaming circles I frequent.  Then again, I just play games, and don't hang out in circles that presuppose sexism at every turn.

And by sexism, I mean a tsunami of bile and loathing aimed at women (not only in gaming) in geek circles across the board, mostly for the crime of Existing While Female.

Which wouldn't be substantively different from this gender-baiting article, frothing at the mouth with the condemnation of an entire gender for behavior the author doesn't like.

Given the one-sidedness of the diatribe, it does appear to confirm the bias that only men can be sexist, which is sexist itself.

I didn’t want to come off as “too angry” or, to use phrases commonly slung at women: strident, humorless or shrill. Well, screw that, I am angry. I’m angry at the men who think they have any right to direct and determine what their fellow human beings are allowed to participate in and enjoy. I’m angry at their mob mentality fervor and self-righteous indignation every time a woman dares to express an opinion on a subject they consider their own. Piss on game territory all you like, fellas; it still doesn’t belong exclusively to you.

Is anyone physically denying access to a game?  No.

Speaking of self-righteous indignation, how dare a man disagree with a woman's expressed opinion.  The nerve!

My anger, however, doesn’t stop there. I’m angry at all of us. I’m angry at otherwise good men who don’t speak up when their petulant brethren get out of hand online or in public.

The author appears to feel entitled to define what is or isn't a "good man".  Given the context, it appears that a "good" man would be one that acts or believes in a way in which she approves.  How convenient.

Similarly, who defines when someone gets "out of hand"?  Out of hand, according to who?  Who believes they have the authority to set that standard anymore?  And before anyone claims common civility, realize that civility has changed through the years, and will continue to do so.

Many women have raged for over five decades against men defining them, or having expectations of behavior from them, and yet, in the same breath, these same women believe they have the moral authority to define men's behavior as good or bad.  They don't.

That aside, I believe most feminists would label what the author demands of men here as paternalistic or patronizing behavior, wouldn't they?

I’m angry at women who, terrified of not being allowed in “the club”, rush to disassociate themselves from their slandered sistren with cries of, “I’m not offended!” or “I’m not like those other women, I can take it.”

Or, perhaps they are simply more fair, or less thin-skinned about certain topics, and don't expect some of the "courtly" treatment some of their sistren believe they are entitled to simply because they have a vagina instead of a penis.  After all, gentlemanly behavior is oppressive, right?

That's what I got from this one-sided article.  It's based on the prejudicial premise that men's behaviors are inherently bad, and that women are the arbiters of right and wrong.  I reject the notion that women hold that authority.  In the same way women refuse to be defined by men, I think men should similarly refuse to be defined by women.  That would seem to be more "equal", and seems to be the way society is heading.

Hell hath no fury like an MMORPG player scorned.

  techknowmama

Novice Member

Joined: 11/29/09
Posts: 6

1/25/13 11:06:10 PM#122
Originally posted by maskedweasel
Originally posted by Derros
Originally posted by Istavaan
Maybe women should stop blaming men for everything and take responsibility for their own actions. 

So women are responsible for being treated as second class citizens in some online/geek areas, gaming being one, how so?  By being born?

 

Ah I know the response, ive seen it to many times: "Well if they didnt keep bringing it up, it wouldnt happen! people are reacting! bla bla bla feminist agenda!"

 

yep if we just ignore a problem, it goes right away

 

Lets be honest now... brutally honest...   This is the internet, and MMOs and online games gives all of us 2 things. 1 is Anonymity... the other is Choice.

 

I've created female avatars... and I've played them.  I didn't feal like anyone treated me any more different.  I could have pretended that I was a girl.. but that would serve the desired purpose that I wanted special treatment. 

 

In online games more then any other facet.. women have the chance to be treated truly as equals... with nobody ever having to know they are women.   In comparison though,  sexism aside, racial stereotypes are just as prevalent.  For example, having a Screen Name with predominantly jewish connotations may reveal a much stronger and vile bias from an even worse crowd.  

