We're seeing quite a lot of games going the direction of F2P but will we ever see a game go from F2P to P2P?

I think the knee-jerk reaction would be "no", but if a developer makes some dramatic improvements to their offering and regains a loyal player-base would it be possible or even beneficial to attempt to switch back to a P2P model?

We see reports that games going F2P actually see revenue boosts but my guess is that most developers would prefer the stability and predictable revenue of the P2P model.

Originally posted by fat_taddler

We're seeing quite a lot of games going the direction of F2P but will we ever see a game go from F2P to P2P?

I think the knee-jerk reaction would be "no", but if a developer makes some dramatic improvements to their offering and regains a loyal player-base would it be possible or even beneficial to attempt to switch back to a P2P model?

We see reports that games going F2P actually see revenue boosts but my guess is that most developers would prefer the stability and predictable revenue of the P2P model.

If most developers prefer the stability and predictable revenue, then why is the market trending towards F2P? The F2P share grows from something like 39% to 50% (in revenue of MMO market) in the last 2-3 years.

I think it is exactly the opposite, they prefer a higher average rate of return with more risk. Now that is taking risk.

There is no point switching back to P2P. F2P games depends on whales that spends much more than a sub. If you go back to P2P, you dramatically lower the amount a whale is going to pay. And i doubt you are going to get much of the free riders pay up. They will just move to another F2P game.

F2P might make a transition more towards freemium with VIP status and gold memberships. The old way of doing P2P is dead though. Going Buy 2 play might also make sense for these solo centric MMOs like GW2 and TSW. TERA should have went Buy 2 play and not free 2 play.

A better question is, "Can games, that aren't WoW, afford not to offer free play?"  I don't see subs lasting much longer for most every game except a very few dedicated niche games.  EVE will probably survive quite nicely because they offer the plex/isk deal, but outside of that and WoW probably not many.

Originally posted by Torvaldr

A better question is, "Can games, that aren't WoW, afford not to offer free play?"  I don't see subs lasting much longer for most every game except a very few dedicated niche games.  EVE will probably survive quite nicely because they offer the plex/isk deal, but outside of that and WoW probably not many.

That is a good point, I can see WoW staying P2P forever, probably EvE as well. Probably Rift as long as content is continued to be delievered at the pace it has since release, maybe ESO when it comes out. But it does look grim for the P2P market.

The amount of rage and crying from people who would have to actually pay for a product they use for hundreds of hours created by hundreds of people over years would be so massive that the game companies probably wouldn't bother.

It's sad to me that people are unwilling to pay a dime for something they enjoy and use frequently that took years to create and peoples jobs and families depend on.

Oh well, cheap is a powerful mindset.

I don't think a full switch is likely.  Dev / publishers love their item shops, and I can't see them giving that up.

Originally posted by kadepsyson

The amount of rage and crying from people who would have to actually pay for a product they use for hundreds of hours created by hundreds of people over years would be so massive that the game companies probably wouldn't bother.

It's sad to me that people are unwilling to pay a dime for something they enjoy and use frequently that took years to create and peoples jobs and families depend on.

Oh well, cheap is a powerful mindset.

The irony.

It's sad to me, no wait I meant hilarious, that people cling to their old memes and mantras.

Somehow in all this free, people end up paying for games, the way they like, publishers and developers get paid along with their poor victimized families struggling to survive on an 80k income, people are happy and the industry is generating billions of dollars in revenue a year.  Where are the starving children we need to think of again?

Oh well, preconceived agenda is a powerful mindset.

Emphatically No.  Common (business) sense says you will stand to make MORE money a la carte vs flat rate because you can never predict how much money a particular gamer will spend.  Giving away everything for a flat 15/mo is leaving money on the table.

Works better for me in the long run as I dont like paying for aspects of games I will never play.  If there a feature I really like and its not part of the F2P I'll happily buy it as there is value.

F2P success is going to be on a case-by-case basis dependent on how the developer implmented the model.  TSW F2P is better than SWTOR F2P for example.  Its a delicate balance they will learn through experience over time.

Originally posted by Torvaldr

Originally posted by kadepsyson

The amount of rage and crying from people who would have to actually pay for a product they use for hundreds of hours created by hundreds of people over years would be so massive that the game companies probably wouldn't bother.

It's sad to me that people are unwilling to pay a dime for something they enjoy and use frequently that took years to create and peoples jobs and families depend on.

Oh well, cheap is a powerful mindset.

The irony.

It's sad to me, no wait I meant hilarious, that people cling to their old memes and mantras.

Somehow in all this free, people end up paying for games, the way they like, publishers and developers get paid along with their poor victimized families struggling to survive on an 80k income, people are happy and the industry is generating billions of dollars in revenue a year.  Where are the starving children we need to think of again?

Oh well, preconceived agenda is a powerful mindset.

