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Loktofeit
 Elite Member
Joined: 1/13/10
EVE in 2013 - DUST 514, CSM8, Fanfest, 10th Anniversary, Uprising, Odyssey. Gonna be a good year :) |
1/25/13 2:23:12 PM#41
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar The biggest difference is that F2P is an actual category. It is a fact. P2W is a made up term and it differs from person to person. The reality of that second part would shatter way too many illusions for some though.
filmoret: One thing I have never figured out is why the game devs hardly ever fix simple problems that arise. It is like they don't care about the pvp community. Nitth: What makes you so sure its a simple fix? filmoret: Because most of them are. Sometimes its just changing a number in a code string other times its creating a few variables. However none of them should take over a few hours of coding. |
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1/25/13 2:24:09 PM#42
My way is vote with my wallet. I will pay for games with a monthly sub that does not have F2P. Any F2P game I play I will never ever spend money on and do nothing but hog up hard drive space and go on their forums and demand more game access. |
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Loktofeit
Elite Member
Joined: 1/13/10
EVE in 2013 - DUST 514, CSM8, Fanfest, 10th Anniversary, Uprising, Odyssey. Gonna be a good year :) |
1/25/13 2:24:22 PM#43
Originally posted by kadepsyson So basically you understood exactly what I meant in my succinct two words, but you chose to harp on it anyway? ;)
filmoret: One thing I have never figured out is why the game devs hardly ever fix simple problems that arise. It is like they don't care about the pvp community. Nitth: What makes you so sure its a simple fix? filmoret: Because most of them are. Sometimes its just changing a number in a code string other times its creating a few variables. However none of them should take over a few hours of coding. |
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1/25/13 2:24:34 PM#44
Originally posted by Bossalinie Plus, it is only fair that those who subsidize the game get a little advantage. If you want to be on a level playing field, you have the same choice as they do to pay up. |
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1/25/13 2:25:47 PM#45
Originally posted by newchemicals Everyone does that. People only play/pay games they find fun. Otherwise, what is the point.
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1/25/13 2:26:50 PM#46
Dear OP, please do not talk in generic terms. Please say which MMOs exactly you have on mind, because recently, most of the F2P conversion I've seen and playtested didn't seem P2W at all. So... what in the seven hells are You talking about ?
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VengeSunsoar
 Elite Member
Joined: 3/10/04
GRIND DOES NOT EXIST. IT IS ENTIRELY YOUR PERCEPTION. |
1/25/13 2:27:08 PM#47
Originally posted by jimdandy26 I didn't say I agree. I said there is a lot of disagreement as to what constitutes pay 2 win. You know, in ancient Egypt. One of the hieroglyphics on the walls of the pyramids actually says 'I am upset as my heir will ruin my kingdom' or something to that affect. This is 5000BC stuff and you know what? Nothing has changed. :P |
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1/25/13 2:27:43 PM#48
Originally posted by nariusseldon Depends on how you term advantage. There is a vast difference between putting bullets in the store that deal 10 more damage than anything that you can get in game and someone getting an xp booster. Everyone will cap out eventually. There is no way to make up for one person just flat doing more damage. One is convience, one is flat buying power. I did battle with ignorance today, and ignorance won. To exercise power costs effort and demands courage. That is why so many fail to assert rights to which they are perfectly entitled - because a right is a kind of power but they are too lazy or too cowardly to exercise it. The virtues which cloak these faults are called patience and forbearance. |
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kadepsyson
 Hard Core Member
Joined: 5/15/06
The doctors say his chances are 50/50...but there's only a 10% chance of that. |
1/25/13 2:28:18 PM#49
Originally posted by Loktofeit Tell me more about how Pay 2 Win is a made up term while Free to Play isn't a made up term :) El Psy Congroo |
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1/25/13 2:28:53 PM#50
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar Which is why you do not listen to morons, and correct them at every opportunity. If you honestly point out the difference to them and they continue to argue then they are either trolling, or stupid and not worth the effort. I did battle with ignorance today, and ignorance won. To exercise power costs effort and demands courage. That is why so many fail to assert rights to which they are perfectly entitled - because a right is a kind of power but they are too lazy or too cowardly to exercise it. The virtues which cloak these faults are called patience and forbearance. |
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1/25/13 2:30:43 PM#51
Originally posted by jimdandy26 taking that one step further with an example
paying for ingame mounts with real cash -- its largely a cosmetic item but some people will debate its saving the player ingame cash from buying the mount, thus labeling the mount p2w EQNext press http://EQ3Wire.com EQ2: Freeport server |
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1/25/13 2:31:32 PM#52
OP, they will probably remain P2W for as long as P2P games remain P2W. Maybe not that long. P2P games might keep the corner on P2W long after sub-free games evolve. There isn't much evolution left in the sub-locked restrictive rent-only paywall system except their cash shops continue to grow.
