Originally posted by Yamota

Originally posted by MMOExposed

Originally posted by Yamota

I think even one of the mmorpg staff, who had test-played the game, said it was a ThemePark so I think it is pretty much a sure thing that it is. And an Elder Scrolls game, which are traditionally open ended sandboxy RPGs, contrary to linear story based one's like Dragon Age, being created as a ThemePark deserves to be hated.

It is like taking a piss on your fanbase and creating something completely else.

 

there was never anything sandbox in a MMO kind of way about elder scrolls games. Sandbox for single player games are define by their open world design. Look it up. Nothing to do with player made content. All MMO have open worlds. Adding multiplayer to skyrim or oblivion and you get the same gameplay found in any themepark mmo. There is nothing unique about the elder scrolls gameplay thatsnot found in a themepark

Nonsense. Themepark MMOs do not have open world design, they are clearly designed to funnel you from quest hub to quest hub, level bracketted zone to level bracketted zone and your character is carefully designed to be able to fight the content for that particular level bracket.

Skyrim was not designed like that. There was a story line that you could follow but you could also go out completely on your own and enjoy the game because the world was designed so that you could do that and still enjoy the game. ThemePark games, altough you could do it that way, are not designed as such.

And sandbox MMOs are also not defined by player made content but rather by open world design. However since they are MMOs, player made content is one of the elements typically associated with sandbox MMOs. However a ThemePark could also have it, just look at the STO foundry system, so it is not direcly related to sandbox MMOs.

What sandbox mmo's have you played? the only true sandbox i have played was swg and most people hated it because it wasn't like everquest. Developers can't win, if the move away from the mmo formula people complain that its missing features and if it sticks to the formula it's a shallow themepark wow clone.

Originally posted by Aerowyn

Originally posted by Yamota

Originally posted by Aerowyn

Originally posted by Istavaan

Originally posted by Yamota

I think even one of the mmorpg staff, who had test-played the game, said it was a ThemePark so I think it is pretty much a sure thing that it is. And an Elder Scrolls game, which are traditionally open ended sandboxy RPGs, contrary to linear story based one's like Dragon Age, being created as a ThemePark deserves to be hated.

It is like taking a piss on your fanbase and creating something completely else.

just like how warcraft was an rts and they made it a mmorpg, is that not pissing on your fanbase? You've no idea what this game will be like yet you are hating it already, see it for yourself before you start throwing tantrums.

very much agreed.. the blind hatred over themeparks on these forums is just sad... from all i have read sounds like they have some solid ideas so hopefully it will pan out

It is not blind. Most of us labeled ThemePark haters have played the original sandbox MMOs and all the generic ThemePark MMOs and found them lacking.

I have personally played WoW, AoC, WAR, Aion, TERA and GW 2 and all of them have had the same flaws. Linear, simplistic and lack of living, breathing virtual world and instead artifical level bracketted zones which you follow in linear fashion from lvl 1 to cap.

So the hate is not blind, it is based on extensive experience.

you have not played ESO, we still don't know a lot about what the final product will actually be and you say to hate it because it's a themepark.. yea id' call that blind hatred towards themeparks... just because you haven't found one fun for you doesn't mean it won't happen.. you never know. I'd rather keep an open mind than just hate for the sake of hating on something...

butting in here. Dislike of the for themepark mmos has developed of the past 4 years or so, and for good reason.

At the same time, I'm a gamer, and love good games and systems. I wont know until I feel it, but the TESO combat and itemization systems seem like a welcome addition to the themepark sub genre. For this I will be giving it ago. It will have to be damn good in order to have staying power though.

I don't care what people say on this site (includes me to others), I'll keep my eye on things, that seem to be interesting to me. I think the hate wagon really starts after the game is released - see AoC, SWTOR, TSW and so on, some of them earn it, some don't.

Also I have to say your WoW example is pretty pitiful, and I'm actually waiting for TES:O with a beta app in.

Originally posted by Aerowyn

Originally posted by Yamota

Originally posted by Aerowyn

Originally posted by Istavaan

Originally posted by Yamota

I think even one of the mmorpg staff, who had test-played the game, said it was a ThemePark so I think it is pretty much a sure thing that it is. And an Elder Scrolls game, which are traditionally open ended sandboxy RPGs, contrary to linear story based one's like Dragon Age, being created as a ThemePark deserves to be hated.

