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Elder Scrolls Online

Elder Scrolls Online 

General Discussion  » Clearly Visible Problems

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28 posts found
  Caliburn101

Novice Member

Joined: 3/30/11
Posts: 647

"Imagination is more important than knowledge." Albert Einstein

 
OP  1/23/13 8:46:06 AM#1

I would encourage the upcoming beta testers (of which I hope to be one) to emphasise the following issues in a big way to ensure at least some of them are addressed to some extent.

  1. The Way the War Works – the war has (by agreement of the factions or some other reason presumably) been restricted to Cyrodil – otherwise commons sense would mean raids into home territories. There are possibilities here;
    1. Lifting restricted zone access under certain circumstances – disguises, trade missions and spying or espionage missions would give people access to other regions, dungeons etc. and greatly reduce this negative consequence of the PvP setup.
  2. Guild Building and Housing – this needs to be put in at the start – trophies, statues, tapestries, treasures etc. that have Guild or personal significance should have a home – right alongside the characters.
  3. Guild Membership – Guilds needs to be exclusive. In a factionalise world it makes no sense at all to have open multi-guild membership. This has no arguable merit.
  4. Faction Membership and Alts – Alts should not be able to go into Cyrodil and there should be a cooldown on a toggleable ‘Main’ declaration. Otherwise the combination of same-server other Faction Alts, the use of TS and the minimum level of deviousness will mean every single enemy movement, strategy and tactic in Cyrodil will be reported to opposing factions live. No quicker way to ruin the ‘Fog of War’ and the challenge and fun that entails.
If they don't, and these get left in 'as is' (or seems to be based on current information) the game will suffer - which would be a great shame.
  DMKano

Elite Member

Joined: 6/17/11
Posts: 6144

1/23/13 8:49:40 AM#2

Every major guild these days has members with multiple accounts in separate factions so that they know what the enemies are doing.

So creating alts in other faction is a moot point due to the fact that folks will just have multiple accts if you lock it down.

fog of war in online gaming is pretty much impossible to do, as you never know which players have other accts on the enemy side.

  Shaike

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/23/12
Posts: 290

At first there were games, then MMOs, then MMORPGs then I understood I had no life :-)

1/23/13 8:50:48 AM#3

I will not respond to everything you said - and my reasons are my own.

I only wish to convay my opinion on one thing - FINALLY AN MMO THAT MAKES/FORCES YOU TO CREATE ALTS....

I do not think this should be changed and i really am SURE it will add to this game being different than all the other trash we have now......

Just my 2 cents...

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

1/23/13 8:51:53 AM#4
1 drop the megaserver. Have servers, adopt the 3 rulesets of daoc - core (what this megaserver is using), free for all and coop.
2 agree
3 agree
4 sort of agree, the megaserver thing gets them into this mess. If they went with daoc system they could - faction lock the core servers, single character lock the ffa servers, and allow anything goes alt wise on the coop servers.
  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

1/23/13 8:54:01 AM#5
Kano
Sure spying happens in all mmos, some players can afford multiple accounts
But with the megaserver entire guilds could cheese pvp with alts as there is no cash disincentive to prevent them.
  Vonatar

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/18/10
Posts: 598

1/23/13 8:56:30 AM#6
Drop the factional segregation in PVE and let us have all of Tamriel to roam. This is what I will be telling them. This is Elder Scrolls not DAoC. If people want faction warfare they can go to Cyrodiil. Unlike DAoC there is a very big reason to let us go where we want in the world.
  DMKano

Elite Member

Joined: 6/17/11
Posts: 6144

1/23/13 8:58:33 AM#7
Originally posted by ShakyMo
Kano
Sure spying happens in all mmos, some players can afford multiple accounts
But with the megaserver entire guilds could cheese pvp with alts as there is no cash disincentive to prevent them.

I agree, I was just pointing out that OPs idea of "fog of war" in MMORPGs is impossible to implement due to multiple accts. 

