Take WOW as an example. What are the pve gameplay? Solo-quest, 5-man instanced dungeons and raids. In between dungeons, players waited in a city.

So what if there is no virtual world? Just a city lobby. Will they even notice the difference?

You may say .. what about meeting other players when you solo quest? Well, that also don't need a persistent virtual world. You can use an instanced and match random players into it. You will never be seeing 10000 others outside of a city anyway. In fact, most questing players won't want 10000 others to share their quest mobs.

In DDO, most of the gameplay is in the dungeons. There isn't much of even the open world solo-questing like in WOW.

LOTRO is similar to WOW.

In STO, most mission/pve content is in instanced. I do see lots of other players (space ships) in sector space. However, i doubt i would even notice if the sector space is not persistent, or if some of the space ships are NPCs (in fact, some of them are).

In fact, didn't GW1 tried this idea and was very successful. 

Originally posted by Grixxitt
Narius, I'm starting to think you get paid by a MOBA collective to do your best in making sure that future MMORPGs are absolute shit

Made me giggle. Yea this is not a good idea, most players would notice.

Originally posted by Grixxitt
Narius, I'm starting to think you get paid by a MOBA collective to do your best in making sure that future MMORPGs are absolute shit

MOBA? I don't even play MOBA.

And i also don't make MMOs .. i just play them.

Originally posted by bunnyhopper
Yes they will. Next!

How? When? Certainly not when they are in a city waiting for a dungeon to pop, or in that dungeon doing a 5-man run.

Yeah, they would notice.  Just look at all the threads of people complaining about empty overland zones indicating that a game is dead.

It's a paradox.  They might not want to play with others, but they like having them around.

I think the point is being missed regarding "seing thousands of players".

Of course people aren't going to want to log in only to find 5000 players standing around him and his framerate dropping to 0.

The idea is that one can have access to any of the numerous thousands of players and have some sort of encounter or adventure because of it.

This happened to me all the time in Lineage 2. not very much in most other games... perhaps Aion it did.

Have you ever crested a hill to take a boss only to find your enemy with a larger army around that very same boss?

Have you ever been besieged by several mobs only to find a higher level, helpful stranger lend aid?

Have you ever been leveling in a group, only to be attacked by a rival of one of your party members?

or on your way through a dungeon only to see a group of people who desperately need help with the mobs? You help them then finish your business there and then someone suggests "hey let's go to that island in the north" and you then start a whole new experience there.

Or meet some new player who had no idea what the game is about so you take him/her under your wing, get him equipment, money and then give them a tour of the world.

All that an more can happen when one has a world to wander around in.

In GW1 (a great game) that didn't really happen to me. I would enter a hub and people would be grouping up for that hub. That's about it. DDO? never got that game as it seemed to be people grouping so they can blaze through a dungeon as fast as they could only to do the same again, or with another dungeon.

I'll take my virtual world.

Originally posted by XAPGames

Yeah, they would notice.  Just look at all the threads of people complaining about empty overland zones indicating that a game is dead.

 

It's a paradox.  They might not want to play with others, but they like having them around.

 

This. If the world seems empty, it doesn't seem like a world anymore to most.

Originally posted by Aeonblades

Originally posted by XAPGames

Yeah, they would notice.  Just look at all the threads of people complaining about empty overland zones indicating that a game is dead.

 

It's a paradox.  They might not want to play with others, but they like having them around.

 

This. If the world seems empty, it doesn't seem like a world anymore to most.

No disagreement from me.

If already stated that I see this all headed that way, OP. Just think when some guy in a suit realizes that there is no need to spend money on a world when everyone is in a lobby city waiting to accept a LFD invite, which teleports you there and back. Then when you cap, you do the same for PvP in these little rooms called arenas.

It will happen.

Originally posted by Aeonblades

Originally posted by XAPGames

Yeah, they would notice.  Just look at all the threads of people complaining about empty overland zones indicating that a game is dead.

 

It's a paradox.  They might not want to play with others, but they like having them around.

 

This. If the world seems empty, it doesn't seem like a world anymore to most.

You don't need a world for this. You just need a city like Orgrimmar.

In fact, the world *is* empty. They may as well take it away.

Originally posted by Sovrath

I think the point is being missed regarding "seing thousands of players".

