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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Why do "some" people enjoy an MMO being shut down or doing badly?

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172 posts found
  xmenty

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/22/10
Posts: 691

1/21/13 5:04:13 AM#121

Survival of the fittest.

You don't make bad games and be a bad dev then expect your game to make it for 10 years.

Just let these game die and move on.

Don't blame us if they lose their job, they should blame themselves for being in love with their game or

they listen too much of sweet things from their fanboys.

I read a lot of devs comment in these forums or in the web, they tend to be full of themselves.

 

 

 

Pardon my English as it is not my 1st language :)

  Coman

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/29/04
Posts: 1954

1/21/13 5:09:25 AM#122
Originally posted by WahrHeit
if a bad game does well it really impact the genre you know.

If a bad games does well it ain't a bad game. If something is bad it will not do well. It might have huge initial sales, but they will die down. 

  Vonatar

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/18/10
Posts: 582

1/21/13 5:13:30 AM#123

The answer to the OP is simple:

Schadenfreude

scha . den . freu . de

Noun

Pleasure derived by someone from another person's misfortune.

  Torgrim

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 12/15/05
Posts: 2154

1/21/13 6:10:15 AM#124
You should not reward anyone for doing a poor job.

If it's not broken, you are not innovating.

  Ezhae

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/03/06
Posts: 734

1/21/13 6:37:18 AM#125
Originally posted by Torgrim
You should not reward anyone for doing a poor job.

And who are You to decide what's poor job and what's not? I mean, if people enjoy it, why does it hurt you that a game exists? Does it somehow prevent you from playing anything else? Most people who write all the "I hope this game will fail" stuff do it prior to the games actual release and often without even playing it. They just consider anything that's not up their alley to be a threat to their very existance and ego. 

Very few games actually hurt the industry by their incompetence, and those that do are quickly picked up and called on it by both the community and alls orts of gaming journalists/reviewers. 

  Terranah

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/03/04
Posts: 3616

1/21/13 12:21:53 PM#126
Originally posted by Quizzical
If a game is highly successful, then there are likely to be many efforts at copying it.  You want that to happen to games you like, not games you hate.

 This didn't occur to me at first, but I think there is a lot of truth to that.  The other aspect is for some who like to play monday night quarterback, a game they predict will do poorly failing validates their opinion.

 

I was actually kind of sad when SWG shut down, even though it was in a form (NGE) I no longer played.  The thought of never returning to the world, even for just nostalgia's sake was a bummer.

 

Auto Assault on the other hand was horrid.  So to was the last Final Fantasy mmo despite having beautiful graphics.  Sometimes I think devs and big production houses need to learn some humility, and maybe not take success for granted.  Failure can be a good teacher sometimes.

  Icewhite

Made History

Joined: 7/11/11
Posts: 6495

Pink, it's like red but not quite.

1/21/13 12:28:34 PM#127

Pessimism, thanks to teenage angst, has/will always be the thing that all the cool gamer kids on the internet do.

Optimism is less popular, but also less hopeless.

 

If bitterness wants to get into the act, I offer it a cookie or a gumdrop.
—James Broughton

Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  neobahamut20

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/03/12
Posts: 359

We can only show them the path, but they have to be the ones to take it.

1/21/13 12:37:03 PM#128
Originally posted by jpnz
Originally posted by Paradigm68

There are valid reasons.

If you're a big fan of the MMO genre and you think that genre is being ruined by certain dynamics (I.E. instancing, de-emphasizing communitiy) then big money games that use those dynamics need to fail or they'll become an adopted norm.

If you're a big fan of a given IP and an MMO has come out based on that IP but the MMO in your opinion has handled it terribly (I.E. LoTRO, SWTOR, ESO), then your only hope to play an MMO based on your favorite IP is to hope the current version fails and a new better one is made.

This shows a fundamentally flawed logic that is pretty common amongst people that doesn't know how the real world works.

The logic of 'Failure = breeds innovation / better version' is flawed and history has proven time and again that it is false.

Why people still think this way I have no idea.

