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News & Features Discussion  » Defiance: Preorder Bonuses Detailed

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37 posts found
  strangiato2112

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 9/21/12
Posts: 1566

1/21/13 8:56:30 PM#21

B2P is not a good sign at all.

 

Company is behind the p2p model, even so much so that a game that is performing modestly at best remains p2p.

B2P is an admission they dont think the game warrants a sub.

 

And before people scream GW2, Arenanet knew they would deal with heavy volume.  Im assuming Trion isnt stupid and knows their game will have niche appeal, so they have no shot at the volume of GW2.  Small target audience + b2P = where is the $ going to come from?

  Vannor

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/11/03
Posts: 2992

1/21/13 9:05:10 PM#22
Originally posted by strangiato2112

B2P is not a good sign at all.

Company is behind the p2p model, even so much so that a game that is performing modestly at best remains p2p.

B2P is an admission they dont think the game warrants a sub.

And before people scream GW2, Arenanet knew they would deal with heavy volume.  Im assuming Trion isnt stupid and knows their game will have niche appeal, so they have no shot at the volume of GW2.  Small target audience + b2P = where is the $ going to come from?

They plan to have a DLC schedule though.. like Borderlands 2. GW2 and TSW don't release DLC.. yet.

I personally think that anyone who likes Borderlands will probably get some joy from Defiance. If it gets a good chunk of that audience it should do pretty well.

  strangiato2112

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 9/21/12
Posts: 1566

1/21/13 9:16:19 PM#23
Originally posted by Vannor
Originally posted by strangiato2112

B2P is not a good sign at all.

Company is behind the p2p model, even so much so that a game that is performing modestly at best remains p2p.

B2P is an admission they dont think the game warrants a sub.

And before people scream GW2, Arenanet knew they would deal with heavy volume.  Im assuming Trion isnt stupid and knows their game will have niche appeal, so they have no shot at the volume of GW2.  Small target audience + b2P = where is the $ going to come from?

They plan to have a DLC schedule though.. like Borderlands 2. GW2 and TSW don't release DLC.. yet.

I personally think that anyone who likes Borderlands will probably get some joy from Defiance. If it gets a good chunk of that audience it should do pretty well.

to be fair, I didnt consider the console angle.

Console gamers will not go for p2p, so b2p could be more for them.

 

Its a tricky spot.  Game isnt MMORPG enough to really appeal to that crowd, but its being associated with MMORPGs which may put off the Borderlands crowd.

 

Its all speculation until it actually releases though, will be evry interesting to see how it does.

  Kreedz

Novice Member

Joined: 5/11/11
Posts: 445

1/21/13 9:31:12 PM#24
Originally posted by strangiato2112

B2P is not a good sign at all.

 

Company is behind the p2p model, even so much so that a game that is performing modestly at best remains p2p.

B2P is an admission they dont think the game warrants a sub.

 

And before people scream GW2, Arenanet knew they would deal with heavy volume.  Im assuming Trion isnt stupid and knows their game will have niche appeal, so they have no shot at the volume of GW2.  Small target audience + b2P = where is the $ going to come from?

Such a niave post.

 

Get with the times buddy, Subscriptions are a dying breed, the reason Developers are switching to a B2P model is because they realise the revenue potential from selling cosmetic items and little goodies like lockboxes.

And yes, you guessed it, I'm mentioning GW2 as a comparison (at least for myself) here. I'm sure I've spent more than $15 a month on GW2 in the last 4 months, hell just last month I spent over $70 for convience items, and its not because I'm stupid or lazy (okay maybe just a little) but it's because I have disposable income, and not being tied down with a sub fee, gives me the freedom to get what I want out of the game... Maybe its not always 'worth it' for the amount I pay, but It's giving me control of that choice to me.

"The problem with quotes from the Internet is that it's almost impossible to validate their authenticity." - Abraham Lincoln

  bingbongbros

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/21/10
Posts: 578

1/21/13 10:02:23 PM#25
anyone who actually played the game this last weekend knows the game isnt worth a damn cent if it launches in this condition.

Playing: Smite
Played: Nexus:Kingdom of the Winds, Everquest, DAoC, Everquest 2, WoW, Matrix Online, Vangaurd, SWG, DDO, EVE, Fallen Earth, LoTRo, CoX, Champions Online, WAR, Darkfall, Mortal Online, Guild Wars, Rift, Tera, Aion, AoC, Gods and Heroes, DCUO, FF14, TSW, SWTOR, GW2, Wildstar, ESO
Waiting On: Nothing really, though Black Desert looks pretty amazing so far.

