Originally posted by Nitth

 

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Originally posted by LadyEuphei
So, I finally got my response back from kickstarter on what will happen if greed monger changes sub type. You will be suprised how powerless it will make you feel when you read it. Btw, as always I posted a to long; didnt read section at the bottom for those of you looking to save a minute or two. I posted on my page 

 

http://www.ladyeuphei.com/greed-monger-changing-their-subtype-is-it-legal/

 

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Charge Back.

Considering it's Amazon Payments that you would be charging back, I'd rather keep my ability to use Amazon in the future, thanks.

Also, it's the nature of Kickstarter. You are not promised _anything_. You are basically making a risk investment with a possibility to get 0% of your investment back. That's how investing works.

There is absolutely zero chance for you to get your money back or win a lawsuit against the company you gave your money to. Chalk it up and be more careful next time. I've accepted this fact on every Kickstarter I've backed and looks like this one was money down the drain.

1000 dramaqueens here....

why such a drama? as i understood, they didnt change anything yet, just considering it. they also did a poll about the topic. dont forget, they are an indie company and this is their first game. they have just few experience and they didnt know that they MAYBE have to change their original plans. i dont think that it is to scam anybody. they still are working on their game and lets see what the final product is. i am very neutral about that, i was just reading. i am not going to play this game. but fmo a lot of people here are exxagerating a lot, and it seems to be a crusade against that company/game/leader which is out of control.

why not just wait and let them show us a working game and if not, THEN you can call them whatever, sue them or wrhatever.

Originally posted by mistmaker

why not just wait and let them show us a working game and if not, THEN you can call them whatever, sue them or wrhatever.

Because by then it will be too late for those that coughed up their dough if it fails.

If MMORPG.com isn't going to be a place where information can be freely dispersed so that we, as gaming inudustry consumers, can make informed judgements about whether we want to support a project or not, then what's the point?

Personally, I highly value the information posted here, pro and con, about titles that I consider possible future purchases. I've saved a lot of money by reading information here. Censor and take that valuable information away and I go with.

Originally posted by mistmaker

1000 dramaqueens here....

 

 as i understood, they didnt change anything yet, just considering it. they also did a poll about the topic

 

 

A poll that was closed afer 2 days. If they've done anything correct out of this, it's a good case study on how NOT to interect with the public.

I don't know if i could  trust a person who sells over the counter sex enhancement pills.

Seriously! could they have not picked a more suitable name than greedy monger? perhaps greed monger is quite apt for this kickstarter project.

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Originally posted by Zekiah

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Originally posted by mistmaker why not just wait and let them show us a working game and if not, THEN you can call them whatever, sue them or wrhatever.

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Because by then it will be too late for those that coughed up their dough if it fails.

If MMORPG.com isn't going to be a place where information can be freely dispersed so that we, as gaming inudustry consumers, can make informed judgements about whether we want to support a project or not, then what's the point?

Personally, I highly value the information posted here, pro and con, about titles that I consider possible future purchases. I've saved a lot of money by reading information here. Censor and take that valuable information away and I go with.

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Originally posted by mistmaker

 

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Originally posted by Zekiah

 

 

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Originally posted by mistmaker why not just wait and let them show us a working game and if not, THEN you can call them whatever, sue them or wrhatever.

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Because by then it will be too late for those that coughed up their dough if it fails.

 

If MMORPG.com isn't going to be a place where information can be freely dispersed so that we, as gaming inudustry consumers, can make informed judgements about whether we want to support a project or not, then what's the point?

Personally, I highly value the information posted here, pro and con, about titles that I consider possible future purchases. I've saved a lot of money by reading information here. Censor and take that valuable information away and I go with.

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but you dont get the point. why should it be too late, when probably nothing is wrong? ok, its not running very proffessionally, i also see that, but i also see that people exxagerte here. its like shouting "bomb" at the airport only because you see a case standing around ;-) maybe there is really a bomb inside, but if not, you just caused a lot of hysteria. what i mean is, probably they CAN deliver the game, but now they will not, just because of that hysteria. english isnt my native language, but i hope you got my point.

 

I think the point is,  the information was made available in the OP, and people can make their own decisions.  When creating a game, its helpful to have something to show for your work,  some experience in a particular field,  or at least some money or backing that you worked for.

When it comes to Kickstarters, you are asking people to invest in your company...   you won't find much information about a specific persons past on a kickstarter page, especially if their past doesn't have much to show on a prospective project.

