Trending Games | Landmark | Warhammer 40K: Eternal Crusade | Star Wars: The Old Republic | Camelot Unchained

  Network:  FPSguru RTSguru
Login:  Password:   Remember?  
Show Quick Gamelist Jump to Random Game
Members:2,919,421 Users Online:0
Games:760  Posts:6,309,787
Recent forum postsRSS
Active threads
Cloud view
List all forums
General Forums
Developers Corner General Discussion
Popular Game Forums
Click a status to find game forum
Game Forums
Click a letter to find game forum
A-C
2029 Online 2112: Revolution 2Moons 4Story 8BitMMO 9 Dragons A Mystical Land A Tale in the Desert III A3 ACE Online ARGO Online Aberoth Absolute Force Online Absolute Terror Achaea Adellion Aerrevan Aetolia, the Midnight Age Age of Armor Age of Conan Age of Empires Online Age of Mourning Age of Wulin Age of Wushu Aida Arenas Aika Aion Albion Online Alganon All Points Bulletin (APB) Allods Online Altis Gates Amazing World Anarchy Online Ancients of Fasaria Andromeda 5 Angels Online Angry Birds Epic Anime Ninja Anime Pirates Anime Trumps Anmynor Anno Online Applo Arcane Hearts Arcane Legends ArchLord ArcheAge Archeblade Archlord X Ascend: Hand of Kul Asda 2 Asda Story Ashen Empires Asheron's Call Asheron's Call 2 Astera Online Astonia III Astro Empires Astro Lords: Oort CLoud Asura Force Atlantica Online Atriarch Aura Kingdom Aurora Blade Auto Assault Avatar Star Battle Dawn Battle Dawn Galaxies Battle for Graxia Battle of 3 Kingdoms Battle of the Immortals Battlecruiser Online Battlestar Galactica Online Battlestar Reloaded Beyond Protocol Black Aftermath Black Desert Black Gold Black Prophecy Black Prophecy Tactics: Nexus Conflict Blacklight Retribution Blade & Soul Blade Hunter Blade Wars Blazing Throne Bless Blitz 1941 Blood and Jade Bloodlines Champions Boot Hill Heroes Borderlands 2 Borderlands: The Pre-Sequel Bound by Flame Bounty Bay Online Brain Storm Bravada Bravely Default Bravely Second Brawl Busters. Brick-Force Bright Shadow Bullet Run Business Tycoon Online CTRacer Cabal Online Caesary Call of Camelot Call of Gods Call of Thrones Camelot Unchained Canaan Online Cardmon Hero Cartoon Universe CasinoRPG Cast & Conquer Castle Empire Castlot Celtic Heroes Champions Online Champions of Regnum Chaos Online Child of Light Chrono Tales Citadel of Sorcery CitiesXL Citizen Zero City of Decay City of Heroes City of Steam City of Transformers City of Villains Civilization Online Clan Lord Clash of Clans Cloud Nine Club Penguin Colony of War Command & Conquer: Tiberium Alliances Company of Heroes Online Conquer Online Conquer Online 3 Continent of the Ninth (C9) Core Blaze Core Exiles Corum Online Craft of Gods Crimecraft Crimelife 2 Cronous Crota II Crusaders of Solaris Cultures Online Cyber Monster 2 Cyberpunk 2077 Céiron Wars
D-F
D&D Online DC Universe DK Online DOTA DOTA 2 DUST 514 DV8: Exile Dalethaan Dance Groove Online Dark Age of Camelot Dark Ages Dark Legends Dark Orbit Dark Relic: Prelude Dark Solstice Dark Souls 2 Dark and Light DarkEden Online DarkSpace Darkblood Online Darkest Dungeon Darkfall Darkfall: Unholy Wars Darkwind: War on Wheels Das Tal Dawn of Fantasy Dawntide DayZ Dead Earth Dead Frontier Dead Island Dead Island 2 Dead Island: Riptide Deco Online Deep Down Deepworld Defiance Deicide Online Dekaron Demons at the Horizon Desert Operations Destiny Diablo 3 Diamonin Digimon Battle Dino Storm Disciple Divergence Divina Divine Souls Divinity: Original Sin Dofus Dominus Online Dragon Age: Inquisition Dragon Ball Online Dragon Born Online Dragon Crusade Dragon Empires Dragon Eternity Dragon Fin Soup Dragon Nest Dragon Oath Dragon Pals Dragon