Originally posted by jpnz

Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter

Originally posted by jpnz

 

Xfire shows a decline / incline of a portion of the playerbase across games.

Statistically speaking, it is large / good enough to be a 'random sample'.

XFire can be many things.

One thing XFire isn't is a random sample.

And the facts backing that it isn't a random sample is...???

Last I checked, Xfire is fairly large across multiple games (esp GW2) to be considered a 'sample'.

It has no 'bias selection' for any one game (be it LoL or GW2 or D3 or WoW or w/e) which satisfies the 'an equal chance of being selected from the entire population'.

Whether the analysis done on the random sample is correct or not is another issue, from a pure stats point of view, it matches all the criteria of a 'random sample'.

 

'But you have to install it!' is a hilarious argument. By this logic, 'you have to answer the phone / fill out a paper / talk to someone' can be used against every survey done.

I mean c'mon.. this is Stat 101. -.-

Random sample - every member of a group has to have an equal and independent chance of being selected.

If you don't use XFire you have no chance of being selected.

XFire user is a sub population.

Second. XFire isn't a sample of XFire users - it is the actual number.

Third - phone was much more widespread than XFire.

Fourth - polling companies had to change how they poll by phone since amongst younger people it became rarer for people to have fixed phones.

Fifth - while one will have to fill out a paper or talk to someone, they have the exact same change of being randomly selected, at urn exits they all are voters.

Sixth - polls don't replace elections.

Seventh - you need to retake (or take it for the first time) stat 101.

Eight - have you noticed that WoW dropped from 90K hours in January 2012 to 25K hours in January 2013?

That pretty much every MMORPG lost at least 50% of its population in that time frame?

So did WoW lost 66% of its population in 1 year?

Did the MMORPGs lost 50%?

Or is XFire just becoming smaller and smaller and less representative of game habits/preferences?

Originally posted by jpnz

Xfire doesn't have selection bias cause there are no bias on a particular game.

some games run promotions encouraging players to signup

http://www.xfire.com/cms/rop2wofficialrules/

During GameSamba promtion - any user who enters the code "xifre" in game will receive:
1 - 30 day mount
1 - Level 30 scroll (instantly levels to 30 which includes 150,000 Gold)
1 - 100% Booster Scroll

thats a bias

Originally posted by nerbon

Originally posted by botrytis

Originally posted by nerbon

Originally posted by Marcus-

Originally posted by nerbon
you can see the statistic on xfire... or do you think only xfire players got bored smashing 3 buttons

hmm

 

i think they grew bored because they were doing wrong.  I enjoy the combat, and use a wee bit more than 3 buttons 

 

log in gw2..count buttons... see the timer on buttons and push them

Or log into Rift or WoW - get confused with all the skill bars and what they do - try to macro things to make it to 10 buttons. OH WAIT GW2 already has only 10 - WOW so much easier to play.

 

never played rift but i enjoyed wow much more then gw2...i got my char to lvl 80 in gw2 ..pvp was boring ...wvw was like the cheap version of warhammer online

Now I know you haven't played GW2, you are just here to troll and bash GW2.

Originally posted by jpnz

Originally posted by botrytis

Originally posted by jpnz

Originally posted by botrytis

 

It is biased, if you have to install it - that is a bias. That is STATS 101 - really.

Cool story bro, if you want to deny every survey done ever, go right ahead.

ROFL!

What survey has you install a program BEFORE you are counted?

/snip

So your logic is 'which survey has you DO STUFF' before you are counted?'

I dunno, EVERY SINGLE ONE? 

Did you ever fill out a survey before? You normally talk to someone or fill out something or even click something. You actually "DO STUFF" to be counted. OMG!

 

Xfire doesn't have selection bias cause there are no bias on a particular game.

It is biased on the type of player and so on the type of games they play.

Additionally "game x" xfire population is a subset of "game x" population.

You are confusing what XFire determins.