  Chrisbox

Elite Member

Joined: 7/15/10
Posts: 1485

1/21/13 10:39:23 PM#26
Originally posted by Kreedz
Originally posted by strangiato2112

B2P is not a good sign at all.

 

Company is behind the p2p model, even so much so that a game that is performing modestly at best remains p2p.

B2P is an admission they dont think the game warrants a sub.

 

And before people scream GW2, Arenanet knew they would deal with heavy volume.  Im assuming Trion isnt stupid and knows their game will have niche appeal, so they have no shot at the volume of GW2.  Small target audience + b2P = where is the $ going to come from?

Such a niave post.

 

Get with the times buddy, Subscriptions are a dying breed, the reason Developers are switching to a B2P model is because they realise the revenue potential from selling cosmetic items and little goodies like lockboxes.

And yes, you guessed it, I'm mentioning GW2 as a comparison (at least for myself) here. I'm sure I've spent more than $15 a month on GW2 in the last 4 months, hell just last month I spent over $70 for convience items, and its not because I'm stupid or lazy (okay maybe just a little) but it's because I have disposable income, and not being tied down with a sub fee, gives me the freedom to get what I want out of the game... Maybe its not always 'worth it' for the amount I pay, but It's giving me control of that choice to me.

You claim subscriptions are a dying breed....( looks at WoW Rift EvE and other games being payed for by tons of people)......lul.  Honestly its come to the point where if a game is free or b2p its usually not worth your time, or wont keep you interested long enough to actual want to progress through constantly.  I thought GW2 would break that barrier, and it did to a slight extent, but in the end my theory stood correct.

Played-Everything
Playing-FFXIV:ARR,AA

  bingbongbros

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/21/10
Posts: 578

1/21/13 10:45:22 PM#27
Originally posted by Chrisbox
Originally posted by Kreedz
Originally posted by strangiato2112

B2P is not a good sign at all.

 

Company is behind the p2p model, even so much so that a game that is performing modestly at best remains p2p.

B2P is an admission they dont think the game warrants a sub.

 

And before people scream GW2, Arenanet knew they would deal with heavy volume.  Im assuming Trion isnt stupid and knows their game will have niche appeal, so they have no shot at the volume of GW2.  Small target audience + b2P = where is the $ going to come from?

Such a niave post.

 

Get with the times buddy, Subscriptions are a dying breed, the reason Developers are switching to a B2P model is because they realise the revenue potential from selling cosmetic items and little goodies like lockboxes.

And yes, you guessed it, I'm mentioning GW2 as a comparison (at least for myself) here. I'm sure I've spent more than $15 a month on GW2 in the last 4 months, hell just last month I spent over $70 for convience items, and its not because I'm stupid or lazy (okay maybe just a little) but it's because I have disposable income, and not being tied down with a sub fee, gives me the freedom to get what I want out of the game... Maybe its not always 'worth it' for the amount I pay, but It's giving me control of that choice to me.

You claim subscriptions are a dying breed....( looks at WoW Rift EvE and other games being payed for by tons of people)......lul.  Honestly its come to the point where if a game is free or b2p its usually not worth your time, or wont keep you interested long enough to actual want to progress through constantly.  I thought GW2 would break that barrier, and it did to a slight extent, but in the end my theory stood correct.

i agree with this 100%.  f2p is a disgrace and is all just a gimmick to try to siphon your bank account as fast as possible without actually trying to make the game any better outside of the cash shop.

 

b2p is almost as bad. they give a bit more in the game but still push their crap on the cash shop.

 

subscriptions are the best method, you pay them a low sub monthly and they push everything directly into the game.  the ONLY reason why this method is failing is because retarded corporations started pumping out clones as fast as possible at a completely unpolished broken rate.

 

i would play a sub mmo over a b2p or f2p game anyday if it was actually polished. but its forgivable to release a broken pos if its free right

Playing: Smite
Played: Nexus:Kingdom of the Winds, Everquest, DAoC, Everquest 2, WoW, Matrix Online, Vangaurd, SWG, DDO, EVE, Fallen Earth, LoTRo, CoX, Champions Online, WAR, Darkfall, Mortal Online, Guild Wars, Rift, Tera, Aion, AoC, Gods and Heroes, DCUO, FF14, TSW, SWTOR, GW2, Wildstar, ESO
Waiting On: Nothing really, though Black Desert looks pretty amazing so far.

  strangiato2112

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 9/21/12
Posts: 1566

1/21/13 10:45:41 PM#28
Originally posted by Kreedz
Originally posted by strangiato2112

B2P is not a good sign at all.

 

Company is behind the p2p model, even so much so that a game that is performing modestly at best remains p2p.