If anything, this is a warning based on what we know....  what we DON'T know is how far the game is in production, or if the game is in production at all....    and believe me... mismanaging a budget is something even large software companies do, so to ask for crowdfunding on a project that A) Isn't far along    B) Has little funding in the first place  and/or C) Is already mismanaged in its initial stages - is a huge gamble that people should be aware of.

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Originally posted by maskedweasel

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Originally posted by mistmaker  

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Originally posted by Zekiah    

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Originally posted by mistmaker why not just wait and let them show us a working game and if not, THEN you can call them whatever, sue them or wrhatever.

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Because by then it will be too late for those that coughed up their dough if it fails.   If MMORPG.com isn't going to be a place where information can be freely dispersed so that we, as gaming inudustry consumers, can make informed judgements about whether we want to support a project or not, then what's the point? Personally, I highly value the information posted here, pro and con, about titles that I consider possible future purchases. I've saved a lot of money by reading information here. Censor and take that valuable information away and I go with.

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  but you dont get the point. why should it be too late, when probably nothing is wrong? ok, its not running very proffessionally, i also see that, but i also see that people exxagerte here. its like shouting "bomb" at the airport only because you see a case standing around ;-) maybe there is really a bomb inside, but if not, you just caused a lot of hysteria. what i mean is, probably they CAN deliver the game, but now they will not, just because of that hysteria. english isnt my native language, but i hope you got my point.  

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I think the point is,  the information was made available in the OP, and people can make their own decisions.  When creating a game, its helpful to have something to show for your work,  some experience in a particular field,  or at least some money or backing that you worked for.

 

When it comes to Kickstarters, you are asking people to invest in your company...   you won't find much information about a specific persons past on a kickstarter page, especially if their past doesn't have much to show on a prospective project.

 

If anything, this is a warning based on what we know....  what we DON'T know is how far the game is in production, or if the game is in production at all....    and believe me... mismanaging a budget is something even large software companies do, so to ask for crowdfunding on a project that A) Isn't far along    B) Has little funding in the first place  and/or C) Is already mismanaged in its initial stages - is a huge gamble that people should be aware of.

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Originally posted by mistmaker

 

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Originally posted by maskedweasel

 

 

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Originally posted by mistmaker  

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Originally posted by Zekiah    

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Originally posted by mistmaker why not just wait and let them show us a working game and if not, THEN you can call them whatever, sue them or wrhatever.

---

Because by then it will be too late for those that coughed up their dough if it fails.   If MMORPG.com isn't going to be a place where information can be freely dispersed so that we, as gaming inudustry consumers, can make informed judgements about whether we want to support a project or not, then what's the point? Personally, I highly value the information posted here, pro and con, about titles that I consider possible future purchases. I've saved a lot of money by reading information here. Censor and take that valuable information away and I go with.

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  but you dont get the point. why should it be too late, when probably nothing is wrong? ok, its not running very proffessionally, i also see that, but i also see that people exxagerte here. its like shouting "bomb" at the airport only because you see a case standing around ;-) maybe there is really a bomb inside, but if not, you just caused a lot of hysteria. what i mean is, probably they CAN deliver the game, but now they will not, just because of that hysteria. english isnt my native language, but i hope you got my point.  

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I think the point is,  the information was made available in the OP, and people can make their own decisions.  When creating a game, its helpful to have something to show for your work,  some experience in a particular field,  or at least some money or backing that you worked for.

 

 

When it comes to Kickstarters, you are asking people to invest in your company...   you won't find much information about a specific persons past on a kickstarter page, especially if their past doesn't have much to show on a prospective project.

 

If anything, this is a warning based on what we know....  what we DON'T know is how far the game is in production, or if the game is in production at all....    and believe me... mismanaging a budget is something even large software companies do, so to ask for crowdfunding on a project that A) Isn't far along    B) Has little funding in the first place  and/or C) Is already mismanaged in its initial stages - is a huge gamble that people should be aware of.

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and this is absolutley ok to inform people. but what i read the last days was more than just inform, a real hate campaign of a few people because uf unknown motivation. dont get me wrong, i also read those links and think my part about mr appleton, the man who wants to do 1000 things, but still, he didnt do any harm to anybody yet, but those few people do harm to the project.

 

I disagree.

The links show lies (like the FB "likes" being paid for) and wanting to make a P2P game after getting money in hand (three times the original amount asked for...) adding new land when people who donated immediatley had the value of their land cut in half and lots and lots of shadyness.

Also, I think the word "investing" is ioncorrect. Lets call it what it is- A donation. OR paying for an unfinished product. Investment (IMHO) means that there is chance to "share in the wealth" of the company you are funding. That is not the case with KS.

-Anyhow, disagreement is fine. But the information itself is vital to allowing a consumer to make an informed descision as to the game itself and the credibility of the man controlling the money they will (potentially) donate.

