Originally posted by sapphen

Originally posted by Torvaldr

Originally posted by sapphen

Originally posted by PyrateLV

Factions are fine and are definately part of ES Lore.

FORCED Faction locks and segregated zones, based on what Race you pick, for the sole reason of 3 way PvP is not

I couldn't put it better.  There are some things I can accept from a ES MMO;  I understand that player housing may be difficult,  I'm not happy about the classes but if they don't limit weapons or armor I'll give it a chance, I don't like the idea of an abilitiy bar but casters had a lot of abilities so I'll be accepting --- BUT THERE WAS NO REASON TO LOCK THE FACTIONS!

Both very well said.  I don't mind some of the standard mmo trope with hotbars and adjusting how the world works to make multi-player function well.  But contrived, locked factions don't make sense in this universe, and really they've not added a great deal to any mmo with the exception of DAoC.  It could very well be they're making a horrible assumption that the contrived locked faction mechanic will transfer over well.  I think it will not.

Indeed.  I wish they would've fleshed out the world with quests for everyone.  Then if people wanted to participate in PvP battles then they would have to join a faction.

Second, ESO would have been a flipping awesome game to have a PvP server/open world PvP - and I don't even like PvP servers.  Having a bounty system that made town guards attempt to arrest or kill players on sight that are careless murders.  Would be a proactive punishment to have your character stuck in a jail for 6-12 hours without the ability to skip time.  There even could be a high level NPC bounty hunter that would go after players that camp, harass or kill lowbies mercilessly and take them to jail (you know like having high level guards to protect towns but instead they'd go after players).

They squandered so many creative possibilities for the sake of common MMO expectations.

What would have made more sense with factions is something like what SoE did with factions in the Desert of Ro area.  There are three major factions (plus several minor factions).  Gaining reputation with one faction through quests takes away from one or both of the other factions.  You can eventually earn reputation with all of them, but it is really difficult and is much slower than just gaining favor with one.

In ESO they could offer something similar, but if you engaged in pvp against any faction (killed their players or npcs) you would lose rep with that faction based on kills, conversely gaining faction with one or both other factions.

The contrived faction route they are taking is the easy way out.  Easy for design. Easier for balancing.  Easy on their budget.  Bad for depth and creating an engaging world.

the DAoC system is the best one I have come accross in any MMO I've tried and I've tried most. The differences and speration betwean realms really added to the game and although class balance was always an issue what it added to the game was so much more important.

PS. ToA fricken ruined DAoC. Post SI it was the best MMO in histroy.

Originally posted by health001
balance is boring,true MMO player can take any  classe and turn them into beasts:P

Agreed.Thats actually a factor im looking on to mmos and rpg's i play. Given ofc the tools by the devs so u can make a beast :P. I dont know if ESO will be a game with depth in character development. Hve missed many updates/news.

Originally posted by Vulturnus

the DAoC system is the best one I have come accross in any MMO I've tried and I've tried most. The differences and speration betwean realms really added to the game and although class balance was always an issue what it added to the game was so much more important.

PS. ToA fricken ruined DAoC. Post SI it was the best MMO in histroy.

You do realise that the Lead Dev who brought about ToA is the very same Lead Dev that is in charge of making TESO?

Just thought Id throw that tidbit out there for ya

Originally posted by PyrateLV

Originally posted by Vulturnus

the DAoC system is the best one I have come accross in any MMO I've tried and I've tried most. The differences and speration betwean realms really added to the game and although class balance was always an issue what it added to the game was so much more important.

PS. ToA fricken ruined DAoC. Post SI it was the best MMO in histroy.

You do realise that the Lead Dev who brought about ToA is the very same Lead Dev that is in charge of making TESO?

Just thought Id throw that tidbit out there for ya

You do realise everything you just said is wrong. Matt firor actually lost an internal power struggle because during the production in ToA he thought they should be focusing on the RvR portion of the game rather than adding PvE but seeing as how Mythic was made up of a lot of EQ lovers, they wanted to add PvE content. Nice try though

Originally posted by Darrgen

Originally posted by PyrateLV

Originally posted by Vulturnus

the DAoC system is the best one I have come accross in any MMO I've tried and I've tried most. The differences and speration betwean realms really added to the game and although class balance was always an issue what it added to the game was so much more important.

PS. ToA fricken ruined DAoC. Post SI it was the best MMO in histroy.

You do realise that the Lead Dev who brought about ToA is the very same Lead Dev that is in charge of making TESO?

