Originally posted by SwampRob

Originally posted by steelheartx

Absolutely enjoy grouping and all of the community aspects that go with grouping.  These are MMOs, not single player games that you just happen to be playing with other people.  Well they used to be anyway.  

I never really understood this complaint from the pro-grouping crowd.   Virtually every MMO out there still locks the best gear in the game behind group-only combat.   Until an MMO comes out that allows for that best gear to be obtained group or solo, as the player would prefer, MMOs are still TOO group oriented.

Until that happens, every MMO is still "Yeah, you can solo for a while, but eventually it's group up or give up on any meaningful character progression."    There isn't an MMO in existence that's too solo-friendly yet.

I guess that would all depend on whether you are there for the community aspect, or just the gear.  Regardless both of these reflect our seperate opinions, and you know what they say about opinions............  

Originally posted by SwampRob

Originally posted by steelheartx

Absolutely enjoy grouping and all of the community aspects that go with grouping.  These are MMOs, not single player games that you just happen to be playing with other people.  Well they used to be anyway.  

I never really understood this complaint from the pro-grouping crowd.   Virtually every MMO out there still locks the best gear in the game behind group-only combat.   Until an MMO comes out that allows for that best gear to be obtained group or solo, as the player would prefer, MMOs are still TOO group oriented.

Until that happens, every MMO is still "Yeah, you can solo for a while, but eventually it's group up or give up on any meaningful character progression."    There isn't an MMO in existence that's too solo-friendly yet.

I get the feeling from a lot of these posts that they really don't know how to socialize or interact outside of being forced together with others. I never seem them suggest any other manner of interaction or 'community' engagmeent other than asking that other people be forced to play with them.

Originally posted by Loktofeit

Originally posted by SwampRob

Originally posted by steelheartx

Absolutely enjoy grouping and all of the community aspects that go with grouping.  These are MMOs, not single player games that you just happen to be playing with other people.  Well they used to be anyway.  

I never really understood this complaint from the pro-grouping crowd.   Virtually every MMO out there still locks the best gear in the game behind group-only combat.   Until an MMO comes out that allows for that best gear to be obtained group or solo, as the player would prefer, MMOs are still TOO group oriented.

Until that happens, every MMO is still "Yeah, you can solo for a while, but eventually it's group up or give up on any meaningful character progression."    There isn't an MMO in existence that's too solo-friendly yet.

I get the feeling from a lot of these posts that they really don't know how to socialize or interact outside of being forced together with others. I never seem them suggest any other manner of interaction or 'community' engagmeent other than asking that other people be forced to play with them.

Exactly!   There's a lot more to socializing in a game besides "Group up for combat", which actually often has very little socializing.

Originally posted by SwampRob

Originally posted by Loktofeit

Originally posted by SwampRob

Originally posted by steelheartx

Absolutely enjoy grouping and all of the community aspects that go with grouping.  These are MMOs, not single player games that you just happen to be playing with other people.  Well they used to be anyway.  

I never really understood this complaint from the pro-grouping crowd.   Virtually every MMO out there still locks the best gear in the game behind group-only combat.   Until an MMO comes out that allows for that best gear to be obtained group or solo, as the player would prefer, MMOs are still TOO group oriented.

Until that happens, every MMO is still "Yeah, you can solo for a while, but eventually it's group up or give up on any meaningful character progression."    There isn't an MMO in existence that's too solo-friendly yet.

I get the feeling from a lot of these posts that they really don't know how to socialize or interact outside of being forced together with others. I never seem them suggest any other manner of interaction or 'community' engagmeent other than asking that other people be forced to play with them.

Exactly!   There's a lot more to socializing in a game besides "Group up for combat", which actually often has very little socializing.

That's true, but I think it becomes alot more difficult when different and competing activities are introduced into the same environment.....

Example:

I'm in an area to RP (social actvity)...

You are in an area to Power-Quest Level (solo activity)

If I attempt to RP with you, you might get annoyed with me because it is "slowing you down".  You might accept grouping with me because there is less competition for resources...but if I'm going through mobs slowly...you get annoyed with me because...I'm slowing down the activity that you want.

If I am continualy annoying people with my attempts to RP, then I simply may get disheartened and give up even trying to see if people are interested in RP....because I'm not someone that actualy likes to annoy people.