XFire determin how popular games are amongst XFire users.

And it isn't a poll.

It is data.

Originally posted by Torgrim

Originally posted by nerbon

Originally posted by botrytis

Originally posted by nerbon

Originally posted by Marcus-

Originally posted by nerbon
you can see the statistic on xfire... or do you think only xfire players got bored smashing 3 buttons

hmm

 

i think they grew bored because they were doing wrong.  I enjoy the combat, and use a wee bit more than 3 buttons 

 

log in gw2..count buttons... see the timer on buttons and push them

Or log into Rift or WoW - get confused with all the skill bars and what they do - try to macro things to make it to 10 buttons. OH WAIT GW2 already has only 10 - WOW so much easier to play.

 

never played rift but i enjoyed wow much more then gw2...i got my char to lvl 80 in gw2 ..pvp was boring ...wvw was like the cheap version of warhammer online

 

Now I know you haven't played GW2, you are just here to troll and bash GW2.

Originally posted by Nadia

Originally posted by jpnz

Xfire doesn't have selection bias cause there are no bias on a particular game.

some games run promotions encouraging players to signup

http://www.xfire.com/cms/rop2wofficialrules/

During GameSamba promtion - any user who enters the code "xifre" in game will receive:
1 - 30 day mount
1 - Level 30 scroll (instantly levels to 30 which includes 150,000 Gold)
1 - 100% Booster Scroll

 

thats a bias

 

Not exactly in the typical context of polling. Bias is typically applied in a restrictive way, exclusion being the primary goal (polling is quite a dirty business actually). Many polls are designed in a way that acheives a desired result. Especially where marketing/sales are involved.

As for X-fire and how it works (accumulated hours of play) a promotion like the above isn't going to do a game much good, unless that game is actually fun and popular.

Originally posted by nerbon

Originally posted by Torgrim

Originally posted by nerbon

Originally posted by botrytis

Originally posted by nerbon

Originally posted by Marcus-

Originally posted by nerbon
you can see the statistic on xfire... or do you think only xfire players got bored smashing 3 buttons

hmm

 

i think they grew bored because they were doing wrong.  I enjoy the combat, and use a wee bit more than 3 buttons 

 

log in gw2..count buttons... see the timer on buttons and push them

Or log into Rift or WoW - get confused with all the skill bars and what they do - try to macro things to make it to 10 buttons. OH WAIT GW2 already has only 10 - WOW so much easier to play.

 

never played rift but i enjoyed wow much more then gw2...i got my char to lvl 80 in gw2 ..pvp was boring ...wvw was like the cheap version of warhammer online

 

Now I know you haven't played GW2, you are just here to troll and bash GW2.

 

i see you have no idea what warhammer online was looks like you play only free to play games

I was in Warhammer beta and played my first free month after launch and you saying Warhammer PVP is far superior to GW2 is laughable.

Hell even on the offical forums the PVP,RvR got some serious flame for being lacking in many aspects.

Originally posted by Distopia

Originally posted by Nadia

Originally posted by jpnz

Xfire doesn't have selection bias cause there are no bias on a particular game.

some games run promotions encouraging players to signup

http://www.xfire.com/cms/rop2wofficialrules/

During GameSamba promtion - any user who enters the code "xifre" in game will receive:
1 - 30 day mount
1 - Level 30 scroll (instantly levels to 30 which includes 150,000 Gold)
1 - 100% Booster Scroll

 

thats a bias

 

Not exactly in the typical context of polling. Bias is typically applied in a restrictive way, exclusion being the primary goal (polling is quite a dirty business actually). Many polls are designed in a way that acheives a desired result. Especially where marketing/sales are involved.

As for X-fire and how it works (accumulated hours of play) a promotion like the above isn't going to do a game much good, unless that game is actually fun and popular.

It might make the % of users in every game shift.

For example, imagine the normal is that 0.3% of the population of a given game uses XFire.