Raja Dragon's Call Dragon's Call II Dragon's Prophet DragonSky DragonSoul Dragona Dragonica Dragons and Titans Drakengard 3 Dream of Mirror Online Dreamland Online Dreamlords: The Reawakening Drift City Duels Dungeon Blitz Dungeon Fighter Online Dungeon Overlord Dungeon Party Dungeon Rampage Dungeon Runners Dungeon of the Endless Dynastica Dynasty Warriors Online Dynasty of the Magi EIN (Epicus Incognitus) EVE Online Earth Eternal Earth and Beyond Earthrise Eclipse War Ecol Tactics Online Eden Eternal Edge of Space Einherjar - The Viking's Blood Elder Scrolls Online Eldevin Elf Online Elite: Dangerous Embers of Caerus Emil Chronicle Online Empire Empire & State Empire Craft Empire Universe 3 EmpireQuest Empires of Galldon End of Nations Endless Ages Endless Blue Moon Online Endless Online Entropia Universe EpicDuel Erebus: Travia Reborn Eredan Eternal Blade Eternal Lands Eternal Saga Ether Fields Ether Saga Online Eudemons Online EuroGangster EverEmber Online EverQuest Next EverQuest Online Adventures Evernight Everquest Everquest II Evony Exarch Exorace F.E.A.R. Online Face of Mankind Fairyland Online Fall of Rome Fallen Earth Fallen Sword Fallout 4 Fallout Online Family Guy Online Fantage Fantasy Earth Zero Fantasy Realm Online Fantasy Tales Online Fantasy Worlds: Rhynn Faunasphere Faxion Online Fearless Fantasy Ferentus Ferion Fiesta Online Final Fantasy Type-0 HD Final Fantasy XI Final Fantasy XIV Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn Firefall Fists of Fu Florensia Flyff Football Manager Live Football Superstars Force of Arms Forge Forsaken Uprising Forsaken World Fortnite Fortuna Forum for Discussion of Everlight Freaky Creatures Free Realms Freesky Online Freeworld Fung Wan Online Furcadia Fury Fusion Fall
G-L
GalaXseeds Galactic Command Online Game of Thrones: Seven Kingdoms Gameglobe Gate To Heavens Gates of Andaron Gatheryn Gauntlet Gekkeiju Online Ghost Online Ghost Recon Online Gladiatus Glitch Global Agenda Global Soccer Gloria Victis Glory of Gods GoGoRacer Goal Line Blitz Gods and Heroes GodsWar Online Golemizer Golf Star GoonZu Online Graal Kingdoms Granado Espada Online Grand Chase Grand Fantasia Grepolis Grimlands Guild Wars Guild Wars 2 Guild Wars Factions Guild Wars Nightfall H1Z1 Habbo Hotel Hailan Rising HaloSphere2 Haven & Hearth Hawken Heart Forth Alicia Hearthstone: Heroes of Warcraft Helbreath Hellgate Hellgate: London Hello Kitty Online Hero Online Hero Zero Hero's Journey Hero: 108 Online HeroSmash Heroes & Generals Heroes & Legends: Conquerors of Kolhar Heroes in the Sky Heroes of Atlan Heroes of Bestia Heroes of Gaia Heroes of Might and Magic Online Heroes of Thessalonica Heroes of Three Kingdoms Heroes of the Storm Hex Holic Online Hostile Space Hunter Blade Huxley Icewind Dale: Enhanced Edition Illutia Illyriad Immortals USA Imperator Imperian Inferno Legend Infestation: Survivor Stories Infinite Crisis Infinity Infinity Iris Online Iron Grip: Marauders Irth Worlds Island Forge Islands of War Istaria: Chronicles of the Gifted Jade Dynasty Jagged Alliance Online Juggernaut Jumpgate Jumpgate Evolution KAL Online Kakele Online Kaos War Karos Online Kartuga Kicks Online King of Kings 3 Kingdom Heroes Kingdom Under Fire II Kingdom of Drakkar Kingory Kings Era Kings and Legends Kings of the Realm KingsRoad Kitsu Saga Kiwarriors Knight Age Knight Online Knights of Dream City Kothuria Kung Foo! Kunlun Online Kyn L.A.W. LEGO Universe La Tale Land of Chaos Online Landmark Lands of Hope: Redemption LastChaos League of Angels League of Legends - Clash of Fates Legend of Edda: Vengeance Legend of Golden Plume Legend of Grimrock 2 Legend of Katha Legend of Mir 2 Legend of Mir 3 Legendary Champions Lego Minifigures Online Lichdom: Battlemage Life is Feudal Light of Nova Lime Odyssey Line of Defense Lineage Lineage Eternal: Twilight Resistance Lineage II Linkrealms Loong Online Lord of the Rings Online Lords Online Lords of the Fallen Lost Saga Lucent Heart Lunia Lusternia: Age of Ascension Luvinia World
