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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Can F2P Games Ever Go Back to P2P?

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34 posts found
  User Deleted
 
OP  1/18/13 10:11:50 AM#1

We're seeing quite a lot of games going the direction of F2P but will we ever see a game go from F2P to P2P?


I think the knee-jerk reaction would be "no", but if a developer makes some dramatic improvements to their offering and regains a loyal player-base would it be possible or even beneficial to attempt to switch back to a P2P model?


We see reports that games going F2P actually see revenue boosts but my guess is that most developers would prefer the stability and predictable revenue of the P2P model.

  nariusseldon

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 20226

1/18/13 1:44:15 PM#2
Originally posted by fat_taddler

We're seeing quite a lot of games going the direction of F2P but will we ever see a game go from F2P to P2P?


I think the knee-jerk reaction would be "no", but if a developer makes some dramatic improvements to their offering and regains a loyal player-base would it be possible or even beneficial to attempt to switch back to a P2P model?


We see reports that games going F2P actually see revenue boosts but my guess is that most developers would prefer the stability and predictable revenue of the P2P model.

If most developers prefer the stability and predictable revenue, then why is the market trending towards F2P? The F2P share grows from something like 39% to 50% (in revenue of MMO market) in the last 2-3 years.

I think it is exactly the opposite, they prefer a higher average rate of return with more risk. Now that is taking risk.

There is no point switching back to P2P. F2P games depends on whales that spends much more than a sub. If you go back to P2P, you dramatically lower the amount a whale is going to pay. And i doubt you are going to get much of the free riders pay up. They will just move to another F2P game.

  Aeonblades

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/12/12
Posts: 2123

1/18/13 1:46:46 PM#3
Honestly I don't see this happening. All it would do is alienate a sizable portion of a F2P games player base. Not to mention F2P is generally seen as a flopped P2P to a lot of older MMO players, you won't draw them back, and you'll lose the F2P base you once had.

Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
Have played: You name it
If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.

  Theocritus

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/15/08
Posts: 3618

1/18/13 2:00:59 PM#4
The only way I could see that working is if its a game where players have alot invested and would pay a sub to keep going.... Let's face it for most games the f2p model simply works out better for both the players and the company.
  Novusod

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/30/09
Posts: 875

1/18/13 2:10:34 PM#5

F2P might make a transition more towards freemium with VIP status and gold memberships. The old way of doing P2P is dead though. Going Buy 2 play might also make sense for these solo centric MMOs like GW2 and TSW. TERA should have went Buy 2 play and not free 2 play.

  Daxamar

Novice Member

Joined: 10/13/05
Posts: 559

1/18/13 2:17:30 PM#6
I doubt it will switch back. There making too much money of the F2P crowd right now.
  Cod_Eye

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/04/09
Posts: 1024

1/18/13 2:49:13 PM#7
They can but it will never happen.
  Torvaldr

Elite Member

Joined: 6/10/09
Posts: 6023

1/18/13 3:42:56 PM#8

A better question is, "Can games, that aren't WoW, afford not to offer free play?"  I don't see subs lasting much longer for most every game except a very few dedicated niche games.  EVE will probably survive quite nicely because they offer the plex/isk deal, but outside of that and WoW probably not many.

Curse you AquaScum!

  Aeonblades

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/12/12
Posts: 2123

1/18/13 3:45:48 PM#9
Originally posted by Torvaldr

A better question is, "Can games, that aren't WoW, afford not to offer free play?"  I don't see subs lasting much longer for most every game except a very few dedicated niche games.  EVE will probably survive quite nicely because they offer the plex/isk deal, but outside of that and WoW probably not many.

That is a good point, I can see WoW staying P2P forever, probably EvE as well. Probably Rift as long as content is continued to be delievered at the pace it has since release, maybe ESO when it comes out. But it does look grim for the P2P market.

Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
Have played: You name it
If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.

  kadepsyson

Novice Member

Joined: 5/15/06
Posts: 1966

The doctors say his chances are 50/50...but there's only a 10% chance of that.

1/18/13 3:46:24 PM#10

The amount of rage and crying from people who would have to actually pay for a product they use for hundreds of hours created by hundreds of people over years would be so massive that the game companies probably wouldn't bother.

 

It's sad to me that people are unwilling to pay a dime for something they enjoy and use frequently that took years to create and peoples jobs and families depend on.

 

Oh well, cheap is a powerful mindset.

El Psy Congroo

  ZombieKen

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/30/10
Posts: 4410

Zombie - Dead but still moving.