It is like taking a piss on your fanbase and creating something completely else.

just like how warcraft was an rts and they made it a mmorpg, is that not pissing on your fanbase? You've no idea what this game will be like yet you are hating it already, see it for yourself before you start throwing tantrums.

very much agreed.. the blind hatred over themeparks on these forums is just sad... from all i have read sounds like they have some solid ideas so hopefully it will pan out

It is not blind. Most of us labeled ThemePark haters have played the original sandbox MMOs and all the generic ThemePark MMOs and found them lacking.

I have personally played WoW, AoC, WAR, Aion, TERA and GW 2 and all of them have had the same flaws. Linear, simplistic and lack of living, breathing virtual world and instead artifical level bracketted zones which you follow in linear fashion from lvl 1 to cap.

So the hate is not blind, it is based on extensive experience.

you have not played ESO, we still don't know a lot about what the final product will actually be and you say to hate it because it's a themepark.. yea id' call that blind hatred towards themeparks... just because you haven't found one fun for you doesn't mean it won't happen.. you never know. I'd rather keep an open mind than just hate for the sake of hating on something...

You can call it swiss cheese if you want, does not make it so. I dont hate ThemeParks because I like hating, that makes no sense at all. I hate it because I have seen how it reduces a virtual world massively multiplayer experience, the original idea, to a single/limited multiplayer type of game which is has no virtual world feeling at all and tries to separate the playerbase into instances, brackets and PvP zones, rather than bring them together.

It cheapens the experience for a quick thrill and that is why I have grown to hate it and specially a game like Skyrim, which follows the open world, non linear, sandbox philosophy is reduced to yet another ThemePark. And I dont need to wait for the release to assume that because all signs are pointing to it, even an MMORPG staff who said the game is a ThemePark.

I don't get where all the hate is coming from. I think the game looks good. I've been playing MMO's since the first week UO was launched and have played many different once ever since. The two I played the longest were UO and DAoC.

From what I can tell, this game looks like it's going to be a mix of DAoC with a splash of WoW/RIFT/LOTRO thrown in. I don't have an issue with that. Give us some decent PVE with a good 3 faction PVP... sounds awesome!

My complaints with ESO are over fairly basic issues.  The butchering of the background lore of the world to easily fit the three faction system.  The combat animations that don't have much weight, ie, the huge sword hit that elicits no reaction from your foe.

Otherwise, it may be quite well done, but I don't think anyone really knows.  Certain 'true believers' will be unhappy since they want one very narrow type of game play.   But ESO is going to be a DAoC clone.  What I find amusing is that for years I have heard folks complain about the lack of a DAoC type game, one that supposedly had the best RvR pvp.  Here it is.

I suspect that one advantage to Bethesda of this ESO mmo, is the advantage of a ton of art assets that can be scavenged for use in upcoming new TES games.

Originally posted by bcbully

Originally posted by Aerowyn

Originally posted by Yamota

Originally posted by Aerowyn

Originally posted by Istavaan

Originally posted by Yamota

I think even one of the mmorpg staff, who had test-played the game, said it was a ThemePark so I think it is pretty much a sure thing that it is. And an Elder Scrolls game, which are traditionally open ended sandboxy RPGs, contrary to linear story based one's like Dragon Age, being created as a ThemePark deserves to be hated.

It is like taking a piss on your fanbase and creating something completely else.

just like how warcraft was an rts and they made it a mmorpg, is that not pissing on your fanbase? You've no idea what this game will be like yet you are hating it already, see it for yourself before you start throwing tantrums.

very much agreed.. the blind hatred over themeparks on these forums is just sad... from all i have read sounds like they have some solid ideas so hopefully it will pan out

It is not blind. Most of us labeled ThemePark haters have played the original sandbox MMOs and all the generic ThemePark MMOs and found them lacking.

I have personally played WoW, AoC, WAR, Aion, TERA and GW 2 and all of them have had the same flaws. Linear, simplistic and lack of living, breathing virtual world and instead artifical level bracketted zones which you follow in linear fashion from lvl 1 to cap.

