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Hardware  » Help with new pc build

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  GrayGhost79

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/30/08
Posts: 4889

1/18/13 7:25:08 PM#21
Originally posted by Ridelynn

 


Originally posted by GrayGhost79
You're kind of all over the place here. If it is solely for Gaming and Web browsing that CPU and MB are overkill. 

 

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819106009

  AMD FX-4170 Zambezi 4.2GHz its going to give you better stock speeds out of the box and it's all your going to need for your purposes. On top of that it's only $120 so close to half the price. 

 

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157280

  ASRock 970 EXTREME3 AM3+ AMD 970 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX AMD Motherboard$85

 

With just those 2 changes you've cut out about $230 in your build. 

 

 

 

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151095

  SeaSonic M12II 620 Bronze 620W $79

 

so you are up to about $330 saved now which equals a faster stock system + a GPU :P 

 

You don't need a lot for gaming. 

 


 

US Newegg site, CA site is a bit different.

You'd get a FX4170 over a FX6300, even though it's $10 difference? Over a FX-4300, even though it's the same price?

Keep in mind the difference between Vishera and Zambezi cores...

The only issue I've ever had with AMD is the more cores, the less power per core. With most games not being multi threaded the more cores you have have the less your actually getting out of it for gaming purposes. So I try to stick with quad cores when it's soley for gaming. 

 

You are correct on the 4300 though, that was an oversight on my part. 

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

1/18/13 7:43:27 PM#22
The AMD chips with 1 as 2nd number ate old bulldozer chips. Do not buy.

The ones with 3 as second number are the new piledriver chips and are much better value for money.
  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

1/18/13 7:46:02 PM#23
Also you want the 6300 as a mid range chip or the 8320 as a approaching high chip all else are not worth it.
  GrayGhost79

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/30/08
Posts: 4889

1/18/13 9:50:21 PM#24
Originally posted by ShakyMo
Also you want the 6300 as a mid range chip or the 8320 as a approaching high chip all else are not worth it.

Nah, if gaming and web browsing are the only tasks for the computer these are a waste. I mean off the rip you'd have to overclock the 6300 to match the stock speed of the 4300. Then to get similar gaming performance you'd have to disable modules. It's a waste really. By the time those 2 extra core will make a difference that gen of CPU will be obsolete. 

  Quizzical

Guide

Joined: 12/11/08
Posts: 13667

1/18/13 10:17:17 PM#25
Originally posted by GrayGhost79
Originally posted by ShakyMo
Also you want the 6300 as a mid range chip or the 8320 as a approaching high chip all else are not worth it.

Nah, if gaming and web browsing are the only tasks for the computer these are a waste. I mean off the rip you'd have to overclock the 6300 to match the stock speed of the 4300. Then to get similar gaming performance you'd have to disable modules. It's a waste really. By the time those 2 extra core will make a difference that gen of CPU will be obsolete. 

It's entirely plausible that four or five years from now, an FX-6300 will still be viable albeit dated due to having six cores, while an FX-4300 will choke on some games.  Today, a 3 GHz Core 2 Quad is still viable, while a 3 GHz Core 2 Duo really can't handle some games.

There's also the issue that if you're going to use three cores, an FX-6300 can put them on three separate modules, while an FX-4300 has to use two cores from the same module, and the shared scheduling resources are a meaningful bottleneck there.

  GrayGhost79

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/30/08
Posts: 4889

1/19/13 7:56:39 AM#26
Originally posted by Quizzical
Originally posted by GrayGhost79
Originally posted by ShakyMo
Also you want the 6300 as a mid range chip or the 8320 as a approaching high chip all else are not worth it.

Nah, if gaming and web browsing are the only tasks for the computer these are a waste. I mean off the rip you'd have to overclock the 6300 to match the stock speed of the 4300. Then to get similar gaming performance you'd have to disable modules. It's a waste really. By the time those 2 extra core will make a difference that gen of CPU will be obsolete. 

It's entirely plausible that four or five years from now, an FX-6300 will still be viable albeit dated due to having six cores, while an FX-4300 will choke on some games.  Today, a 3 GHz Core 2 Quad is still viable, while a 3 GHz Core 2 Duo really can't handle some games.

There's also the issue that if you're going to use three cores, an FX-6300 can put them on three separate modules, while an FX-4300 has to use two cores from the same module, and the shared scheduling resources are a meaningful bottleneck there.

Again, not for gaming purposes. If he were doing video editing or something more CPU intensive you would have a point. But there would be no bottlenecking with the 4300 for gaming. 