 

I think pretending like women are suddenly victims in a world where they get to choose to be whatever they want, and still end up feeling like they are overly sexualized or are discriminated against - even though they choose their characters, they choose what they say, and they choose what and how they play, shows some naivety.

so it's are own fault we get harrassed ? because we chose to make a female character or a female name? so if I make a male character with a manly name I ll be safe right? .... but wait ....what happens when I need to use voice communication to warn my team mates their geting flanked, or when leading a raid ?

wow! just wow!

  steamtank

Novice Member

Joined: 7/10/09
Posts: 390

1/25/13 11:22:35 PM#123

so it's are own fault we get harrassed ? because we chose to make a female character or a female name? so if I make a male character with a manly name I ll be safe right? .... but wait ....what happens when I need to use voice communication to warn my team mates their geting flanked, or when leading a raid ?

wow! just wow!

dont game with people on your team that care if you have a vagina or penis?

 

just a theory

  Kreedz

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/11/11
Posts: 448

1/25/13 11:41:53 PM#124
Originally posted by ScaryMonk
Originally posted by Rohn

From the heinous, in-team abuse on Cross Assault in February, to the explosion of #1ReasonWhy on Twitter in November, there was hardly a month when sexism wasn’t a major topic in gaming circles.

That's a matter of perception.  If an extremist is looking for evil, he/she will find it, whether it actually exists or not.  It will also be routinely blown out of proportion, and spun in a way that makes it most supportive of The Cause.

Oddly enough, this was not a major topic in any gaming circles I frequent.  Then again, I just play games, and don't hang out in circles that presuppose sexism at every turn.

And by sexism, I mean a tsunami of bile and loathing aimed at women (not only in gaming) in geek circles across the board, mostly for the crime of Existing While Female.

Which wouldn't be substantively different from this gender-baiting article, frothing at the mouth with the condemnation of an entire gender for behavior the author doesn't like.

Given the one-sidedness of the diatribe, it does appear to confirm the bias only men can be sexist, which is sexist itself.

 

I didn’t want to come off as “too angry” or, to use phrases commonly slung at women: strident, humorless or shrill. Well, screw that, I am angry. I’m angry at the men who think they have any right to direct and determine what their fellow human beings are allowed to participate in and enjoy. I’m angry at their mob mentality fervor and self-righteous indignation every time a woman dares to express an opinion on a subject they consider their own. Piss on game territory all you like, fellas; it still doesn’t belong exclusively to you.

Is anyone physically denying access to a game?  No.

Speaking of self-righteous indignation, how dare a man disagree with a woman's expressed opinion.  The nerve!

My anger, however, doesn’t stop there. I’m angry at all of us. I’m angry at otherwise good men who don’t speak up when their petulant brethren get out of hand online or in public.

The author appears to feel entitled to define what is or isn't a "good man".  Given the context, it appears that a "good" man would be one that acts or believes in a way in which she approves.  How convenient.

Similarly, who defines when someone gets "out of hand"?  Out of hand, according to who?  Who believes they have the authority to set that standard anymore?  And before anyone claims common civility, realize that civility has changed through the years, and will continue to do so.

Many women have raged for over five decades against men defining them, or having expectations of behavior from them, and yet, in the same breath, these same women believe they have the moral authority to define men's behavior as good or bad.  They don't.

That aside, I believe most feminists would label what the author demands of men here as paternalistic or patronizing behavior, wouldn't they?  Again, it appears that it would be ok, as long as it was sanctioned by a woman.

I’m angry at women who, terrified of not being allowed in “the club”, rush to disassociate themselves from their slandered sistren with cries of, “I’m not offended!” or “I’m not like those other women, I can take it.”

Or, perhaps they are simply more fair, or less thin-skinned about certain topics, and don't expect some of the "courtly" treatment some of their sistren believe they are entitled to simply because they have a vagina instead of a penis.  After all, gentlemanly behavior is oppressive, right?

That's what I got from this one-sided article.  It's based on the prejudicial premise that men's behaviors are inherently bad, and that women are the arbiters of right and wrong.  I reject the notion that women hold that authority.  In the same way women refuse to be defined by men, I think men should similarly refuse to be defined by women.  That would seem to be more "equal", and seems to be the way society is heading.

[mod edit]

Rohn's post is probably the most rationally thought out response I have seen in this thread, and your reaction to it is quite abrupt in contrast.

I think it is you whom needs to return to reality.

