Trending Games | WildStar | Neverwinter | Elder Scrolls Online | Guild Wars 2

  Network:  FPSguru RTSguru
Login:  Password:   Remember?  
Show Quick Gamelist Jump to Random Game
Members:2,640,477 Users Online:0
Games:681  Posts:6,074,995
Recent forum postsRSS
Active threads
Cloud view
List all forums
General Forums
Developers Corner General Discussion
Popular Game Forums
Click a status to find game forum
Game Forums
Click a letter to find game forum
A-C
2029 Online 2112: Revolution 2Moons 4Story 8BitMMO 9 Dragons A Mystical Land A Tale in the Desert III A3 ACE Online ARGO Online Aberoth Absolute Force Online Absolute Terror Achaea Adellion Aerrevan Aetolia, the Midnight Age Age of Armor Age of Conan Age of Empires Online Age of Mourning Age of Wulin Age of Wushu Aida Arenas Aika Aion Albion Online Alganon All Points Bulletin (APB) Allods Online Altis Gates Amazing World Anarchy Online Ancients of Fasaria Andromeda 5 Angels Online Anime Trumps Anmynor Anno Online Applo Arcane Hearts Arcane Legends ArchLord ArcheAge Archeblade Archlord X Asda 2 Asda Story Ashen Empires Asheron's Call Asheron's Call 2 Astera Online Astonia III Astro Empires Astro Lords: Oort CLoud Asura Force Atlantica Online Atriarch Aura Kingdom Aurora Blade Auto Assault Avatar Star Battle Dawn Battle Dawn Galaxies Battle for Graxia Battle of 3 Kingdoms Battle of the Immortals Battlecruiser Online Battlestar Galactica Online Battlestar Reloaded Beyond Protocol Black Aftermath Black Desert Black Gold Black Prophecy Black Prophecy Tactics: Nexus Conflict Blacklight Retribution Blade & Soul Blade Hunter Blade Wars Blazing Throne Bless Blitz 1941 Blood and Jade Bloodlines Champions Bounty Bay Online Brain Storm Brawl Busters. Brick-Force Bright Shadow Bullet Run Business Tycoon Online CTRacer Cabal Online Caesary Call of Camelot Call of Gods Call of Thrones Camelot Unchained Canaan Online Cardmon Hero Cartoon Universe CasinoRPG Castle Empire Castlot Celtic Heroes Champions Online Champions of Regnum Chaos Online Chrono Tales Citadel of Sorcery CitiesXL Citizen Zero City of Decay City of Heroes City of Steam City of Transformers City of Villains Civilization Online Clan Lord Clash of Clans Cloud Nine Club Penguin Colony of War Command & Conquer: Tiberium Alliances Company of Heroes Online Conquer Online Conquer Online 3 Continent of the Ninth (C9) Core Blaze Core Exiles Corum Online Craft of Gods Crimecraft Crimelife 2 Cronous Crota II Cultures Online Cyber Monster 2 Céiron Wars
D-F
D&D Online DC Universe DK Online DOTA DOTA 2 DUST 514 DV8: Exile Dalethaan Dance Groove Online Dark Age of Camelot Dark Ages Dark Legends Dark Orbit Dark Relic: Prelude Dark Solstice Dark and Light DarkEden Online DarkSpace Darkblood Online Darkfall Darkfall: Unholy Wars Darkwind: War on Wheels Das Tal Dawn of Fantasy Dawntide DayZ Dead Earth Dead Frontier Deco Online Deepworld Defiance Deicide Online Dekaron Demons at the Horizon Desert Operations Destiny Diablo 3 Diamonin Digimon Battle Dino Storm Disciple Divergence Divina Divine Souls Dofus Dominus Online Dragon Ball Online Dragon Born Online Dragon Crusade Dragon Empires Dragon Eternity Dragon Nest Dragon Oath Dragon Pals Dragon Raja Dragon's Call Dragon's Call II Dragon's Prophet DragonSky DragonSoul Dragona Dragonica Dragons and Titans Dream of Mirror Online Dreamland Online Dreamlords: The Reawakening Drift City Duels Dungeon Blitz Dungeon Fighter Online Dungeon Overlord Dungeon Party Dungeon Rampage Dungeon Runners Dynastica Dynasty Warriors Online Dynasty of the Magi EIN (Epicus Incognitus) EVE Online Earth Eternal Earth and Beyond Earthrise Eclipse War Ecol Tactics Online Eden Eternal Einherjar - The Viking's Blood Elder Scrolls Online Eldevin Elf Online Elite: Dangerous Embers of Caerus Emil Chronicle Online Empire Empire & State Empire Craft Empire Universe 3 EmpireQuest Empires of Galldon End of Nations Endless Ages Endless Blue Moon Online Endless Online Entropia Universe EpicDuel Erebus: Travia Reborn Eredan Eternal Blade Eternal Lands Eternal Saga Ether Fields Ether Saga Online Eudemons Online EuroGangster EverEmber Online EverQuest Next EverQuest Online Adventures Evernight Everquest Everquest II Everquest Next: Landmark Evony Exarch Exorace F.E.A.R. Online Face of Mankind Fairyland Online Fall of Rome Fallen Earth Fallen Sword Fallout Online Family Guy Online Fantage Fantasy Earth Zero Fantasy Realm Online Fantasy Tales Online Fantasy Worlds: Rhynn Faunasphere Faxion Online Ferentus Ferion Fiesta Online Final Fantasy XI Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn Firefall Fists of Fu Florensia Flyff Football Manager Live Football Superstars Force of Arms Forge Forsaken World Fortnite Fortuna Forum for Discussion of Everlight Freaky Creatures Free Realms Freesky Online Freeworld Fung Wan Online Furcadia Fury Fusion Fall