In 4 or 5 years the FX 6300 may eventually out shine the 4300 for purely gaming purposes, you could be right about that... But in 4 to 5 years I hope an individual with either of these will be looking to upgrade as both will both be low end for gaming if much use at all. 

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

1/19/13 8:33:27 AM#27
Just look at toms hardware or overclockers.

The 6300 benches ON GAMES the same as an i5 2500k. The 8350 benches the same as the i5 3570k. The 4300 and the older bulldozers bench the same as high end i3s.
  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

1/19/13 8:41:03 AM#28
Also with the fx chips they can pool 2 cores into 1 faster core. Most modern games want a quad core. All games use 2 threads one for the main process loop, one for handling graphics. With the 6 core it can turbo 4 cores into 2 faster cores to handle these, leaving 2 original cores to handle windows back ground tasks or any additional threads the game spawns. With the quad core, 2 cores get paired to handle the main loop and your just left with 1 un turboed core to handle the graphics, and another to handle windows / additional threads.

In effect your fx4300 ends up running 1 fast core and 2 slow ones. The fx6300 ends up running two fast cores / two slow ones or 3 fast ones depending on the game. The 83xx ends up running pretty much like a good quad core.
  GrayGhost79

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/30/08
Posts: 4889

1/19/13 8:50:03 AM#29
Originally posted by ShakyMo
Also with the fx chips they can pool 2 cores into 1 faster core. Most modern games want a quad core. All games use 2 threads one for the main process loop, one for handling graphics. With the 6 core it can turbo 4 cores into 2 faster cores to handle these, leaving 2 original cores to handle windows back ground tasks or any additional threads the game spawns. With the quad core, 2 cores get paired to handle the main loop and your just left with 1 un turboed core to handle the graphics, and another to handle windows / additional threads.

In effect your fx4300 ends up running 1 fast core and 2 slow ones. The fx6300 ends up running two fast cores / two slow ones or 3 fast ones depending on the game. The 83xx ends up running pretty much like a good quad core.

I just checked tomshardware the only comparison for the 4300 to 6300 said pretty much the exact same thing I said lol. May want to post your link. 

 

The 83XX jumps the price up by enough to count out a 7870 or higher GPU like the OP wanted to get eventually which I managed to squeeze in now by freeing up 300+ 

 

FX 4300 + Nice GPU is simply the better way to go for gaming purposes considering the 83xx will leave him without a GPU until later, at least without a decent GPU. 

  Quizzical

Guide

Joined: 12/11/08
Posts: 13667

1/19/13 11:20:46 AM#30
Originally posted by GrayGhost79
Originally posted by Quizzical
Originally posted by GrayGhost79
Originally posted by ShakyMo
Also you want the 6300 as a mid range chip or the 8320 as a approaching high chip all else are not worth it.

Nah, if gaming and web browsing are the only tasks for the computer these are a waste. I mean off the rip you'd have to overclock the 6300 to match the stock speed of the 4300. Then to get similar gaming performance you'd have to disable modules. It's a waste really. By the time those 2 extra core will make a difference that gen of CPU will be obsolete. 

It's entirely plausible that four or five years from now, an FX-6300 will still be viable albeit dated due to having six cores, while an FX-4300 will choke on some games.  Today, a 3 GHz Core 2 Quad is still viable, while a 3 GHz Core 2 Duo really can't handle some games.

There's also the issue that if you're going to use three cores, an FX-6300 can put them on three separate modules, while an FX-4300 has to use two cores from the same module, and the shared scheduling resources are a meaningful bottleneck there.

Again, not for gaming purposes. If he were doing video editing or something more CPU intensive you would have a point. But there would be no bottlenecking with the 4300 for gaming. 

In 4 or 5 years the FX 6300 may eventually out shine the 4300 for purely gaming purposes, you could be right about that... But in 4 to 5 years I hope an individual with either of these will be looking to upgrade as both will both be low end for gaming if much use at all. 

And what exactly will that upgrade be?  To something with more cores--and not necessarily faster cores.  And what does the FX-6300 have as compared to the FX-4300?  More cores.

If it were a $100 price difference, then sure, get the FX-4300.  Even for a $50 price difference.  But if paying an extra $10 up front lets you get another year of good life out of your machine before you have to replace the CPU, motherboard, and memory, I say that's money well spent.

  GrayGhost79

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/30/08
Posts: 4889

1/19/13 3:37:32 PM#31
Originally posted by Quizzical
Originally posted by GrayGhost79
Originally posted by Quizzical
Originally posted by GrayGhost79
Originally posted by ShakyMo
Also you want the 6300 as a mid range chip or the 8320 as a approaching high chip all else are not worth it.

