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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Will most player even notice if the virtual world is taken away from MMO pve gameplay?

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238 posts found
  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19524

 
OP  1/22/13 3:29:12 PM#101
Originally posted by GrayGhost79
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by GrayGhost79

No, I don't agree with you. Simple as that lol. They are themeparks, this is what a themepark does. This is why many prefer sandbox games over themeparks.. Sandbox games utilize the world a great deal more and don't tend to do much if any of the themepark type of dungeons and raids. 

 

So... no I don't agree with you. 

Wait .. how can you state that with a straight face?

The biggest sandbox is waht .. EVE .. with 500k players .. a drop in the bucket compared to themepark games.

WOW, GW1, GW2, .. even TOR ..are much bigger than the bigger sandbox games.

Where did I say All, Most, everyone, or anything of that nature? I said many, which is an accurate statement. 500k alone is enough to qualify as many and EvE is not even home to all sandbox players. 

 

So, yes I can say that with a straight face. 

In that case, you would agree that many .. and many more than those would prefer sandbox, prefer themepark games.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19524

 
OP  1/22/13 3:31:14 PM#102
Originally posted by Swiftrevoir
When and if this ever happens to MMOs I will be back on a full diet of UnmassivelySingleplayerOfflineRPGs.  I have quit several MMOs already that just had the feel of being in a lobby waiting for action.  When this happens with a game I go back to prancing and gallivanting in games like Skyrim......and have a BLAST!

wait .. why? If you like SKYRIM, why discriminate against MMOs that play like SKYRIM? Shouldn't you like that instead?

Personally i would play MMOs like a SP game if it plays as a fun SP game.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19524

 
OP  1/22/13 3:33:43 PM#103
Originally posted by sunshadow21

It's an interesting question, and one that is not going to get much of a clear answer on any forum simply because those who tend to read forums are only a small portion of everyone who plays such games. Myself, after reading all the responses, I kinda have to agree with the OP that  the trend is definitely toward lobby style games in practice, even with the games that have a "world" that people spend time in while waiting for the "main" events done in instances. Granted, not everyone plays the games that way, but increasingly that is how they are designed, and those who play differently are playing in a way not fully supported by most devs. It's one reason that aside from EVE, and briefly TSW, I haven't seen any MMO recently that made me look past the title and the initial description.

As for how much an "open world" would be missed, it's hard to say precisely. It would certainly be noticed, but how much it would actually be missed is another question entirely and would depend largely on how well implemented the instances were.

I suppose that is the better way of asking the question. Does the world matter at all, if the gameplay is mostly not in it.

And finaly someone gets the point. It is really about playstyle. Whatever the game is classifed as .. is not that important.

  Hedeon

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/27/05
Posts: 909

1/22/13 3:35:07 PM#104

can only see alot of people in this thread to be too pigheaded, to understand the question, but then I very much agree with the OP, not that  it is what I want from a MMO.

would I notice if there were no virtual world in a game? ofc...but that is just answering to the title, which I guess aint the best chosen..

in themepark MMOs - the by mass popular MMOs, and by that what most big companies will try cater to, the PERSISTENT virtual world really should just be removed, the sole reason they are there is for developers to charge 15$/month+,  you go through them once, and rarely return, that is such a waste of ressources to create a persistent virtual world for that.

the persistent world serves too small a purpose in themepark MMOs, the game that made me change my mind to this stance is borderlands....to me the diffrence between that game and a themepark MMO is too small to wait about 5 years to get me hands on the actual game.

this would be an extention of the thread about lack of massive gameplay in MMOs...

  winter

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/08/03
Posts: 2236

1/22/13 3:35:47 PM#105

 So lets see if i got the OP's question correctly. In a nutshell the OP is asking if most players are idiots?

 Well the big name developers that keep dumbing down games and putting out more and more simplistic casual freindly games seem to think so.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19524

 
OP  1/22/13 3:37:27 PM#106
Originally posted by winter

 So lets see if i got the OP's question correctly. In a nutshell the OP is asking if most players are idiots?

 Well the big name developers that keep dumbing down games and putting out more and more simplistic casual freindly games seem to think so.

hmm .. how is recent game simplistic?

WOW has much more complex combat mechanics than EQ and UO. When i played EQ from the beginning, there was no CD, no proc, no diminsihing return in CC ... WOW .. heck even Diablo (the first one) is much more complex in combat mechanics than EQ.

  winter

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/08/03
Posts: 2236

1/22/13 3:39:00 PM#107
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by sunshadow21

It's an interesting question, and one that is not going to get much of a clear answer on any forum simply because those who tend to read forums are only a small portion of everyone who plays such games. Myself, after reading all the responses, I kinda have to agree with the OP that  the trend is definitely toward lobby style games in practice, even with the games that have a "world" that people spend time in while waiting for the "main" events done in instances. Granted, not everyone plays the games that way, but increasingly that is how they are designed, and those who play differently are playing in a way not fully supported by most devs. It's one reason that aside from EVE, and briefly TSW, I haven't seen any MMO recently that made me look past the title and the initial description.