Now, Game A does a promotion to let players know XFire exists. Lets say some of them keep using for whatever reason (like not knowing how to uninstall it or not even noticing it).

Now Game A has 10% of its population using XFire.

Game B is twice as popular has Game A, but only has the 0.3% using it.

So Game B with 100 000K players has 300 XFire players.

Game A with 50 000K players has 5000 XFire players.

When numbers are so low that WoW has 5K XFire players, it isn't that hard.

Originally posted by Torgrim

Originally posted by nerbon

Originally posted by Torgrim

Originally posted by nerbon

Originally posted by botrytis

Originally posted by nerbon

Originally posted by Marcus-

Originally posted by nerbon
you can see the statistic on xfire... or do you think only xfire players got bored smashing 3 buttons

hmm

 

i think they grew bored because they were doing wrong.  I enjoy the combat, and use a wee bit more than 3 buttons 

 

log in gw2..count buttons... see the timer on buttons and push them

Or log into Rift or WoW - get confused with all the skill bars and what they do - try to macro things to make it to 10 buttons. OH WAIT GW2 already has only 10 - WOW so much easier to play.

 

never played rift but i enjoyed wow much more then gw2...i got my char to lvl 80 in gw2 ..pvp was boring ...wvw was like the cheap version of warhammer online

 

Now I know you haven't played GW2, you are just here to troll and bash GW2.

 

i see you have no idea what warhammer online was looks like you play only free to play games

 

I was in Warhammer beta and played my first free month after launch and you saying Warhammer PVP is far superior to GW2 is laughable.

Hell even on the offical forums the PVP,RvR got some serious flame for being lacking in many aspects.

so...explain me then...in what gw2 WvW is better then WH RvR?

---

Originally posted by Volkon

Still playing it, still loving it. Still hit queues in WvW, still overflows in L.A. Still find that events draw a crowd in PvE pretty much anywhere. Still a great game.

---

Originally posted by jpnz

Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter

Originally posted by jpnz

 

Xfire shows a decline / incline of a portion of the playerbase across games.

Statistically speaking, it is large / good enough to be a 'random sample'.

XFire can be many things.

One thing XFire isn't is a random sample.

And the facts backing that it isn't a random sample is...???

Last I checked, Xfire is fairly large across multiple games (esp GW2) to be considered a 'sample'.

It has no 'bias selection' for any one game (be it LoL or GW2 or D3 or WoW or w/e) which satisfies the 'an equal chance of being selected from the entire population'.

Whether the analysis done on the random sample is correct or not is another issue, from a pure stats point of view, it matches all the criteria of a 'random sample'.

 

'But you have to install it!' is a hilarious argument. By this logic, 'you have to answer the phone / fill out a paper / talk to someone' can be used against every survey done.

I mean c'mon.. this is Stat 101. -.-

I checked a TIME/CNN poll from right before the election last year, they only polled 1,000 people and were only 4% off from the actual popular vote tally 3 days later.  1,000 polled out of 129 million votes and they were that close.  1,000 is like .0001% of 129 million.

xfire's sample group is much, much larger relative to 3 million GW2 boxes sold than an election poll.

Originally posted by nerbon

Originally posted by Marcus-

Originally posted by nerbon
you can see the statistic on xfire... or do you think only xfire players got bored smashing 3 buttons

hmm

 

i think they grew bored because they were doing wrong.  I enjoy the combat, and use a wee bit more than 3 buttons 

 

log in gw2..count buttons... see the timer on buttons and push them

If that's what you think, you've never played the game and have put blinders on to the truth.

Facerolling the keyboard isn't going to get you very far in this game. Many skills are situational and you will not be activitating them as soon as they come off cool down unless you are an idiot. (2-3 of the 1-5 skills tend to be situational and almost all of the possible 6-10 key skills are clearly situational).