G-L
GalaXseeds Galactic Command Online Game of Thrones: Seven Kingdoms Gameglobe Gate To Heavens Gates of Andaron Gatheryn Gauntlet Gekkeiju Online Ghost Online Ghost Recon Online Gladiatus Glitch Global Agenda Global Soccer Gloria Victis Glory of Gods GoGoRacer Goal Line Blitz Gods and Heroes GodsWar Online Golemizer Golf Star GoonZu Online Graal Kingdoms Granado Espada Online Grand Chase Grand Fantasia Grepolis Grimlands Guild Wars Guild Wars 2 Guild Wars Factions Guild Wars Nightfall Habbo Hotel Hailan Rising HaloSphere2 Haven & Hearth Hawken Hearthstone: Heroes of Warcraft Helbreath Hellgate Hellgate: London Hello Kitty Online Hero Online Hero Zero Hero's Journey Hero: 108 Online HeroSmash Heroes & Generals Heroes in the Sky Heroes of Bestia Heroes of Gaia Heroes of Might and Magic Online Heroes of Thessalonica Heroes of Three Kingdoms Heroes of the Storm Hex Holic Online Hostile Space Hunter Blade Huxley Illutia Illyriad Immortals USA Imperator Imperian Inferno Legend Infestation: Survivor Stories Infinite Crisis Infinity Infinity Iris Online Iron Grip: Marauders Irth Worlds Island Forge Islands of War Istaria: Chronicles of the Gifted Jade Dynasty Jagged Alliance Online Juggernaut Jumpgate Jumpgate Evolution KAL Online Kakele Online Kaos War Karos Online Kartuga Kicks Online King of Kings 3 Kingdom Heroes Kingdom Under Fire II Kingdom of Drakkar Kingory Kings and Legends KingsRoad Kitsu Saga Kiwarriors Knight Age Knight Online Knights of Dream City Kothuria Kung Foo! Kunlun Online L.A.W. LEGO Universe La Tale Land of Chaos Online Lands of Hope: Phoenix Edition LastChaos League of Angels League of Legends - Clash of Fates Legend of Edda: Vengeance Legend of Golden Plume Legend of Katha Legend of Mir 2 Legend of Mir 3 Legendary Champions Lego Minifigures Online Life is Feudal Light of Nova Lime Odyssey Line of Defense Lineage Lineage Eternal: Twilight Resistance Lineage II Linkrealms Loong Online Lord of the Rings Online Lords Online Lost Saga Lucent Heart Lunia Lusternia: Age of Ascension Luvinia World
M-Q
MU Online Mabinogi Maestia: Rise of Keledus MagiKnights Magic Barrage Magic World Online Manga Fighter MapleStory Martial Heroes Marvel Heroes Marvel Super Hero Squad Online Marvel: Avengers Alliance MechWarrior Online Megaten Meridian 59 : Evolution Merlin MetalMercs Metaplace Metin 2 MicroVolts Midkemia Online Might & Magic Heroes: Kingdoms MilMo Minecraft Mini Fighter Minions of Mirth Ministry of War Monato Esprit Monkey King Online Monkey Quest Monster & Me Monster Madness Online MonsterMMORPG Moonlight Online: Tales of Eternal Blood Mordavia Mortal Online Mourning My Lands Myst Online: URU Live Myth Angels Online Myth War Myth War 2 Mytheon Mythic Saga Mythos N.E.O Online NIDA Online Nadirim Naviage: The Power of Capital Navy Field Need for Speed World Nemexia Neo's Land NeoSteam Neocron Nether Neverwinter Nexus: The Kingdom Of The Winds NinjaTrick NosTale Novus Aeterno Oberin Odin Quest Odyssey RPG Ogre Island Omerta 3 Online Boxing Manager Onverse Order & Chaos Online Order of Magic Original Blood Origins Return Origins of Malu Orion's Belt Otherland Forums OverSoul Overkings Oz Online Oz World Pandora Saga Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen Panzar Parabellum Parallel Kingdom Parfait Station Path of Exile Pathfinder Online Perfect World Perpetuum Online Phantasy Star Online 2 Phantasy Star Universe Phoenix Dynasty Online Phylon Pi Story Picaroon Pirate Galaxy Pirate Storm Pirate101 PirateKing Online Pirates of the Burning Sea Pirates of the Caribbean Online Pixie Hollow Planeshift Planet Arkadia Planet Calypso PlanetSide 2 Planetside Planets³ Playboy Manager Pocket Legends Pockie Ninja Pockie Pirates Pockie Saints PoxNora Prime World Prime: Battle for Dominus Priston Tale Priston Tale II Prius Online Project Blackout Project Powder Project Titan Forums Project Wiki Puzzle Pirates Quickhit Football