As for how much an "open world" would be missed, it's hard to say precisely. It would certainly be noticed, but how much it would actually be missed is another question entirely and would depend largely on how well implemented the instances were.

I suppose that is the better way of asking the question. Does the world matter at all, if the gameplay is mostly not in it.

And finaly someone gets the point. It is really about playstyle. Whatever the game is classifed as .. is not that important.

Then you should really rename the thread rather then asking if players "will notice" which IMO anyone with much intelligence WILL notice.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19524

 
OP  1/22/13 3:39:33 PM#108
Originally posted by Hedeon

can only see alot of people in this thread to be too pigheaded, to understand the question, but then I very much agree with the OP, not that  it is what I want from a MMO.

would I notice if there were no virtual world in a game? ofc...but that is just answering to the title, which I guess aint the best chosen..

in themepark MMOs - the by mass popular MMOs, and by that what most big companies will try cater to, the PERSISTENT virtual world really should just be removed, the sole reason they are there is for developers to charge 15$/month+,  you go through them once, and rarely return, that is such a waste of ressources to create a persistent virtual world for that.

the persistent world serves too small a purpose in themepark MMOs, the game that made me change my mind to this stance is borderlands....to me the diffrence between that game and a themepark MMO is too small to wait about 5 years to get me hands on the actual game.

this would be an extention of the thread about lack of massive gameplay in MMOs...

I would use TOR as the best example. It would be a much BETTER game if the persistent world is removed, and resources used to juice up combat.

haha .. i love borderlands too. Great game. And it certainly does not need to be a MMO to have the themepark kind of gameplay (and mix in with FPS). I would say teh same about D3, and Torchlight.

 

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19524

 
OP  1/22/13 3:40:21 PM#109
Originally posted by winter
 

Then you should really rename the thread rather then asking if players "will notice" which IMO anyone with much intelligence WILL notice.

Nah .. the better question is if anyone, intelligence or not, will "care".

  Phelcher

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/01/09
Posts: 1133

1/22/13 3:43:09 PM#110
Most WoW kiddies wont... they only know coolaid. For those whi know mmorpg do and simply dont invest thought into trite kiddie games like over the past 5 years.

Hilarious watching the market persue youmger and younger players.. and consequently goimg free to play... wheen they find oit kids dont have an income and must bug mommy.

Where-as, the market moved away from adult content and premium pricing. In which, isnt a problem for an adult.. the problem came when WoW wanted to charge the same premium as an adult game. Ruined the whole mmorpg business model. WoW shoulve been $5.99\month.

I hope eqnext is $20 a month and zero hand-holding game mechanics. Dont need a million players... just 400k that is willing to spend the next 5 years in their world. Though, children will still buy in, then start to complain its too hard, etc.

"No they are not charity. That is where the whales come in. (I play for free. Whales pays.) Devs get a business. That is how it works."


-Nariusseldon

  winter

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/08/03
Posts: 2236

1/22/13 3:43:50 PM#111
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by winter

 So lets see if i got the OP's question correctly. In a nutshell the OP is asking if most players are idiots?

 Well the big name developers that keep dumbing down games and putting out more and more simplistic casual freindly games seem to think so.

hmm .. how is recent game simplistic?

WOW has much more complex combat mechanics than EQ and UO. When i played EQ from the beginning, there was no CD, no proc, no diminsihing return in CC ... WOW .. heck even Diablo (the first one) is much more complex in combat mechanics than EQ.

 How old are WoW, and Diablo? Do you consider that recent? Ok lets take WoW now as compared to WoW then at least, wouldn't you say they have simplified the skill trees by taking away choices, that yes many players stated were note used in the power builds? Instead of changing skills to make them more usefull which would have opened a bunch of problems to balance they simply removed them and said ok here you can have 1 A, B, or C choice every 10 levels.

Edit: Come to think of it I'd say Diablo3 is more simplistic then Diablo, or Diablo2 now that you mention it. My opinion of course

  winter

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/08/03
Posts: 2236

1/22/13 3:47:28 PM#112
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by winter
 

Then you should really rename the thread rather then asking if players "will notice" which IMO anyone with much intelligence WILL notice.

Nah .. the better question is if anyone, intelligence or not, will "care".

 Then don't complain if people answer your question of "Will they notice" over your real question of "Does it matter" Yeah I'm probably nitpicky.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19524

 
OP  1/22/13 3:48:47 PM#113
Originally posted by winter
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by winter
 

Then you should really rename the thread rather then asking if players "will notice" which IMO anyone with much intelligence WILL notice.

Nah .. the better question is if anyone, intelligence or not, will "care".

 Then don't complain if people answer your question of "Will they notice" over your real question of "Does it matter" Yeah I'm probably nitpicky.

Yeah you are. But there is nothing preventing me to extend the discussion to "if they care" in this topic. I doubt i need to open another thread for that discussion.