So the hate is not blind, it is based on extensive experience.

you have not played ESO, we still don't know a lot about what the final product will actually be and you say to hate it because it's a themepark.. yea id' call that blind hatred towards themeparks... just because you haven't found one fun for you doesn't mean it won't happen.. you never know. I'd rather keep an open mind than just hate for the sake of hating on something...

butting in here. Dislike of the for themepark mmos has developed of the past 4 years or so, and for good reason.

 

At the same time, I'm a gamer, and love good games and systems. I wont know until I feel it, but the TESO combat and itemization systems seem like a welcome addition to the themepark sub genre. For this I will be giving it ago. It will have to be damn good in order to have staying power imo.

No game has staying power in this demanding day and age, that's a fact. people get bored faster these days. even if your perfect sandbox comes out people will get bored of it and move on.

Originally posted by bcbully

you have not played ESO, we still don't know a lot about what the final product will actually be and you say to hate it because it's a themepark.. yea id' call that blind hatred towards themeparks... just because you haven't found one fun for you doesn't mean it won't happen.. you never know. I'd rather keep an open mind than just hate for the sake of hating on something...

butting in here. Dislike of the for themepark mmos has developed of the past 4 years or so, and for good reason.

 

At the same time, I'm a gamer, and love good games and systems. I wont know until I feel it, but the TESO combat and itemization systems seem like a welcome addition to the themepark sub genre. For this I will be giving it ago. It will have to be damn good in order to have staying power though.

which makes sense to me you go in with a cautious but open mind but to just outright hate it because it's a themepark sounds like blind hatred to me... i as well enjoy games and as much as I hate military shooters in general I played Spec ops The Line and LOVED the game(mostly just for it's story) but again if i just skipped on it because i know I hate military shooters I would of missed out on a great game.

Originally posted by MMOExposed

Originally posted by Yamota

I think even one of the mmorpg staff, who had test-played the game, said it was a ThemePark so I think it is pretty much a sure thing that it is. And an Elder Scrolls game, which are traditionally open ended sandboxy RPGs, contrary to linear story based one's like Dragon Age, being created as a ThemePark deserves to be hated.

It is like taking a piss on your fanbase and creating something completely else.

 

there was never anything sandbox in a MMO kind of way about elder scrolls games. Sandbox for single player games are define by their open world design. Look it up. Nothing to do with player made content. All MMO have open worlds. Adding multiplayer to skyrim or oblivion and you get the same gameplay found in any themepark mmo. There is nothing unique about the elder scrolls gameplay thatsnot found in a themepark

this here is so true but these jaded people on this site that hate on every single new game not even released because it doesnt have open world pvp or some fake screwed up view of what a sandbox really is need to go seriously. I can understand some of the hate on games that been out awhile and made promises not kept of if someone just doesnt like the game in general but man the hate since Day 1 on this title has been way worse than both GW2 and SWTOR and its not even out yet or close to being released.

If people hate the game so much thats fine it hasnt cost a dime yet so why post about how bad its going to be? The hilarious thing though here is about 90% of the haters here you will see at the end of this year playing it and talking smack im sure yet they still contribute to the huge super problem of their own most hated game design....

Originally posted by Istavaan

Originally posted by Yamota

Originally posted by MMOExposed

Originally posted by Yamota

I think even one of the mmorpg staff, who had test-played the game, said it was a ThemePark so I think it is pretty much a sure thing that it is. And an Elder Scrolls game, which are traditionally open ended sandboxy RPGs, contrary to linear story based one's like Dragon Age, being created as a ThemePark deserves to be hated.

It is like taking a piss on your fanbase and creating something completely else.

 

there was never anything sandbox in a MMO kind of way about elder scrolls games. Sandbox for single player games are define by their open world design. Look it up. Nothing to do with player made content. All MMO have open worlds. Adding multiplayer to skyrim or oblivion and you get the same gameplay found in any themepark mmo. There is nothing unique about the elder scrolls gameplay thatsnot found in a themepark

Nonsense. Themepark MMOs do not have open world design, they are clearly designed to funnel you from quest hub to quest hub, level bracketted zone to level bracketted zone and your character is carefully designed to be able to fight the content for that particular level bracket.