It is true, in a way, let me help you understand: 

That logic doesn't apply to the same people. If someone copies something and it is shit, the observers will accept the risk of going forward with their innovative ideas, because, at worse, it fails like copying does. Now if observers watch and see 150 million dollar budgets be successful, they start thinking, thinking that maybe they are wrong and it is doubt that truly kills their innovation, so they go with what they think people seem to want, a WoW clone. That is the source of the problem.

 

You might be lucky to find the 1 or 2 people that never played WoW in your clone, but chances are, everyone did and those people are no longer playing WoW because they want something else. It is the flawed logic of "suits" that is the problem, they keep telling themselves people quit WoW because they aren't "l33t54uc3" so they remake WoW.... with dumbed down content, which makes their product that much more boring, that much worse.

 

So although failure does not necessarily breed innovation, it halts stagnation and innovation is only truly stopped when we stagnate. When games like SW:ToR fail, it only shows that perhaps your wacky idea as a game designer might just be what people want as what people don't want is what is already out there.

Boycotting EA. Why? They suck, even moreso since 2008.

  Dauzqul

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/10/12
Posts: 1266

1/21/13 12:41:32 PM#129

WoW = NGE, AoC, WAR, Aion, Tera, STO, SWTOR, etc....

When non-innovative games fail, people are happy because they think that it will be the final wake-up call for future developers. The problem is that it's rarely the case.

SWTOR is probably the biggest flop of all time. Finally! The Theme Park trend is over! Woohoo! <60 days later> The Elder Scrolls Online is announced...

 

People don't like to see good games fail. People like to see bad games fail.

  Icewhite

Made History

Joined: 7/11/11
Posts: 6495

Pink, it's like red but not quite.

1/21/13 12:45:07 PM#130
Originally posted by mmoDAD
The problem is that it's rarely the case.

Possibly because the gamer-ized definition of "fail" is so very, very different from the business definition?

Proper Forum Drama requires it to be, after all.

Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  Raithe-Nor

Novice Member

Joined: 11/08/07
Posts: 322

1/21/13 12:49:08 PM#131
Originally posted by Ezhae

Very few games actually hurt the industry by their incompetence, and those that do are quickly picked up and called on it by both the community and alls orts of gaming journalists/reviewers. 

Wrong on both accounts.

Darkfall received an utterly disgusting review as one of it's initial scores (I think 2 or 3 out of 10 from Eurogamer).  It's most recent score on mmorpg.com places it among the top tier of MMOs with Wow only being 0.34 higher (7.55 vs 7.21).

Darkfall was a better game at its release, mostly because it is currently dead (full-blown server shutdown).  I read the review from Eurogamer, it was completely off-base and the poor review was entirely because the reviewer simply had no clue what type of game he was really playing.  Yes, the reviewer regularly reviewed MMOs - yet still he was completely unware of what an old-style MMO was supposed to be like.

That is the problem with incompetency and unchecked money-grabbing in an industry.  The industry can lose its identity.

WoW was a fluke based on temporal circumstances and having four-five highly successful RTS/hacknslash predecessors.  It can no longer be copied.  Developers would do well to figure out what many mmorpg forum participants seem to know.

And yes, they need to figure it out for themselves.  Me or the other hundred people telling them is just to provide the motivation.

  botrytis

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 2532

1/21/13 12:51:10 PM#132
Originally posted by mmoDAD

WoW = NGE, AoC, WAR, Aion, Tera, STO, SWTOR, etc....

When non-innovative games fail, people are happy because they think that it will be the final wake-up call for future developers. The problem is that it's rarely the case.

SWTOR is probably the biggest flop of all time. Finally! The Theme Park trend is over! Woohoo! <60 days later> The Elder Scrolls Online is announced...

 

People don't like to see good games fail. People like to see bad games fail.

Not the case - little whiney gamers THINK they know what is good for the industry not what the industry wants or needs.

 

As was stated by others and myself in this thread - people who want to see games and game companies fail are very egotistical, whiney nerds who don't really understand games and the market. They think they unsderstand it all and they dont.

"In 50 years, when I talk to my grandchildren about these days, I'll make sure to mention what an accomplished MMO player I was. They are going to be so proud ..."
by Naqaj - 7/17/2013 MMORPG.com forum

  cura

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/24/04
Posts: 867

1/21/13 12:53:43 PM#133
Originally posted by laokoko
because they hope developer stop making "those type of game" and start making the type of game they like.  If you follow the forum closely I think many sandboxer felt that way. 