  Kaneth

Elite Member

Joined: 8/19/07
Posts: 1669

1/23/13 9:05:12 AM#8
Originally posted by Caliburn101

I would encourage the upcoming beta testers (of which I hope to be one) to emphasise the following issues in a big way to ensure at least some of them are addressed to some extent.

  1. The Way the War Works – the war has (by agreement of the factions or some other reason presumably) been restricted to Cyrodil – otherwise commons sense would mean raids into home territories. There are possibilities here;
    1. Lifting restricted zone access under certain circumstances – disguises, trade missions and spying or espionage missions would give people access to other regions, dungeons etc. and greatly reduce this negative consequence of the PvP setup.
  2. Guild Building and Housing – this needs to be put in at the start – trophies, statues, tapestries, treasures etc. that have Guild or personal significance should have a home – right alongside the characters.
  3. Guild Membership – Guilds needs to be exclusive. In a factionalise world it makes no sense at all to have open multi-guild membership. This has no arguable merit.
  4. Faction Membership and Alts – Alts should not be able to go into Cyrodil and there should be a cooldown on a toggleable ‘Main’ declaration. Otherwise the combination of same-server other Faction Alts, the use of TS and the minimum level of deviousness will mean every single enemy movement, strategy and tactic in Cyrodil will be reported to opposing factions live. No quicker way to ruin the ‘Fog of War’ and the challenge and fun that entails.
If they don't, and these get left in 'as is' (or seems to be based on current information) the game will suffer - which would be a great shame.

1) It's using a similar system as DAoC, which makes sense considering Matt Frior is at the helm. Having safe home realms worked fine in DAoC as well. If you want a successful mmo in todays market, the pvp and pve need to be kept separate so as to not cater too much to one group or another

2) I agree, but this is actually not a common feature in mmos, so I wouldn't hold my breath. It would be nice though.

3) Are you talking about the historic guilds from the ES series, or player run guilds here?

4) Doesn't matter if you place a cooldown on alts for Cyrodil, there will always be people with multiple accounts. Realm spying happens, it sucks, but it's just part of how these games tend to work.

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

1/23/13 9:08:35 AM#9
Kaneth
1 on CORE servers. Daoc also had ffa servers where you could go anywhere and have darkfall style guild vs guild action. It also had coop servers where you could make guilds with the other factions and go pve all the dungeons.
  Vesavius

Old School

Joined: 3/08/04
Posts: 7484

Players come for the game, but they stay for the people- Most Devs have forgotten this.

1/23/13 9:11:18 AM#10
Originally posted by Caliburn101
  1. Guild Membership – Guilds needs to be exclusive. In a factionalise world it makes no sense at all to have open multi-guild membership. This has no arguable merit.

 

They are really allowing cross faction guilds..? And multi guild membership?

Oh boy...

I get Devs wanna be all laid back and 'do what you want' but, y'know, a certain amount of restrictions and rules are actually *good* for a game and the player of that game.

Devs these days are like those parents that you see who are shit scared to tell their kids what to do or put any boundaries on them in case they scream 'I hate you mommy!!!' at them in the supermarket.

It's pathetic.

 

  Ambros123

Novice Member

Joined: 12/04/11
Posts: 891

1/23/13 9:13:07 AM#11

1.  Sorta agree... sorta.   The only this this would do is add options to PvP but then again this would require a segregated zone (believe it or not people who want open world PvP are the minority).  But then again it will only worsen issues with 3 faction PvP.  This is not a true sandbox game.  Keep PvP in Cyrodil but make it great instead of adding all these additions and then making it much more complicated and in the end a pile of turd.

2.  Disagree.  Nice stuff but not necessities.  Should be on a "To Do" list of importance but certainly not a necessity.  These are luxary features, and certainly not a "clearly visible problem."