Skyrim was not designed like that. There was a story line that you could follow but you could also go out completely on your own and enjoy the game because the world was designed so that you could do that and still enjoy the game. ThemePark games, altough you could do it that way, are not designed as such.

And sandbox MMOs are also not defined by player made content but rather by open world design. However since they are MMOs, player made content is one of the elements typically associated with sandbox MMOs. However a ThemePark could also have it, just look at the STO foundry system, so it is not direcly related to sandbox MMOs.

What sandbox mmo's have you played? the only true sandbox i have played was swg and most people hated it because it wasn't like everquest. Developers can't win, if the move away from the mmo formula people complain that its missing features and if it sticks to the formula it's a shallow themepark wow clone.

UO, Eve, AC 1, SWG, DF and MO. And there is no such thing as a true sandbox as the therm is not exactly defined. In UO you had very limited ability to directly create content but rather it was considered a sandbox because it had an open world design, skillbased system and FFA PvP and progression were not based on doing quests. Similar with AC 1, which was a hybrid skillbased and exp system but also open world design and quests were not main path of progression.

Originally posted by cronius77

Originally posted by MMOExposed

Originally posted by Yamota

I think even one of the mmorpg staff, who had test-played the game, said it was a ThemePark so I think it is pretty much a sure thing that it is. And an Elder Scrolls game, which are traditionally open ended sandboxy RPGs, contrary to linear story based one's like Dragon Age, being created as a ThemePark deserves to be hated.

It is like taking a piss on your fanbase and creating something completely else.

 

there was never anything sandbox in a MMO kind of way about elder scrolls games. Sandbox for single player games are define by their open world design. Look it up. Nothing to do with player made content. All MMO have open worlds. Adding multiplayer to skyrim or oblivion and you get the same gameplay found in any themepark mmo. There is nothing unique about the elder scrolls gameplay thatsnot found in a themepark

this here is so true but these jaded people on this site that hate on every single new game not even released because it doesnt have open world pvp or some fake screwed up view of what a sandbox really is need to go seriously. I can understand some of the hate on games that been out awhile and made promises not kept of if someone just doesnt like the game in general but man the hate since Day 1 on this title has been way worse than both GW2 and SWTOR and its not even out yet or close to being released.

If people hate the game so much thats fine it hasnt cost a dime yet so why post about how bad its going to be? The hilarious thing though here is about 90% of the haters here you will see at the end of this year playing it and talking smack im sure yet they still contribute to the huge super problem of their own most hated game design....

Yeah the game these people are wishing has never actually existed, they are living in their heads hyping something that doesn't exist. if it did exist they would be playing, so where is this fabulous game that they are comparing every "themepark" to?

Originally posted by Istavaan

 

No game has staying power in this demanding day and age, that's a fact. people get bored faster these days. even if your perfect sandbox comes out people will get bored of it and move on.

very much agreed also the volume of games(especially MMOs) is insane you would be missing out on so much to just stick to a single game these days

Originally posted by Yamota

Originally posted by Aerowyn

Originally posted by Yamota

Originally posted by Aerowyn

Originally posted by Istavaan

Originally posted by Yamota

I think even one of the mmorpg staff, who had test-played the game, said it was a ThemePark so I think it is pretty much a sure thing that it is. And an Elder Scrolls game, which are traditionally open ended sandboxy RPGs, contrary to linear story based one's like Dragon Age, being created as a ThemePark deserves to be hated.

It is like taking a piss on your fanbase and creating something completely else.

just like how warcraft was an rts and they made it a mmorpg, is that not pissing on your fanbase? You've no idea what this game will be like yet you are hating it already, see it for yourself before you start throwing tantrums.

very much agreed.. the blind hatred over themeparks on these forums is just sad... from all i have read sounds like they have some solid ideas so hopefully it will pan out

It is not blind. Most of us labeled ThemePark haters have played the original sandbox MMOs and all the generic ThemePark MMOs and found them lacking.

I have personally played WoW, AoC, WAR, Aion, TERA and GW 2 and all of them have had the same flaws. Linear, simplistic and lack of living, breathing virtual world and instead artifical level bracketted zones which you follow in linear fashion from lvl 1 to cap.

