Originally posted by mmoDAD

 

SWTOR is probably the biggest flop of all time. Finally! The Theme Park trend is over! Woohoo! <60 days later> The Elder Scrolls Online is announced...

 

ESO sure is a themepark MMO but It tries to branch out from the copy mold with some new idea and some new features.

Besides no one in their right mind can put ESO and SWTOR in the same basket.

Originally posted by Raithe-Nor

 

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Originally posted by neobahamut20
WoW was and is still far from a fluke. Hate it as you wish, but it did too much right to be fluke.

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I'm not sure if you understand what a fluke is. A fluke is a "stroke of good luck," and just because WoW did a lot of things right does not prevent it from being, precisely, a "stroke of good luck." Since current subscriber numbers of WoW are significantly lower than 3 or 4 years ago, I would say that attempting to duplicate an MMO that isn't successfully duplicating itself would be a bad idea.

Which was my point.

 

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Originally posted by neobahamut20
If you care so much about numbers, you are the problem.

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The whole point of the numbers was to prove how wrong, misleading, and useless they can be. If you aren't going to attempt to understand a post at even a minor and fundamental level, you would do better to post without quoting.

Like all things, WoW is dated, its old. Of course subs are going down. Note that the downward slide also, perhaps coincidently, started at the same time their forum started to be run in nazi fashion by the moderators in order to shut up complaints about the direction the company was going. It is not luck to create something that gets a lot of people just because others aren't capable of doing the same. It is far from a fluke. It was simply a solid product that improved on many existing mechanisms that many people enjoyed.

Again, if you care about numbers enough to rely on them being a part of your argument, you are part of the problem, you are their target audience since it obviously got to you.

Originally posted by Torgrim

Who am I?

I'm a consumer with a voice and opinions.

Should I not be allowed to voice my opinions?

Sure, that's what we're here for.

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Originally posted by neobahamut20
Like all things, WoW is dated, its old. Of course subs are going down.

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A useless belief considering that WoW is currently the leader in MMOs in basically every category there is. Even more useless as an argument against WoW being a fluke, as claims of lucky circumstances and claims of degradation due to time are extremely similar. You can claim it got old, I can claim its luck ran out. They are basically the same.

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Originally posted by neobahamut20
Again, if you care about numbers enough to rely on them being a part of your argument, you are part of the problem, you are their target audience since it obviously got to you.

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Please stop replying to me. My post was a response to someone claiming that the numbers are useful and help filter the industry. I did nothing in my posts that you didn't do yourself.

[mod edit]

Many reasons.

Sometimes its because there are scummy developers behind the game that lie and falsely advertise (Mortal Online, Age of Conan).

Other times its because devs have screwed over their player base (SWG: NGE)

and other times, it's because an MMO is a cheap clone that doesn't deserve to be successful, and its failure will discourage other companies from making cheap clones.

Need more reasons? The whole industry is connected together. I cheered when SWTOR went down because it meant that releasing singleplayer games and calling them MMOs would not work.

When fans publicly praise or endorse a game, they draw a connection between the game and themselves.  The game's successes or failures then appear to reflect upon the fan's judgment.  

Conversely, when a game that a player does not endorse, or a game that the player publicly criticizes, fails, it appears to that player that their criticism was validated.  The elementary glee of being able to say, "I told you so!"  It puts the critic in "the right" and everyone else in "the wrong."  

As childish as it is, surely you can comprehend the simple satisfaction some people find in such moments?  

Originally posted by Torgrim

Who am I?

I'm a consumer with a voice and opinions.

Should I not be allowed to voice my opinions?

If you hate a game so much that you want it to close, why do you still consider yourself a consumer of that game?

Wrong, O.P. It isn't about laughing when someone falls down. It's about calling them out about being an idiot when you warned them repeatedly to avoid the bump in the road.

Originally posted by Homitu

When fans publicly praise or endorse a game, they draw a connection between the game and themselves.  The game's successes or failures then appear to reflect upon the fan's judgment.  

Conversely, when a game that a player does not endorse, or a game that the player publicly criticizes, fails, it appears to that player that their criticism was validated.  The elementary glee of being able to say, "I told you so!"  It puts the critic in "the right" and everyone else in "the wrong."  

As childish as it is, surely you can comprehend the simple satisfaction some people find in such moments?  

I believe you got it right there, can't be explained better than that, IMO.

When someones beliefs are attacked they'll defend them at all cost, reason not withstanding.

Originally posted by maplestone

Originally posted by Torgrim

Who am I?

I'm a consumer with a voice and opinions.

Should I not be allowed to voice my opinions?

If you hate a game so much that you want it to close, why do you still consider yourself a consumer of that game?

I am a MMO consumer In general who are interested in MMOs that should advance the genre not stagnate it.

And yes before you do a post history on me to fuel your argument I spare you the time

Yes I think GW2 broke the clone mold and tries to do something new in the genre, is it the best game ever?, no, but the direction GW2 is better than WoW clone road so many have taken during the years with SWTOR as the cherry on top.

Originally posted by Vorthanion
The problem as I see it is that some people want the entire genre to change.  In their world view, there is no room for other play styles or types of games, every new game should conform to their criteria.

That pendulum swings both ways.

wanting a game to fail because you don't like it is selfish and immature.

also, if you actually believe that companies will keep sinking money into mmo's when they all keep failing, then you really don't have a grip on reality.

the problem is, game companies cant really come up with anything new, its all pretty much been done to death.

even the "sandbox" games that people here seem to want (me included) has been done before.

this is why people are so negative and cynical about every single game that come out now.

this will not change any time soon IMO.

Personally im very happy with every developer trying to make an rpg mmo or not and in case its good we shall play it.

Im also very happy though when i see whole companies when they try to scam the market (us) , not to get a frieking penny, when instead of being creative and offer a fresh product made out of hard work, instead they r being lazy and try to win millions on the back of unsuspected customers ,by making games that are quite mediocre . Im vey happy tosee them loose their money invested so they learn the next time instead of wasting lots on money in advertising,put their resources on the creative department and actually work hard instead of what they do nowdays.

We as players/customers need more guys like the 2 turkish guys that made mount&blade, those newzealand fellas that are making POE,indie devs that are actually played rpg's andknow what ppl want, and less guys than the ones that made aoc,lotr,ddo and any other mediocre game u can see outthere.

people dont want other people to have fun in other games, because that would reduce the interest and fun in "their" "main" game :P

Everyone wants the game they play themselfs to reach the top, even if they have to mentally destroy all other games :P

Originally posted by Scot
Being glad something failed because you did not like it is immature, but then many players and posters are in their teens. This should be expected when you think of the age demographic.

It has nothing to do with the age demographic.   Do you ever read any political forums or comment sections?  Those people live for the "other guy" making a mistake or being involved in some type of scandel.  That demographics is much older then the gamers.

Originally posted by Torgrim

I am a MMO consumer In general who are interested in MMOs that should advance the genre not stagnate it.

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Originally posted by Crazy_Stick
Its a negative part of human nature and enjoyed for the same reason people enjoy seeing those they dislike suffer or have hard times. Vicariously, it makes them feel better about themselves and their choices. The germans even have a word for it: Schadenfreude.

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This

It's funny that so few people admit it, if you look at replies you see a lot of dodges, but the heart of it is that it seems to validate people.

"If I dont like it, then it must be bad" they want to be right, or they want their taste to be agreed with.

The thing is, the more choices we have, the better, the more niche groups get something that they enjoy. Titles dont have to be for everyone, and this isnt 1999, where mainstream gamers had EQ or UO, and not much else.