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Age of Wushu

Age of Wushu 

General Discussion  » The best economy and crafting in any MMO ive played

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59 posts found
  bcbully

Elite Member

Joined: 3/03/12
Posts: 6965

1/20/13 10:41:56 AM#21
Originally posted by Gdemami

 


Originally posted by bcbully

What you make is depended upon your skill. How proficiant you are. There are no "old" recipies. The better you are the better quality item you will make. 


 

No.

Only way to make better items is to get a better recipe.

That's not ture

 

 A novice blacksmith with the best dagger recipe in game will only make a 2nd tier ( iron quality) dagger that does minimal damage i.g. 8-14 dmg. 

 

A expert blacksmith will take the same recipe and make a 4th tier weapon (silver quality) with maximum damge 18-24. 

 

You have things to learn "little brother" 

  Darth-Batman

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/26/05
Posts: 707

Bruce, I am your father.

1/20/13 10:42:31 AM#22
Originally posted by Elsabolts

If your into crafting take alook at Vanguard ?

Vanguards crafting was terrible and an awful grind, not to mention a cheap knock off of EQ2's which was still better.

  GrayKodiak

Novice Member

Joined: 11/15/12
Posts: 576

1/20/13 10:45:53 AM#23
Originally posted by Sal1

I have enjoyed the crafting in Age Of Wushu. I am still learning how to do some things since it's a new game.

One of my characters is in the Craftsmen profession at the journeyman level now. I see a lot of people looking for the Huangpan hasp that is made by us. Do I need to get this recipe from one of the dungeons? 

or buy it from one of the stalls

Hasp and handles are essential for tailors and smiths, they can't craft the good stuff without it.

  Ice-Queen

Novice Member

Joined: 1/02/08
Posts: 2430

"Always borrow money from a pessimist. They won't expect it back."

1/20/13 10:51:41 AM#24
Cool glad you're enjoying the crafting. Nice to see some games focusing on it more.

What happens when you log off your characters????.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFQhfhnjYMk
Dark Age of Camelot

  BadSpock

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/21/04
Posts: 7677

Logic be damned!

1/20/13 10:53:35 AM#25

I like games where the loot economy balances the crafting economy.

Too much on the loot side, crafting is useless. Market is dominated by farmers and gold sellers.

Too far on the crafting side, loot is useless. Market is dominated by uber crafters that gouge prices and rape the market.

As with all things, has to have balance...

Just like in real life - markets have to be regulated. Pure capitalism is pure greed. Most MMO markets are not at all regulated - the only regulation comes from dev controlled scarcity (rarity) but it never does enough to combat inflation and predatory greed (and of course 3rd party currency manipulation.)

Most MMO economies are an afterthought, and those that are not are generally designed to have clear winners and losers and don't care much about fairness or the "average" user experience.

And any game system designed with the 10% (or 1%) in mind is NOT a well designed system.

 

Now Playing: D3:RoS, Watch Dogs
Looking Towards: Destiny

  Gdemami

Elite Member

Joined: 9/23/08
Posts: 6750

1/20/13 10:53:59 AM#26


Originally posted by bcbully

That's not ture

 

 A novice blacksmith with the best dagger recipe in game will only make a 2nd tier ( iron quality) dagger that does minimal damage i.g. 8-14 dmg. 

 

A expert blacksmith will take the same recipe and make a 4th tier weapon (silver quality) with maximum damge 18-24. 

 

You have things to learn "little brother" 


That's what I said. You need a better recipe...

  Burntvet

Elite Member

Joined: 11/16/07
Posts: 2716

1/20/13 10:56:49 AM#27

The crafting in this game is "nothing special".

SWG, Eve, Vanguard, and even Tales of the Desert (I think that is what it is/was called, I played it so long ago) are/were all significantly better.

I would put it on par with Fallen Earth maybe.

 

The economy is "crafting centric" as opposed to being loot centric, and that makes crafting more relevant than most games, but it does not make crafting itself any better.

