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News & Features Discussion  » [Column] General: When Kickstarter Works...

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37 posts found
  SBFord

Associate Editor - News Manager

Joined: 6/28/10
Posts: 13273

 
OP  1/17/13 2:30:23 PM#1

Kickstarter is arguably one of the hottest topics coming out of 2012. There is, however, a curious thing that happens when a game funds: We are reminded of the past and commentary we may have made prior to a successful Kickstart. Check out today's Devil's Advocate and then leave your thoughts in the comments.

When a Kickstarter project fails, everyone seems to be okay with it, and nothing more is said about the occurrence other than, perhaps, “What a shame!” When a Kickstarter actually works though, the things you earnestly say in the past about a project can come back to haunt you. Being haunted by words I said last year is not going to help me sleep soundly, so I’ve taken today’s Devil’s Advocate and turned it into an exorcism ground.

Read more of Victor Barreiro Jr.'s The Devil's Advocate: When Kickstarter Works...

Associate Editor: MMORPG.com
Follow me on Twitter: @MMORPGMom

  destro521

Novice Member

Joined: 5/29/12
Posts: 48

1/18/13 10:09:25 AM#2
Nice Article on a substantial issue reguarding kickstarter projects :) They need to implement a stronger contingency against the creators of a kickstarter campaign to insure the investor is getting his money worth. but on the other hand the investor could always research the history of the company that starts the kickstarter campaign.
  WhiteLantern

Novice Member

Joined: 1/27/10
Posts: 2778

1/18/13 10:10:13 AM#3
Got to admit, the back-and-forth exchanges on any of the GM threads here makes me skeptical that anything will ever come of that project. But they do make for an entertaining read!

I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil

  adam_nox

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/31/06
Posts: 2062

1/18/13 10:34:54 AM#4
Kickstarter has yet to 'work'. Once a quality mmo is actually released, then it works.
  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 3778

1/18/13 11:01:47 AM#5

There is a trend in these forums of falling in love with KS projects simply because it's a cool new idea that gives the little guy a shot at developingn an MMO. You see a lot of the same defensive posts promoting the projects based on little more than blind faith like you see in game forums defending a failing but beloved MMO.

Do I need to point out that this suspension of disbelief is the best possible atmosphere for a scammer to operate within?

Seems to me all you have to do is throw some trendy popular MMO lingo around like "open world", "sandbox", "payer-built cities", etc. and people will flock to give you $500 so you can have a river named after your pet gerbil.

Then there are all the disguised ads for KS projects polluting the forums on a daily basis. They usually start something like this "Hey guys I have this idea for an MMO based on the bubonic plague... What do you think?" And then there will be a link to the KS page for the project. Then there will inevitably be some forum posters that will discuss the merits of the idea creating something tha t looks like a legitimate thread...job done: lock-proof advertising.

Getting a bit tired of all this KS garbage... This site should at least create a KS panhandling forum segregated from other general forums.

  Nevulus

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/23/06
Posts: 1216

1/18/13 11:04:46 AM#6
Originally posted by adam_nox
Kickstarter has yet to 'work'. Once a quality mmo is actually released, then it works.

Kickstarter has worked with many games by indie developers that are a blast to play. Why does it have to be a mmo to solidify Kickstarter's ability to move the market forward? That''s a very narrow-minded way of thinking.

  Dreamo84

Defender of Worlds

Joined: 5/20/04
Posts: 2910

I actually still like MMORPGs

1/18/13 11:13:17 AM#7
Only mmo I tried to back was Dark Solstice and it failed sadly :(

  strangiato2112

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 9/21/12
Posts: 1566

1/18/13 11:20:58 AM#8
Originally posted by Nevulus
Originally posted by adam_nox
Kickstarter has yet to 'work'. Once a quality mmo is actually released, then it works.

Kickstarter has worked with many games by indie developers that are a blast to play. Why does it have to be a mmo to solidify Kickstarter's ability to move the market forward? That''s a very narrow-minded way of thinking.

MMOs are significantly different than regular 'games'.  There has yet to be an MMO kickstarter succes.  When a kickstarter releases and recieves noticeable post-launch development (regardless of size of player base) over a span of several years then we will have our success and proof that kickstarter is an option for this genre.

  RefMinor

Novice Member

Joined: 7/16/11
Posts: 3542

Hipster

1/18/13 11:23:04 AM#9
I backed Elite:Dangerous for £20, it gives me a free copy of the game if completed. The studio behind it has been in game production for 30 years and has many completed games to its name, that's a big difference to a random bunch of people asking for money based on a cool idea, all kickstarters are not the same.
  MumboJumbo

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/18/10
Posts: 3141

Veni, Vidi, Converti

1/18/13 12:01:40 PM#10

There's already been a few casualties, frauds exposed (by reddit) and bleeding companies going for kickstarter gold...

Just got to do some research on the people. Balance the risk/reward of an interesting campaign and imo be motivated to pledge for vision more than for personal gain. It's one reason I'm happier chipping in small amounts to ks games than traditional publishers pushing out games. :)

Originally posted by Victor Barreiro Jr.