If I find another freind that wants to RP with me and we spend alot of time fighting the mobs in an area.... we might annoy people that are there to power-level through questing because we are "using up more of those mobs then we need" and slowing down/interfering with thier questing.

The natural result of that is to want to see a game/area that is specificaly designated for the type of play/style that you are interested in so that you don't end with those conflicting interests.....

In other words, if you want to play baseball......you want to sign up for a "baseball league"....so that you know that everyone who is there is interested in the same activity...... not some "random use of the park" signup sheet.

Even things like LFG or Group-Sign-Up tools don't work particulary well in most MMO's because they are still conflating people who are there for vastly different interests and play-styles into the same activity....kinda like putting people who are interested in playing pro-baseball for money into the same activity signup as folks that want a casual/relaxed game where you are hardly keeping score. YMMV.

One thing I've always lamented about MMOs is that they'll have designated RP servers, but do nothing to enforce RP'ing on that server.

IMO, RP servers should have an OOC (out of character) channel, but ALL chatting done on the normal chaneel should be in character.    Players not following these rules would be warned, and repeated warnings would result in a forced move to another non-RP server.

Originally posted by SwampRob

One thing I've always lamented about MMOs is that they'll have designated RP servers, but do nothing to enforce RP'ing on that server.

IMO, RP servers should have an OOC (out of character) channel, but ALL chatting done on the normal chaneel should be in character.    Players not following these rules would be warned, and repeated warnings would result in a forced move to another non-RP server.

I don't think I've been on an RP-enforced server since.... Perc DAoC?  Do MMOs still make them?

grouping.... yes please

i play mmo's to play with people. not just to see some oddly named pixels run by me silently from ! to !

Originally posted by SwampRob

Originally posted by steelheartx

Absolutely enjoy grouping and all of the community aspects that go with grouping.  These are MMOs, not single player games that you just happen to be playing with other people.  Well they used to be anyway.  

I never really understood this complaint from the pro-grouping crowd.   Virtually every MMO out there still locks the best gear in the game behind group-only combat.   Until an MMO comes out that allows for that best gear to be obtained group or solo, as the player would prefer, MMOs are still TOO group oriented.

Until that happens, every MMO is still "Yeah, you can solo for a while, but eventually it's group up or give up on any meaningful character progression."    There isn't an MMO in existence that's too solo-friendly yet.

This makes me think of DAOC again.  You could craft the best gear in the game, yet people still grouped up and did raids for gear.  Certain (pre-TOA) items offered advantages that you couldn't get from crafting and were better than crafted, but you couldn't just throw together a set of group-only gear and expect to be better than everyone else.  Your gear had to be tailored to meet certain limitations of the itemization system in order to maximize the strengths of your character.

Games these days just expect you to get "the best" item for your character and spend a lot of time doing it.  They don't force you to choose, and they don't force you to fit that item into a set of gear with limitations.  The just dumb things down and people get bored too fast because their brains are not stimulated by exploring limitless possibilities.

Another issue is forced grouping makes you rely on someone else to advance your character.  Content is tailored to force people to reach the pre-defined mathematical limits of the gear they are expected to have for that dungeon.  Instead of doing this, a better system might make it possible to complete with three people but allow five in the group.  That would relieve the pressures some feel of forced grouping which feels like one must rely on others to be as good as they feel they are.

In the end, MMOs need to get back to being social.  It shouldn't be a gear or level grind which holds subscriptions.  The best MMOs I have enjoyed (DAOC, CoH, Tabula Rasa) were more about doing things with others for fun than grinding for the next piece of gear.

Originally posted by Enerzeal

This is a very simple thread, and at the same time one that will no doubt baffle me. The question is simple, do you like to group up, or do you prefer to stick to yourself in an MMO?

But not a simple answer. Because it's not a binary yes/no question, nor is my behavior always the same/always consistent.

MUDs: Hunted in groups, always. In the early days, someone to snatch up your goodies because they dropped if you did. Later on, because it was so intensely boring-standing in one spot, waiting for a respawn. No non-grindy way to gain xp either; no such thing as quests or PVP experience, nor xp for crafting etc. Have you ever encountered the "standing on a pile of trash while hunting" phenomenon in a MMO?

MMOs: I partnered with another player consistently for many years. Then raiding guild, grouping with skilled/equipped players always more attractive than the random element/performance/attitude of PuGs. I would say, generally, I preferred grouping most of the time-with occaisional bouts of "get the hell away from people for a while" soloing.