Non-variable stats on materials/finished items and lack of ability to customize anything are big problems.

 

And further, with the limitations on xp and how crafting and other skills work without the "pills" (i.e. potions) of different types, I predict that the cash shop, when finally implemented will really, really throw a damper on things, and the specter of the dreaded "Asian Grinder" will rear its ugly head. Yet again.

 

 

  Thorkune

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 9/28/06
Posts: 1779

Dyslexics of the world...UNTIE!

1/20/13 11:13:00 AM#28
Originally posted by BadSpock

I like games where the loot economy balances the crafting economy.

Too much on the loot side, crafting is useless. Market is dominated by farmers and gold sellers.

Too far on the crafting side, loot is useless. Market is dominated by uber crafters that gouge prices and rape the market.

As with all things, has to have balance...

Just like in real life - markets have to be regulated. Pure capitalism is pure greed. Most MMO markets are not at all regulated - the only regulation comes from dev controlled scarcity (rarity) but it never does enough to combat inflation and predatory greed (and of course 3rd party currency manipulation.)

Most MMO economies are an afterthought, and those that are not are generally designed to have clear winners and losers and don't care much about fairness or the "average" user experience.

And any game system designed with the 10% (or 1%) in mind is NOT a well designed system.

 

Amen Spock

  bcbully

Elite Member

Joined: 3/03/12
Posts: 6965

1/20/13 11:15:19 AM#29
Originally posted by BadSpock

I like games where the loot economy balances the crafting economy.

Too much on the loot side, crafting is useless. Market is dominated by farmers and gold sellers.

Too far on the crafting side, loot is useless. Market is dominated by uber crafters that gouge prices and rape the market.

As with all things, has to have balance...

Just like in real life - markets have to be regulated. Pure capitalism is pure greed. Most MMO markets are not at all regulated - the only regulation comes from dev controlled scarcity (rarity) but it never does enough to combat inflation and predatory greed (and of course 3rd party currency manipulation.)

Most MMO economies are an afterthought, and those that are not are generally designed to have clear winners and losers and don't care much about fairness or the "average" user experience.

And any game system designed with the 10% (or 1%) in mind is NOT a well designed system.

 

Hmm.

 

The big money makers in AoW are rare skill books.  big as in 500silver up to about 2k silver on the super rare end(no skill is worth that much). If there is a rarity regulation tool, It's the amount of books able to be stolen during script steal events. If I'm not mistaken the amount of these books able to be stolen is being raised this coming week as part of a celebration event. 

 

That being said the little guy makes big money with hard work. For example a fully upgraded dagger can sell for 1k silver while a top tier (for the moment during this beta) made by a good blacksmith will net about 200 silver. What I found is that I can make about 8-10 weapons per day with out buying my ore from someone else. That's at minimum about 3 hours of farming ore. 

 

The economy is the game, it's definantly not an after thought here. Even population migration is in part tied to the economy. I'm not sure if I fully addressed you post, but this is the blend I see.

 

As for 3rd party manipulators, the 2 (got a new one yesterday) are selling for about 1-2$ less than what snail sells for. In this game in particular it will be very hard for a seller to have an effect. There are so many anit-bot farming things in place, including pkrs.

 

I've yet to see a bot. I see some people standing by nodes waiting for a respawn, me being the killer that I am, I ask "are you a bot" if I get no response, I attack.  8 out 10 times, I get someone saying "hey wait!!!" lol. The other 2 were most likely afk.

  GrayKodiak

Novice Member

Joined: 11/15/12
Posts: 576

1/20/13 12:20:46 PM#30
Originally posted by Burntvet

The crafting in this game is "nothing special".

SWG, Eve, Vanguard, and even Tales of the Desert (I think that is what it is/was called, I played it so long ago) are/were all significantly better.

I would put it on par with Fallen Earth maybe.

 

The economy is "crafting centric" as opposed to being loot centric, and that makes crafting more relevant than most games, but it does not make crafting itself any better.