And i am not complaining. Just discussing the ins and outs.

  jimdandy26

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/28/12
Posts: 559

1/22/13 3:50:26 PM#114
Originally posted by winter
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by winter

 So lets see if i got the OP's question correctly. In a nutshell the OP is asking if most players are idiots?

 Well the big name developers that keep dumbing down games and putting out more and more simplistic casual freindly games seem to think so.

hmm .. how is recent game simplistic?

WOW has much more complex combat mechanics than EQ and UO. When i played EQ from the beginning, there was no CD, no proc, no diminsihing return in CC ... WOW .. heck even Diablo (the first one) is much more complex in combat mechanics than EQ.

 How old are WoW, and Diablo? Do you consider that recent? Ok lets take WoW now as compared to WoW then at least, wouldn't you say they have simplified the skill trees by taking away choices, that yes many players stated were note used in the power builds? Instead of changing skills to make them more usefull which would have opened a bunch of problems to balance they simply removed them and said ok here you can have 1 A, B, or C choice every 10 levels.

Not really, because those were the only meaningful choices you had at that point anyway. You really did not lose anything from the skill trees, they just gave them to you anyway.

I do get where you are coming from to an extent, but especially from a designers perspective the game is much more complicated now than it was at release. The player base through osmosis is much less ignorant now than it was then for starters. Itemization has many more choices to it, and rotation has changed dramatically. I know my first 4 years of WoW all I had as a raiding warlock was spam shadowbolt, which kinda sucked balls honestly.

I did battle with ignorance today, and ignorance won.

To exercise power costs effort and demands courage. That is why so many fail to assert rights to which they are perfectly entitled - because a right is a kind of power but they are too lazy or too cowardly to exercise it. The virtues which cloak these faults are called patience and forbearance.

  Jaedor

Elite Member

Joined: 8/17/09
Posts: 876

1/22/13 3:57:29 PM#115


Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by bunnyhopper Yes they will. Next!
How? When? Certainly not when they are in a city waiting for a dungeon to pop, or in that dungeon doing a 5-man run.

Narius, not everyone hangs out in cities waiting on the next dungeon run or skraid. All those folks would notice.

  Phelcher

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/01/09
Posts: 1133

1/22/13 4:11:51 PM#116
WoW does not have more advanced combat mechanics than EverQuest. Not even close, as Blizzard said themselved in WoW beta when beta testers (mostly eq players) were grillimg the devs on WoW's fisher price mechanics.

Blizzard said it was because their a different target audience and they have less character hooks.

Block, dodge, reposte, fear, blind, levitate, magnify, etc... the list goes on and on with the game mechanics that were missing from WoW. Because the game engine didnt support them.

I think a good many forget that eq was skill based too, along with being level based. And the many skills each class had made for dynamic play.

"No they are not charity. That is where the whales come in. (I play for free. Whales pays.) Devs get a business. That is how it works."


-Nariusseldon

  Phelcher

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/01/09
Posts: 1133

1/22/13 4:13:08 PM#117
You have become better at block(28).. sense heading.. swimming..

"No they are not charity. That is where the whales come in. (I play for free. Whales pays.) Devs get a business. That is how it works."


-Nariusseldon

  User Deleted
1/22/13 4:14:46 PM#118

The gold farmers would definitely notice... 

"Damn, where are all the nodes?" 

  Cecropia

Gumshoe

Joined: 3/06/09
Posts: 3266

Poacher killer.

1/22/13 4:18:33 PM#119
Originally posted by Goatgod76
Originally posted by GrayGhost79 

First I highlighted a key word for you that should help. 

 

No, I don't agree with you. Simple as that lol. They are themeparks, this is what a themepark does. This is why many prefer sandbox games over themeparks.. Sandbox games utilize the world a great deal more and don't tend to do much if any of the themepark type of dungeons and raids. 

 

So... no I don't agree with you. 

GrayGhost79...you are going to get carpel tunnel and still never get anything through to him. Don't bother.

In some thread last week, I kid you not, this member was actually trying to tell another member who wanted a virtual world because he lived in a part of the world where there was little to no nature that he should just go camping to satisfy his needs instead. He was literally arguing with the OP about why he doesn't really need a virtual world.

Mind-blowingly ridiculous.

 

"Chuck's a good fighter but he's a UFC fighter... this is Pride." - Quinton Rampage Jackson
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19524

 
OP  1/22/13 4:36:54 PM#120
Originally posted by Yakkin
Originally posted by nariusseldon

Sure there are other games for that too in other genre (ARPG), but that does not mean that some MMOs are not like that. And if my idea is not popular, why is many doing that in orgrimmar, stormwind, and so on ....

"Insert something about there not being any games that allow for a different approach/incentivize the open world as an alternate solution to being stuck in a lobby."

It is not mutally exclusive. Lots of players do lobby style gameplay is just that. There are also lots playing ps2, a virtually world game.

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