1/18/13 3:52:00 PM#11

I don't think a full switch is likely.  Dev / publishers love their item shops, and I can't see them giving that up.

 

 

MSOTSG with PPE : Massively Single-player Online Task-driven Storyline Game with Purchasable Performance Enhancements *grin*

  Torvaldr

Elite Member

Joined: 6/10/09
Posts: 6023

1/18/13 3:53:20 PM#12
Originally posted by kadepsyson

The amount of rage and crying from people who would have to actually pay for a product they use for hundreds of hours created by hundreds of people over years would be so massive that the game companies probably wouldn't bother.

It's sad to me that people are unwilling to pay a dime for something they enjoy and use frequently that took years to create and peoples jobs and families depend on.

Oh well, cheap is a powerful mindset.

The irony.

It's sad to me, no wait I meant hilarious, that people cling to their old memes and mantras.

Somehow in all this free, people end up paying for games, the way they like, publishers and developers get paid along with their poor victimized families struggling to survive on an 80k income, people are happy and the industry is generating billions of dollars in revenue a year.  Where are the starving children we need to think of again?

Oh well, preconceived agenda is a powerful mindset.

Curse you AquaScum!

  darkhalf357x

Elite Member

Joined: 1/25/12
Posts: 1124

I'm only playing the role chosen for me. Who you supposed to be?

1/18/13 3:58:00 PM#13

Emphatically No.  Common (business) sense says you will stand to make MORE money a la carte vs flat rate because you can never predict how much money a particular gamer will spend.  Giving away everything for a flat 15/mo is leaving money on the table.

Works better for me in the long run as I dont like paying for aspects of games I will never play.  If there a feature I really like and its not part of the F2P I'll happily buy it as there is value.

F2P success is going to be on a case-by-case basis dependent on how the developer implmented the model.  TSW F2P is better than SWTOR F2P for example.  Its a delicate balance they will learn through experience over time.

  kadepsyson

Novice Member

Joined: 5/15/06
Posts: 1966

The doctors say his chances are 50/50...but there's only a 10% chance of that.

1/18/13 3:59:21 PM#14
Originally posted by Torvaldr
Originally posted by kadepsyson

The amount of rage and crying from people who would have to actually pay for a product they use for hundreds of hours created by hundreds of people over years would be so massive that the game companies probably wouldn't bother.

It's sad to me that people are unwilling to pay a dime for something they enjoy and use frequently that took years to create and peoples jobs and families depend on.

Oh well, cheap is a powerful mindset.

The irony.

It's sad to me, no wait I meant hilarious, that people cling to their old memes and mantras.

Somehow in all this free, people end up paying for games, the way they like, publishers and developers get paid along with their poor victimized families struggling to survive on an 80k income, people are happy and the industry is generating billions of dollars in revenue a year.  Where are the starving children we need to think of again?

Oh well, preconceived agenda is a powerful mindset.

Ah tell me more about how Free to Play City of Heroes was raining cash on developers :)

Sorry, I just feel that if a person finds something worth playing for hundreds of hours, perhaps they should pay money for it?  I know its a wild notion that flies in the face of the "I'm never paying any sub again" mindset all over this forum, but hey, I guess getting paid for ones work is outdated now.

 

So yeah, tell me how paying for a product is a bad thing.  Please I'd love to hear it :)

El Psy Congroo

  Torvaldr

Elite Member

Joined: 6/10/09
Posts: 6023

1/18/13 4:04:16 PM#15
Originally posted by kadepsyson
Originally posted by Torvaldr
Originally posted by kadepsyson

The amount of rage and crying from people who would have to actually pay for a product they use for hundreds of hours created by hundreds of people over years would be so massive that the game companies probably wouldn't bother.

It's sad to me that people are unwilling to pay a dime for something they enjoy and use frequently that took years to create and peoples jobs and families depend on.

Oh well, cheap is a powerful mindset.

The irony.

It's sad to me, no wait I meant hilarious, that people cling to their old memes and mantras.

Somehow in all this free, people end up paying for games, the way they like, publishers and developers get paid along with their poor victimized families struggling to survive on an 80k income, people are happy and the industry is generating billions of dollars in revenue a year.  Where are the starving children we need to think of again?

Oh well, preconceived agenda is a powerful mindset.

Ah tell me more about how Free to Play City of Heroes was raining cash on developers :)

Sorry, I just feel that if a person finds something worth playing for hundreds of hours, perhaps they should pay money for it?  I know its a wild notion that flies in the face of the "I'm never paying any sub again" mindset all over this forum, but hey, I guess getting paid for ones work is outdated now.