Non-variable stats on materials/finished items and lack of ability to customize anything are big problems.

 

And further, with the limitations on xp and how crafting and other skills work without the "pills" (i.e. potions) of different types, I predict that the cash shop, when finally implemented will really, really throw a damper on things, and the specter of the dreaded "Asian Grinder" will rear its ugly head. Yet again.

 

 

I admit SWG galaxy had a great crafting system, top notch. It is unfortunately not around anymore. Eve also has a great, if not the greatest, crafting scene out right now...for what it is, eve takes place in space and not everyone wants to be a spaceship.

You mention non variable stats on finished items, this is not the case.. In fact high end crafters end up playing the random game of trying to make the perfect 4 lines of enhancements to get that super item. It is variable, it is random, it is a pain. Yes you can't name items, that would be nice. There isn't a WoW style jewel crafting system in here either, that would neither be good or bad in my opinion. But in the high end the sword you make will be for a different person that the sword that other guy makes due to stat/internal/dmgvsblock variables on the weapon.

 

  Burntvet

Elite Member

Joined: 11/16/07
Posts: 2716

1/20/13 12:41:54 PM#31
Originally posted by GrayKodiak
Originally posted by Burntvet

The crafting in this game is "nothing special".

SWG, Eve, Vanguard, and even Tales of the Desert (I think that is what it is/was called, I played it so long ago) are/were all significantly better.

I would put it on par with Fallen Earth maybe.

 

The economy is "crafting centric" as opposed to being loot centric, and that makes crafting more relevant than most games, but it does not make crafting itself any better.

Non-variable stats on materials/finished items and lack of ability to customize anything are big problems.

 

And further, with the limitations on xp and how crafting and other skills work without the "pills" (i.e. potions) of different types, I predict that the cash shop, when finally implemented will really, really throw a damper on things, and the specter of the dreaded "Asian Grinder" will rear its ugly head. Yet again.

 

 

I admit SWG galaxy had a great crafting system, top notch. It is unfortunately not around anymore. Eve also has a great, if not the greatest, crafting scene out right now...for what it is, eve takes place in space and not everyone wants to be a spaceship.

You mention non variable stats on finished items, this is not the case.. In fact high end crafters end up playing the random game of trying to make the perfect 4 lines of enhancements to get that super item. It is variable, it is random, it is a pain. Yes you can't name items, that would be nice. There isn't a WoW style jewel crafting system in here either, that would neither be good or bad in my opinion. But in the high end the sword you make will be for a different person that the sword that other guy makes due to stat/internal/dmgvsblock variables on the weapon.

 

 

Technically correct, but random at that point is not much fun: even there every max stat/line weapon will be the same. No room for naming or changing the color or appearance of anything. And again, the more important part of viable stats would be from the non-standard values of resources/components/ingredients, but all of that is not there... just a random roll, sometimes, at the end of things giving a small random difference on a predetermined stat bar inside a bunch of "sameness". In the end, it is a small enough bit to say "So What?"
  bcbully

Elite Member

Joined: 3/03/12
Posts: 6965

1/20/13 12:48:59 PM#32
Originally posted by Burntvet

 

 

Technically correct, but random at that point is not much fun: even there every max stat/line weapon will be the same. No room for naming or changing the color or appearance of anything. And again, the more important part of viable stats would be from the non-standard values of resources/components/ingredients, but all of that is not there... just a random roll, sometimes, at the end of things giving a small random difference on a predetermined stat bar inside a bunch of "sameness". In the end, it is a small enough bit to say "So What?"

Stat lines are different depending on the crafter. It would be neat to change color and apperance though :)

  GrayKodiak

Novice Member

Joined: 11/15/12
Posts: 576

1/20/13 1:16:07 PM#33
Originally posted by Burntvet
Originally posted by GrayKodiak
Originally posted by Burntvet

The crafting in this game is "nothing special".