R-S
R2 Online RAN Online RF Online ROSE Online Rage of 3 Kingdoms Ragnarok Online Ragnarok Online II RaiderZ Rakion Rappelz RappelzSEA Realm Fighter Realm of the Mad God Realm of the Titans Realms Online Reclamation Red Stone Red War: Edem's Curse Regnum Online Remnant Knights Renaissance Repulse Requiem: Memento Mori Rift RiotZone Rise Rise of Dragonian Era Rise of Empire Rise of the Tycoon Rising of King Risk Your Life Rivality Rockfree Rohan: Blood Feud Role Play Worlds Roll n Rock Roma Victor Romadoria Rosh Online Roto X Rubies of Eventide Ruin Online Rumble Fighter Runes of Magic Runescape Rust Rusty Hearts Ryzom S4 League SAGA SD Gundam Capsule Fighter Online SMITE SUN Sagramore Salem SaySayGirls Scarlet Blade Scions of Fate Seal Online: Evolution Second Life Secret of the Solstice Seed Serenia Fantasy Seven Seas Saga Seven Souls Online Sevencore Shadow of Legend Shadowbane Shadowrun Online Shaiya Shattered Galaxy Sho Online Shot Online Shroud of the Avatar SideQuest Siege on Stars Sigonyth: Desert Eternity Silkroad Online Skyblade Skyforge SmashMuck Champions Smoo Online Soldier Front Soul Master Soul Order Online Soul of Guardian Space Heroes Universe Spellcasters Sphere Spiral Knights Spirit Tales Splash Fighters Squad Wars Star Citizen Star Sonata 2 Star Stable Star Supremacy Star Trek Online Star Trek: Infinite Space Star Wars Galaxies Star Wars: Clone Wars Adventures Star Wars: The Old Republic StarQuest Online Stargate Worlds Starlight Story Starpires State of Decay SteelWar Online Stone Age 2 Storybricks Stronghold Kingdoms Sudden Attack Supremacy 1914 Supreme Destiny Sword Girls Sword of Destiny: Rise of Aions SwordX Swords of Heavens Swordsman
T-Z
TERA TS Online Tabula Rasa Tactica Online Tales Runner Tales of Fantasy Tales of Pirates Tales of Pirates II Tales of Solaris Talisman Online Tamer Saga Tank Ace Tantra Online Tatsumaki: Land at War Terra Militaris TerraWorld Online Thang Online The 4th Coming The Agency The Aurora World The Black Watchmen The Chronicle The Chronicles of Spellborn The Crew The Division The Hammers End The Legend of Ares The Lost Titans The Matrix Online The Mighty Quest for Epic Loot The Missing Ink The Mummy Online The Myth of Soma The Pride of Taern The Realm Online The Repopulation The Secret World The Sims Online The Strategems The West Theralon There Therian Saga Thrones of Chaos Tibia Tibia Micro Edition Tiger Knight Titan Siege Titans of Time Toontown Online Top Speed Topia Online Torchlight Total Domination Transformers Universe Traveller AR Travia Online Travian Trials of Ascension Tribal Hero Tribal Wars Tribes Universe Trickster Online Trove Troy Online True Fantasy Live Online Turf Battles Twelve Sky Twelve Sky 2 Twilight War Tynon U.B. Funkeys UFO Online URDEAD Online Ultima Forever: Quest for the Avatar Ultima Online Ultima X: Odyssey Ultimate Naruto Ultimate Soccer Boss Uncharted Waters Online Undercover 2: Merc Wars Underlight Unification Wars Universe Online Utopia Valkyrie Sky Vampire Lord Online Vanguard: Saga of Heroes Vanquish Space Vector City Racers Vendetta Online Victory - Age of Racing Vindictus Virtonomics Vis Gladius Visions of Zosimos VoidExpanse Voyage Century Online W.E.L.L. Online WAR (Warhammer Online) WAR2 Glory WYD Global Wakfu War Thunder War of 2012 War of Angels War of Legends War of Mercenaries War of Thrones War of the Immortals WarFlow Waren Story Wargame1942 Warhammer 40,000: Eternal Crusade Warhammer 40K: Dark Millennium Online Warhammer Online: Wrath of Heroes Warkeepers Warrior Epic Wartune WebLords Wild West Online WildStar Wind of Luck WindSlayer 2 Wings of Destiny Wish Wizard101 Wizardry Online Wizards and Champions Wonder King Wonderland Online World Golf Tour World of Battles World of Darkness World of Heroes World of Kung Fu World of Pirates World of Speed World of Tanks World of Tanks Generals World of Warcraft World of Warplanes World of Warships World of the Living Dead WorldAlpha Wurm Online Xenocell Xiah Xsyon Xulu YS Online Yitien ZU Online Zentia Zero Online Zero Online: The Andromeda Crisis Zodiac Online Zombies Ate My Pizza eRepublik