3.  Actually there are plenty of multi-guild arguements.  Dead guilds, a guild of real life buddies, a PvE focused guild, an RP guild (which will be seeing in ES:O), a PvP centric guild, ect ect.  I stay dedicated to guilds but there are times when I like to test the water a bit or how some people rub me off the wrong way and best if I don't play with em for a while.

4.  Ohhh please... like this doesn't happen already.  People are always reporting activities and will always find ways to do it.  What they really need to address is faction imbalance issues.  THAT is a killer in 3 faction warfare which TSW can attest to.  Peope serious about winning in PvP will go for the biggest pop faction and will just zerg win.

  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10942

I think with my heart and move with my head.-Kongos

1/23/13 9:14:17 AM#12


Originally posted by Caliburn101
I would encourage the upcoming beta testers (of which I hope to be one) to emphasise the following issues in a big way to ensure at least some of them are addressed to some extent. [*] The Way the War Works – the war has (by agreement of the factions or some other reason presumably) been restricted to Cyrodil – otherwise commons sense would mean raids into home territories. There are possibilities here; [*] Lifting restricted zone access under certain circumstances – disguises, trade missions and spying or espionage missions would give people access to other regions, dungeons etc. and greatly reduce this negative consequence of the PvP setup. [*] Guild Building and Housing – this needs to be put in at the start – trophies, statues, tapestries, treasures etc. that have Guild or personal significance should have a home – right alongside the characters.
Guild Membership – Guilds needs to be exclusive. In a factionalise world it makes no sense at all to have open multi-guild membership. This has no arguable merit.
Faction Membership and Alts – Alts should not be able to go into Cyrodil and there should be a cooldown on a toggleable ‘Main’ declaration. Otherwise the combination of same-server other Faction Alts, the use of TS and the minimum level of deviousness will mean every single enemy movement, strategy and tactic in Cyrodil will be reported to opposing factions live. No quicker way to ruin the ‘Fog of War’ and the challenge and fun that entails.
If they don't, and these get left in 'as is' (or seems to be based on current information) the game will suffer - which would be a great shame.



1) What is the negative consequence of the PvP setup? You said there's one but haven't described it.
2) Agree, but this never goes in at the start. I don't know why.
3) Joining a single guild is something that needs to go away if the social aspect of MMORPG is going to survive. People simply do not expect to only be able to join one group.
4) Too many rules. A 'fog of war' already exists because individuals have a limited view of opposing faction activities. I don't this would really add anything to the experience of the game.

I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  Ambros123

Novice Member

Joined: 12/04/11
Posts: 891

1/23/13 9:15:31 AM#13
Originally posted by Vesavius
Originally posted by Caliburn101
  1. Guild Membership – Guilds needs to be exclusive. In a factionalise world it makes no sense at all to have open multi-guild membership. This has no arguable merit.

 

They are really allowing cross faction guilds..? And multi guild membership?

Oh boy...

I get Devs wanna be all laid back and 'do what you want' but, y'know, a certain amount of restrictions and rules are actually *good* for a game and the player of that game.

Devs these days are like those parents that you see who are shit scared to tell their kids what to do or put any boundaries on them in case they scream 'I hate you mommy!!!' at them in the supermarket.

It's pathetic.

 

Actually no they haven't, OP is on his soapbox.  It's not confirmed whether it's in or out.  It's on the table but nothing has been decided yet.

  Vesavius

Old School

Joined: 3/08/04
Posts: 7484

Players come for the game, but they stay for the people- Most Devs have forgotten this.

1/23/13 9:18:20 AM#14
Originally posted by Ambros123
Originally posted by Vesavius
Originally posted by Caliburn101
  1. Guild Membership – Guilds needs to be exclusive. In a factionalise world it makes no sense at all to have open multi-guild membership. This has no arguable merit.

 

They are really allowing cross faction guilds..? And multi guild membership?

Oh boy...

I get Devs wanna be all laid back and 'do what you want' but, y'know, a certain amount of restrictions and rules are actually *good* for a game and the player of that game.