"The problem with quotes from the Internet is that it's almost impossible to validate their authenticity." - Abraham Lincoln

  Destac

Novice Member

Joined: 7/06/12
Posts: 33

1/25/13 11:59:05 PM#125

This post will be from the perspective of a guy, so I am going to try and explain what we think and if I say anything rude I am not meaning to.

Guys want to feel tough or want to feel superior to the next person it just seems to be our nature we are very competitive. Some will deny it, but we always pick someone that we want to aspire to be and maybe surpass. Now we want to look manly or tough in front of other men if we don't it makes us look weak. Which is why guys rarely cry we think it makes us look weak and are generally laughed at unless we are under extreme physical and sometimes emotional pain.

Brief intro to the explanation ^

So why are guys sexist in games? Well a lot of guys when hanging out with friends will do things like insult girls and many times will hit on girls. Throughout history men have always looked down on women and those who do look tougher and are generally physically stronger than others. So why dont some guys stand up to this? The answer is simple it makes us look weak even in a game we don't want to be the enemy we want to be with the crowd. Also since it is the internet it does not matter if someone curses and threatens you we just curse the guy out that is just what people do.

More Detail Summary Below v

To sum it up guys want to look tough and it is the internet we think you want to curse me out I will do the same to you. The best thing to do is realize on games sexism is a big thing but don't take it to seriously want to annoy his report his account and hope he gets banned.

  techknowmama

Novice Member

Joined: 11/29/09
Posts: 6

1/26/13 12:06:39 AM#126
Originally posted by steamtank

so it's are own fault we get harrassed ? because we chose to make a female character or a female name? so if I make a male character with a manly name I ll be safe right? .... but wait ....what happens when I need to use voice communication to warn my team mates their geting flanked, or when leading a raid ?

wow! just wow!

dont game with people on your team that care if you have a vagina or penis?

 

just a theory

I think you missed the point?

but thats just a theory to

  Yavin_Prime

Novice Member

Joined: 11/08/07
Posts: 233

1/26/13 1:49:17 AM#127

I hate sexism in all of its forms and the people who do it make me sad and angry at the state of humanity. The obvious aspect of this issue is sexism vs women but the problem is much larger and extends into other subcultures as well.

 

I like to play as female characters in MMORPGs and I RP a lot. The thing is that my in game gender doesn't translate over into real life. I play the opposite gender for many reasons but that's a whole other topic. When people find out I'm not female in the real world (I don't lie about it but I used to) they treat me differently and in some cases get real pushy about why I play a different gender. In some cases I get hate and people have called me 'confused' and or gay which is extremely far from the truth as I'm married to a woman in the real world and I have a daughter. 

 

What I think is stupid about all of this is that guys out there are being cruel to people who could be essentially good friends but their narrowmindedness essentially tears the community appart in general. Lets just get this out there for everyone who might be confused: Cruelty in any form is bad and wrong. Guys should be happy that girls play games after all gamers don't get out much so good luck meeting a girl, muchless one that tolerates gaming as a hobby, lots of my friends have wives and girlfriends who hate their hobby. 

 

My point is sexism in all it's forms is wrong and evil and defending it is just as bad as doing it.

  steamtank

Novice Member

Joined: 7/10/09
Posts: 390

1/26/13 2:02:51 AM#128
Originally posted by techknowmama
Originally posted by steamtank

so it's are own fault we get harrassed ? because we chose to make a female character or a female name? so if I make a male character with a manly name I ll be safe right? .... but wait ....what happens when I need to use voice communication to warn my team mates their geting flanked, or when leading a raid ?

wow! just wow!

dont game with people on your team that care if you have a vagina or penis?

 

just a theory

I think you missed the point?

but thats just a theory to

no its exactly the point.

If I am in a guild with a bunch of teenagers, i expect them to act like teenagers.

I dont join a guild and expect them to change because of who I am.

 

Since when raiding I tend to enjoy a family friendly atmosphere because I think it promotes the best raid experience I dont join guilds that harbor many e-peen'ers.

If you are in a guild, and they dont respect you, you are in the wrong guild. They dont HAVE to change, you are choosing to associate with people who don't value you.

 

Im not going to have pity for anyone who subjects themselves to such treatment and then says I am a bad person for not stopping it. This game is their safe place as much as it is yours. MMO's are a beautiful thing, they are so big there is a guild for EVERYONE. but not every guild is for you, nor should it be.

