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Elder Scrolls Online

Elder Scrolls Online 

General Discussion  » Race/Faction Seperation will ruin the game for me...

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86 posts found
  Istavaan

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/25/12
Posts: 1398

1/23/13 3:20:59 PM#41
Originally posted by AdamChattaway
Originally posted by SQTO
I like race and faction seperation in pvp games because it develops more faction pride. 

And if we pick our faction and fight in pvp why is that not enough? why does our race mean anything? race gives you faction pride? no faction gives you faction pride.

factions are fighting over the crown to control cyrodill thats the story, you don't have to like it im just telling you how it is.

  Fearum

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/15/11
Posts: 1092

1/23/13 3:35:00 PM#42
Originally posted by Halohead

Let's think about the general atmosphere of previous Elder Scroll games, and then try to apply it to ES:O's methodology on racially locked PvP.

If Morrowind were like ES:O, if you picked any race besides Dunmer in character creation every NPC would try to kill you.

If Skyrim were like ES:O, if you picked any Elven race, every Nord NPC would try to kill you.

What we can learn from this is that yes, many races dislike eachother. But this prejudice and xenophobia has never sparked all-out racial warefare or kill-on-sight mentality.

Think back on the old Elder Scrolls games you played, what were they about? Different races killing eachother all over the place? No. Skyrim had a faction war, but it was between Nords and you could choose which side to join regardless of what your race was. And even if you were a Nord that killed an Elf in Ulfric Stormcloak's Elf-Hating City of Windhelm, you'd still get arrested for it.

Basically what I'm saying is that the core essence of the Elder Scrolls was never about race wars, it was about exploring the world and crawling through dungeons. I don't see why the developers have to make this a Tamriel of Warcraft just because they're making it into an MMO.

Your generalization is full of shit for one thing this game is set at a time when the whole world is in conflict and at war for the throne. All those other games your just locked into one area of the game and jog around within invisable borders doing quests by yourself.

The main argument against faction locks is you want to play with little billy who likes cats and you like orcs, but you can't now and both of you are too stuborn to meet in the middle so you will lose your life long friend.

  FelixMajor

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/27/07
Posts: 563

1/23/13 5:47:28 PM#43
Originally posted by AdamChattaway

I was so looking forward to an Elder scrolls mmo since i played morowind, i always hopped for a coop/mmo of tes, but after seeing that the races are split up seriously depressed me.

Actually, if you watched the last conversation MMORPG had with Paul Sage, and he was asked if the races being sided to certain factions would mean that those races could not be part of those factions, Paul put an evil grin on his face and said he could not answer that at this time.

 

[mod edit]

Originally posted by Arskaaa
"when players learned tacticks in dungeon/raids, its bread".

  Chattaway

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/14/10
Posts: 141

 
OP  1/23/13 5:55:15 PM#44
Originally posted by FelixMajor
Originally posted by AdamChattaway

I was so looking forward to an Elder scrolls mmo since i played morowind, i always hopped for a coop/mmo of tes, but after seeing that the races are split up seriously depressed me.

Actually, if you watched the last conversation MMORPG had with Paul Sage, and he was asked if the races being sided to certain factions would mean that those races could not be part of those factions, Paul put an evil grin on his face and said he could not answer that at this time.

 

[mod edit]

[mod edit] we ARE split up, WE are in our own zones. they SAID we must play 3 chars to see all the game zones, as each char can only see 33% ish of each factions zones.

  Istavaan

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/25/12
Posts: 1398

1/23/13 6:02:29 PM#45
Originally posted by AdamChattaway
Originally posted by FelixMajor
Originally posted by AdamChattaway

I was so looking forward to an Elder scrolls mmo since i played morowind, i always hopped for a coop/mmo of tes, but after seeing that the races are split up seriously depressed me.

Actually, if you watched the last conversation MMORPG had with Paul Sage, and he was asked if the races being sided to certain factions would mean that those races could not be part of those factions, Paul put an evil grin on his face and said he could not answer that at this time.

 

[mod edit]

[mod edit] we ARE split up, WE are in our own zones. they SAID we must play 3 chars to see all the game zones, as each char can only see 33% ish of each factions zones.

where did they say all faction zones are locked, if i recall they said the earlier zones are locked and it opens up as you progress through the game. whats to say there aren't any border zones that are neutral?