MMORPG.com Discussion Forums

General Discussion

General Discussion 

The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » A day and night cycle makes mmos feel more alive. Also no more on rails themeparks!

4 Pages « 1 2 3 4 » Search
74 posts found
  Kaisen_Dexx

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/25/06
Posts: 282

1/21/13 5:22:06 PM#21
I remember when I first started playing Dragon's Dogma. I was amazed and invigorated by the limited carrying capacity, and the real sense of danger just travelling had (especially at night). Unfortunately, later on, you became powerful and supplied enough that the world became almost trivial, with the exception of a few bosses. The sad part about that is the fans (and later the developers) have decided that the answer to that was Fast Travel, as opposed to fixing the root of the problem. And it sounds like the next game in the series will feature fast travel. That severely disappoints me, especially because it parallels what I saw happen with the MMORPG genre. As opposed to figuring out why said mechanic was broken or boring, they created systems to streamline and bypass those mechanics. This removed a lot of potential complexity and layered gameplay elements that has created the feeling of staleness and stagnation.

 

A prime example of this is the evolution of questing. Camping mobs in EverQuest got boring after awhile, and instead of finding ways to improve the combat experience, the next game added linear quest-lines to give focus to the players and attempt to keep them engaged doing the same boring thing. Turns out, that got repetitve and boring after awhile. The next step was merely ramping up the experience gain to streamline progression and attempt to keep people interested. This streamlined effect is fairly noticible nowadays when you look at the circular zone design EverQuest had and contrast it to more modern MMOs, where it is literally point A to point B to point C, etc.

 

I'd love to see more gameplay layers return to the MMORPG. I'd love to see very limited carrying capacity, where it is essential that you carry supplies such as a torch, or food and water, where running out of supplies would have dire effects on your gaming experience. I'd love to see parties less about using renewable resources such as mana for restoration, and have to share consumables as the need arises. In short, I'd love to see more to MMOs than just avoiding red circles on the ground.

  Amathe

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/02/05
Posts: 1666

1/21/13 5:36:53 PM#22

Not only did EQ have day/night cycles AND weather, but, depending on whether it was day or night, different monsters may be out and about in some zones.

 

I loved this.  It definitely made the world seem more like a world, and it was cool.  But I suppose Devs scrap it for the same reason all the water in the new mmo worlds is 6 inches deep, even the oceans.  They are cheap.  They are lazy.  And they wouldn't know fun if it bit them in the ass.  

EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests

  Yamota

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/05/03
Posts: 6384

There's a beast within every man that stirs when you put a sword in his hand

1/21/13 5:43:33 PM#23

Lack of onrails themeparks. Yeah, unfourtunately that is what a lot of us are hoping for but for some reason the devs are keep pushing out that very thing. I guess it is just more profitable to create a shortlived ThemePark rather than a solid sandbox which retains more people.

What we need is one big sandbox which proves that you can create a profitable triple A sandbox title. And no, Eve is not it. Spaceship/spreadsheet, FFA PvP where you are a ship will never attract a large selection of people. Not that 400k subs is bad but considering the total MMO playerbase is 10-15 million, it is not a very big part, and a lot of people in Eve have multiple accounts. More so than in other MMOs.

  Kilmaul

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/03/12
Posts: 38

1/21/13 5:45:57 PM#24
Originally posted by Amathe

Not only did EQ have day/night cycles AND weather, but, depending on whether it was day or night, different monsters may be out and about in some zones.

 

I loved this.  It definitely made the world seem more like a world, and it was cool.  But I suppose Devs scrap it for the same reason all the water in the new mmo worlds is 6 inches deep, even the oceans.  They are cheap.  They are lazy.  And they wouldn't know fun if it bit them in the ass.  

Yeah Kithicor Forest or something.  Anyone could run through during the day without hassle.  At night you better have a SoW and stick to the edge of the zone.  Good times lol.  :D

  Yamota

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/05/03
Posts: 6384

There's a beast within every man that stirs when you put a sword in his hand

1/21/13 5:54:45 PM#25
Originally posted by Kaisen_Dexx
I remember when I first started playing Dragon's Dogma. I was amazed and invigorated by the limited carrying capacity, and the real sense of danger just travelling had (especially at night). Unfortunately, later on, you became powerful and supplied enough that the world became almost trivial, with the exception of a few bosses. The sad part about that is the fans (and later the developers) have decided that the answer to that was Fast Travel, as opposed to fixing the root of the problem. And it sounds like the next game in the series will feature fast travel. That severely disappoints me, especially because it parallels what I saw happen with the MMORPG genre. As opposed to figuring out why said mechanic was broken or boring, they created systems to streamline and bypass those mechanics. This removed a lot of potential complexity and layered gameplay elements that has created the feeling of staleness and stagnation.

 

A prime example of this is the evolution of questing. Camping mobs in EverQuest got boring after awhile, and instead of finding ways to improve the combat experience, the next game added linear quest-lines to give focus to the players and attempt to keep them engaged doing the same boring thing. Turns out, that got repetitve and boring after awhile. The next step was merely ramping up the experience gain to streamline progression and attempt to keep people interested. This streamlined effect is fairly noticible nowadays when you look at the circular zone design EverQuest had and contrast it to more modern MMOs, where it is literally point A to point B to point C, etc.