 

You have ignore functions for any ingame chat, and for something above and beyond the realm of sanity you have report features.

 

In a video game you allow yourself to be a victim, its not the real world, you can choose who is around you.

  someforumguy

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/25/07
Posts: 3504

1/26/13 4:00:14 AM#129

With people I like to play games with, I am never bothered about their sexual orientation, political colour, race, belief, age or gender.

This changes however if someone keeps pointing out their gender (to stay on topic, but could also apply to the other mentioned things etc) eventhough no one asked about it or cared about it untill then. That just makes me suspicious about his/her intentions.
  Yavin_Prime

Novice Member

Joined: 11/08/07
Posts: 233

1/26/13 4:13:14 AM#130
Originally posted by Fluxii

[mod edit]

I don't understand why people have to perpetuate the problem by starting an 'us vs them' argument. WTF people, were all humans and we all need each other. You need the grbage person so your house won't be filled with trash just as you need the hair dresser/barber to cut your hair so you don't look like a beast. The bottom line is society needs to evolve a bit, we should be lifting each other up rather than tearing each other down. People should end games saying GG (if it wasn't a good game then let your silence speak for you the lack of words can be just as powerful as words but less distructive).

I get it some guys argue that women dissed them at some point but dissing them back only adds to the problem. I say take the high ground and rather than add to the problem help solve it so your kids won't have to deal with this legacy of inter-human hate.

 

  fiontar

Novice Member

Joined: 4/07/04
Posts: 3711

1/26/13 5:04:17 AM#131

I hate crude, bigoted speech no matter who it is directed at. Most men who exhibit sexist predjudices and behavior towards women are ignorant or have emotional problems that probably exhibit in many other forms of anti-social behavior beyond sexism. We have a word for these people in the gaming community: they are trolls. Most intelligent, fair minded individuals understand the golden rule: Do not feed the trolls!

Why do these discussions tend to get so touchy? Well, part of it has to do with the fact that many such articles are written by people who buy into "victim culture" and are always looking for evidence of their victimization. These people often have a world view that reduces the human race to "people in the same boat as me" and "everyone else out there, who just happen to have as one of their life's missions sinking said boat". This leads to over-generalization, which becomes ironic as steroetypical generalizations are what the self appointed victims are usually all stressed out over.

It's also counterproductive, because the vast majority of people that have been lumped into some broad "victimizing class" are actually nice people who would never want to victimize anyone. When you pre-emprtively attack likely allies out of over-generalized fear, things are just going to go south from there.

IMO, the real issue is anti-social, bigoted and distruptive behavior in the community and how to deal with that small, but vocal minority who embrace their ignorance and lash out at others. This can include the various -"isms", sexism, racism, nationalism, etc..., but these people are often equal opportunity offenders who will attack anyone that attracts their attention in ways they feel are most likely to strike a nerve.

I think the way to address sexism in gaming is to understand that it's very rarely about "men vs. women", but rather "asshat vs. the target of the day". Most gamers can relate when it comes to tales of encounters with the dregs of the community, most of us have stories we can tell of our own encounters with such people. Too often, articles about sexism in gaming not only over-generalize and create a "man vs. woman" dichotomy, but they also invalidate the experiences of others with similar tales to tell, because "it just isn't the same thing".

People are people. Gender is superficial. The mind, spirit and soul transcend the body we happen to have been born into. The broader the pool of those we consider as "Us", the more wide spread our sense of empathy and the healthier our society. "Fellow Human Being" should be the "us" if we wish to be truly civil and just.

It's ok to remind people that sexism does still exist in the community, along with a lot of other negative, anti-social forms of distruptive, disrespecting speech and behavior. The problem is that all too often the discussion devolves into something meant to define, reinforce and justify one's own special little space of self victimization, over generalizing "them" and invalidating other forms of victimization as not being valid in the same way.

Negative response, even if it's from those who bristle over being lumped into a very negative stereotype that is not a fair representation of them as people, just becomes a self fulfilling prophecy of victimization for "speaking out".

We all need to routinely examine our world view, ethics, behaviour and speech to identify and address our biases. Everyone has biases that unfairly pre-judge others based on superficial differences that ignore the fact that we all are human beings. Human beings are complex creatures. We are all a mix of good and bad, but the truly bad are a small minority not exclusive to any superficial divisions you might apply to mankind. Most are mostly good and we can all be better through introspection and effort.