Personally, I see Red Flagas everywhere- If you do not- That is your choice.

-Time will tell.

Originally posted by Jacxolope

Originally posted by mistmaker

 

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Originally posted by maskedweasel

 

 

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Originally posted by mistmaker  

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Originally posted by Zekiah    

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Originally posted by mistmaker why not just wait and let them show us a working game and if not, THEN you can call them whatever, sue them or wrhatever.

---

Because by then it will be too late for those that coughed up their dough if it fails.   If MMORPG.com isn't going to be a place where information can be freely dispersed so that we, as gaming inudustry consumers, can make informed judgements about whether we want to support a project or not, then what's the point? Personally, I highly value the information posted here, pro and con, about titles that I consider possible future purchases. I've saved a lot of money by reading information here. Censor and take that valuable information away and I go with.

---

  but you dont get the point. why should it be too late, when probably nothing is wrong? ok, its not running very proffessionally, i also see that, but i also see that people exxagerte here. its like shouting "bomb" at the airport only because you see a case standing around ;-) maybe there is really a bomb inside, but if not, you just caused a lot of hysteria. what i mean is, probably they CAN deliver the game, but now they will not, just because of that hysteria. english isnt my native language, but i hope you got my point.  

---

I think the point is,  the information was made available in the OP, and people can make their own decisions.  When creating a game, its helpful to have something to show for your work,  some experience in a particular field,  or at least some money or backing that you worked for.

 

 

When it comes to Kickstarters, you are asking people to invest in your company...   you won't find much information about a specific persons past on a kickstarter page, especially if their past doesn't have much to show on a prospective project.

 

If anything, this is a warning based on what we know....  what we DON'T know is how far the game is in production, or if the game is in production at all....    and believe me... mismanaging a budget is something even large software companies do, so to ask for crowdfunding on a project that A) Isn't far along    B) Has little funding in the first place  and/or C) Is already mismanaged in its initial stages - is a huge gamble that people should be aware of.

---

 
and this is absolutley ok to inform people. but what i read the last days was more than just inform, a real hate campaign of a few people because uf unknown motivation. dont get me wrong, i also read those links and think my part about mr appleton, the man who wants to do 1000 things, but still, he didnt do any harm to anybody yet, but those few people do harm to the project.

 

I disagree.

The links show lies (like the FB "likes" being paid for) and wanting to make a P2P game after getting money in hand (three times the original amount asked for...) adding new land when people who donated immediatley had the value of their land cut in half and lots and lots of shadyness.

Also, I think the word "investing" is ioncorrect. Lets call it what it is- A donation. OR paying for an unfinished product. Investment (IMHO) means that there is chance to "share in the wealth" of the company you are funding. That is not the case with KS.

-Anyhow, disagreement is fine. But the information itself is vital to allowing a consumer to make an informed descision as to the game itself and the credibility of the man controlling the money they will (potentially) donate.

Personally, I see Red Flagas everywhere- If you do not- That is your choice.

-Time will tell.

oh, i do, i do. but i wouldnt start a hate campaign. informing is ok though. 

its still possible that they deliver a perhaps good game. having weaknesses or even lying if unfortunately a common thing in the gaming industry and in the whole life. not everything is to do harm

Originally posted by Aeonblades
Thanks for all the links, this guy is a crook and has no idea how to handle the general public/gamers. Back this at your own risk, who knows this loose cannon will do next.

Thank you the community finally sees the guy as he truly is. Ive been getting posts deleted for months trying to explain it.

You may love the project, You may love the idea of the game but you do not give a loose cannon with only an idea like this money so he can come threaten and ban people that have paid him.

Its kinda sad he had to resort to his own forum where he can censor everything. I dont think hes intelligent enough to understand that any big game, any big project of any kind on the internet especailly mmorpgs and games will have both the crowd that will kiss your ass. It will also have the crowd that will point out every fallacy you make.

You need BOTH of these types of people for your game to be good. Its a good sign for this to happen. It is absolutely rediculous that jason has ran to his forum where he bans anyone that brings up this at all, or questions him at all.

First of all its rediculous that hes censoring opinions he doesnt like but the worse part about it is he doesnht even know hes hurting his game by doing it (other then the obvious horrible PR reputation). You need both of these groups for your game to improve. You cant just rely on the people you have convinced to kiss you ass. You will get a shit product as there is no critizism.

Ah well.. at least this trainwreck has finally been brought to light.

I'm seeing lessons to be learned here.

#1. Your past does not vanish, especially if you post the details of it on the internet.