SWG, Eve, Vanguard, and even Tales of the Desert (I think that is what it is/was called, I played it so long ago) are/were all significantly better.

I would put it on par with Fallen Earth maybe.

 

The economy is "crafting centric" as opposed to being loot centric, and that makes crafting more relevant than most games, but it does not make crafting itself any better.

Non-variable stats on materials/finished items and lack of ability to customize anything are big problems.

 

And further, with the limitations on xp and how crafting and other skills work without the "pills" (i.e. potions) of different types, I predict that the cash shop, when finally implemented will really, really throw a damper on things, and the specter of the dreaded "Asian Grinder" will rear its ugly head. Yet again.

 

 

I admit SWG galaxy had a great crafting system, top notch. It is unfortunately not around anymore. Eve also has a great, if not the greatest, crafting scene out right now...for what it is, eve takes place in space and not everyone wants to be a spaceship.

You mention non variable stats on finished items, this is not the case.. In fact high end crafters end up playing the random game of trying to make the perfect 4 lines of enhancements to get that super item. It is variable, it is random, it is a pain. Yes you can't name items, that would be nice. There isn't a WoW style jewel crafting system in here either, that would neither be good or bad in my opinion. But in the high end the sword you make will be for a different person that the sword that other guy makes due to stat/internal/dmgvsblock variables on the weapon.

 

 

Technically correct, but random at that point is not much fun: even there every max stat/line weapon will be the same. No room for naming or changing the color or appearance of anything. And again, the more important part of viable stats would be from the non-standard values of resources/components/ingredients, but all of that is not there... just a random roll, sometimes, at the end of things giving a small random difference on a predetermined stat bar inside a bunch of "sameness". In the end, it is a small enough bit to say "So What?"

I have to wonder if you have crafted a high end item and tried to fit it to what you actually want. It is not easy.

Lets say you make a sword, there is a chance that it will be good enough quality to enhance so you go find a cook and he enhances it, then there is a chance that after that it may get another enhancement...so you find a blacksmith to enhance it...then there is a chance that after that second chance you may be able to enhance it again...so you find another cook...then...well you get the idea, the hard part is that you don't get to control the enhancement. You may get a weapon enhancement, you may get a scholar skill enhancement or a wudang skill enhancement, you may get a block breaking enhancement. So if you want a sword with enhanced block breaker x 3 and enhancement to the breeze sword line...well good luck your gonna need a lot of ore a lot of silver a lot of enhancement mats and a lot of luck.

Variables based on resources would be interesting but probably not going to happen. I do like cosmetic changes on items, you rarely see MMO's these days inclue a "Dye" option which would be nice. Lotro has one, UO had a few different methods of changing color (either ore or dye depending on item).

  Vorthanion

Elite Member

Joined: 7/02/11
Posts: 1882

1/20/13 1:26:52 PM#34
I'm glad you found a game you like, but I'm really getting tired of MMOs forcing the majority if not all of the loot rewards into a singular play style while denying it to others.  I think it's a better approach to reward all play styles equally, that way people can get the rewards they want in the manner they want, instead of being funneled into raiding or completely dependent on crafters which in turn reduces the rewarding feeling of adventuring or giving it all to the PvPers.  I'm still waiting for a game that isn't purposefully creating caste systems among its player base.

  bcbully

Elite Member

Joined: 3/03/12
Posts: 6965

1/20/13 1:39:54 PM#35
Originally posted by Vorthanion
I'm glad you found a game you like, but I'm really getting tired of MMOs forcing the majority if not all of the loot rewards into a singular play style while denying it to others.  I think it's a better approach to reward all play styles equally, that way people can get the rewards they want in the manner they want, instead of being funneled into raiding or completely dependent on crafters which in turn reduces the rewarding feeling of adventuring or giving it all to the PvPers.  I'm still waiting for a game that isn't purposefully creating caste systems among its player base.

It's pretty wild the number of times I've heard people describe a thing, and AoW be exactly that, or real close too. 