MMOs provide an environment where the gender of the player is irrelavent and often unknown. People can just be people and their representation in the game world can have very little in common with their form in real life. It's also a place where we can report, ignore and forget the words and acts of the dregs who pop up from time to time. Giving them more thought than is needed to report, ignore and forget is just giving them power over you they don't deserve.

MMO communities lend themselves to egalitarianism and divisive, direspecting conduct of any kind should be diffused, disparaged and discouraged. Overt sexism is very rare, in my experience and I also do not believe it's at all a common trait among MMO players.

Maybe we can find a way to address sexism in gaming as just another form of unacceptable behaviour and another tool in the toolbox of trolls? Not ignoring that it occurs, but also not looking at these instances as providing any actual insight on gamers "in general" and with out using them as evidence oft an "us vs. them, men vs. woman" sense of victimization?

To be fair to the author, I think she understands the bigger picture and at least some of her discomfort about writing what she wrote may have been stressing over how to address sexism in gaming with out looking like she was attacking all male gamers or gaming in general. I think she tried to address the issues in as non-inflamitory way as possible, but I think the sense of over generalization and the "us vs. them" message still came through. It's very difficult to write on these subjects. I'm sure just as there will be many interpetations of what she is trying to say, many of which may not be what she was trying to say, there will be some who will read my words an incorrectly interpret what I'm trying to say.

Divisiveness is all about gaining a sense of power and importance by disrupting harmony. We all have to be careful that when we seek to combat acts of divisiveness, we don't create even more division by overgeneralizing and holding swaths of people "guilty by association".

Gaming and gamers are not Sexist by nature or by majority. We should all do what we can to marginalize and eventually eliminate sexist behavior in our gaming communities. It has already been marginalized in most gaming communities. Marginalization requires consensus of the majority to not only recognize certain behaviours as unacceptable, but to actively take a stance against them. Consensus is built through awareness, mutual respect and building on commonality. You can not build consensus with divisive segregation of the community by drawing unfair, overly-generalized lines of distinction.

 

 

Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated

  Dimsum1337

Novice Member

Joined: 8/24/12
Posts: 60

1/26/13 5:06:57 AM#132

Sometimes I regret the fact that video gaming has gone mainstream and has to deal with such scrutiny as video game violence and sexism and in the case of the latest Far Cry the exploitation and portrayal of natives. I just hope the industry doesnt become too politically correct for its own good. My personal opinion is that while I support better and stronger female character portrayal, I dont want to see video gaming become a politicized populist platform for discussion of gender or any other other separating issues because this being the "internetz" and an industry dominated by younger men as a demographic it wont end well.

On the other hand I am all for video games serving as positive inspirational tool through the power of good  stories. I have always admired japanese games and tv shows for carrying across and promoting very positive values, like love, family, friendship, respect while still making it palatable (as a most recent example I can give Persona 4 for dealing with individuality)

 

  jocieB

Novice Member

Joined: 6/16/12
Posts: 76

1/26/13 5:58:54 AM#133
Originally posted by Magnetia

I am fairly certain that some female players know and take advantage of the fact that male players will be nicer to them / give them free stuff / be more willing to help.

Just saying we aren't the only criminals. 

Correct.  I've often accepted gifts from other players but never by revealing my gender (or asking theirs) and it's always repaid with game help or some worthy drop or other.  But I've seen it many, many times - and boasted about by girls.  Women can be and indeed often are their own worst enemy.

On another point, it's almost impossible to call any game content sexist - it's like saying "books are sexist".  It's a fact in some cases - but for as many examples of sexism toward women, you can find the same toward men.  Where next?  Oppressed Evocii writing articles on racism in gaming?

One commenter also mentioned using gaming as a way of having "man time" away from his female partner.  That's fair enough I guess - we all enjoy a little escapism... but the vast majority of men I have become friends with in games are incredibly (in a pleasant way) jealous that my other half and I game together and enjoy it.

I think the vast majority of sexism in gaming exists in the heads of women - and that which doesn't comes from the sort of man whose opinions are worthless to me anyway. 