M-Q
MU Online Mabinogi Maestia: Rise of Keledus MagiKnights Magic Barrage Magic World Online Manga Fighter MapleStory Martial Heroes Marvel Heroes Marvel Super Hero Squad Online Marvel: Avengers Alliance Mass Effect 4 MechWarrior Online Megaten Meridian 59 : Evolution Merlin MetalMercs Metaplace Metin 2 MicroVolts Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor Midkemia Online Might & Magic Heroes: Kingdoms Might & Magic X: Legacy MilMo Minecraft Mini Fighter Minions of Mirth Ministry of War Monato Esprit Monkey King Online Monkey Quest Monster & Me Monster Madness Online MonsterMMORPG Moonlight Online: Tales of Eternal Blood Moonrise Mordavia Mortal Online Mourning My Lands Myst Online: URU Live Myth Angels Online Myth War Myth War 2 Mythborne Mytheon Mythic Saga Mythos N.E.O Online NIDA Online Nadirim Naviage: The Power of Capital Navy Field Need for Speed World Nemexia Neo's Land NeoSteam Neocron Nether Neverwinter Nexus: The Kingdom Of The Winds NinjaTrick NosTale Novus Aeterno Oberin Odin Quest Odyssey RPG Ogre Island Omerta 3 Online Boxing Manager Onverse Oort Online Order & Chaos Online Order of Magic Original Blood Origins Return Origins of Malu Orion's Belt Otherland Forums OverSoul Overkings Overwatch Oz Online Oz World Pandora Saga Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen Panzar Parabellum Parallel Kingdom Parfait Station Path of Exile Pathfinder Online Perfect World Perpetuum Online Persona V Phantasy Star Online 2 Phantasy Star Universe Phoenix Dynasty Online Phylon Pi Story Picaroon Pillars of Eternity Pirate Galaxy Pirate Storm Pirate101 PirateKing Online Pirates of the Burning Sea Pirates of the Caribbean Online Pixie Hollow Planeshift Planet Arkadia Planet Calypso PlanetSide 2 Planetside Planets³ Playboy Manager Pocket Legends Pockie Ninja Pockie Pirates Pockie Saints Pokémon X and Y PoxNora Prime World Prime: Battle for Dominus Priston Tale Priston Tale II Prius Online Prodigy Project Blackout Project Gorgon Project Powder Project Titan Forums Project Wiki Project Zomboid Puzzle Pirates Quest for Infamy Quickhit Football
R-S
R2 Online RAN Online RF Online ROSE Online Rage of 3 Kingdoms Ragnarok Online Ragnarok Online II RaiderZ Rail Nation Rakion Rappelz RappelzSEA Ravenmarch Realm Fighter Realm of Sierra Realm of the Mad God Realm of the Titans Realms Online Rebel Galaxy Reclamation Red Stone Red War: Edem's Curse Regnum Online Remnant Knights Renaissance Repulse Requiem: Memento Mori Rift RiotZone Rise Rise of Dragonian Era Rise of Empire Rise of the Tycoon Risen 3: Titan Lords Rising of King Risk Your Life Rivality Rockfree Rohan: Blood Feud Role Play Worlds Roll n Rock Roma Victor Romadoria Rosh Online Roto X Rubies of Eventide Ruin Online Rumble Fighter Runes of Magic Runescape Rust Rusty Hearts Ryzom S4 League SAGA SD Gundam Capsule Fighter Online SMITE SUN Sacred 3 Sagramore Salem SaySayGirls Scarlet Blade Scions of Fate Seal Online: Evolution Second Chance Heroes Second Life Secret of the Solstice Seed Serenia Fantasy Seven Seas Saga Seven Souls Online Sevencore Shadow Realms Shadow of Legend Shadowbane Shadowgate Shadowrun Online Shaiya Shards Online Shattered Galaxy Sho Online Shot Online