  FelixMajor

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/27/07
Posts: 563

1/23/13 6:05:50 PM#46
Hmm, maybe you should watch the conversation again, if you haven't already...but before you do that...take some valuum, or sit in a dark room with a candel, or take a walk...or something

Originally posted by Arskaaa
"when players learned tacticks in dungeon/raids, its bread".

  sapphen

Novice Member

Joined: 1/06/07
Posts: 920

1/23/13 6:10:09 PM#47
Personally I think he was upset that the topic was brought up rather than 'hiding' something.  They don't want to talk about faction separation because of all the bad publicity the topic is getting.  I don't think they have any plans to change it but he didn't want to answer it negatively so he accidental spewed out "we'll see".
  Leucent

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/24/04
Posts: 2452

1/23/13 6:12:17 PM#48
Originally posted by AdamChattaway
Hello, yes 3 races per faction, they are split up and quest in their own areas. Go to their main website and watch the introduction video and view a map of TESO on google, you will see the seperation, the only place we will all meet is in the middle for pvp.

And?

  Leucent

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/24/04
Posts: 2452

1/23/13 6:13:58 PM#49
Originally posted by AdamChattaway
Originally posted by FelixMajor
Originally posted by AdamChattaway

I was so looking forward to an Elder scrolls mmo since i played morowind, i always hopped for a coop/mmo of tes, but after seeing that the races are split up seriously depressed me.

Actually, if you watched the last conversation MMORPG had with Paul Sage, and he was asked if the races being sided to certain factions would mean that those races could not be part of those factions, Paul put an evil grin on his face and said he could not answer that at this time.

 

[mod edit]

[mod edit] we ARE split up, WE are in our own zones. they SAID we must play 3 chars to see all the game zones, as each char can only see 33% ish of each factions zones.

This system worked great in DAOC. [mod edit]

  jtcgs

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/28/04
Posts: 1843

1/23/13 6:24:21 PM#50
Originally posted by Metanol

I actually like this thing!

-IF- we are at war, I don't want to be able to freely walk into my enemies cities. That would be horribly immersion breaking. I do however believe that we should be given the freedom to go -anywhere- we can, as long as we play it smart and survive. Even into the deepest enemy territory.

 You clearly know nothing about TES. The races have been mixed, they have been living all across the world and the very idea of taking TES and forcing old outdated used up trashy MMORPG steriotypes is crazy.

And NO, DaoC is NOT the end all be all game to mimmick...the game wasnt even that popular.

DaoC, top population, 350k'ish placing it right near SWG that had OPEN WORLD PvP with factions and races mixed and you could only not enter an enemy city IF you were flagged with your faction.

Guild Wars, top population, 6 million'ish, heavily instanced, no faction/race limits.

If anything, the genre has shown that DaoC did a LOT wrong...its not like your character has a tattoo on his face telling everyone whos side they are on...just take off the dang uniform and you look like everyone else...well, and you would be naked but oh well.

“I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson

  Chattaway

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/14/10
Posts: 141

 
OP  1/23/13 6:24:25 PM#51
Originally posted by Leucent
Originally posted by AdamChattaway
Hello, yes 3 races per faction, they are split up and quest in their own areas. Go to their main website and watch the introduction video and view a map of TESO on google, you will see the seperation, the only place we will all meet is in the middle for pvp.

And?

that was a reply to someones questiong... fuck sakes lol failed torll.

  Chattaway

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/14/10
Posts: 141

 
OP  1/23/13 6:26:15 PM#52
Originally posted by Istavaan
Originally posted by AdamChattaway
Originally posted by FelixMajor
Originally posted by AdamChattaway

I was so looking forward to an Elder scrolls mmo since i played morowind, i always hopped for a coop/mmo of tes, but after seeing that the races are split up seriously depressed me.

Actually, if you watched the last conversation MMORPG had with Paul Sage, and he was asked if the races being sided to certain factions would mean that those races could not be part of those factions, Paul put an evil grin on his face and said he could not answer that at this time.

 

[mod edit]

[mod edit] we ARE split up, WE are in our own zones. they SAID we must play 3 chars to see all the game zones, as each char can only see 33% ish of each factions zones.

where did they say all faction zones are locked, if i recall they said the earlier zones are locked and it opens up as you progress through the game. whats to say there aren't any border zones that are neutral?

" you must create 3 chars to see all 3 areas of each factions zones " this general im my mind means you must have 3 chars to see all 3 zones... there is a pvp zone in the middle for pvp thats why we cant go to other peoples areas.

  Leucent

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/24/04
Posts: 2452

1/23/13 6:28:23 PM#53
Originally posted by AdamChattaway
Originally posted by Leucent
Originally posted by AdamChattaway
Hello, yes 3 races per faction, they are split up and quest in their own areas. Go to their main website and watch the introduction video and view a map of TESO on google, you will see the seperation, the only place we will all meet is in the middle for pvp.