  WabbaWay

Novice Member

Joined: 3/21/12
Posts: 103

1/26/13 6:07:32 AM#134
Seems kinda silly. Don't get me wrong, i don't approve of sexism at all - but really, tentacle rape card game ain't sexism, come on here. xD Sexism is bad and wrong, but it's not really a problem in gaming circles... Atleast not the circle i'm in.

  AlBQuirky

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 1/24/05
Posts: 3286

Tomorrow's just a future yesterday...

1/26/13 6:14:25 AM#135

I wanted to stay out of this "hot topic", but I had one question that I wished to ask the columnist:

"What do you propose to do about it?" ie: How can it be dealt with?

[EDIT]
I should have read on...


Originally posted by KaylettaJade
That article was way too long. It basically said 'Sexism sucks, there is no good reason for it, and it makes me mad.' And while I agree with that basic premise, if you're going to write an article about sexism in gaming, you really should make better points and offer solutions, suggestions, and maybe even facts.

Where is any pertinent information? Suggestions on how to deal with that kind of behavior, gaming companies policies on harrassment, the correct ways to report it and what kind of documentation you should have, information on state laws concerning online harrassment, the basic psychology behind why it happens, talking points for dealing with someone who doesn't realize how offensive they're being - something more than 'Boo hoo, I'm mad at you mean men'.



Well stated!

- Al

Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
- FARGIN_WAR

  User Deleted
1/26/13 7:43:11 AM#136
Originally posted by ScaryMonk
Originally posted by mymmo
haha. men discussing gender issues...its so funny to behold. 

Why, they are one half of the issue? 

And look at the discussion above and below my first post (edit: and also below this one).  The men that are discussing here are more than half of the issue, most of the guys arguing in this thread are in fact  a big  part of the issue-  without knowing it ofc because they are the just som random nice guys  arguing. And its scary to read because its so common. Its so common to read "my wif is in the kitchen, there is no sexism", "Ivent seen anything around me...there is no sexism", "Im angry because someon donset see the world like me, there is no sexism", "I dont like changes....there is no sexism" and so on. Sexism in the gaming community is a fact (according to those in the business and research papers). And them here are arguing whatever if there is something called sexism in the games or that men also  have issues (why pointing it out in a thread about womens position)? So sad to see, so sad to see that every freaking time. 

Edit: this is a good example of how degrading and sexistic the gaming community is. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=GZAxwsg9J9Q

  Mueslinator

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/08/11
Posts: 78

1/26/13 8:32:17 AM#137

I find this article very biased.

 

For example, the sentence "And by sexism, I mean a tsunami of bile and loathing aimed at women (not only in gaming) in geek circles across the board, mostly for the crime of Existing While Female."

I wonder why this "tsunami of bile and loathing" was only unleashed late last year when #reasonwhy was running up and down the bytes and not, say, 1999. Or 2005. Or anywhen else. Women existed while female as well back then, if memory serves.

 

No, that tsunami does have a reason, and it's not as passive, non-agency as that sentence would make it sound. No, it was because women raised a major shitstorm over the perceived sexism in gaming. Jennifer Hepler? Well, what about Jay Wilson? Oh, it's not sexist because he's a man.

 

Personally, I have NEVER seen a woman treated worse for her being a woman. Not in real life, not in any game. In games specifically, I do not care about your sex. I care about your game. And, yeah, that does mean that sometimes, insults are slung around. It's not pretty. But it's not because you're a woman. It's because some people simply are rude, and the GIFT is reality.

Strangely enough the only people who have ever felt the need to 'distinguish' themselves from a common gamer by mentioning their sex... were women.

 

No, the tsunami was not raised by some unknown power. It was raised by women - because they think something is sexist just because it is aimed at them.

How we raise a stink over how almost every humanoid enemy is male that the player has to kill? How about the fact that almost all evil characters are men? That men are stereotyped as action heroes and more brawn than brain in almost every instance?

Or maybe I should change the genre and medium. How about I raise a stink over all those "How to train your man like a dog" books?

Seems it's only sexist when men do it. Those creeps!

 

So, what do we gain in knowledge when someone calls men creeps? After all: If you call someone a redhead, you know something about that person: He or she has red hair. But what is a creep? If you hear someone called a creep, you do not know anything more about them. You only know more about the person who used the term 'creep'. He or she was creeped out by that person.