In my case pretty much this. I as well wish ill on companies that lied to much like SOE and BW.

  Slappy1

Novice Member

Joined: 12/27/12
Posts: 464

1/21/13 12:53:46 PM#134
Originally posted by jtcgs
Originally posted by TheScavenger

It doesn't make sense. And it is a growing problem... 

So again...why do "some" people find enjoyment in a MMO being closed or doing badly?

 The REAL question is WHO is really the ones enjoying it?

Funny thing is that I see repeated continually is this.

Game is released, everyone is enjoying the game. Time goes by, players find issues. Players that found issues talk about the issues, rampant foaming at the mouth players who havent defend defend defend and do everything they can to shut the others down. Players trying to speak becomes frustraited, posts more to try to get a response from the company, the defenders turn into full fledge super fanboy, continue to defend while then trolling to get the others banned or have the threads shutdown.

Players start to leave the game. More players then start having issues with the game, repeat above.

Now players are having issues with finding people to play with because so many leave, now they are the bad guys, fanboys turn on them.

Suddenly the game is doing really bad, the company has no idea why so many left and has done nothing to fix the problems...time to go F2P to try to save the game.

The company can have HORRIBLE revenue reports, fire massive amounts of people SEVERAL TIMES, merge servers, go F2P, still have bad revenue...and the fanboys will still say nothing is wrong with the game and do what they were doing right from the start...shutting people down.

So now, the original players that wanted to talk shortly after release are now saying, SEE, if we had been listened to from the start the game wouldnt have gotten to this point, are so SICK of the fanboys...yeah, they may smile when that game dies...not that the GAME died, that the fanboys dont have it anymore because THEY HELPED MAKE IT STAY THAT WAY!

But, the question is, these same fanboys tell us that we shouldnt say anything, either like the game or leave, and they do it for EVERY MMO they play...so, who really is enjoying the deaths of MMOs? It sounds more like its those telling us not to speak, and allow bad games to remain so and never improve...

+1000 ^^ pretty much sums it up,nice post.

Some day I'm going to put a sword through your eye and out the back of your skull!

Arya Stark

  neobahamut20

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/03/12
Posts: 359

We can only show them the path, but they have to be the ones to take it.

1/21/13 12:57:47 PM#135
Originally posted by Raithe-Nor
Originally posted by Ezhae

Very few games actually hurt the industry by their incompetence, and those that do are quickly picked up and called on it by both the community and alls orts of gaming journalists/reviewers. 

Wrong on both accounts.

Darkfall received an utterly disgusting review as one of it's initial scores (I think 2 or 3 out of 10 from Eurogamer).  It's most recent score on mmorpg.com places it among the top tier of MMOs with Wow only being 0.34 higher (7.55 vs 7.21).

Darkfall was a better game at its release, mostly because it is currently dead (full-blown server shutdown).  I read the review from Eurogamer, it was completely off-base and the poor review was entirely because the reviewer simply had no clue what type of game he was really playing.  Yes, the reviewer regularly reviewed MMOs - yet still he was completely unware of what an old-style MMO was supposed to be like.

That is the problem with incompetency and unchecked money-grabbing in an industry.  The industry can lose it's identity.

WoW was a fluke based on temporal circumstances and having four-five highly successful RTS/hacknslash predecessors.  It can no longer be copied.  Developers would do well to figure out what many mmorpg forum participants seem to know.

And yes, they need to figure it out for themselves.  Me or the other hundred people telling them is just to provide the motivation.

WoW was and is still far from a fluke. Hate it as you wish, but it did too much right to be fluke. Now, you arent a reviewer, so you can just hate something and dismiss it for what it is not.  As for Darkfall, the reviewer was probably expecting his payment for publicity from the makers of the game that he never got, so the game got reviewed accordingly. Its how the game review business works, its why many EA games get scored 8/10 and over. If you care so much about numbers, you are the problem.

Boycotting EA. Why? They suck, even moreso since 2008.

  Amathe

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/02/05
Posts: 1666

1/21/13 1:03:30 PM#136

I don't usually celebrate the failure of any mmo, as I am a fan of the genre and want it to stay strong.