B2P is an admission they dont think the game warrants a sub.

 

And before people scream GW2, Arenanet knew they would deal with heavy volume.  Im assuming Trion isnt stupid and knows their game will have niche appeal, so they have no shot at the volume of GW2.  Small target audience + b2P = where is the $ going to come from?

Such a niave post.

 

Get with the times buddy, Subscriptions are a dying breed, the reason Developers are switching to a B2P model is because they realise the revenue potential from selling cosmetic items and little goodies like lockboxes.

 

Anyone who thinks b2p or f2p is the future is the one who is naive.

Its a fad.  Just as how the themepark model of WoW/EQ2 is a fad.

 

The reason every single game EXCEPT gw2 switched models is because they werent keeping the amount of subs necessary for p2p (LOTRO had a decent amount of subs, but many of them were lifetime so no income being taken in).  When you have f2p option you can justify slower development times/less staff.

  Celcius

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/20/04
Posts: 931

1/21/13 10:59:41 PM#29

Since it is B2P I might pick it up. I am not sure about paying for DLC though. If they have a system in place where you may as well being paying a sub because of how much DLC they come out with I probably won't bother. I did enjoy the beta weekend, technical issues and all, although the PvP seems a little broken currently. The game could strike well with me for that coop shooter itch I get sometimes, but I don't know. I am going to pick it up on PC and I honestly think with 3 seperate audiences off the bat the game will run into problems.

This game is facing the same issues Dust is, but on an even worse scale. Everyone playing Dust will be on PS3 so they won't have a split audience even though it is a niche game. Defiance is not only going to be a niche game, but is going to be on 3 different platforms. Since it is on 3 platforms that means they will constantly have to maintain 3 different versions of the game which has to be expensive, as well as have a far superior PC version of the game being at the end of a console generation. Why would you get the game on Xbox or PS3 when the new systems are fixing to come out? (Less then a year for both, presumably) And then, if you pickup the game on say PS3 then you are going to suffer with a small player base. This is not to mention that we don't know that the next generation of consoles will be backwards compatable. 

Honestly, console MMOs just don't work very well and there has been VERY few exceptions to this rule. The ones that do work suffer the same fate as most console games; no more support for the system and sometimes the game down the road as technology evolves.

  Celcius

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/20/04
Posts: 931

1/21/13 11:16:25 PM#30
Originally posted by strangiato2112
Originally posted by Kreedz
Originally posted by strangiato2112

B2P is not a good sign at all.

 

Company is behind the p2p model, even so much so that a game that is performing modestly at best remains p2p.

B2P is an admission they dont think the game warrants a sub.

 

And before people scream GW2, Arenanet knew they would deal with heavy volume.  Im assuming Trion isnt stupid and knows their game will have niche appeal, so they have no shot at the volume of GW2.  Small target audience + b2P = where is the $ going to come from?

Such a niave post.

 

Get with the times buddy, Subscriptions are a dying breed, the reason Developers are switching to a B2P model is because they realise the revenue potential from selling cosmetic items and little goodies like lockboxes.

 

Anyone who thinks b2p or f2p is the future is the one who is naive.

Its a fad.  Just as how the themepark model of WoW/EQ2 is a fad.

 

The reason every single game EXCEPT gw2 switched models is because they werent keeping the amount of subs necessary for p2p (LOTRO had a decent amount of subs, but many of them were lifetime so no income being taken in).  When you have f2p option you can justify slower development times/less staff.

Are you seriously going to claim that the WoW "themepark" model is a "fad"? Nothing but proof of the contrary exists. You may not like themeparks, but they are the only games in the industry that have made any significant amount of money. Eve is about the only exception to this. 

I find it funny that you claim that "F2P" justifies slower development time when infact most F2P themeparks have provided content faster then other sub based MMOs. F2P has nothing to do with staff either. You think that all of a sudden a whole crap load of people playing your game starting to NOT pay means you have more money to pay your staff?

The reason F2P works so well is because it generates traffic for the game. The result of F2P is usually because the game cannot support a certain level of quality based on the income generated by the number of subs they have. F2P models generally encourage people to actually pay a sub or pay for content in the store in order to makeup for a lack of subs every month. F2P games actually generate MORE money. More money means that staff that was fired because they were not generating enough revenue from P2P can actually be replaced. This can result in more content generation. 

B2P and F2P are entirely different. B2P essentially gives you the whole game without any restrictions and a cash shop which generally provides convience items, boosters,cosmetic,ect to help fund the game's development.