 

I'd love to see more gameplay layers return to the MMORPG. I'd love to see very limited carrying capacity, where it is essential that you carry supplies such as a torch, or food and water, where running out of supplies would have dire effects on your gaming experience. I'd love to see parties less about using renewable resources such as mana for restoration, and have to share consumables as the need arises. In short, I'd love to see more to MMOs than just avoiding red circles on the ground.

What you are talking about is virtual world MMOs and those are, unfourtunately, more or less extinct. You got some indy-devs creating sub-par virtual world MMOs but those are just simply bad.

Quest hubs, as main source of advancing your character, is the main "feature" which dealt the main blow to virtual worlds. Instead of exploring and adventuring to advance your character you simply go to NPC with glowie on head and then go to glowies on map, completely by-passing exploration and adventuring.

GW 2, instead of getting rid of that, simply made the quest hubs mobile and not needing to click on glowie to get the quest but everything else is pretty much the same. It is cleverly hiding the quest hub but it is still there, just disguised and called "dynamic" quests.

I think the genre has reached a dead end and instead of going back and finding another way, it is just keep bumping their heads into the dead end, which are meaningless quests, and finding new ways of giving you meaningless quests.

The concept of creating a virtual world where you need to explore and find your place in it and figure out how to be successful is, I guess, considered a failed model by triple A devs. Why I am not sure but I guess they didnt feel SWG, EQ 1, AC and UO were profitable enough. They seem to go more for a model where they have big initial sales, like non MMOs, and then some bonus profit from a few months of subs. and/or selling trinkets in the cash shop.

The genre has become big bussiness and there is apparently no big bussiness in virtual world MMOs...

  Rydeson

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/05/07
Posts: 3114

1/21/13 6:16:28 PM#26
I miss the day/night cycles..   Not the real time cycle that WoW does, but something similar to what EQ did... I want to experience multiple days and nights while playing.. Furthermore the difference between day night need to be severe, not just a small tone change..  I love how EQ racials made a difference in sight.. Oh well, that was the good ole days..
  dave6660

Elite Member

Joined: 9/26/08
Posts: 2266

"Next time I see you, remind me not to talk to you."

1/21/13 6:22:53 PM#27
Originally posted by Theocritus
Originally posted by dave6660
Originally posted by Torgrim
Most MMOs have day and night cycle.

Yes but how many of them actually utilitize it for something other than aesthetics?

      EQ was the only one I remember where the night/day cycle really mattered...There were certain zones where you didn't want to be at night for example......

A handful of others did too.  FFXI used day / night and weather effectively.  I think Vanguard did too but it's been a long time since I played so I don't remember much about it.

"Why so serious?"
-- The Joker

  Arclan

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 1/29/07
Posts: 1174

Ideas are worthless. The only currency that holds any weight is the ability and drive to execute.

1/22/13 1:02:48 PM#28


Originally posted by Rydeson
... not just a small tone change..  I love how EQ racials made a difference in sight.. Oh well, that was the good ole days..

Indeed. FYI for others. Back in the day, infravision was a major advantage; and ultravision was even moreso. But today, even the most blind Erud can see better and farther at night than dark elves (ultravision) back in 1999/2000/2001. LAME!

I'm not going to a party full of clowns (F2P), then offer to buy them all drinks. -GregorMcgregor

Playing: XCom, Rome Total War, Master of Orion II, Majesty 2, and HOMM I.
Played: Everquest, Planetside, Vanguard, Pirates of the Burning Sea, EVE, UO.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 17944

1/22/13 1:19:44 PM#29
Originally posted by Yamota

Quest hubs, as main source of advancing your character, is the main "feature" which dealt the main blow to virtual worlds. Instead of exploring and adventuring to advance your character you simply go to NPC with glowie on head and then go to glowies on map, completely by-passing exploration and adventuring.

GW 2, instead of getting rid of that, simply made the quest hubs mobile and not needing to click on glowie to get the quest but everything else is pretty much the same. It is cleverly hiding the quest hub but it is still there, just disguised and called "dynamic" quests.

I think the genre has reached a dead end and instead of going back and finding another way, it is just keep bumping their heads into the dead end, which are meaningless quests, and finding new ways of giving you meaningless quests.

The concept of creating a virtual world where you need to explore and find your place in it and figure out how to be successful is, I guess, considered a failed model by triple A devs. Why I am not sure but I guess they didnt feel SWG, EQ 1, AC and UO were profitable enough. They seem to go more for a model where they have big initial sales, like non MMOs, and then some bonus profit from a few months of subs. and/or selling trinkets in the cash shop.

The genre has become big bussiness and there is apparently no big bussiness in virtual world MMOs...

No that is innovation. They no longer need teh old idea of a virtual world. They are brave enough to take risk and do something different.

And it makes a better game, so much the better.

Dynamic quest .. hiding the quest hub .. is another way to make questing seemless.

The point is this .. the fun part of the gameplay to many .. is combat and the meta game surrounding it (AH, gear optimization ...), and not a scavenger hunt of where the quest item is. If people like to hunt for items, spoiler sites would not be so popular, and add-ons that point the way would not be so popular.

Quests are just excuses to kill things.