Shroud of the Avatar SideQuest Siege on Stars Sigonyth: Desert Eternity Silkroad Online Skyblade Skyforge SmashMuck Champions Smoo Online Soldier Front Soul Master Soul Order Online Soul of Guardian South Park: The Stick of Truth Space Heroes Universe Sparta: War of Empires Spellcasters Sphere Spiral Knights Spirit Tales Splash Fighters Squad Wars Star Citizen Star Conflict Star Sonata 2 Star Stable Star Supremacy Star Trek Online Star Trek: Infinite Space Star Wars Galaxies Star Wars: Clone Wars Adventures Star Wars: The Old Republic StarQuest Online Starbound Stargate Worlds Starlight Story Starpires State of Decay SteelWar Online Stone Age 2 Stormfall: Age of War Stormthrone Storybricks Stronghold Kingdoms Styx: Master of Shadows Sudden Attack Supremacy 1914 Supreme Destiny Sword Girls Sword of Destiny: Rise of Aions SwordX Swords of Heavens Swordsman
T-Z
TERA TS Online TUG Tabula Rasa Tactica Online Tales Runner Tales of Fantasy Tales of Pirates Tales of Pirates II Tales of Solaris Talisman Online Tamer Saga Tank Ace Tantra Online Tatsumaki: Land at War Terra Militaris TerraWorld Online Terraria Thang Online The 4th Coming The Agency The Aurora World The Banner Saga The Black Watchmen The Chronicle The Chronicles of Spellborn The Crew The Division The Epic Might The Hammers End The Incredible Adventures of Van Helsing The Incredible Adventures of Van Helsing 2 The Legend of Ares The Lost Titans The Matrix Online The Mighty Quest for Epic Loot The Missing Ink The Mummy Online The Myth of Soma The Pride of Taern The Realm Online The Repopulation The Secret World The Sims Online The Strategems The West The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt Theralon There Therian Saga Thrones of Chaos Tibia Tibia Micro Edition Tiger Knight Titan Siege Titans of Time Toontown Online Top Speed Topia Online Torchlight Torment: Tides of Numenera Total Domination Transformers Universe Transistor Transverse Traveller AR Travia Online Travian Triad Wars Trials of Ascension Tribal Hero Tribal Wars Tribes Universe Trickster Online Trove Troy Online True Fantasy Live Online Turf Battles Twelve Sky Twelve Sky 2 Twilight War Tynon U.B. Funkeys UFO Online URDEAD Online Ultima Forever: Quest for the Avatar Ultima Online Ultima X: Odyssey Ultimate Naruto Ultimate Soccer Boss Uncharted Waters Online Undercover 2: Merc Wars Underlight Unification Wars Universe Online Utopia Valkyrie Sky Vampire Lord Online Vanguard: Saga of Heroes Vanquish Space Vector City Racers Vendetta Online Victory - Age of Racing Vindictus Virtonomics Vis Gladius Visions of Zosimos VoidExpanse Voyage Century Online W.E.L.L. Online WAR (Warhammer Online) WAR2 Glory WYD Global Wakfu War Thunder War of 2012 War of Angels War of Legends War of Mercenaries War of Thrones War of the Immortals WarFlow Waren Story Warflare Wargame1942 Warhammer 40,000: Eternal Crusade Warhammer 40K: Dark Millennium Online Warhammer Online: Wrath of Heroes Warkeepers Warrior Epic Wartune Wasteland 2 WebLords Wild West Online WildStar Wind of Luck WindSlayer 2 Wings of Destiny Wish Wizard101 Wizardry Online Wizards and Champions Wonder King Wonderland Online World Golf Tour World of Battles World of Darkness World of Heroes World of Kung Fu World of Pirates World of Speed World of Tanks World of Tanks Generals World of Warcraft World of Warplanes World of Warriors World of Warships World of the Living Dead WorldAlpha Wurm Online Xenoblade Chronicles: X Xenocell Xiah Xsyon Xulu YS Online Yitien ZU Online Zentia Zero Online Zero Online: The Andromeda Crisis Zodiac Online Zombies Ate My Pizza eRepublik