So the hate is not blind, it is based on extensive experience.

you have not played ESO, we still don't know a lot about what the final product will actually be and you say to hate it because it's a themepark.. yea id' call that blind hatred towards themeparks... just because you haven't found one fun for you doesn't mean it won't happen.. you never know. I'd rather keep an open mind than just hate for the sake of hating on something...

You can call it swiss cheese if you want, does not make it so. I dont hate ThemeParks because I like hating, that makes no sense at all. I hate it because I have seen how it reduces a virtual world massively multiplayer experience, the original idea, to a single/limited multiplayer type of game which is has no virtual world feeling at all and tries to separate the playerbase into instances, brackets and PvP zones, rather than bring them together.

It cheapens the experience for a quick thrill and that is why I have grown to hate it and specially a game like Skyrim, which follows the open world, non linear, sandbox philosophy is reduced to yet another ThemePark. And I dont need to wait for the release to assume that because all signs are pointing to it, even an MMORPG staff who said the game is a ThemePark.

Skyrim a game that's massively dumbed down in comparison to morrowind..see i can do that too.

Originally posted by Yamota

Originally posted by MMOExposed

Originally posted by Yamota

I think even one of the mmorpg staff, who had test-played the game, said it was a ThemePark so I think it is pretty much a sure thing that it is. And an Elder Scrolls game, which are traditionally open ended sandboxy RPGs, contrary to linear story based one's like Dragon Age, being created as a ThemePark deserves to be hated.

It is like taking a piss on your fanbase and creating something completely else.

 

there was never anything sandbox in a MMO kind of way about elder scrolls games. Sandbox for single player games are define by their open world design. Look it up. Nothing to do with player made content. All MMO have open worlds. Adding multiplayer to skyrim or oblivion and you get the same gameplay found in any themepark mmo. There is nothing unique about the elder scrolls gameplay thatsnot found in a themepark

Nonsense. Themepark MMOs do not have open world design, they are clearly designed to funnel you from quest hub to quest hub, level bracketted zone to level bracketted zone and your character is carefully designed to be able to fight the content for that particular level bracket.

Skyrim was not designed like that. There was a story line that you could follow but you could also go out completely on your own and enjoy the game because the world was designed so that you could do that and still enjoy the game. ThemePark games, altough you could do it that way, are not designed as such.

And sandbox MMOs are also not defined by player made content but rather by open world design. However since they are MMOs, player made content is one of the elements typically associated with sandbox MMOs. However a ThemePark could also have it, just look at the STO foundry system, so it is not direcly related to sandbox MMOs.

Skyrim was a themepark - just because you could go out and explore does not make it any less themeparky. You can explore in GW2 also - that is how I am leveling one character, just going out ans seeing what is there.

You are picking at nits and just throwing out as much non-information as possible to see if it sticks. There are no hard and fast rules so please stop trying to invent them.

Let us wait and see what it will be BEFORE bringing on the hate or the hype engine.

This is a public forum dedicated to every MMO.  If there was no bitching, we wouldn't have active threads.

The "love" is usually religated to the games own forum, along with more bitching of course.

My issue is trying to translate an open RPG based on overpowered builds into an MMO.  My spidey sense says something may not go well.

Originally posted by Aerowyn

Originally posted by Istavaan

 

No game has staying power in this demanding day and age, that's a fact. people get bored faster these days. even if your perfect sandbox comes out people will get bored of it and move on.

very much agreed also the volume of games(especially MMOs) is insane you would be missing out on so much to just stick to a single game these days

see im a little different here , ive actually been playing skyrim since release off and on heavy at times and fallout 3 new vegas before that. Being the open ended nature of both games and the shear amount of mods for both games the replayability is just great and doesnt get old. I know they cannot do that with how TESO will work as mods wont work but the factional system in place will really help i think for stretching out the game over a longer period of time than say Rift did or WOW or SWTOR. I love TES games and fallout series storytelling and general gameplay so i cannot help but look forward to this.