 

Here for example you don't weapon drops or clothing well, you do get clothing from random world chest. You make it or buy/trade for it. Everything else is just about exactly as you would like.

 

edit- no hard caste systems either ;)

  Vorthanion

Elite Member

Joined: 7/02/11
Posts: 1882

1/20/13 1:55:06 PM#36
Originally posted by bcbully
Originally posted by Vorthanion
I'm glad you found a game you like, but I'm really getting tired of MMOs forcing the majority if not all of the loot rewards into a singular play style while denying it to others.  I think it's a better approach to reward all play styles equally, that way people can get the rewards they want in the manner they want, instead of being funneled into raiding or completely dependent on crafters which in turn reduces the rewarding feeling of adventuring or giving it all to the PvPers.  I'm still waiting for a game that isn't purposefully creating caste systems among its player base.

It's pretty wild the number of times I've heard people describe a thing, and AoW be exactly that, or real close too. 

 

Here for example you don't weapon drops or clothing well, you do get clothing from random world chest. You make it or buy/trade for it. Everything else is just about exactly as you would like.

 

edit- no hard caste systems either ;)

I'm sorry, but how do clothing drops equate to viability of loot for people who only want to adventure?  It would seem that whether you PvP, Adventure or Explore, you are still completely dependent on crafters for the majority of items you need to participate in those endeavors, such as weapons, armor, potions and whatever else the game requires for them.  They are merely taking the raiding paradigm and putting it into crafting instead.  At least in those raiding games, you could still get decent rewards for most play styles before you reached end game.  Doesn't sound like you do in this game, it sounds just like Horizons where all of the drops are crafting related and I hated that game for that very reason.

  Sal1

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/08/11
Posts: 172

1/20/13 2:33:26 PM#37
Originally posted by Vorthanion

I'm sorry, but how do clothing drops equate to viability of loot for people who only want to adventure?  It would seem that whether you PvP, Adventure or Explore, you are still completely dependent on crafters for the majority of items you need to participate in those endeavors, such as weapons, armor, potions and whatever else the game requires for them.  They are merely taking the raiding paradigm and putting it into crafting instead.  At least in those raiding games, you could still get decent rewards for most play styles before you reached end game.  Doesn't sound like you do in this game, it sounds just like Horizons where all of the drops are crafting related and I hated that game for that very reason.

You do get very valuable drops from dungeon runs or raids or whatever you want to call them in Age of Wushu. You won't get a high level sword. But you will get items that you can sell for good amounts of silver then turn around and buy that nice high level sword. I realize that adds steps you don't care to do. But you can play this game without crafting a single thing.

  Spiider

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/15/05
Posts: 418

1/20/13 2:34:45 PM#38
So age of wushu crafting is better than Wurm, Salem, Xsyon and Istaria crafting? Any player build housing of terraforming?

No fate but what we make, so make me a ham sandwich please.

  Biskop

Novice Member

Joined: 10/06/11
Posts: 731

1/20/13 2:36:36 PM#39
Vorthanion

What you describe would go against the idea of the game, i.e. to have a player-run economy. If you could get good stuff no matter what you do, crafters wouldn't be needed, people would be self-sufficient, and the economy would be dead. Someone would find the least resistance route to fast gear and everyone would just grind away at that until the whole server are equally equipped.

And besides it's not like you have to be a crafter in this game, you just have to interact with crafters once in a while. You're free to do whatever you want, you just need to make money somehow - which is very doable without crafting a single item.
  Gdemami

Elite Member

Joined: 9/23/08
Posts: 6750

1/20/13 3:03:39 PM#40


Originally posted by Vorthanion

They are merely taking the raiding paradigm and putting it into crafting instead.  At least in those raiding games, you could still get decent rewards for most play styles before you reached end game. 

AoW isn't much different in concept from any average game, it is basically usual end game content - dunegon/raiding and PVP, without quest progression.

And crafting reflects and fits that scheme.

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