#2. You can't defend what doesn't exist. If your game isn't complete, you don't have many legs to stand on when you try to prop it up when your team members are green.

#3. Don't take it personal by not letting it be personal. You chose to share whatever you did about yourself, now it's open for criticism and always will be. It takes fortitude to withold private information but the return is still that it can't be twisted as has been since the first person that said - no, I won't tell Facebook everything about me. The separation of your personal life and business life need to stay in place. Continue to use a new identity for each interest and do not connect them all.

#4. Taking shortcuts that you admit to will be attributed to your character values at the end of the day. Those beliefs about you will then be applied to everything you undertake - forever. In the same way a thief takes money from someone, their actions are remembered whether they ever take something that isn't theirs or not again. They will always have that lapse in trust lurking from their past.

#5. Over moderation will be noted and remarked on in outside places. It doesn't end the conversation to mute someone in a private area, the conversation simply changes to another venue. Unless you want to monitor the entire internet for potential trouble, let it all be found on your own place so that you can ultimately spend less time seeking it out to rebut it. Anyone that then visits your official site will see official responses and be satisfied that things were at least addressed. If they see no mention of it then they may bring it up as innocently as it seems, now you have to mute them and release yet another potential customer from being engaged.

#6. When you ask for money, expect to be accountable for how you are spending it. You will get complaints about it being incorrectly used, especially when you ask for more or change the original gameplan that was sold.

#7. Admit mediocrity and deliver such but don't belie superiority while delivering mediocrity or there will be calls made on your capability.

Lots of this seems like basic internet usage but I thought I would try to define what I was seeing. I expect one day to be running my own game so this for me is a display of things to learn  :P

Originally posted by greenreen

I'm seeing lessons to be learned here.

#1. Your past does not vanish, especially if you post the details of it on the internet.

#2. You can't defend what doesn't exist. If your game isn't complete, you don't have many legs to stand on when you try to prop it up when your team members are green.

... (shortened for readability)

Lots of this seems like basic internet usage but I thought I would try to define what I was seeing. I expect one day to be running my own game so this for me is a display of things to learn  :P

 

GreenGreen sums it up nicely.

If you just stick to your enthusiasm for the game, your vision, artwork and plan then you will not have to deal with people calling you out on the past experience that you made up. Especially if it has nothing to do with your Project.

I still don't understand why he told anyone that he owned a record label. It does not add to your credibility as game designer and certainly not as manager if it turns out to be a webpage for a college band.

...still baffled. 

On another note, i am still missing a Mission statement and full feature list on their Webpage. Anyone have that information since i can't seem to find it anywhere.

Originally posted by Venger

My opinion take it or leave it, means very little to me.

 

Am I a GM backer? Yes.

 

Why? Well because I am sick of the same old same old and I believe in the vision that the GM team has.

 

Is it a risk? Yep, but the time has come to put up or shut up.

 

Do I care how the GM team builds the game? Absolutely not. As long as I have a good product to play in the end I could care less if the build it themselves or buy bits and pieces and put it together.

 

Do I expect changes from conceptual design and actual design? As a person that takes concepts, puts designs on paper, and then ends up in the field dealing with the field conditions I fully expect there to be changes sometimes drastic changes.

 

Do I care that Jason lost his cool. Nope. With the professional trolls on this site someone that has passion about his vision getting beat on and legal double talk I completely understand it.  The team is passionate about their vision.

 

There are to many arm chair designers and experts on everything on this site to take most of the drama seriously here.

 

 

Hmmm- Isnt that exactly what jason Appleton is? An "Armchair Designer and expert at everything" who is now using other peoples Money and changing everything up now that Money is in hand?

I think any of us here could do the same- Some of us are also "game designers" and "idea guys" who first want a solid design before asking for money. I too could cut and paste, pay for facebook likes, lie and hype and promise the World. I too could promise a F2P game which does all and then (once getting 90K) say "oops, my bad..Going to need a Monthly with that"

-That is called Shady in my book and folks have a right to know.

Some of us also want our projects on KS and with all the scamming (and potential scamming) lies, etc...People will have been burned too many times before we are ready. Jason (evidently) wasnt ready.

EDIT: -But as you said- Its your right to spend your money however you wish (and everyones)- You can throw it out the window for all I care (and I think you have, in this case) but time will tell. Its  our right to try and inform people of what we know, suspect and have seen.

Originally posted by Venger

 

Is it a risk? Yep, but the time has come to put up or shut up.

 

 

I just don't think this is right guys.

People don't build mmorpgs unless they are gamers. I would rather these guys try than get another clone from one of the AAAs.

This guy is more like us than them.