But then, oh yes, then the dungeon finder came along. Simultaneously the best and the worst invention in MMO history.

The best, because asocial wretches (which many, many players were) weren't excluded. And worst, for exactly the same reason. The community, what remained of it, quickly vanished in a sea of double anomymity--anonymous players of anonymous toons, with no stake in anything except the drop from the next boss. Without accountability, people got nasty fast.

So I guess the answer is: I prefer to group (largely, but not always), unless surrounded by asocial wretches-in which case, I tend to embrace asocial wretch most of the time.

Dungeon Finder made asocial too convenient. But social players are old school.

Originally posted by Loktofeit

I don't think I've been on an RP-enforced server since.... Perc DAoC?  Do MMOs still make them?

Yes. But enforcement of written policy is basically unheard of.

Times changed and things changed and we adapted.

Back in early DAoC that was before leveling was a one day affair by the way. I started the game solo and after a couple days I met another person that was struggling as I was to get from level 7 to level 8. We joined forces and it made things go a bit easier but we still could have done it alone but the company was pleasant so we stuck together and chatted while we had healing down time.

After a couple hours we had made 3 levels together and grew a friendship that lasted through the life of our gaming of DAoC. Slowly but surely over the next 8 months we met others and they had friends. We all joined a guild and it grew to over 200 players all with goals and none of us had yet reached the level cap. We were not concerned with LOOT and we didn’t mind being POOR because we all just enjoyed each others company.

It is sad but it is true.

Originally posted by Icewhite

Originally posted by Loktofeit

I don't think I've been on an RP-enforced server since.... Perc DAoC?  Do MMOs still make them?

Yes. But enforcement of written policy is basically unheard of.

That's because it requires hiring people to enforce it and that's expensive.  Even finding player volunteers is expensive because you still have to hire people to police the volunteers.  That's why the servers are "RP-suggested", not enforced.

It's interesting how this question is usally framed as "do you like?"  Of course I like grouping.  That's why I play a multiplayer game.

But just because I like grouping doesn't mean I always have that luxury.  Grouping is an obligation.  My groupmates expect me to have an hour or two to devote to what we are doing.  They want me to finish what i start and not leave them hanging.  They expect me to remain focused, and not have to afk a lot.  

It's a reasonable expectation.  But my real life doesn't always make that possible.  So I need soloing as an option for when I would be a drag on a group.  

YES !!!!

I find games get so boring playing alione, I obviously prefer grouping up with real life friends , much more fun.

but if i can find a good guild not full of elitists and people who dont feel a need to power through everything, then this will do as well

SOLO = QUIT after a month.   I think thats why so many people jump from mmo to mmo is cause all they do is solo.

I preferred to group definitely. But one thing that really sucks about grouping is when there's people that finishes all their quests and then just drops the group without helping the rest of the players finish theirs. But if you can get a solid group going for about 2 to 4 hours of just questing and grinding exp, that is very fun. Make new friends and get a core group going daily or even weekly. It's the most fun and engaging thing to do in an MMO. If I had no choice but to solo, I dont mind it either as long if I can handle doing group activites by myself.

I would only join guilds in order to advance myself in the end game stuff. If I feel the need to want better gear to have a sense of accomplishment then why not? I tend to be quite active in guilds, helping others with quests, crafting things for them, giving out advice when they need direction on where to go questing.

Originally posted by Enerzeal

This is a very simple thread, and at the same time one that will no doubt baffle me. The question is simple, do you like to group up, or do you prefer to stick to yourself in an MMO? 

Sub question - Do you get involved with guilds beyond guild benefits, when I say benefits I mean EXP increasees, drop rate bonuses etc, not the bonuses of having a group of raiders/people you know and can play with well.

As a general rule, these days... No.

I'm long past sick and tired of the GO GO GO! Types. 

If its a member of a guild I'm in, thats possible.   But as far as PUG's in general go, no.

1) I enjoy grouping when I am in the mood for a faster game. Usually, I tend wander off the beaten path and "see what is over there." Not really a group-friendly style of play. However, when I do find myself in a good group, time and levels fly by and many good memories are created.

2) Guilds I join for the people, not the perks. I do not want XP boosts in a game that takes a matter of weeks to reach top level in the first place. I tend to avoid huge guilds, looking for smaller, more intimate guilds.