Ah tell me more about how Free to Play City of Heroes was raining cash on developers :)

Sorry, I just feel that if a person finds something worth playing for hundreds of hours, perhaps they should pay money for it?  I know its a wild notion that flies in the face of the "I'm never paying any sub again" mindset all over this forum, but hey, I guess getting paid for ones work is outdated now.

So yeah, tell me how paying for a product is a bad thing.  Please I'd love to hear it :)

Originally posted by kadepsyson

Originally posted by Torvaldr

Originally posted by kadepsyson

The amount of rage and crying from people who would have to actually pay for a product they use for hundreds of hours created by hundreds of people over years would be so massive that the game companies probably wouldn't bother.

It's sad to me that people are unwilling to pay a dime for something they enjoy and use frequently that took years to create and peoples jobs and families depend on.

Oh well, cheap is a powerful mindset.

The irony.

It's sad to me, no wait I meant hilarious, that people cling to their old memes and mantras.

Somehow in all this free, people end up paying for games, the way they like, publishers and developers get paid along with their poor victimized families struggling to survive on an 80k income, people are happy and the industry is generating billions of dollars in revenue a year.  Where are the starving children we need to think of again?

Oh well, preconceived agenda is a powerful mindset.

Ah tell me more about how Free to Play City of Heroes was raining cash on developers :)

Sorry, I just feel that if a person finds something worth playing for hundreds of hours, perhaps they should pay money for it?  I know its a wild notion that flies in the face of the "I'm never paying any sub again" mindset all over this forum, but hey, I guess getting paid for ones work is outdated now.

 

So yeah, tell me how paying for a product is a bad thing.  Please I'd love to hear it :)

I can probably explain how F2P CoH was raining money down on the devs as soon as you can explain how sub-based CoH was raining money down on the devs.

Please do explain how not requiring a recurring monthly fee as limited rental access to the game somehow means that people don't pay for a game?  I pay for all my games if I like them and keep playing them.   Try using something other than broad generalizations to support your argument.

So again, with a lot of sub free titles in the industry please explain where all these billions are coming from?  EVE and WoW?

Originally posted by Aeonblades
 All it would do is alienate a sizable portion of a F2P games player base.

If alienation was the most important issue, games wouldn't switch either way.  The question is which business model will bring in the most revenue for the game at hand.

Originally posted by Torvaldr

Originally posted by kadepsyson

Originally posted by Torvaldr

Originally posted by kadepsyson

The amount of rage and crying from people who would have to actually pay for a product they use for hundreds of hours created by hundreds of people over years would be so massive that the game companies probably wouldn't bother.

It's sad to me that people are unwilling to pay a dime for something they enjoy and use frequently that took years to create and peoples jobs and families depend on.

Oh well, cheap is a powerful mindset.

The irony.

It's sad to me, no wait I meant hilarious, that people cling to their old memes and mantras.

Somehow in all this free, people end up paying for games, the way they like, publishers and developers get paid along with their poor victimized families struggling to survive on an 80k income, people are happy and the industry is generating billions of dollars in revenue a year.  Where are the starving children we need to think of again?

Oh well, preconceived agenda is a powerful mindset.

Ah tell me more about how Free to Play City of Heroes was raining cash on developers :)

Sorry, I just feel that if a person finds something worth playing for hundreds of hours, perhaps they should pay money for it?  I know its a wild notion that flies in the face of the "I'm never paying any sub again" mindset all over this forum, but hey, I guess getting paid for ones work is outdated now.

 

So yeah, tell me how paying for a product is a bad thing.  Please I'd love to hear it :)

I can probably explain how F2P CoH was raining money down on the devs as soon as you can explain how sub-based CoH was raining money down on the devs.

Please do explain how not requiring a recurring monthly fee as limited rental access to the game somehow means that people don't pay for a game?  I pay for all my games if I like them and keep playing them.   Try using something other than broad generalizations to support your argument.

So again, with a lot of sub free titles in the industry please explain where all these billions are coming from?  EVE and WoW?

The truth is, even if you support the free to play titles you play, you are one person.  Coming across the "never going to pay a sub again" lines in this forum is extremely common.  So while you might pay money, many many others do not and see no reason to ever pay anything.  A subscription would mean that every player sticking around supports the company. 

In this case I'm not really debating the two pay systems, but rather saying I find cheapskates offensive.  "Gimme!"

It is more the stingy attitude of never-pay free players that I draw issue with.  They have every intention to play as much as possible while paying nothing.

Originally posted by kadepsyson

It is more the stingy attitude of never-pay free players that I draw issue with.  They have every intention to play as much as possible while paying nothing.

Even Vork from "The Guild" paid a subscription even when he was stealing electricity and WifFi from his neighbor with Alzheimer's. :D

Funny that you should ask, fat_taddler. I was on Massively a couple of days ago and read that Allods Russia opened up a subscription-based server. 

They really should have done this a long time ago, but it will still be interesting to see how it pans out.