And?

that was a reply to someones questiong... fuck sakes lol failed torll.

What else can I say, lol, hyper kid, cut out the sugar.

  Sideras

Novice Member

Joined: 2/13/04
Posts: 236

1/23/13 6:39:19 PM#54

The faction system is great and I've been hoping for a game with 3 factions that are all different, different lands, different races etc. It goes a long way towards building that faction pride wich will make the RvR that much better.

This is not The Elder Scrolls, it's more of a spin-off. Personally I love what they are doing I just hope everything works out in the end. And they aren't ruining anything the game is set 1000 years before the events of Skyrim and they aren't chaning anything in the Bethesda games.

So basically win/win for everyone. I absolutely hated the idea of multiplayer in TES but this is a seperate franschie, TES will thankfully remain a singleplayer game. Bottom line stop thinking of this as a TES game and think of it as an MMO pure and simple.

  Sideras

Novice Member

Joined: 2/13/04
Posts: 236

1/23/13 6:46:52 PM#55
Originally posted by sapphen
Originally posted by jimdandy26
Either of you think that the game may just not be for you? And that it does not preclude it being great for others?

Hell I wish the developers asked themselves this question before they decided to convert an outstanding IP to their vision of DAoC2.

They are not converting anything, it's a damned spin-off. I'm sure they played with the idea of having an MMO exactly like the singleplayer games and I'm sure they found out it would be a mess. Now you play with that idea and see how it will hold up.

  sapphen

Novice Member

Joined: 1/06/07
Posts: 920

1/23/13 7:04:41 PM#56
Originally posted by Sideras
Originally posted by sapphen
Originally posted by jimdandy26
Either of you think that the game may just not be for you? And that it does not preclude it being great for others?

Hell I wish the developers asked themselves this question before they decided to convert an outstanding IP to their vision of DAoC2.

They are not converting anything, it's a damned spin-off. I'm sure they played with the idea of having an MMO exactly like the singleplayer games and I'm sure they found out it would be a mess. Now you play with that idea and see how it will hold up.

You're a fool to think that a group of AAA designers could not figure out how to make ESO more like a TES game.  They had DAoC on the brain and wanted to replicate a faction system similar to it.  The war did not have to be racial.  I seen this post in another thread and would like to share it;

Daggerfall Convent
Lead by a Breton Merchant Lord. He is supported by other Bretons and hired an army of Redguards. The Redguards have also taken Orc slaves and commonly uses them to fight or work as blacksmiths.

Ebonheart Pact
Lead by a nord High King. He is allied with a group of dark elves (the King has a Dunmer counciler at his side) but his kingdom is in fragments. A group of Argonians split apart from the rest of them people seeking freedom joins the king with hopes to gain his favor.

Aldmeri Dominion
Lead by a High Elf Queen who formed an alliance with a group of Wood Elves. Many Khajiit also serve the queen for her help in restoring order but there is still a large number of Khajiit who resist her rule and only fight for themselves.  Many Aldmeri resent the Queen for aligning with the Bosmer and still wage war against their wood elf kin.

In the above revisions the same races make up most of the faction but it does not limit them.  In this era it was rare that entire races got along with themselves, must less 2 other factions.  Lorewise the race restricted factions doesn't even make sense.

If you approach every idea you hear as impossible or not working then you lack important problem solving skills.  Next time you have a concern take the snarky out and we can be more civil.

  Maelwydd

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/26/09
Posts: 1169

1/23/13 7:52:10 PM#57

TES games have always had factions/guilds you could join. You were not simply a member when you started to play the game, you had to work at it. I have no idea why they cgose to race lock the factions and predetermine your alliegence without choice.

I mean, it would have made a hell of a lot more sense to have the alliances have recruitment drives and a questline to join a faction. In fact, if there was imbalance it could have been the perfect vehicle for making the balancing act part of the game. An alliance low on numbers could offer rewards for joining up where those already with lots of members would just carry on as normal.

It would also have freed up all regions for all characters at the start. It would have ment they could have spread the quests around rather then have 3 seperate questing locations effectivly reducing the number of quests any 1 character could do by 1/3. It would mean any race could join any faction and so you wouldn't automatically know that Orc over there was an enemy, you would have to play smart, use intelligence gathering to spy enemy camps, track movements and all sorts of logistical stuff to assist in the war effort.