MMORPG.com Discussion Forums

General Discussion

General Discussion 

The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Are We Getting Too Smart for MMOs?

6 Pages « 1 2 3 4 5 6 » Search
117 posts found
  Goatgod76

Novice Member

Joined: 6/24/06
Posts: 1226

1/17/13 7:18:55 PM#81
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Hrimnir
Originally posted by Quirhid

Like Theocritus said, more experienced, not smarter. And no, old MMOs weren't timeconsuming "in a good way" - far from it. Infact, they were timeconsuming the worst possible way: through extensive grind and timesinks which made people spend more time and hence pay more money in subscription fees.

Todays market is smarter than to fall for that trap. Well, most people are anyway.

Old MMOs didn't have instructions and walkthroughs on sites because no one really gave a fuck back then. MMOs were a niché market as a whole.

Thus proving my long standing point that modern MMO players aren't actually MMO players.  And no, we didnt "fall for any trap"  We were fully aware of the length of the stick vs the carrot, we just actually enjoyed that aspect of the genre.

What kind of hair splitting double talk is that?

If a player plays a MMO, he is a MMO player. He may like different aspects of it than you. And taste certainly changes over time. But you don't have the claim of what "mmo players" are.

Just like movie goers. Are people who like super hero movies not "movie goers" just because they like something that is not available in the 50s?

 

Um...sorry but EQ absolutely had walk throughs and sites for such things mainly provided by the players, not 3rd party companies. Actually a few....they weren't just so overused and abundant as they are now. Such posts make it hard for me to believe some people have played them and just speak as though they did....while really knowing very little to nothing about them.

I will agree we aren't getting too smart for them, just more experienced.  The more experience you get with it, the quicker you can fall into the next one comfortably with little trouble. Of course though this can also be chalked up to most of them being the same thing in a different wrapper too, with little innovation of new ideas and features to have to learn....IMO of course.

 

 

  darkkblack

Novice Member

Joined: 1/16/13
Posts: 37

1/17/13 7:49:44 PM#82

I can understand where the op is coming from. In a way having the information and the strategies all map for you can take away from the game experience overall.

As for me when I start a new game that I know nothing about I do like to research and get some heads up on which direction suits my own play style. Most of the time a guide is not good enough to get me to the level I want. And at times the guide is out of date and I do have to adapt my game to my resources or how others are able to roll my current config over so easily.

The great game creators know when to take the game up a notch and release a new expansion.

  User Deleted
1/17/13 7:51:11 PM#83
Judging by some of the posts on this site, I'm going to have to go with no.
  Caliburn101

Novice Member

Joined: 3/30/11
Posts: 647

"Imagination is more important than knowledge." Albert Einstein

1/18/13 4:49:37 AM#84
Originally posted by Icewhite
Originally posted by kadepsyson

It is said children are our future.  I see today's children, and I have no hope.

That's nice.  You are the children I see.

Sorry, you're the third young person I've seen (so far) today pullng the "damn younger generation yarrr!" thing.

The sheer irony only cheers a person up the first couple of times.

When I was a boy in Yorkshire, we used to have to get up in the morning 2 hours before we went to bed, walk 50 miles to work even in blizzards (which happened every day). We lived in a rolled up newspaper in the middle of the road and when we got home from our child-labours our father would kill us, have us buried in cesspit and dance on our graves singing halleluyah...

... and we STILL had to get up the next day for work...

But tell that to the freeloading 'self-entitled yoof' of today... and they don't beleive ya!

  oubers

Novice Member

Joined: 11/14/11
Posts: 889

1/18/13 4:57:00 AM#85
Originally posted by SoulSurfer
Originally posted by oubers

 

I raise you a cat!

ok

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 20515

1/18/13 6:32:04 PM#86
Originally posted by Banaghran
 

You are talking about few % "choices", you are like the ej types obsessing with 0.5% dps difference from a head socket.

And on top of it, you think this means variability.

This is what i respectfully disagree with.

If you would be able to spawn any item, how many gear pieces would be different between the wizz builds?

And push nuke watch mana was your argument, i just mentioned it as a example what you are missing imo from the past just as you overstate the present.

Flame on!

:)

Well, you can go onto D3build (or something like taht) and check. There is quite a bit of variety of builds people are using. In fact, Blizz has published a stat once (long time ago, so i don't have the cite, that the biggest build is less than 2% of the population.