Providing DLC after B2P is a fine way to generate revenue as that is how most big games are going these days. Games like Skyrim,CoD,Borderlands 2; all of these games are the same model. Games in general are becoming more of a service then a single experience you play through. Developers and publishers alike are trying to continue to generate more content for the same products for continued revenue generation since not everyone can just shell out 60$ for a new game every month. 

The other way (the way that GW2 is doing it) is by not marking down the price of the game for a long time and providing frequent content updates that provide incentive to play the game. When people are playing the game they generally buy stuff on the cash shop every once in a while. Not to mention one of the key elements is the ability to convert gems to gold, offering another way to save time for people who have disposable income as well as a great source of income for the developers' contued support of the game.

The only time this doesn't work well is when you have a game that converts to B2P *ahem* after being a sub model for a while. The game has to be designed around it from the start. 

  Kreedz

Novice Member

Joined: 5/11/11
Posts: 445

1/22/13 12:04:18 AM#31

Celsius gets it.

 

People mention WoW, Eve, & Rift as examples of subsc riptions games. Yet, WoW has a chas shop, Eve has a cash shop, & Rift has gone F2P with upgrades afaik.

The fact that they remain as sub models, isnt because they are quality games, it's because they have a alot of players who feel invested in the game (see: Addiction) that they wont stop playing. And EVE is just, well, its a game for masochists.

"The problem with quotes from the Internet is that it's almost impossible to validate their authenticity." - Abraham Lincoln

  Lobotomist

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/20/07
Posts: 4798

I got so much trouble on my mind Refuse to lose.

1/22/13 12:10:57 AM#32
Originally posted by DMKano
The key phrase is missing above- buy 2 play, no subscription required! Woot!

Exactly - silent announcement , but its official I guess : B2P !

  Vannor

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/11/03
Posts: 2992

1/22/13 1:04:29 AM#33
Originally posted by Kreedz

Rift has gone F2P with upgrades afaik.

At the moment Rift is only ftp levels 1-50 in Asia, not in Europe or US. Rift Lite isn't classed as ftp... it's only 1 zone.

  JeroKane

Elite Member

Joined: 2/21/06
Posts: 4973

1/22/13 3:06:29 AM#34
Originally posted by DAOWAce

This is even more money grubbing than NCSoft with Guild Wars 2.

The game is goddamn boring; I feel bad for anyone who wastes money on it.  3 day beta weekend and I logged off within an hour.

Nice to see something like Tabula Rasa try to come back again, but the game is just lacking in almost every way.  Doesn't help that it's being developed for consoles as well.

Sadly. I had a hell lot more fun with Tabula Rasa.

It felt far more dynamic and I liked the combat a lot better too.

It's a shame that game got killed due to the political war between RG and NCsoft. :-(

  lumpking69

Novice Member

Joined: 10/28/07
Posts: 17

1/22/13 3:17:03 AM#35
So is there a $5 preorder or are those bonuses worth $5?
  Vesavius

Old School

Joined: 3/08/04
Posts: 7133

Players come for the game, but they stay for the people- Most Devs have forgotten this.

1/22/13 6:30:45 AM#36
Originally posted by Kreedz
Originally posted by strangiato2112

B2P is not a good sign at all.

 

Company is behind the p2p model, even so much so that a game that is performing modestly at best remains p2p.

B2P is an admission they dont think the game warrants a sub.

 

And before people scream GW2, Arenanet knew they would deal with heavy volume.  Im assuming Trion isnt stupid and knows their game will have niche appeal, so they have no shot at the volume of GW2.  Small target audience + b2P = where is the $ going to come from?

Such a niave post.

 

Get with the times buddy, Subscriptions are a dying breed, the reason Developers are switching to a B2P model is because they realise the revenue potential from selling cosmetic items and little goodies like lockboxes.

 

Ugh...

 

Subs still account for just over half of the market I believe, and maybe around of 80% of the *paying* market.

 

(and I highlight *paying* because, to be honest, the through and through commited freeloaders that seem to make up the bulk of the Western F2P market don't even count in my books... they do nothing for the genre or hobby past turning up and drag our games down with their ADHD rooted sense of entitlement to 'free' and the 'right' to play 5 MMOs at once)

 

Sub dying? Wake up... even the vast bulk of Western converted F2P games offer a sub option. The demand for it in this market is obvious.

 

Stop drinking the Kool Aid of the F2P shills and recieved wisdom sheep that listen to them.

 
 
  JeroKane

Elite Member

Joined: 2/21/06
Posts: 4973

1/22/13 1:35:43 PM#37
Originally posted by lumpking69
So is there a $5 preorder or are those bonuses worth $5?

It's an error in the article!!

It's either 59,99  for digital standard or 99,99 for the Digital Deluxe!  You pay all upfront!

 

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