Situational use of skills, movement, positioning and the active dodge, along with proper timing of said activities is crucial in this game. Proper timing and skill choice seperates the skilled from the scrubs and often makes the difference between victory or defeat.

If you look at the number of players playing gw2 on xfire you'd notice the number players playing the game hasn't really changed. it's been steady at around 3000 for a while now compared to WoW's 5000. Game must be doing terrible right.

.

Originally posted by Chieftan

Originally posted by jpnz

Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter

Originally posted by jpnz

 

Xfire shows a decline / incline of a portion of the playerbase across games.

Statistically speaking, it is large / good enough to be a 'random sample'.

XFire can be many things.

One thing XFire isn't is a random sample.

And the facts backing that it isn't a random sample is...???

Last I checked, Xfire is fairly large across multiple games (esp GW2) to be considered a 'sample'.

It has no 'bias selection' for any one game (be it LoL or GW2 or D3 or WoW or w/e) which satisfies the 'an equal chance of being selected from the entire population'.

Whether the analysis done on the random sample is correct or not is another issue, from a pure stats point of view, it matches all the criteria of a 'random sample'.

 

'But you have to install it!' is a hilarious argument. By this logic, 'you have to answer the phone / fill out a paper / talk to someone' can be used against every survey done.

I mean c'mon.. this is Stat 101. -.-

I checked a TIME/CNN poll from right before the election last year, they only polled 1,000 people and were only 4% off from the actual popular vote tally 3 days later.  1,000 polled out of 129 million votes and they were that close.  1,000 is like .0001% of 129 million.

xfire's sample group is much, much larger relative to 3 million GW2 boxes sold than an election poll.

That is because that 1000 people were a representative sample, and representative isn't related to population sizes.

Imagine they only polled white people. or men, or women or 65+ or under 21.

They polled 5xx women, 4xx men, XX over 65, etc.

XFire is like polling 1 group.

Originally posted by Chieftan

Originally posted by jpnz

Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter

Originally posted by jpnz

 

Xfire shows a decline / incline of a portion of the playerbase across games.

Statistically speaking, it is large / good enough to be a 'random sample'.

XFire can be many things.

One thing XFire isn't is a random sample.

And the facts backing that it isn't a random sample is...???

Last I checked, Xfire is fairly large across multiple games (esp GW2) to be considered a 'sample'.

It has no 'bias selection' for any one game (be it LoL or GW2 or D3 or WoW or w/e) which satisfies the 'an equal chance of being selected from the entire population'.

Whether the analysis done on the random sample is correct or not is another issue, from a pure stats point of view, it matches all the criteria of a 'random sample'.

 

'But you have to install it!' is a hilarious argument. By this logic, 'you have to answer the phone / fill out a paper / talk to someone' can be used against every survey done.

I mean c'mon.. this is Stat 101. -.-

I checked a TIME/CNN poll from right before the election last year, they only polled 1,000 people and were only 4% off from the actual popular vote tally 3 days later.  1,000 polled out of 129 million votes and they were that close.  1,000 is like .0001% of 129 million.

xfire's sample group is much, much larger relative to 3 million GW2 boxes sold than an election poll.

No. XFire is much more akin to the Republican internal polling that predicted a Romney landslide right up until election night. Even that is being generous, because though the Republican polls screwed up in selecting the representative mix, at least they tried to achieve a representative sample. XFire isn't a representative sample and it isn't even a random sample. It shows trends of XFire users and that's all it does. To try to equate XFire users as being representative of a broader playerbase is flawed.

It might correlate very roughly to a broader trend, but the degree of correlation is impossible to determine.

I personally have never used XFire and I have never even had a friend or guildmate who has admitted to using XFire when ever the subject has come up.

Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter

Originally posted by Chieftan

Originally posted by jpnz

Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter

Originally posted by jpnz

 

Xfire shows a decline / incline of a portion of the playerbase across games.

Statistically speaking, it is large / good enough to be a 'random sample'.

XFire can be many things.