  Goatgod76

Novice Member

Joined: 6/24/06
Posts: 1226

1/22/13 1:46:08 PM#30
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Yamota

Quest hubs, as main source of advancing your character, is the main "feature" which dealt the main blow to virtual worlds. Instead of exploring and adventuring to advance your character you simply go to NPC with glowie on head and then go to glowies on map, completely by-passing exploration and adventuring.

GW 2, instead of getting rid of that, simply made the quest hubs mobile and not needing to click on glowie to get the quest but everything else is pretty much the same. It is cleverly hiding the quest hub but it is still there, just disguised and called "dynamic" quests.

I think the genre has reached a dead end and instead of going back and finding another way, it is just keep bumping their heads into the dead end, which are meaningless quests, and finding new ways of giving you meaningless quests.

The concept of creating a virtual world where you need to explore and find your place in it and figure out how to be successful is, I guess, considered a failed model by triple A devs. Why I am not sure but I guess they didnt feel SWG, EQ 1, AC and UO were profitable enough. They seem to go more for a model where they have big initial sales, like non MMOs, and then some bonus profit from a few months of subs. and/or selling trinkets in the cash shop.

The genre has become big bussiness and there is apparently no big bussiness in virtual world MMOs...

No that is innovation. They no longer need teh old idea of a virtual world. They are brave enough to take risk and do something different.

And it makes a better game, so much the better.

Dynamic quest .. hiding the quest hub .. is another way to make questing seemless.

The point is this .. the fun part of the gameplay to many .. is combat and the meta game surrounding it (AH, gear optimization ...), and not a scavenger hunt of where the quest item is. If people like to hunt for items, spoiler sites would not be so popular, and add-ons that point the way would not be so popular.

Quests are just excuses to kill things.

LOL! Ok...I was trying to give you the benefit of the doubt in many posts, but now I am convinced you are completely clueless as to what a MMORPG is. You are asking for lobby games and console-like games. Quick fun, easy access. Although all MMORPG's offer these features in marginal amounts...they are NOT built around these concepts...or meant to be anyways...hence, why it is a different genre from lobby games and console games. MMORPG's are meant to be worlds for players to explore, interact, and take at their own pace...with MANY options to participate in and enjoy.

But...eh, why bother...you are not trying to hear and comprehend what you need to. You just want them to be what you want them to be...hell with everyone else right? Sigh...

  Istavaan

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/25/12
Posts: 1398

1/22/13 1:48:39 PM#31
Originally posted by ShakyMo
Wow has a night and day cycle.

Swtor hasn't, but its not the only thing that makes it unimersive. Cloned npcs, lack of critters, corridory design, heavy instancing etc..

wow has a 24 hour day/night cycle so you never see the transition from day to night. might aswell not have one.

  Istavaan

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/25/12
Posts: 1398

1/22/13 1:52:24 PM#32
Originally posted by Psychow
Originally posted by evemaster00

UO had a day/night cycle, Everquest did. I believe even DaoC did? Why is it all the old classics used day and night cycles yet most mmos today don't bother with it?

I wonder if it's because WoW doesn't have one, and wow is supposedly popular, so developers stopped thinking it mattered. I played UO, EQ, and DaoC, and I felt a stronger connection with these games and played these games for far longer than any other mmo i've played. (Except for EVE online, which i've also played for a very long time).

I guess all of the above mmos have one primary thing in common - they are not story driven themeparks. I don't know if EQ is now or not, I haven't played it for a decade. EVE is tthe only one without a day/night cycle, but that's a mute point because EVE takes places in space.

I think now I realize what makes me feel so bored with WoW that i can't stand playing it. It was the first MMO that I know off that sent you down a predetermined path from the start of the game to the very end through a on rails questing system. Que Blizzards constant boasts of subscription numbers, everyone tried to copy them  = Blizzard ruined mmos.

 

You're right. Without stupid Blizzard / WoW the MMO genre would be basking in it's 500K membership of awesomness with only a few released games. It'd have beeen amazing!! Damn you Blizzard!!

well you can only play with 5k players per server so 500k is enough. but i guess you like wow becuase it has over 99999999999 players.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 17944

1/22/13 1:56:14 PM#33
Originally posted by Goatgod76
 

LOL! Ok...I was trying to give you the benefit of the doubt in many posts, but now I am convinced you are completely clueless as to what a MMORPG is. You are asking for lobby games and console-like games. Quick fun, easy access. Although all MMORPG's offer these features in marginal amounts...they are NOT built around these concepts...or meant to be anyways...hence, why it is a different genre from lobby games and console games. MMORPG's are meant to be worlds for players to explore, interact, and take at their own pace...with MANY options to participate in and enjoy.

But...eh, why bother...you are not trying to hear and comprehend what you need to. You just want them to be what you want them to be...hell with everyone else right? Sigh...

See .. that is the misconception. MMOs are just games. They are not meant for anything, and the devs can take them anyway they want to.

Don't you agree that many MMOs are like lobby games? WOW LFD, LFR raid, Battle ground ....

Don't tell me you don't know that. And if people want to play MMO like that .. why shouldn't they? Would you be happier if WOW is called a lobby game instead? It is just a label, you know.