I just really struggle to get why they went this way and I can still only think that, because of who is designing it they sort of had a block on cinsidering any alternative way and certainly not thinking "this is a TES game, how would it have been done in a TES game...Skyrim did it. You start the game, learn about the war, choose a side (Or not) and then fight for your chosen faction.

While I do respect the work done by these guys in the past it just seems to be lazy in the extreme and lacking any sort of imaginative and constructive idea how to merge the established gameplay of the TES games so far with what they wanted to achieve.

I feel like a parrot repeating it over and over but there really is no reason to race lock factions. There are actually more lore fillting, easier solutions. These solutions would also add more depth and to be honest, would have made the design process easier...if only someone had sat down and said "OK DAOC is a good template but lets find  a way to make the desired goal without losing sight of the fact this is a TES game".

 

 

  Fearum

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/15/11
Posts: 1092

1/23/13 7:55:43 PM#58
Originally posted by AdamChattaway
Originally posted by Istavaan
Originally posted by AdamChattaway
Originally posted by FelixMajor
Originally posted by AdamChattaway

I was so looking forward to an Elder scrolls mmo since i played morowind, i always hopped for a coop/mmo of tes, but after seeing that the races are split up seriously depressed me.

Actually, if you watched the last conversation MMORPG had with Paul Sage, and he was asked if the races being sided to certain factions would mean that those races could not be part of those factions, Paul put an evil grin on his face and said he could not answer that at this time.

 

[mod edit]

[mod edit] we ARE split up, WE are in our own zones. they SAID we must play 3 chars to see all the game zones, as each char can only see 33% ish of each factions zones.

where did they say all faction zones are locked, if i recall they said the earlier zones are locked and it opens up as you progress through the game. whats to say there aren't any border zones that are neutral?

" you must create 3 chars to see all 3 areas of each factions zones " this general im my mind means you must have 3 chars to see all 3 zones... there is a pvp zone in the middle for pvp thats why we cant go to other peoples areas.

 And how is that a bad thing?

  sapphen

Novice Member

Joined: 1/06/07
Posts: 920

1/23/13 8:01:16 PM#59
Originally posted by Fearum
Originally posted by AdamChattaway

" you must create 3 chars to see all 3 areas of each factions zones " this general im my mind means you must have 3 chars to see all 3 zones... there is a pvp zone in the middle for pvp thats why we cant go to other peoples areas.

 And how is that a bad thing?

Sounds counter-productive to me.  They say they want to encourage faction pride yet force us to create alts in other factions in order to see the entire world.

Second... it's always a 'bad thing' to limit players in unnecessary ways.
  Fearum

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/15/11
Posts: 1092

1/23/13 8:01:44 PM#60
Originally posted by sapphen
Originally posted by Sideras
Originally posted by sapphen
Originally posted by jimdandy26
Either of you think that the game may just not be for you? And that it does not preclude it being great for others?

Hell I wish the developers asked themselves this question before they decided to convert an outstanding IP to their vision of DAoC2.

They are not converting anything, it's a damned spin-off. I'm sure they played with the idea of having an MMO exactly like the singleplayer games and I'm sure they found out it would be a mess. Now you play with that idea and see how it will hold up.

You're a fool to think that a group of AAA designers could not figure out how to make ESO more like a TES game.  They had DAoC on the brain and wanted to replicate a faction system similar to it.  The war did not have to be racial.  I seen this post in another thread and would like to share it;

Daggerfall Convent
Lead by a Breton Merchant Lord. He is supported by other Bretons and hired an army of Redguards. The Redguards have also taken Orc slaves and commonly uses them to fight or work as blacksmiths.

Ebonheart Pact
Lead by a nord High King. He is allied with a group of dark elves (the King has a Dunmer counciler at his side) but his kingdom is in fragments. A group of Argonians split apart from the rest of them people seeking freedom joins the king with hopes to gain his favor.

Aldmeri Dominion
Lead by a High Elf Queen who formed an alliance with a group of Wood Elves. Many Khajiit also serve the queen for her help in restoring order but there is still a large number of Khajiit who resist her rule and only fight for themselves.  Many Aldmeri resent the Queen for aligning with the Bosmer and still wage war against their wood elf kin.

In the above revisions the same races make up most of the faction but it does not limit them.  In this era it was rare that entire races got along with themselves, must less 2 other factions.  Lorewise the race restricted factions doesn't even make sense.

If you approach every idea you hear as impossible or not working then you lack important problem solving skills.  Next time you have a concern take the snarky out and we can be more civil.

 You will have better luck recruiting people for you faction lock haters club back over at the temp bethesda forums. Most people here understand that it adds to the game and replayablity.

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