Just thought Id throw that tidbit out there for ya

You do realise everything you just said is wrong. Matt firor actually lost an internal power struggle because during the production in ToA he thought they should be focusing on the RvR portion of the game rather than adding PvE but seeing as how Mythic was made up of a lot of EQ lovers, they wanted to add PvE content. Nice try though

Its not wrong. He is credited as the Lead Dev for ToA. Look it up

Creativity flourishes within fixed boundaries.

However, within the MMO space I feel it is strengthening to the community logevity to let these things be born from action and not planning.

EVE has massive factions created by huge groups of players that came together like particles of dust forming planets in space.

In fantasy one can imagine any species excelling in any field. There are always the flukes and the mutants. If you limit the players too much you will create troughs in which players will find themselves falling into.

From a story sense it makes a lot of sense to have 3 distinct starting zones and storylines that blend with the (we hope) open world. Characters (NPC) within the game can attempt to lead the players down certain paths of development depending what species/faction they belong to. If at leat some of the players are suade by this then you will see a difering relation of character types between the factions. Something we would all welcome from an immersion standpoint. There should be more Altmeri Mages than Barbarians, that's cannon.

I prefer a psychological motivation rather than a mechanical one when it comes to trying to sculpt diferences in the factions.

We all know too well that balancing is always the biggest issue. If there is to be a RvR type pvp element to the game then mechanical differences can be a nightmare to manage.

Either way I dearly hope TESO maintains the racial skill and attribute bonuses from the series. Even if they are a new amalgam of the previous stats that are better suited to a MMO.

Originally posted by pressedNutz

From a story sense it makes a lot of sense to have 3 distinct starting zones and storylines that blend with the (we hope) open world. Characters (NPC) within the game can attempt to lead the players down certain paths of development depending what species/faction they belong to. If at leat some of the players are suade by this then you will see a difering relation of character types between the factions. Something we would all welcome from an immersion standpoint. There should be more Altmeri Mages than Barbarians, that's cannon.

Yeah but the war should have never been racial, it should've been 3 different groups.  Everyone would start in the same area as they do now.  Each of the factions would own said areas.  It would be easier to join the faction in the area you started out with but you shouldn't be limited to that faction.  The racial war doesn't even make sense cannon-wise. 

The one thing that I keep seeing is the argument about the class differences on the factions.  Keep in mind that in this game, there aren't any classes.  The races may have a predisposition to a style of play, so that Elves, for example, may have a larger number of mages, but that doesn't preclude them from donning heavy armor and picking up the sword and board and becoming a truly formidable warrior.  

I honestly don't think the factions are going to play a major factor in who's better in RvR, since the choice on how you are going to play your character is based soley on how you play the character.  I think the hardest part, personally, is going to be sticking to one thing, and not creating a character that's just a complete mish mosh of skills and abilities. ;)

As for the groups that are the factions, if you read the lore about how they came about, and the time frame the game is in, it does make sense.  It's not about race, it's about location.  If you take the Dark Elf, Nord, Argonian alliance for example, ESO has flat out stated it's an alliance of convienience.  The Breton, Redguard, Orc alliance pulled the orcs  in as heavy lifters, because they knew they'd need it.  There's no racial connection.  The only alliance that is racially based is the Elf/Khajit alliance, and that's just because the elves are so long lived they've basically decided it's time they took it all back, especially since they built the place to begin with.

I do like the idea of being able to switch factions, but I'd make it insanely hard.  Something that would take a long time to complete.  You have to figure that the first part would be getting from one land to the other, without the inherent *regional* biases stopping them.  Then the person would have to prove that they were loyal to the new faction, and overcome the same biases before they were allowed to join.

Purely from a gameplay standpoint, I could see one issue being that this same thing would make RvR more complex and more confusing.  Not necessarily a bad thing from a player perspective.  Is that wood elf part of the normal faction or my enemy?  It certainly would be more realisitic to be sure.

Originally posted by health001
balance is boring,true MMO player can take any  classe and turn them into beasts:P

This, a thousand times, this! I don't know how many times I've used a class or weapon and everyone complained how OP it was and it gets nerfed...but I'm still using it, and still wrecking shop.

The locked factions really shouldn't bother anyone for a very simple reason - the devs have created a world that has a particular political standing at the time we enter it as players.  The alliances, etc, exist before our character is "born".

The game is based around war - a war with random factions for personal, random reasons has no weight, and does not tug at the sense of injustice or wrongness that motivates diverse people to participate.  You can RP your views, whatever they are, and try to change the world - that's also part of what makes a game great!  Changing the world is epic, whining that God (or the devs, in this case) didn't make it right and sulking is just dumb.