Nah, if gaming and web browsing are the only tasks for the computer these are a waste. I mean off the rip you'd have to overclock the 6300 to match the stock speed of the 4300. Then to get similar gaming performance you'd have to disable modules. It's a waste really. By the time those 2 extra core will make a difference that gen of CPU will be obsolete. 

It's entirely plausible that four or five years from now, an FX-6300 will still be viable albeit dated due to having six cores, while an FX-4300 will choke on some games.  Today, a 3 GHz Core 2 Quad is still viable, while a 3 GHz Core 2 Duo really can't handle some games.

There's also the issue that if you're going to use three cores, an FX-6300 can put them on three separate modules, while an FX-4300 has to use two cores from the same module, and the shared scheduling resources are a meaningful bottleneck there.

Again, not for gaming purposes. If he were doing video editing or something more CPU intensive you would have a point. But there would be no bottlenecking with the 4300 for gaming. 

In 4 or 5 years the FX 6300 may eventually out shine the 4300 for purely gaming purposes, you could be right about that... But in 4 to 5 years I hope an individual with either of these will be looking to upgrade as both will both be low end for gaming if much use at all. 

And what exactly will that upgrade be?  To something with more cores--and not necessarily faster cores.  And what does the FX-6300 have as compared to the FX-4300?  More cores.

If it were a $100 price difference, then sure, get the FX-4300.  Even for a $50 price difference.  But if paying an extra $10 up front lets you get another year of good life out of your machine before you have to replace the CPU, motherboard, and memory, I say that's money well spent.

It's not just paying an extra $10, it requires overclocking to be on par with the 4300 first off and thats not an overly good idea with a stock cooler. Secondly its going to require disabling a module on top of the over clocking to be on par game performance wise with the 4300. 

These things tend to be better left with seasoned builders. 

And again with a $50 price difference you downgrade the possible GPU choices, which isn't in the same as what I was attempting to do. My choices leave room in the budget to get the GPU the OP wants now instead of waiting a couple of months on top of giving him a PC that will do high end gaming for years to come all for the same $900.

(My bad, for some reason misread the part about $50, you seem to say if there was a $50 difference then grab the 4300 and I misread it.) 

  Ridelynn

Elite Member

Joined: 12/19/10
Posts: 3575

1/19/13 3:50:45 PM#32


Originally posted by GrayGhost79
It's not just paying an extra $10, it requires overclocking to be on par with the 4300 first off and thats not an overly good idea with a stock cooler. Secondly its going to require disabling a module on top of the over clocking to be on par game performance wise with the 4300. 

These things tend to be better left with seasoned builders. 

And again with a $50 price difference you downgrade the possible GPU choices, which isn't in the same as what I was attempting to do. My choices leave room in the budget to get the GPU the OP wants now instead of waiting a couple of months on top of giving him a PC that will do high end gaming for years to come all for the same $900.

(My bad, for some reason misread the part about $50, you seem to say if there was a $50 difference then grab the 4300 and I misread it.) 


This doesn't seem to be the case:

True, the FX4300 is stock 3.8/4.0, while the FX6300 is only 3.5/4.1.

But that TurboCore frequency is higher, stock, and it has more cache.

Here are some real-world benchmark comparisons, at stock clocks:
AnandTech FX4300 vs FX6300

If we ignore many of the "benchmark" benchmarks, and focus on the gaming numbers (D3, SC2, Skyrim, DAO, WoW, DoWII): we don't see much difference, but at stock clocks, even though the FX6300 has a slightly lower base clock, it consistantly performs slightly better. Out of the 6 or so games that are on the benchmark suite, there is only one example where the higher base clock of the FX4300 lets it turn in slightly better performance than the FX6300.

If the chip required an overclock to be competitive, we'd see the reverse: the FX4300 consistently (slightly) on top. It does prove that we don't really need 6 cores, but for $10, and a consistent (if slight) performance advantage, you Do Not Need To Overclock this chip to equal the slightly faster, lower core count FX-4300, and the "has less power to deliver to the cores" argument may hold up while overclocking, but certainly does not appear true at stock clocks.


Now these samples are all probably within the margin of error, but the fact that it consistantly leans to the 6300, even if slightly, makes me think that higher base clock of the 4300 doesn't beat the higher TurboCore clock and bigger cache of the 6300.