Devs these days are like those parents that you see who are shit scared to tell their kids what to do or put any boundaries on them in case they scream 'I hate you mommy!!!' at them in the supermarket.

Actually no they haven't, OP is on his soapbox.  It's not confirmed whether it's in or out.  It's on the table but nothing has been decided yet.

 

Wow... such a core gameplay consideration hasn't been decided yet? It's pretty late in the day for them to not know which way to jump on this tbh... 

  Kaneth

Elite Member

Joined: 8/19/07
Posts: 1669

1/23/13 9:18:21 AM#15
Originally posted by ShakyMo
Kaneth
1 on CORE servers. Daoc also had ffa servers where you could go anywhere and have darkfall style guild vs guild action. It also had coop servers where you could make guilds with the other factions and go pve all the dungeons.

Now isn't there something about being able to choose from different "phases" of the megaserver? You take that "personality" test and then get placed in a "phase" with people of similar interests. If that's the case, couldn't they make a FFA "phase" and a co-op "phase" of the megaserver?.

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

1/23/13 9:18:37 AM#16
Ambros a big problem with tsw is the mixed message of pve together then pvp against each other. Also ability to make cross faction alts easily then occupy fusang with them to take out real spots. There's no such team balance issues in say ps2.
  Freezzo

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/28/12
Posts: 235

1/23/13 9:21:08 AM#17
Sorry guys, but it's not a DAOC graphics overhaul?

"We need men who can dream of things that never were." - John F. Kennedy
And for MMORPGs ever so true...

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

1/23/13 9:22:49 AM#18
Kaneth not really.
You took keeps and stuff on a guild rather than faction basis on the ffa server. Also having say coop phases, won't stop the alt cheese on the core ruleset.

In my experience when you have rvr type play you need faction lock on accounts. It's why planetside and daoc work, and war and gw2 sorta work, but why swtor & tsw don't work at all (also war and daoc since they merged servers and put a timer lock in instead)
  Caliburn101

Novice Member

Joined: 3/30/11
Posts: 647

"Imagination is more important than knowledge." Albert Einstein

 
OP  1/24/13 9:48:33 AM#19
Originally posted by Ambros123

4.  Ohhh please... like this doesn't happen already.  People are always reporting activities and will always find ways to do it.  What they really need to address is faction imbalance issues.  THAT is a killer in 3 faction warfare which TSW can attest to.  Peope serious about winning in PvP will go for the biggest pop faction and will just zerg win.

Sorry I wasn't entirely clear here;

It's not that it doesn't happen already that I am unhappy about - it's the fact that it will be so EASY and therefore a standard tactic even for the least munchkin guilds who wouldn't normally make the effort of paying double for the priviledge. It could become so ubiquitous as to make it suicide NOT to do it...

  Caliburn101

Novice Member

Joined: 3/30/11
Posts: 647

"Imagination is more important than knowledge." Albert Einstein

 
OP  1/24/13 9:50:53 AM#20
Originally posted by Ambros123
Originally posted by Vesavius
Originally posted by Caliburn101
  1. Guild Membership – Guilds needs to be exclusive. In a factionalise world it makes no sense at all to have open multi-guild membership. This has no arguable merit.

 

They are really allowing cross faction guilds..? And multi guild membership?

Oh boy...

I get Devs wanna be all laid back and 'do what you want' but, y'know, a certain amount of restrictions and rules are actually *good* for a game and the player of that game.

Devs these days are like those parents that you see who are shit scared to tell their kids what to do or put any boundaries on them in case they scream 'I hate you mommy!!!' at them in the supermarket.

It's pathetic.

 

Actually no they haven't, OP is on his soapbox.  It's not confirmed whether it's in or out.  It's on the table but nothing has been decided yet.

I am indeed on my soapbox, but I never said it was in - it's the possibility of it being in I am alarmed about...

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