Crafting will never be "fixed" in MMO's until players and devs understand that not everyone should be a crafter.  It should be a long and difficult process to master.

When everyone and their mother has every craft leveled on multiple alts and everyone is self sufficient, then crafting becomes meaningless.

Originally posted by Alders

Crafting will never be "fixed" in MMO's until players and devs understand that not everyone should be a crafter.  It should be a long and difficult process to master.

When everyone and their mother has every craft leveled on multiple alts and everyone is self sufficient, then crafting becomes meaningless.

Agreed. And, I wish MMO's would make crafters a seperate class.

Originally posted by bigsmiff

Originally posted by Alders

Crafting will never be "fixed" in MMO's until players and devs understand that not everyone should be a crafter.  It should be a long and difficult process to master.

When everyone and their mother has every craft leveled on multiple alts and everyone is self sufficient, then crafting becomes meaningless.

Agreed. And, I wish MMO's would make crafters a seperate class.

That wont work. People will just make alts for crafting .. and complains it takes too much time.

Originally posted by bigsmiff

Originally posted by Alders

Crafting will never be "fixed" in MMO's until players and devs understand that not everyone should be a crafter.  It should be a long and difficult process to master.

When everyone and their mother has every craft leveled on multiple alts and everyone is self sufficient, then crafting becomes meaningless.

Agreed. And, I wish MMO's would make crafters a seperate class.

One MMO did make them seperate classes. Best damn crafting system imo ever.

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by bigsmiff

Originally posted by Alders

Crafting will never be "fixed" in MMO's until players and devs understand that not everyone should be a crafter.  It should be a long and difficult process to master.

When everyone and their mother has every craft leveled on multiple alts and everyone is self sufficient, then crafting becomes meaningless.

Agreed. And, I wish MMO's would make crafters a seperate class.

That wont work. People will just make alts for crafting .. and complains it takes too much time.

That's what I liked about SWG. When you got bored with combat, you logged in your crafter to get a whole different game play style.

I still think a pop up cooking mama style mini game could work and be a lot of fun, assuming anyone felt like doing such a thing. Which they won't i'm sure.

A few games have done a good job in at least offering decent customizability, but yes, I think the actual process of crafting is really bad for the most part.

4 major things that kill crafting in MMORPG's:

1) Most games are loot based now, making crafting items horrible and pointless. No true player based economy with good crafted items.

2) Resources used do not have different grades/quality, thus everyones crafted items are exactly like the next guys/gals.

3) Everyone can be everything now when crafting. You dont rely on others, you can make all subcomponents, final product etc.

4) Decay, lack of item damage/destruction. No repeat cuistomers for crafters. Its good for awhile but once everyone has their items your business doesnt do as well.

In SWG i had 4 active accounts and another i used from time to time. Had 5 crafters and 2 pure merchants out of the 9 characters, then 2 combat toons when i needed a break. An elder jedi from the early days and a BH just because i liked proving tht jedi's were not in god mode ;)

As long as crafting as a system is really useful and you can create various and possibly unique items, I don't need the crafting "action" itself to be fun or complicated. In fact, if it's going to be a time consuming mini game that ends up not being fun, I'd rather it not get in the way at all. Click and done is OK.

With that, I'll agree with the OP in part. Because, yeah, I've never seen the act of crafting implemented in a fun way. I'm mostly in it for the big picture.

Originally posted by bigsmiff

 

I will give you an example of the process of making a set of RIS armor:

1. Master your Armorsmithing

2. Do a quest to be able to learn RIS armor crafting (Awesome quest BTW)

3. Go out and kill Kimogila for their scales(Not a guaranteed drop/you'll need a group)

4. Kill gurk kings for their hides( Not a guaranteed drop)

5. Gather the best resources needed to craft(gather samples/place harvesters)

6. Go get a crafting buff to craft better armor

7. Find the best crafting station available

8. Use factories if you want to speed up the process

9. Craft the armor

I hope I didn't forget anything, it's been a while

 

EDIT: I forgot that you need the woolamander harrower bone and peko peko albatross feather. Peko peko was a random boss that was very tough to kill

That does not sound entertaining. I do not approve.

Originally posted by OgreRaper
I hate crafting in MMO's. My ideal MMO would have a mini-game every time you craft an item. The better you do in it, the higher your chance at creating a higher quality item, or extra items, or you lose no materials, etc.

no, sorry but crafting isnt about freaking mini-games.  I dont need to play a game inside of a game inside of another game to make a freaking item. Its a huge waste of time and effort. We have enough of those types of games and the crafting is the worst.

Crafting, economy, non-combat activities are for some reason the bane of the turds who make these games. Having dumbshit crafting or crafting that happens as you adventure is their way of saying "we know best," in a passive/aggressive manner.

