Originally posted by steamtank

EvE has a great tutorial

Eve didn't used to really have much of a tutorial. Everyone complained about how hard it was and it needed a better one.

Now people are complaining because games do have tutorials. Trust me, EVE needs a tutorial. There is so much to do, it is not intuitive. 

If all you have to do is swing a sword more forward or back maybe pick up loot, I don't care if there is a tutorial or not. but seriously when an MMO is complex, because it allow players to do hundreds of different things in the game. You need some sort of tutorial.

Originally posted by Konfess
Really there is no sarcasm in that.

Double sarcasm :)

Originally posted by bcbully

Please get rid of tutorials.

 

I think they do more harm than good for first impressions. After trying a new beta still under NDA, I just had to stop and say "man this sucks." Now I wasn't talking about the game it's self, because that felt good, real good, but the tutorial made me exit game.

 

Give me a clear concise help center/guide/maual then let me figure it out. Stop this bad tutorial nonsense.

 

/endrant

So OP you were playing Defiance beta?

We wouldn't need tutorials if the highly arrogant guys who think they were gods gift to gaming would actually get off their high horse for a few seconds to lend aid to a guy who just asked a simple question.

On the flip side, we wouldn't NEED to ask those questions if the games tutorials weren't so shoddily designed or so forced in the first place.

The problem isn't that tutorials exist, it's that making good ones seems to have become a rare artform.

The first experience I ever had in a MMORPG tutorial was in '99 with EQ... they have been around for a long time.

I honestly cannot see why anyone would have an issue with them, let alone enough to post about.

Is it a slow news week?

Tutorials are fine, and to be honest should be there the more complex your game is. Most of us on this site have progressed with this genre through the early days. So all of the incremental advancements and features throughout the years come natural to us.

However, throw a total newbie to MMO's or even a newbie to gaming in with out a tutorial and the out come is likely a brief period of frustration.

Think of it this way. A lot of console gamers grew up with NES games. All you had was a d-pad, A, B, select, and start buttons. That's it! Games were very straight forward and intuitive (at least good ones) so you didn't really need a tutorial. If you had questions, you could look at the manual.

These same console gamers have adapted and grew up with the console industry. When the SNES came out, we now had X,Y,L,R buttons added to the controller. This was an incremental change, and we adapted.

Now comes N64. We have an Analog stick, Z button, and acouple others! Again we adapted with it, because it was an incremental change.

Now fast forward to the current gen, and we have Dual Analogs, d-pad, Four face buttons, 4 Shoulder buttons (2 on each side), and the dual analogs are buttons too! Again we adapted because this was still incremental. However, throw a new gamer into a modern console game, and they will need time to figure out what the hell is going on. Some will learn quickly, others will take more time and that is where tutorials come into play.

With all that said, i think the idea of forced tutorials need to go the way of the dodo. The market obviously has many seasoned gamers, but at the same time new gamers as well. The older gamers should not be forced to relearn how to aim for the 1000th time, or that a quest is a thing you do to get loot and exp. So in short I say keep tutorials, but do not force them upon us.

Originally posted by Alcuin
EQ1 had an offline tutorial from day one. It was entirely optional, and honestly more of a theme park type "quest" than anything else in that game.

Ahh haha...I forgot about that tutorial. I used to play that when the servers were down or was having problems with internet. Needed to get my fix. :)

I don't remember a tutorial for EQ1, might have bene there I just don't recall, it was a long time ago.  I do remember not having a clue what to do for the first bit.

Games need tutorials for people who have never played before (any game), but they should have a way to turn those tutorials off or skip them for the rest of us.

I got my GF started in WoW 3-4 years ago, there wasn't a tutorial.  She had never played a computer game before, she didn't know how to move, pick things up, swing a sword.  Nothing. 

I would say tutorials are a must for people who want tutorials.

What they coud do is give a player the choice. "Enter Tutorial mission" or "enter world".

Make it so that the tutorial can be entered at any time should the player want it.

Well, NWNO, Meridian 59, The Realm, and UO(not until years later) did not have a tutorial, Asherons Call 1 sure didnt, they just dumped you into the world and you had to hope you found the quest that sends you into the nearest town or you are pretty damn lost :p

EverQuest 1 had the first MMORPG tutorial and since most MMOs released after that were EQ clones, you may blame EQ for them.

Also, almost every game I have seen a tutorial in had an option to turn it off.

I believe Tutorials are very well needed for A LOT of players.

they serve as introduction to the game and...

they usually give you some kind of reward for doing them anyway!

Usually u can skip them after the first run....or even b4

Some MMORPGS really need a Tutorial....

I disagree srry OP.

Originally posted by bcbully

Please get rid of tutorials.

 

I think they do more harm than good for first impressions. After trying a new beta still under NDA, I just had to stop and say "man this sucks." Now I wasn't talking about the game it's self, because that felt good, real good, but the tutorial made me exit game.

 

Give me a clear concise help center/guide/maual then let me figure it out. Stop this bad tutorial nonsense.

 

/endrant

Back when I was a in game Counselor for Ultima Online on Baja Shard. I found that most players are stupid. i remember 1 time, i took a call from a player. The player didn't know how to get on the boat.

But most games you can turn the tutorials off right?

And besides......who reads the manuals, really.

Originally posted by wallet113

The player didn't know how to get on the boat.

Boats in UO are actually a wonderful example of non-intuitive interface which is completely obvious only once you know how to do it, But for first-timers, it feels like some random code of secret clicks to place the boat, use the key on a particular small point on the side of the boat (from close enough), then click on it again to lower the gangplank.  I have no trouble believing that perfectly intelligent players could get a mental block after trying the key a few times and having it apparently do nothing.

Originally posted by bcbully

Please get rid of tutorials. 

Um .. no, please don't. 

Do make them optional/skippable.

Do make them unobtrusive, plot-wise, so if you are doing the tutorial it isn't a whole awfull contrived artificial quest line.

Do make them compartmentalised, so that you can get help later in the game when a new feature unlocks.

Do make them repeatable .. in case you don't play a game for a month, come back, and find yourself staring at the screen for a few seconds beyond your comfort point.