 

Exceptions to that rule are:

 

1. When a game is punitive of or disrespectful to some group of players;

 

2.  If I feel the developers misled prospective players in the marketing of the game; or

 

3. If I feel the developers have been greedy on the revenue side at the expense of making a quality product. 

 

Those are behaviors where I like to see the market react and hit back.  

 

EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests

  Dauzqul

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/10/12
Posts: 1266

1/21/13 1:06:39 PM#137
Originally posted by botrytis
Originally posted by mmoDAD

WoW = NGE, AoC, WAR, Aion, Tera, STO, SWTOR, etc....

When non-innovative games fail, people are happy because they think that it will be the final wake-up call for future developers. The problem is that it's rarely the case.

SWTOR is probably the biggest flop of all time. Finally! The Theme Park trend is over! Woohoo! <60 days later> The Elder Scrolls Online is announced...

 

People don't like to see good games fail. People like to see bad games fail.

Not the case - little whiney gamers THINK they know what is good for the industry not what the industry wants or needs.

 

As was stated by others and myself in this thread - people who want to see games and game companies fail are very egotistical, whiney nerds who don't really understand games and the market. They think they unsderstand it all and they dont.

Well it's clear that the developers don't understand it. If they did, we wouldn't have these mass amount of flops.

Players are winey because they are sick of the same old stuff. They know the industry much more than you think. I mean...who would know more than the consumer?

  Torgrim

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 12/15/05
Posts: 2154

1/21/13 1:08:41 PM#138
Originally posted by Ezhae
Originally posted by Torgrim
You should not reward anyone for doing a poor job.

And who are You to decide what's poor job and what's not? I mean, if people enjoy it, why does it hurt you that a game exists?

 

Who am I?

I'm a consumer with a voice and opinions.

Should I not be allowed to voice my opinions?

If it's not broken, you are not innovating.

  Raithe-Nor

Novice Member

Joined: 11/08/07
Posts: 322

1/21/13 1:08:46 PM#139


Originally posted by neobahamut20
WoW was and is still far from a fluke. Hate it as you wish, but it did too much right to be fluke.

I'm not sure if you understand what a fluke is. A fluke is a "stroke of good luck," and just because WoW did a lot of things right does not prevent it from being, precisely, a "stroke of good luck." Since current subscriber numbers of WoW are significantly lower than 3 or 4 years ago, I would say that attempting to duplicate an MMO that isn't successfully duplicating itself would be a bad idea.

Which was my point.


Originally posted by neobahamut20
If you care so much about numbers, you are the problem.

The whole point of the numbers was to prove how wrong, misleading, and useless they can be. If you aren't going to attempt to understand a post at even a minor and fundamental level, you would do better to post without quoting.

  neobahamut20

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/03/12
Posts: 359

We can only show them the path, but they have to be the ones to take it.

1/21/13 1:13:06 PM#140
Originally posted by botrytis
Originally posted by mmoDAD

WoW = NGE, AoC, WAR, Aion, Tera, STO, SWTOR, etc....

When non-innovative games fail, people are happy because they think that it will be the final wake-up call for future developers. The problem is that it's rarely the case.

SWTOR is probably the biggest flop of all time. Finally! The Theme Park trend is over! Woohoo! <60 days later> The Elder Scrolls Online is announced...

 

People don't like to see good games fail. People like to see bad games fail.

Not the case - little whiney gamers THINK they know what is good for the industry not what the industry wants or needs.

 

As was stated by others and myself in this thread - people who want to see games and game companies fail are very egotistical, whiney nerds who don't really understand games and the market. They think they unsderstand it all and they dont.

 

Well belittling others is a common trait of the stooge, part of the 20% of people thinking they are part of the 1% of the wealthiest in society. For information purposes, although you are a lost cause, those "little whiney gamers" ARE the industry. People dressing up in suits trying to decide what to invest in are those who know nothing and their only "want" is money.

 

People who want to see a game succeed are also egotistical, as everyone is. Logical fallacies everywhere, red herrings, well, the average stooge, not even worthy of being deemed a troll.

Boycotting EA. Why? They suck, even moreso since 2008.

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