Originally posted by Toxia

Originally posted by bigsmiff

 

I will give you an example of the process of making a set of RIS armor:

1. Master your Armorsmithing

2. Do a quest to be able to learn RIS armor crafting (Awesome quest BTW)

3. Go out and kill Kimogila for their scales(Not a guaranteed drop/you'll need a group)

4. Kill gurk kings for their hides( Not a guaranteed drop)

5. Gather the best resources needed to craft(gather samples/place harvesters)

6. Go get a crafting buff to craft better armor

7. Find the best crafting station available

8. Use factories if you want to speed up the process

9. Craft the armor

I hope I didn't forget anything, it's been a while

 

EDIT: I forgot that you need the woolamander harrower bone and peko peko albatross feather. Peko peko was a random boss that was very tough to kill

That does not sound entertaining. I do not approve.

Most crafters didn't go out and do all that hunting they would advertise that they needed certain resources and then set up a vender that would pay anyone that dropped off the requested material. My main char in SWG was a master scout/rifleman {read sniper} and I spent a lot of time getting materials for crafters. Personally I found the crafting dull. But this system had several advantages. The products the crafters made was really a lot better than looted gear and it wore out with use. The crafters gear was always in demand. But the real key was the interaction between the crafters, suppliers and customers. This interaction was one of the things that build the community in the game. And that community is one of the reasons the SWG vets are so bitter {still}, we miss it.  

SWG was the only MMO I ever enjoyed crafting in. No other MMO comes close; they all feel like appendages to the main combat aspect of the game. They are usually level based and I find I out-level the gear I can make, or am in an area where the raw materials are no longer dropping, forcing me to go back to a lowbie area to face-roll mobs to take resource nodes I need to make gear I don't want, nor can I sell.

Bah... I'm rambling and ranting all at once.

More SWG crafting please.

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by bigsmiff

Originally posted by Alders

Crafting will never be "fixed" in MMO's until players and devs understand that not everyone should be a crafter.  It should be a long and difficult process to master.

When everyone and their mother has every craft leveled on multiple alts and everyone is self sufficient, then crafting becomes meaningless.

Agreed. And, I wish MMO's would make crafters a seperate class.

That wont work. People will just make alts for crafting .. and complains it takes too much time.

Atleast they would keep playing, the alternative is the present, when players feel bored after a short time and quit.

Its the same old story "i played 4 years since vanilla and SUFFERED each day tring to raid, i am much happy now that i have beaten kel'thuzad with a pug" <quits soon after>.

Flame on!

:)

I think I have a good rule of thumb that applies here:

If a simple bot or macro can do it, players shouldn't have to.

Crafting such as in Vanguard is so boring, so repeptitive and so much of a chore that I can't believe what kind of player would actually enjoy it. They had to go into lengths to prevent using macros and bots by switching the places of the buttons etc. and I'd say that is already a strong warning sign.

Originally posted by lostscout5

Originally posted by Toxia

Originally posted by bigsmiff

 

I will give you an example of the process of making a set of RIS armor:

1. Master your Armorsmithing

2. Do a quest to be able to learn RIS armor crafting (Awesome quest BTW)

3. Go out and kill Kimogila for their scales(Not a guaranteed drop/you'll need a group)

4. Kill gurk kings for their hides( Not a guaranteed drop)

5. Gather the best resources needed to craft(gather samples/place harvesters)

6. Go get a crafting buff to craft better armor

7. Find the best crafting station available

8. Use factories if you want to speed up the process

9. Craft the armor

I hope I didn't forget anything, it's been a while

 

EDIT: I forgot that you need the woolamander harrower bone and peko peko albatross feather. Peko peko was a random boss that was very tough to kill

That does not sound entertaining. I do not approve.

Most crafters didn't go out and do all that hunting they would advertise that they needed certain resources and then set up a vender that would pay anyone that dropped off the requested material. My main char in SWG was a master scout/rifleman {read sniper} and I spent a lot of time getting materials for crafters. Personally I found the crafting dull. But this system had several advantages. The products the crafters made was really a lot better than looted gear and it wore out with use. The crafters gear was always in demand. But the real key was the interaction between the crafters, suppliers and customers. This interaction was one of the things that build the community in the game. And that community is one of the reasons the SWG vets are so bitter {still}, we miss it.  

I'm sorry...I didn't mean the crafter did the killing for resources. I forgot to mention that my combat character did it.

Originally posted by Quirhid

I think I have a good rule of thumb that applies here:

If a simple bot or macro can do it, players shouldn't have to.

Crafting such as in Vanguard is so boring, so repeptitive and so much of a chore that I can't believe what kind of player would actually enjoy it. They had to go into lengths to prevent using macros and bots by switching the places of the buttons etc. and I'd say that is already a strong warning sign.

When I asked around here for folks to recommend a great crafting system, they recommended Vanguard's system as being like SWG. I found no enjoyiment at all in it. I don't like any mini game system.

Personally I liked the crafting in EQ2.   I liked the crafting in Vanguard somewhat more.   But the best crafting I have seen in an MMO is Fallen Earth.   Just about everything you pick up can be used in crafting and just about everything you can craft is potentially useful.    And, you can queue a whole bunch of crafting, and then go adventure while it is being finished.