One thing XFire isn't is a random sample.

And the facts backing that it isn't a random sample is...???

Last I checked, Xfire is fairly large across multiple games (esp GW2) to be considered a 'sample'.

It has no 'bias selection' for any one game (be it LoL or GW2 or D3 or WoW or w/e) which satisfies the 'an equal chance of being selected from the entire population'.

Whether the analysis done on the random sample is correct or not is another issue, from a pure stats point of view, it matches all the criteria of a 'random sample'.

 

'But you have to install it!' is a hilarious argument. By this logic, 'you have to answer the phone / fill out a paper / talk to someone' can be used against every survey done.

I mean c'mon.. this is Stat 101. -.-

I checked a TIME/CNN poll from right before the election last year, they only polled 1,000 people and were only 4% off from the actual popular vote tally 3 days later.  1,000 polled out of 129 million votes and they were that close.  1,000 is like .0001% of 129 million.

xfire's sample group is much, much larger relative to 3 million GW2 boxes sold than an election poll.

That is because that 1000 people were a representative sample, and representative isn't related to population sizes.

Imagine they only polled white people. or men, or women or 65+ or under 21.

They polled 5xx women, 4xx men, XX over 65, etc.

XFire is like polling 1 group.

 

Gamers

Originally posted by Yakkin
"XFire is generally wrong unless it's my game, then it is the epitome of accuracy and everyone who says otherwise is an idiot" - What is really the case.

 Yeah it's flawed unless these people using it believe gw2 has a population equal to 60% of WoWs. Which I'm guessing is the opposite of what they're trying to get across which is that's falling terribly. I still lol that they're using hours played, gw2 has no monethly fee meaning people aren' obligated to play it all the time in comparison to p2p.

Originally posted by bcbully

Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter

Originally posted by Chieftan

Originally posted by jpnz

Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter

Originally posted by jpnz

 

Xfire shows a decline / incline of a portion of the playerbase across games.

Statistically speaking, it is large / good enough to be a 'random sample'.

XFire can be many things.

One thing XFire isn't is a random sample.

And the facts backing that it isn't a random sample is...???

Last I checked, Xfire is fairly large across multiple games (esp GW2) to be considered a 'sample'.

It has no 'bias selection' for any one game (be it LoL or GW2 or D3 or WoW or w/e) which satisfies the 'an equal chance of being selected from the entire population'.

Whether the analysis done on the random sample is correct or not is another issue, from a pure stats point of view, it matches all the criteria of a 'random sample'.

 

'But you have to install it!' is a hilarious argument. By this logic, 'you have to answer the phone / fill out a paper / talk to someone' can be used against every survey done.

I mean c'mon.. this is Stat 101. -.-

I checked a TIME/CNN poll from right before the election last year, they only polled 1,000 people and were only 4% off from the actual popular vote tally 3 days later.  1,000 polled out of 129 million votes and they were that close.  1,000 is like .0001% of 129 million.

xfire's sample group is much, much larger relative to 3 million GW2 boxes sold than an election poll.

That is because that 1000 people were a representative sample, and representative isn't related to population sizes.

Imagine they only polled white people. or men, or women or 65+ or under 21.

They polled 5xx women, 4xx men, XX over 65, etc.

XFire is like polling 1 group.

 

Gamers

Gamers that use XFire.

You can be a gamer without using XFire.

Originally posted by Warband

Originally posted by Yakkin
"XFire is generally wrong unless it's my game, then it is the epitome of accuracy and everyone who says otherwise is an idiot" - What is really the case.

 Yeah it's flawed unless these people using it believe gw2 has a population equal to 60% of WoWs. Which I'm guessing is the opposite of what they're trying to get across which is that's falling terribly. I still lol that they're using hours played, gw2 has no monethly fee meaning people aren' obligated to play it all the time in comparison to p2p.

I was kind of applying this as a blanket statement towards ALL MMOs.