 

So yeah, tell me how paying for a product is a bad thing.  Please I'd love to hear it :)

I can probably explain how F2P CoH was raining money down on the devs as soon as you can explain how sub-based CoH was raining money down on the devs.

Please do explain how not requiring a recurring monthly fee as limited rental access to the game somehow means that people don't pay for a game?  I pay for all my games if I like them and keep playing them.   Try using something other than broad generalizations to support your argument.

So again, with a lot of sub free titles in the industry please explain where all these billions are coming from?  EVE and WoW?

Curse you AquaScum!

  maplestone

Novice Member

Joined: 12/10/08
Posts: 3109

1/18/13 4:07:17 PM#16
Originally posted by Aeonblades
 All it would do is alienate a sizable portion of a F2P games player base.

If alienation was the most important issue, games wouldn't switch either way.  The question is which business model will bring in the most revenue for the game at hand.

 

  Scottgun

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/05/07
Posts: 344

1/18/13 4:08:00 PM#17
Subs going f2p is entropy, which is generally irreversable.

How not to sell me on a game: "And most people that make it past the tutorial seem to appreciate [x game's] uniqueness, even if they don't find it fun."

  kadepsyson

Novice Member

Joined: 5/15/06
Posts: 1966

The doctors say his chances are 50/50...but there's only a 10% chance of that.

1/18/13 4:11:06 PM#18
Originally posted by Torvaldr
Originally posted by kadepsyson
Originally posted by Torvaldr
Originally posted by kadepsyson

The amount of rage and crying from people who would have to actually pay for a product they use for hundreds of hours created by hundreds of people over years would be so massive that the game companies probably wouldn't bother.

It's sad to me that people are unwilling to pay a dime for something they enjoy and use frequently that took years to create and peoples jobs and families depend on.

Oh well, cheap is a powerful mindset.

The irony.

It's sad to me, no wait I meant hilarious, that people cling to their old memes and mantras.

Somehow in all this free, people end up paying for games, the way they like, publishers and developers get paid along with their poor victimized families struggling to survive on an 80k income, people are happy and the industry is generating billions of dollars in revenue a year.  Where are the starving children we need to think of again?

Oh well, preconceived agenda is a powerful mindset.

Ah tell me more about how Free to Play City of Heroes was raining cash on developers :)

Sorry, I just feel that if a person finds something worth playing for hundreds of hours, perhaps they should pay money for it?  I know its a wild notion that flies in the face of the "I'm never paying any sub again" mindset all over this forum, but hey, I guess getting paid for ones work is outdated now.

 

So yeah, tell me how paying for a product is a bad thing.  Please I'd love to hear it :)

I can probably explain how F2P CoH was raining money down on the devs as soon as you can explain how sub-based CoH was raining money down on the devs.

Please do explain how not requiring a recurring monthly fee as limited rental access to the game somehow means that people don't pay for a game?  I pay for all my games if I like them and keep playing them.   Try using something other than broad generalizations to support your argument.

So again, with a lot of sub free titles in the industry please explain where all these billions are coming from?  EVE and WoW?

The truth is, even if you support the free to play titles you play, you are one person.  Coming across the "never going to pay a sub again" lines in this forum is extremely common.  So while you might pay money, many many others do not and see no reason to ever pay anything.  A subscription would mean that every player sticking around supports the company. 

 

In this case I'm not really debating the two pay systems, but rather saying I find cheapskates offensive.  "Gimme!"

It is more the stingy attitude of never-pay free players that I draw issue with.  They have every intention to play as much as possible while paying nothing.

El Psy Congroo

  Scottgun

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/05/07
Posts: 344

1/18/13 4:17:58 PM#19
Originally posted by kadepsyson

It is more the stingy attitude of never-pay free players that I draw issue with.  They have every intention to play as much as possible while paying nothing.

Even Vork from "The Guild" paid a subscription even when he was stealing electricity and WifFi from his neighbor with Alzheimer's. :D

How not to sell me on a game: "And most people that make it past the tutorial seem to appreciate [x game's] uniqueness, even if they don't find it fun."

  Cecropia

Gumshoe

Joined: 3/06/09
Posts: 3302

Poacher killer.

1/18/13 4:19:43 PM#20

Funny that you should ask, fat_taddler. I was on Massively a couple of days ago and read that Allods Russia opened up a subscription-based server. 

They really should have done this a long time ago, but it will still be interesting to see how it pans out.

"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb

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