Once again, you have no clue about the game if you say 0.5% dps. A good CM build and a good archon build, the DPS difference (sheet DPS, not actual output) is more like 100%.

Furthermore, in terms of actual gear pieces difference (assuming you can get any legendary), the CM build would have a different BIS want/off-hand/helm .. and ring & legs. So at least 5, if not more. And more importantly you are stacking different stats. You don't think it is different to max attack speed, instead of DPS?

And that is just TWO builds. There are more. Oh one more example. If you do a zero dog build in WD, the head, 2 rings, off-hand and amulet has to be a certain set to reduce CD. So that is 5 items different than most other builds.

May be you want to discuss a game you know better?

How about STO? Shall we discuss teh difference between all phaser build vs all canon build?

  birdycephon

Novice Member

Joined: 8/08/09
Posts: 1327

Not Safe For Woona (NSFW)

1/18/13 6:51:49 PM#87
It's most likely that the average age of an MMO player has gone up.
  Ezhae

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/03/06
Posts: 735

1/18/13 7:12:13 PM#88

Nope, not really. I think the problem is in alarge part in saturation. Back in 'ye old days' you had only a handful of prominent MMOs, each catering to very different niche of people, each offering very different playstyle. The communities were much smaller and thus tighter, you didn't have all that many big sites commenting on every detail of the industry, etc. 

These days? You get a new MMO release every month, more less, with most of them being clones of eachother (mainly the ton of licensed asian MMOs where the only difference is slight change in setting for most of the time), and very little variety, hence the market itself feels rather stagnant despite constant stream of new titles. 

It's the same with singleplayer games really. The way the whole industry works now is that you can't really make whole lot of games that will last you for months because next week a new title will be out and everyone will go try it out. Just look at release schedule for March - Tomb Raider, SimCity, Bioshock, Heart of the Swarm, all big titles cramped into single month.

 

Add to that the fact that the games are being made more player firendly, which doesnt have to mean dumbed down. You don't need to grind for days just to level up, the death penalties in majority of games are minimal if at all, everything is being made more accessible. That in turn leads to the overall move away froms ubscription model, because MMOs are no longer game syou are expected to play every day for several hour just to make any progress at all. They've became something that you can just turn on, play for a bit, then log off and return in a week or when new content gets pushed out. 

 

While it sure can annoy the mor e"hardcore" crowd, in the big picture it's actually better for the majority that is less competitive and just wants to get their enjoynment from the title. Eventuallys oemone will make a more niche title that will satisfy those people, probably through a kickstarter or other similar way of funding (like Pathfinder might turn out), but for now it will be mostly games created for wider audience from the bigger player son the market. It's just more reasonable from their standpoint. 

  Alberel

Novice Member

Joined: 12/02/09
Posts: 1121

1/18/13 7:23:29 PM#89
Originally posted by fat_taddler

I watched an interesting video the other day regarding this topic (see link below).   I think it may explain to some extent why MMO's seem to feel "dumbed down"  to many players these days or why so many games only keep us engaged for a month or two at best.

A lot of what made the older MMO's so much more immersive and time consuming (in a good way) was the fact that most of us had no idea what we were doing.  This in and of itself was a huge part of the fun and contributed greatly to the social aspects of games.

These days, players can simply go to a website and within minutes they can see the most optimized way to play any class.

Couple this with Youtube videos on boss strats, money making techniques, etc and you've basically taken a large portion of the challenge out of any MMO.   

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1nl27rS-kM

This is true, but not in the ways that some people in this thread seem to be thinking. It's really a combination of several things that has caused this effect.