And the second it is no longer aimed at the behaviour of one single person but generalized it shows something else: Sexism against men: "I don't like what they do, they make me feel uncomfortable, therefore they are creeps".

 

Let me tell you something: I too am angry. Angry at all those people who desperately try to make an issue out of this perceived sexism against women. To me, it feels like: "Hey, now games are no longer something only for geeks and losers, and we expect them to cater to us!".

You do not create, you just point out what needs to change in your opinion and badger others to do the work. I have said it before and I will say it again: You people, men and women alike, who do not like how the gaming industry works nowadays: Make your own game. Sell it. CREATE instead of just playing the old blame game once again.

You know, I remember a time when women were actively encouraged to do IT classes and jobs in the 1990s. They just didn't want to.

I am so frakking tired of women coming into any male space and claiming it must adhere to their wishes, and crying creep, sexism and whathaveyou if they are not immediately catered to.

 

That is all. Thank you.

  LordZeik

Novice Member

Joined: 2/17/08
Posts: 185

1/26/13 9:01:21 AM#138
People wonder why we can't find healers as often anymore? Women make great healers. If you mistreat them they will stop playing games altogether. Show a little more respect to them.... On to the real topic though. People are victomized everyday. Regardless of race or gender. Having to make a topic about it won't really "solve" anything. With how the current generation is being brought up I don't expect this problem to go away. It's easy to make a list and have people become appauled by whats on it. However, it's impossible to really fix this problem currently. Unless some real cultivating at the earlier stages is done for children don't expect to see any headway in the coming five to ten years. How many parents actually sit their kids down about gender biased anyways?
  Coman

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/29/04
Posts: 1956

1/26/13 9:03:53 AM#139

I would like to see some figures. I am sure more women are being herressed then man, but is it really this big? I find that article like these make it seem like when a women get online they are being herressed instantly. Do people really swear more toward women then to man? Or do those people that insult women would also insult men? 

The problem in my opinion is not Sexism, but the bullying on the internet that goes around. The troll that can get away with things like that. Hate campaign happen to man, women and companies alike when a mob does not like them. Also about Sarkeeian it seems 7000 people suppored her. How many people really where in the "mob" again her? 

I am not denying it might be a problem, but I would love to see more then emotional blogs and presentations that back up the fact that it's focused on women. In all my years of gaming I do not believe I ever met a person against women online or would treat them badly and if they made the sexist joke they would just as well toward the man and often just as sexist. Again not saying because I never withnessed it is not there, but I am simply ignorant regarding this and would love to be informed. It is a problem whatever it's one person or whatever it are 1000 persons. I am just wonding whatever the focus should not be more toward bullying in a whole then sexism.

 

Originally posted by LordZeik
People wonder why we can't find healers as often anymore? Women make great healers. If you mistreat them they will stop playing games altogether. Show a little more respect to them.... On to the real topic though. People are victomized everyday. Regardless of race or gender. Having to make a topic about it won't really "solve" anything. With how the current generation is being brought up I don't expect this problem to go away. It's easy to make a list and have people become appauled by whats on it. However, it's impossible to really fix this problem currently. Unless some real cultivating at the earlier stages is done for children don't expect to see any headway in the coming five to ten years. How many parents actually sit their kids down about gender biased anyways?

Then again you get posts like this.  They just play any class like any other gamer out there and they are often just as good as the man out there in those classes. Why would a parent sit there kid down because of gender biased? I simply got raised without the idea there is something to be biased about. No need to sit me down and talk to me about that. There are plenty of women stronger then me, smarter then me and/or more skillfull then me. I have no problem with that wat so ever.

  TwoThreeFour

Novice Member

Joined: 3/26/12
Posts: 2148

1/26/13 9:08:53 AM#140
Originally posted by Thebozz
Men don't really have a problem with women gaming, creating games, or being geeks.  Men have a problem with women invading their men time.  Every now and then guys like to be crude and vulgar.  They like to belch and talk sports and fart.  Men don't like women invading man time.  Men like to have activities they can do that their women won't want to participate in.  Everytime one of those activities sees more and more women, men react because they fear their women will also join the activity.  They fear losing man time. 

 

Why is it so important for you have "man" time? What is it about women that frightens you? 

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