  Quizzical

Guide

Joined: 12/11/08
Posts: 13667

1/19/13 6:35:35 PM#33
Originally posted by GrayGhost79
Originally posted by Quizzical
Originally posted by GrayGhost79
Originally posted by Quizzical
Originally posted by GrayGhost79
Originally posted by ShakyMo
Also you want the 6300 as a mid range chip or the 8320 as a approaching high chip all else are not worth it.

Nah, if gaming and web browsing are the only tasks for the computer these are a waste. I mean off the rip you'd have to overclock the 6300 to match the stock speed of the 4300. Then to get similar gaming performance you'd have to disable modules. It's a waste really. By the time those 2 extra core will make a difference that gen of CPU will be obsolete. 

It's entirely plausible that four or five years from now, an FX-6300 will still be viable albeit dated due to having six cores, while an FX-4300 will choke on some games.  Today, a 3 GHz Core 2 Quad is still viable, while a 3 GHz Core 2 Duo really can't handle some games.

There's also the issue that if you're going to use three cores, an FX-6300 can put them on three separate modules, while an FX-4300 has to use two cores from the same module, and the shared scheduling resources are a meaningful bottleneck there.

Again, not for gaming purposes. If he were doing video editing or something more CPU intensive you would have a point. But there would be no bottlenecking with the 4300 for gaming. 

In 4 or 5 years the FX 6300 may eventually out shine the 4300 for purely gaming purposes, you could be right about that... But in 4 to 5 years I hope an individual with either of these will be looking to upgrade as both will both be low end for gaming if much use at all. 

And what exactly will that upgrade be?  To something with more cores--and not necessarily faster cores.  And what does the FX-6300 have as compared to the FX-4300?  More cores.

If it were a $100 price difference, then sure, get the FX-4300.  Even for a $50 price difference.  But if paying an extra $10 up front lets you get another year of good life out of your machine before you have to replace the CPU, motherboard, and memory, I say that's money well spent.

It's not just paying an extra $10, it requires overclocking to be on par with the 4300 first off and thats not an overly good idea with a stock cooler. Secondly its going to require disabling a module on top of the over clocking to be on par game performance wise with the 4300. 

These things tend to be better left with seasoned builders. 

And again with a $50 price difference you downgrade the possible GPU choices, which isn't in the same as what I was attempting to do. My choices leave room in the budget to get the GPU the OP wants now instead of waiting a couple of months on top of giving him a PC that will do high end gaming for years to come all for the same $900.

(My bad, for some reason misread the part about $50, you seem to say if there was a $50 difference then grab the 4300 and I misread it.) 

Why would you want to make an FX-6300 merely be on par with an FX-4300 when normally it's faster?  You can make a Core i7-3770K perform on par with a Core i3-3220 by disabling stuff, too, but why would you?

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

1/19/13 7:38:31 PM#34
Quiz
When I mentioned the 6300 had more cache, its not just l3 cache, 8 vs 4 its also l2 cache 6 vs 4.
  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

1/19/13 7:42:09 PM#35
Also your right re the tests, playing mid range games with a low end gpu on low settings, possibly the old 4 core is faster.

But I recently updated my gpu to a 7950. And playing ps2 with my old 4 core was disappointed with frame rate because my old 4100 was trotting me. Stick a 6300 in, I'm impressed can play every game I own at a solid 60+, even ps2 in really big battles I only trough to like 45.
  Quizzical

Guide

Joined: 12/11/08
Posts: 13667

1/19/13 7:59:12 PM#36
Originally posted by ShakyMo
Quiz
When I mentioned the 6300 had more cache, its not just l3 cache, 8 vs 4 its also l2 cache 6 vs 4.

The L2 cache is 2 MB per module.  If you're only using one core, then you effectively only get 2 MB of L2 cache.  More total L2 cache is because the processor has more modules, which is because it has more cores.  That's not really a separate advantage from having more cores.

  Asm0deus

Elite Member

Joined: 9/06/10
Posts: 920

 
OP  1/24/13 10:37:15 PM#37

Thank you everyone for the input and advice. 

I have went with the i5-3570k with the msi z77a gd65  MB  along with the storm enforcer case and lastly I decided to stick with the seasonic psu .

I will get the 212 evo cooler as well as an extra top exhaust megaflow fan for the case.

 

The amd build was interesting but I rather have a intel build

case: Coolermaster HAF932
PSU: Antec EA 750watt
RAM: 2x2g G-SKILL DDR3-1600mhz 9-9-9-24
Mb:Gigabyte GA-P55-UD4P
CPU: i5-750 @4ghz
GPU: gtx msi N760 TF 2GD5/OC
cooling: Noctua NH-D14
storage: seagate 600 240GB SSD, 500GB x7200rpm HDD

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