  • When MMOs were newer to us we didn't fully understand the mechanics and concepts so we were less adept at predicting, pre-empting and outwitting the game's systems. As such they kept us interested for longer as the game remained a mystery for longer.
  • Games have dumbed down their systems. As much as many people would like to argue otherwise this IS true. For the most part this is actually the result of them directly integrating the wikis/databases into the game (such as WoW's questhelper). Quests/boss encounters are generally shorter and easier too. We rarely see epic quests of the length seen in older MMOs and we rarely see game-wide mystery style quests that require a community effort to solve. Game worlds are smaller and less complex and there are rarely any open world areas that require groups to explore.
  • Online databases and wikis have become more prevalent and better updated. The problem here is also compounded by how easy it is to complete content. It used to take quite a while before a quest or encounter was added to an online database because of how long it took for people to actually do it the first time. Fewer people completing content meant smaller and less regular updates on the databases which in turn held back the pace of both.
  • Betas! I haven't seen anyone mention this one yet. Whenever ANY MMO releases now everyone that took part in the beta has a buttload of stuff ready to upload to the wiki as soon as the NDA drops. This is a HUGE problem in my opinion. Whenever a WoW expansion launches now pretty much everything is on the wiki/database websites the second that beta NDA lifts.
So like I said, there are a combination of things that contribute to this, it's not just one thing. The solution? I'm really not sure, though I wouldn't be averse to developers making their systems less transparent and leaving some mystery in their games about how things work. FFXI had a lot of stuff like this, and there are still players today with superstitions in the game such as facing a certain direction when crafting yielding better results. I miss things like that in MMOs, these days we've reduced the game world to a science which IMO defeats the entire point of it being a fantasy world.
  Banaghran

Novice Member

Joined: 1/17/12
Posts: 872

1/18/13 7:50:16 PM#90
Originally posted by nariusseldon

Well, you can go onto D3build (or something like taht) and check. There is quite a bit of variety of builds people are using. In fact, Blizz has published a stat once (long time ago, so i don't have the cite, that the biggest build is less than 2% of the population.

Once again, you have no clue about the game if you say 0.5% dps. A good CM build and a good archon build, the DPS difference (sheet DPS, not actual output) is more like 100%.

Furthermore, in terms of actual gear pieces difference (assuming you can get any legendary), the CM build would have a different BIS want/off-hand/helm .. and ring & legs. So at least 5, if not more. And more importantly you are stacking different stats. You don't think it is different to max attack speed, instead of DPS?

And that is just TWO builds. There are more. Oh one more example. If you do a zero dog build in WD, the head, 2 rings, off-hand and amulet has to be a certain set to reduce CD. So that is 5 items different than most other builds.

May be you want to discuss a game you know better?

How about STO? Shall we discuss teh difference between all phaser build vs all canon build?

The 2% was extensively talked about, and it is laughable to assume that blizz does not take a build with just one random rune different (say resist on energy armor instead of 35%) as a different build.

So does not the wd increase its dps? Or the cm wizz? Using the same stats as everyone else? Do you really find 2-5 items (that still have to preferably feature the other stats) enough variability?

And ofcourse the only point that was remotely on topic got lost in the process...

Flame on!

:)

 

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 20515

1/21/13 1:40:12 AM#91
Originally posted by Banaghran
 

The 2% was extensively talked about, and it is laughable to assume that blizz does not take a build with just one random rune different (say resist on energy armor instead of 35%) as a different build.

So does not the wd increase its dps? Or the cm wizz? Using the same stats as everyone else? Do you really find 2-5 items (that still have to preferably feature the other stats) enough variability?

And ofcourse the only point that was remotely on topic got lost in the process...

Flame on!

:)

 

The CM wizz point is to use frost nova to permanent lock-up the mobs. So to do that efficient, you need to max crit and attack speed. In fact, much of the guide as you to ignore DPS. Plus, sheet DPS is not true dps because different skills have different multiplers and the way that CM wiz works, you can get a high multiplier. The point is .. it is NOT using the same stat the same way as everyone else. In fact read the forums, it is not uncommon to sacrifice DPS for some other crucical stat. THere is a debate about how important life-steal is (personally i use none of it, but have a weapon with it for switching in some situation) in archon build.

And there are 13 slots for a character. 5 out of 13 is HUGE. Plus, those are just BIS. We are talking about different stat priority in ALL OF THEM. The same item with attack speed and crit chance will be valued highly by some build, and not at all by some other.

I think this is right on topic. It shows the depth of combat systems in modern games.

 

  LauraFrost

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/20/13
Posts: 96

1/21/13 3:36:38 AM#92
Originally posted by fat_taddler

I watched an interesting video the other day regarding this topic (see link below).   I think it may explain to some extent why MMO's seem to feel "dumbed down"  to many players these days or why so many games only keep us engaged for a month or two at best.

A lot of what made the older MMO's so much more immersive and time consuming (in a good way) was the fact that most of us had no idea what we were doing.  This in and of itself was a huge part of the fun and contributed greatly to the social aspects of games.

These days, players can simply go to a website and within minutes they can see the most optimized way to play any class.