And i am just making an observation. Tell me it is not true, with a straight face, that many play MMOs like a lobby game. What i want is irrelevant of whether MMOs are becoming more lobby games.

  Goatgod76

Novice Member

Joined: 6/24/06
Posts: 1226

1/22/13 2:05:06 PM#34
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Goatgod76
 

LOL! Ok...I was trying to give you the benefit of the doubt in many posts, but now I am convinced you are completely clueless as to what a MMORPG is. You are asking for lobby games and console-like games. Quick fun, easy access. Although all MMORPG's offer these features in marginal amounts...they are NOT built around these concepts...or meant to be anyways...hence, why it is a different genre from lobby games and console games. MMORPG's are meant to be worlds for players to explore, interact, and take at their own pace...with MANY options to participate in and enjoy.

But...eh, why bother...you are not trying to hear and comprehend what you need to. You just want them to be what you want them to be...hell with everyone else right? Sigh...

See .. that is the misconception. MMOs are just games. They are not meant for anything, and the devs can take them anyway they want to.

Don't you agree that many MMOs are like lobby games? WOW LFD, LFR raid, Battle ground ....

Don't tell me you don't know that. And if people want to play MMO like that .. why shouldn't they? Would you be happier if WOW is called a lobby game instead? It is just a label, you know.

And i am just making an observation. Tell me it is not true, with a straight face, that many play MMOs like a lobby game. What i want is irrelevant of whether MMOs are becoming more lobby games.

I don't disagree a lot of people like lobby games. What you are misunderstanding is the difference between MMO and MMORPG. And you continuously push your agenda of making them all MMO lobby games no matter the thread is my point. Especially if they mention anything that has to do with not having them the way you insist on them being. There are plenty of lobby games already...must they ALL be that way? Again, it's what you constantly seem to be peddling.

The thread is about day and night cycle, as well as discussion on them not all being hand held themeparks. If you have nothing of use to contribute to the topic of the thread...just pass the thread by. How hard is that really.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 17944

1/22/13 2:12:19 PM#35
Originally posted by Goatgod76
 

I don't disagree a lot of people like lobby games. What you are misunderstanding is the difference between MMO and MMORPG. And you continuously push your agenda of making them all MMO lobby games no matter the thread is my point. Especially if they mention anything that has to do with not having them the way you insist on them being. There are plenty of lobby games already...must they ALL be that way? Again, it's what you constantly seem to be peddling.

 

How do i "make" anything? And it is obviously not all of them are lobby game. You forget PS2, and Eve?

But don't you think there is a larger point? Many (but not all) MMOs are lobby games because like you say "a lot of people like lobby games" .. and it shows that they are games, not world simulation.

Which is relevant to this thread .. is a day night cycle make a game more fun?

  Goatgod76

Novice Member

Joined: 6/24/06
Posts: 1226

1/22/13 2:42:54 PM#36
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Goatgod76
 

I don't disagree a lot of people like lobby games. What you are misunderstanding is the difference between MMO and MMORPG. And you continuously push your agenda of making them all MMO lobby games no matter the thread is my point. Especially if they mention anything that has to do with not having them the way you insist on them being. There are plenty of lobby games already...must they ALL be that way? Again, it's what you constantly seem to be peddling.

 

How do i "make" anything? And it is obviously not all of them are lobby game. You forget PS2, and Eve?

But don't you think there is a larger point? Many (but not all) MMOs are lobby games because like you say "a lot of people like lobby games" .. and it shows that they are games, not world simulation.

Which is relevant to this thread .. is a day night cycle make a game more fun?

Quit taking everything so literally. I forgot the word "trying" before the red highlighted part....but shouldn't be that difficult to comprehend...so I thought anyways.

Day and Night makes it more "immersive" for those that enjoy that element...which (IMO) is mainly players who played since the genre's birth (MMORPG's that is) when those features, as well as others,  were a large portion of them.

Sadly...yes...most player's only seem to care about getting their fun now now now. And want stat and leader boards to gloat over and fight to be #1 of...and show off leet gear. ALL elements that already exist in other genres....FPS games or console fighting games. And it's ok to have those kinds of games.....in their own genre/category, NOT in the MMORPG genre calling themselves MMORPG's.

Why people want to keep stuffing features from one genre into another until neither is recognizeable as a unique genre is beyond me. Not saying it isn't a good thing to add features from one to the other at times...but man,  there can be such a thing as too much.


 

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 17944

1/22/13 2:49:04 PM#37
Originally posted by Goatgod76

Sadly...yes...most player's only seem to care about getting their fun now now now. And want stat and leader boards to gloat over and fight to be #1 of...and show off leet gear. ALL elements that already exist in other genres....FPS games or console fighting games. And it's ok to have those kinds of games.....in their own genre/category, NOT in the MMORPG genre calling themselves MMORPG's.

Why people want to keep stuffing features from one genre into another until neither is recognizeable as a unique genre is beyond me. Not saying it isn't a good thing to add features from one to the other at times...but man,  there can be such a thing as too much.


 

hmm .. i am not sure what else a gamer should care about. It is entertainment, not ethical or moral issues. And you seem to be very adamant about how a genre should be defined. Why? A genre is just a collection of games. Genre alway changes and evolve. There is no reason why we should stick to the old way.