Of course people aren't going to want to log in only to find 5000 players standing around him and his framerate dropping to 0.

The idea is that one can have access to any of the numerous thousands of players and have some sort of encounter or adventure because of it.

This happened to me all the time in Lineage 2. not very much in most other games... perhaps Aion it did.

Have you ever crested a hill to take a boss only to find your enemy with a larger army around that very same boss?

Have you ever been besieged by several mobs only to find a higher level, helpful stranger lend aid?

Have you ever been leveling in a group, only to be attacked by a rival of one of your party members?

or on your way through a dungeon only to see a group of people who desperately need help with the mobs? You help them then finish your business there and then someone suggests "hey let's go to that island in the north" and you then start a whole new experience there.

Or meet some new player who had no idea what the game is about so you take him/her under your wing, get him equipment, money and then give them a tour of the world.

All that an more can happen when one has a world to wander around in.

In GW1 (a great game) that didn't really happen to me. I would enter a hub and people would be grouping up for that hub. That's about it. DDO? never got that game as it seemed to be people grouping so they can blaze through a dungeon as fast as they could only to do the same again, or with another dungeon.

I'll take my virtual world.

These never happen in WOW, DDO, GW1, and many other instanced centric PvE MMOs.

The point of this thread is not what should be the MMO design, but in these specific MMOs, why do we need a world if the experience is the same?

The stuff you talk about .. .like meeting another group in a dungeon .. is just not the gameplay in these MMO i am discussing. So irrelevant.

Originally posted by NorseGod

If already stated that I see this all headed that way, OP. Just think when some guy in a suit realizes that there is no need to spend money on a world when everyone is in a lobby city waiting to accept a LFD invite, which teleports you there and back. Then when you cap, you do the same for PvP in these little rooms called arenas.

It will happen.

But yet .. many of these games are designed with a non-functionality irrelevant virtual world. TOR is the best example. With all the story instanced, the world matters very little.

In fact, it would be a MUCH better game if it is just an online MP RPG.

with all the stuff added in pandaria u don't have to wait in a city for a dungeon to pop, U can run a scenario while waiting for dungeon to pop. Do your farming or dailies which there are alot of, Waiting in a city for a dungeon to pop when u can be out and about in the world is a choice not a neccesity in wow. 

I for one never waited in cities for dungeons or raids to pop, Id go fish or explore or do some mat farming , Sure u don't have to go out in the world if u dont want to but to me thats  a waste. 

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by NorseGod

If already stated that I see this all headed that way, OP. Just think when some guy in a suit realizes that there is no need to spend money on a world when everyone is in a lobby city waiting to accept a LFD invite, which teleports you there and back. Then when you cap, you do the same for PvP in these little rooms called arenas.

It will happen.

But yet .. many of these games are designed with a non-functionality irrelevant virtual world. TOR is the best example. With all the story instanced, the world matters very little.

In fact, it would be a MUCH better game if it is just an online MP RPG.

I agree with what you said here, TOR would have been much better off with D2 style lobby for dungeons/raids/story quests. If not just because the station lags so badly.

Originally posted by kalinis

with all the stuff added in pandaria u don't have to wait in a city for a dungeon to pop, U can run a scenario while waiting for dungeon to pop. Do your farming or dailies which there are alot of, Waiting in a city for a dungeon to pop when u can be out and about in the world is a choice not a neccesity in wow. 

I for one never waited in cities for dungeons or raids to pop, Id go fish or explore or do some mat farming , Sure u don't have to go out in the world if u dont want to but to me thats  a waste. 

Sure. I see the changes in pandaria a way to make a bit more use of the world. However,

1) Scenarios are instanced right? So if you run a scenario, if you are not usign the persistent world.

2) farming and daillies are certainly use of the open world quest zone. But those are solo-activities. Does it matter if it happens in an instanced with the occasional random player pop in? Probably not a whole lot. In fact, if you farm (say mining), you would like to stay away from others (isn't mine node stealing frustrating?) .. .so do you think players will prefer an instanced zone where they have all the mine nodes to themselves?

3)  fishing is also solo. Does it make a difference if you jsut finish in a nice instanced? But disregarding of how YOU play, don't you agree a lot of players are waiting in a city? When i played wow, i saw lots of that.