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1/25/13 2:31:33 PM#53
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar I hate Wikipedia...they left Nexus: Kingdom of the Winds off that list and that was the first major success in the F2P field, came out in 1996 also. That game created the monster that is Nexon today...1.2 billion in profits two years straight and only EA is a larger gaming company. “I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson |
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1/25/13 2:32:08 PM#54
Originally posted by jimdandy26 And obviously each game has a different definition of what advantage means ... dependent on the combat mechanics. But even with your example ... how about if it takes 10 years to cap out? So if someone pays, he gets to do more damage for 10 years ... surely it is only temporary ... but for a long long time. Does that count? It is all grey. There is no black and white line. And it is up to the individual to judge if a certain thing being sold in cash shop is reasonable or not.
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1/25/13 2:32:48 PM#55
Originally posted by jtcgs Yeah, people must have hated that game. Stupid F2P. No one really likes those games or the payment model. <that was sarcasm> |
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kadepsyson
Hard Core Member
Joined: 5/15/06
The doctors say his chances are 50/50...but there's only a 10% chance of that. |
1/25/13 2:34:34 PM#56
Originally posted by Nadia More preferable to me would be a system where a player could by a cosmetic mount look. They would need to have earned the base mount through actual gameplay already - the purchasable cosmetic would only alter how it looked - not its stats such as speed, nor would it get the mount to a player sooner. El Psy Congroo |
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Loktofeit
Elite Member
Joined: 1/13/10
EVE in 2013 - DUST 514, CSM8, Fanfest, 10th Anniversary, Uprising, Odyssey. Gonna be a good year :) |
1/25/13 2:35:01 PM#57
Originally posted by jtcgs Never knew that. I have to check that out and see what the game was all about. Thanks for the info. filmoret: One thing I have never figured out is why the game devs hardly ever fix simple problems that arise. It is like they don't care about the pvp community. Nitth: What makes you so sure its a simple fix? filmoret: Because most of them are. Sometimes its just changing a number in a code string other times its creating a few variables. However none of them should take over a few hours of coding. |
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1/25/13 2:35:47 PM#58
At the outset I must acknowledge that I have not read every reply, so, if I repeat any thing previously stated, just say so.
F2P games do not descend from the heavens and install themselves on a computer. F2P games are not the result of quantum mechanics causing the game to spontaneously exist. Real people make these games. They have to be paid. Servers have to be used to allow people to play. They are not free. I can use more examples, but you understand the gist of what I am saying.
F2P =/= P2W. The fact that people pay for things in a F2P game is what causes the game to remain open. They have to make money some way.
As a personal opinion, and not a dig at the OP, the original post seems to be from someone who enjoys F2P games (as do many people) but cannot afford to buy things from the in-game store, which causes impecunious people (look it up) to "fall behind" other players. In summary, some people have extra money to spend on games; some don't. Hedonismbot: Your latest performance was as delectable as dipping my bottom over and over into a bath of the silkiest oils and creams. |
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Loktofeit
Elite Member
Joined: 1/13/10
EVE in 2013 - DUST 514, CSM8, Fanfest, 10th Anniversary, Uprising, Odyssey. Gonna be a good year :) |
1/25/13 2:36:52 PM#59
Originally posted by kadepsyson Free to PLay is an actual industry acknowledged payment model. P2W and B2W and terms that players have created to describe games but they are not actual categories. I'm sure you knew this, so I'm wondering why so much antagonism from you today. filmoret: One thing I have never figured out is why the game devs hardly ever fix simple problems that arise. It is like they don't care about the pvp community. Nitth: What makes you so sure its a simple fix? filmoret: Because most of them are. Sometimes its just changing a number in a code string other times its creating a few variables. However none of them should take over a few hours of coding. |
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1/25/13 2:41:59 PM#60
Originally posted by Nadia No, because cash is virtually never p2w. Its not something that you can't get in game as it is.
Originally posted by nariusseldon The only game that takes that long to cap out that I am aware of is EvE, and no that would be very much p2w because there is no way in game of speeding up skill aquasition.
The "line" between whats p2w and not is "is this available in game". Nothing else. Even an xp booster (especially in a level based game) will allow someone to get there quicker, but by week 2, 3, everyone has normalized.
I did battle with ignorance today, and ignorance won. To exercise power costs effort and demands courage. That is why so many fail to assert rights to which they are perfectly entitled - because a right is a kind of power but they are too lazy or too cowardly to exercise it. The virtues which cloak these faults are called patience and forbearance. |
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