Originally posted by Yamota

Originally posted by Aerowyn

Originally posted by Yamota

Originally posted by Aerowyn

Originally posted by Istavaan

Originally posted by Yamota

I

 

 

It is not blind. Most of us labeled ThemePark haters have played the original sandbox MMOs and all the generic ThemePark MMOs and found them lacking.

I have personally played WoW, AoC, WAR, Aion, TERA and GW 2 and all of them have had the same flaws. Linear, simplistic and lack of living, breathing virtual world and instead artifical level bracketted zones which you follow in linear fashion from lvl 1 to cap.

So the hate is not blind, it is based on extensive experience.

you have not played ESO, we still don't know a lot about what the final product will actually be and you say to hate it because it's a themepark.. yea id' call that blind hatred towards themeparks... just because you haven't found one fun for you doesn't mean it won't happen.. you never know. I'd rather keep an open mind than just hate for the sake of hating on something...

You can call it swiss cheese if you want, does not make it so. I dont hate ThemeParks because I like hating, that makes no sense at all. I hate it because I have seen how it reduces a virtual world massively multiplayer experience, the original idea, to a single/limited multiplayer type of game which is has no virtual world feeling at all and tries to separate the playerbase into instances, brackets and PvP zones, rather than bring them together.

It cheapens the experience for a quick thrill and that is why I have grown to hate it and specially a game like Skyrim, which follows the open world, non linear, sandbox philosophy is reduced to yet another ThemePark. And I dont need to wait for the release to assume that because all signs are pointing to it, even an MMORPG staff who said the game is a ThemePark.

Until a sandbox game is really successful, you aren't going to see the money go to making one of these.  MMOs are expensive.   Making and running a sandbox one is a lot more difficult than many fans of the genre realize.  There's a reason that almost every seminal sandbox moved away from the utter openness you admire.  On the other hand, I wish there was a game for folks who want that experiance.  But sandbox fans can't even agree on the elements needed in one.   Remember all those 'I'm not going to play it, it lacks that one feature I MUST have!' posts?  

Despite my bitchin' about the Lore issues in ESO, I will probably give it a shot, if it is not an apparant failure upon release.

Originally posted by Istavaan
My first MMORPG was horizons and i thought it was the coolest most amazing thing ever, imagine i can play this game with all these other people. The novelty has worn off now. the haters want that original experience back but the thing is you only have one first kiss you can't recreate that feeling again no matter how many sandbox features a game has.

And yet they can in different genres when new games come out.

Originally posted by Aerowyn

Originally posted by bcbully

you have not played ESO, we still don't know a lot about what the final product will actually be and you say to hate it because it's a themepark.. yea id' call that blind hatred towards themeparks... just because you haven't found one fun for you doesn't mean it won't happen.. you never know. I'd rather keep an open mind than just hate for the sake of hating on something...

butting in here. Dislike of the for themepark mmos has developed of the past 4 years or so, and for good reason.

 

At the same time, I'm a gamer, and love good games and systems. I wont know until I feel it, but the TESO combat and itemization systems seem like a welcome addition to the themepark sub genre. For this I will be giving it ago. It will have to be damn good in order to have staying power though.

which makes sense to me you go in with a cautious but open mind but to just outright hate it because it's a themepark sounds like blind hatred to me... i as well enjoy games and as much as I hate military shooters in general I played Spec ops The Line and LOVED the game(mostly just for it's story) but again if i just skipped on it because i know I hate military shooters I would of missed out on a great game.

Do you even know what blind hatred is? Let me educate you. It means to hate something without knowing anything about it and/or false information about it. I know that ESO will be a ThemePark and I know what a ThemePark formula does to an MMO. More over I know that Skyrim was not a ThemePark style RPG so my hate for it is based on facts.

Now you may believe that the fact that ESO will be a ThemePark is indeed not a fact but I believe it is and there are tons of signs pointing to it. So my hate for ESO is not blind, I dont hate it for no or false reason. I have a clear, specific reason for it and that is that the Skyrim model would have been a stellar and great sandbox MMO.

Instead they scrapped that idea and went ThemePark and, short of the Elder Scrolls skin, I dont see how those two RPGs will have anything to do with each other. It is another example where they (ab)use an excellent IP for a quick cash grab.