People are not as enthused about this MMO as I’d expected

At face value looking at the Tech Demo with no context it looks like any other 100's of fantasy themepark mmorpgs. Secondly coming out on the xmas period did not help. Third: No build-up release. Fourth: Their middleware contract talks were extended by unforeseen reasons but Five: Most of all: A mmorpg asking for a lot of cash is a big clash: The more you ask for and the more ambitious your vision, the more you ideally need to be able to show. Fortunately for GW they have Paizo community already built up which saved the day. And I think the faster development will prove vital: The dilemma of an indie mmorpg.

  Ozmodan

Elite Member

Joined: 2/27/07
Posts: 6633

1/18/13 12:08:45 PM#11

Comparing Greedmonger and Pathfinder is like comparing night and day.  Although I was not thrilled with the pvp everywhere feature in Pathfinder, it has far better design points than Greedmonger.   Greedmonger was just a gambling game, it really had no worthy design points at all.

Of all these indy games Pathfinder probably has a much better chance than many of them.  I will be shocked if Greedmonger ever sees the light of day.

You cannot support them all, but some show potential.

  hedbonker

Novice Member

Joined: 4/06/11
Posts: 3

1/18/13 12:27:09 PM#12

It does work...

 

http://www.2playerproductions.com/projects/minecraft

 

That was funded by Kickstarter.

  newchemicals

Novice Member

Joined: 7/08/06
Posts: 43

1/18/13 1:07:43 PM#13

Nice article Victor.

Given the MMO market as things currently stand I have doubts about PO. Too many other games have offered pie in the sky and didn't deliver.

The game they are modeling after Eve Online failed in China (although its being rebooted there) and as the devs in that game have learned, a small change in the game could have a massive effect. Eve itself *may* have been a happy accident of right game, right time with the right balance.

As usual, I don't even take a look at a game until its in open beta. Then see what the number crunching players say. I hope Pathfinder Online is successful, but only time and wallets will tell.

  maplestone

Novice Member

Joined: 12/10/08
Posts: 3109

1/18/13 1:34:19 PM#14
Multiple modest kickstarter rounds, proving that you can meet deadlines and deliver what was promised at each checkpoint goes a long way towards building trust.
  Istavaan

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/25/12
Posts: 1398

1/18/13 1:39:26 PM#15
No kickstarter project has launched yet so you can't say it works. i can't believe gamers are so desperate that they would pay for the developement of a game. These kickstart games look great on paper but executing the idea is where they will come undone. I foresee a lot of drama this year with these scams*cough* i mean kickstarter projects
  JamesP

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/04/06
Posts: 312

1/18/13 3:14:13 PM#16
Nice article even though it was pretty much one sided. We have been perfectly open and upfront concerning many of these false claims people keep making against us. But oh well we can't win every battle! Talk to you guys when we launch our Alpha.

Lead Programmer
Greed Monger
http://www.GreedMonger.com

  maplestone

Novice Member

Joined: 12/10/08
Posts: 3109

1/18/13 3:16:20 PM#17
Originally posted by Istavaan
i can't believe gamers are so desperate that they would pay for the developement of a game.

If forums here are across the Internet are to be believed, the world is cram full of people who buy into hype only to be let down by the game that's actually delivered, even without kickstarter.

  Istavaan

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/25/12
Posts: 1398

1/18/13 3:17:53 PM#18
Originally posted by JamesP
Nice article even though it was pretty much one sided. We have been perfectly open and upfront concerning many of these false claims people keep making against us. But oh well we can't win every battle! Talk to you guys when we launch our Alpha.

well you know what to do, release the game and prove people wrong, until then kickstarter remains highly suspicious to those of us who have been around for awhile.

  Istavaan

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/25/12
Posts: 1398

1/18/13 3:20:31 PM#19
Originally posted by maplestone
Originally posted by Istavaan
i can't believe gamers are so desperate that they would pay for the developement of a game.

If forums here are across the Internet are to be believed, the world is cram full of people who buy into hype only to be let down by the game that's actually delivered, even without kickstarter.

At least that hype has an end product regardless if it meets your mmorpg wet dreams or not, kickerstarter projects just look doomed from the beginning. They are ticking the boxes that everyone wants to see tick but executing it into a working product is a whole different animal.

  Ryahl

Novice Member

Joined: 12/10/12
Posts: 44

Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam.

1/18/13 4:19:23 PM#20

Nice article Victor, I enjoyed the read.

Kickstarter is one of the more fascinating things I have seen in business in the past decade.  There's no reason getting into its positives because, well, they stand out on their own merit quite well.

But Kickstarter does put the interested party into an odd situation.  It's micro venture capital without an equity component.  The Kickstarter funder needs to be able to do the same due diligence VC normally would do.  Even if the relevant information is available, I don't think the typical Kickstarter follower is familiar with this level of due diligence.

It's not just the product pitch and marketing plan of the business plan that need evaluation.  There's an adage in my non-hobby, real-world experiences, "cash is king."  That's not a call for returns to a cash-only business model (far from it), but a recognition that cash flow management kills more projects than bad ideas do.

The prospective Kickstarter funder really needs a feel for the operations, project management, cash flow management and business side of the business... but they make their decisions largely on the marketing/product side.

Beyond the fraud issues, it's a model that's prone to a higher degree of strikeouts than straight VC... and it's not like VC is a high success rate environment.

Ryahl - writer of eye-bleeders
FFXIV Fansite | TSWGuides
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