And i am a big proponent of using good ideas, and disregard genre boundaries. Look at games like Borderland 1 & 2 .. it is so much fun precisely because it is a mix of FPS and RPG. Look at Dead Space? Not a pure action title. Not a pure horror title but hell of a fun game.

There is no reason why MMORPG should be shackled by its past. Do you think it will be even 1/10 as popular if the EQ camping problem is not fixed? And if it changes a lot .. so be it .. as long as the games are still fun.

  Goatgod76

Novice Member

Joined: 6/24/06
Posts: 1226

1/22/13 2:57:18 PM#38
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Goatgod76

Sadly...yes...most player's only seem to care about getting their fun now now now. And want stat and leader boards to gloat over and fight to be #1 of...and show off leet gear. ALL elements that already exist in other genres....FPS games or console fighting games. And it's ok to have those kinds of games.....in their own genre/category, NOT in the MMORPG genre calling themselves MMORPG's.

Why people want to keep stuffing features from one genre into another until neither is recognizeable as a unique genre is beyond me. Not saying it isn't a good thing to add features from one to the other at times...but man,  there can be such a thing as too much.


 

hmm .. i am not sure what else a gamer should care about. It is entertainment, not ethical or moral issues. And you seem to be very adamant about how a genre should be defined. Why? A genre is just a collection of games. Genre alway changes and evolve. There is no reason why we should stick to the old way.

And i am a big proponent of using good ideas, and disregard genre boundaries. Look at games like Borderland 1 & 2 .. it is so much fun precisely because it is a mix of FPS and RPG. Look at Dead Space? Not a pure action title. Not a pure horror title but hell of a fun game.

There is no reason why MMORPG should be shackled by its past. Do you think it will be even 1/10 as popular if the EQ camping problem is not fixed? And if it changes a lot .. so be it .. as long as the games are still fun.

Sigh....why bother.

  jimdandy26

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/28/12
Posts: 559

1/22/13 3:04:54 PM#39
Originally posted by Goatgod76
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Goatgod76

Sadly...yes...most player's only seem to care about getting their fun now now now. And want stat and leader boards to gloat over and fight to be #1 of...and show off leet gear. ALL elements that already exist in other genres....FPS games or console fighting games. And it's ok to have those kinds of games.....in their own genre/category, NOT in the MMORPG genre calling themselves MMORPG's.

Why people want to keep stuffing features from one genre into another until neither is recognizeable as a unique genre is beyond me. Not saying it isn't a good thing to add features from one to the other at times...but man,  there can be such a thing as too much.


 

hmm .. i am not sure what else a gamer should care about. It is entertainment, not ethical or moral issues. And you seem to be very adamant about how a genre should be defined. Why? A genre is just a collection of games. Genre alway changes and evolve. There is no reason why we should stick to the old way.

And i am a big proponent of using good ideas, and disregard genre boundaries. Look at games like Borderland 1 & 2 .. it is so much fun precisely because it is a mix of FPS and RPG. Look at Dead Space? Not a pure action title. Not a pure horror title but hell of a fun game.

There is no reason why MMORPG should be shackled by its past. Do you think it will be even 1/10 as popular if the EQ camping problem is not fixed? And if it changes a lot .. so be it .. as long as the games are still fun.

Sigh....why bother.

You shouldn't because he is correct.

I did battle with ignorance today, and ignorance won.

To exercise power costs effort and demands courage. That is why so many fail to assert rights to which they are perfectly entitled - because a right is a kind of power but they are too lazy or too cowardly to exercise it. The virtues which cloak these faults are called patience and forbearance.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 17944

1/22/13 3:05:18 PM#40
Originally posted by Goatgod76
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Goatgod76

Sadly...yes...most player's only seem to care about getting their fun now now now. And want stat and leader boards to gloat over and fight to be #1 of...and show off leet gear. ALL elements that already exist in other genres....FPS games or console fighting games. And it's ok to have those kinds of games.....in their own genre/category, NOT in the MMORPG genre calling themselves MMORPG's.

Why people want to keep stuffing features from one genre into another until neither is recognizeable as a unique genre is beyond me. Not saying it isn't a good thing to add features from one to the other at times...but man,  there can be such a thing as too much.


 

hmm .. i am not sure what else a gamer should care about. It is entertainment, not ethical or moral issues. And you seem to be very adamant about how a genre should be defined. Why? A genre is just a collection of games. Genre alway changes and evolve. There is no reason why we should stick to the old way.

And i am a big proponent of using good ideas, and disregard genre boundaries. Look at games like Borderland 1 & 2 .. it is so much fun precisely because it is a mix of FPS and RPG. Look at Dead Space? Not a pure action title. Not a pure horror title but hell of a fun game.

There is no reason why MMORPG should be shackled by its past. Do you think it will be even 1/10 as popular if the EQ camping problem is not fixed? And if it changes a lot .. so be it .. as long as the games are still fun.

Sigh....why bother.

No more arguments? You agree that games should be fun to the players, and should not rigidly adhere to what genre it is supposed to be in?

4 Pages « 1 2 3 4 » Search