Couple this with Youtube videos on boss strats, money making techniques, etc and you've basically taken a large portion of the challenge out of any MMO.   

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1nl27rS-kM

 

I disagree.

We didn't become "smarter" actually, we became stupider.

MMORPGs are dumbed down and that's a fact which I can remind some of you and inform everyone else who's MMORPG experience doesn't exceed 8-9 years.

 

MMORPGs now hand-hold you all the way through quest-hubs with mini-maps, arrows, exclamation marks on NPCs indicating quests, neon-signs pointing at where you should go. God forbid the player needs to actually play the game. If this is not dumbing down a genre, I don't know what is.

Take the faction system of EverQuest and take the Reputation system of WoW; that's a very clear indication of dumbing down a "feature". Now check the recent games, no "Faction" system whatsoever.

In older games every NPC was targetable, killable (sometimes the consequences are harsh) but you do get the option to make that town hate your guts or love you. Where's this in the recent games? Now everything is rigidly established and you can do nothing about it.

Older MMORPGs had more player-to-player interaction (does anyone even dares to disagree with this? seriously guys?) now 99% of your time in MMORPGs solo-questing, using AH and even in GROUPS sometimes you don't even interact with other players.

 

These are just a few examples, facts, on how MMORPGs were dumbed down. We didn't become smarter actually most players are so stupid they would quit the MMORPG genre if it goes back to the original track that it was.

 

MMORPGs now are not the same genre of UO, EQ, AC and SWG. They are totally DIFFERENT game genre. Too different actually, and different doesn't necessary mean "better" or "worse" it's just... different, fair? I think it's fair. What I want is THAT MMORPG and not the ones being released recently. I know exactly what I want. Just give me these hundreds of features that are no longer available in the market.

 

 

  Loke666

Elite Member

Joined: 10/29/07
Posts: 16835

1/21/13 3:54:31 AM#93

Hardly. But there is a limit to how long time you can do the exact same thing over and over.

Computer game genres needs to change now and then if they want to keep selling their games. Even FPS games have gone a long way from "Doom" to the current games and MMOs needs to change as well.

Just making things easier to attract more people worked in 2005 but not in 2013.

  LauraFrost

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/20/13
Posts: 96

1/21/13 4:26:49 AM#94
Originally posted by Loke666

Hardly. But there is a limit to how long time you can do the exact same thing over and over.

Computer game genres needs to change now and then if they want to keep selling their games. Even FPS games have gone a long way from "Doom" to the current games and MMOs needs to change as well.

Just making things easier to attract more people worked in 2005 but not in 2013.

 

I'm just grateful some developers never "yeild" to that notion. Take Sid Meiers for instance, Civilization 3 could have went Real Time Strategy with all the hype (trillions of people play RTS, lots of money) but he didn't change the CORE of what Civilization was, Turn Based.

I am grateful for that, if Turn Based Strategy games just suddenly disappear from the market and they were substituded with Real Time Strategy games I would be sad. I do enjoy RTS and I do enjoy TBS too, each one scratches an itch. Same goes to Elder Scroll (First Person View, Open World) if they release ES in 3rd person with Linear Story-Line progress then that would be a sad thing.

 

Vareity is the key word here. I LONG for a game that combines the features of EverQuest, I can list you these features just do 80% of them! (First Person View, no hand holding, group oriented, big dungeons, no instancing or very limited instanceing..etc). I don't want WoWish games to be completely destroyed! Why would I want that? if people like them then sure! but I also want ONE, just ONE new game like EverQuest (or close to it .... or expands on it)

 

  Scot

Elite Member

Joined: 10/10/03
Posts: 5394

1/21/13 4:37:06 AM#95

Having turn based and RTS games gives us both types of gameplay. One is not better then the other, the gaming industry is stronger because it is using more types of gameplay in its games.

But the development of MMO's has been about removing all features apart from levelling. There is less depth of play and only one template to make MMO's from. We are not getting smarter, MMO's are becoming more linear, more two dimensional. If you only have to level, do not need to group and have a arrow over you head pointing the way it's hardly feature rich gameplay is it?

  Lovely_Laly

Novice Member

Joined: 11/02/10
Posts: 736

game is also real

1/21/13 4:43:57 AM#96

IMO, same problem one more time: old days MMO were unique and NEW.

Now they sells us almost same stuff with new name and getting upset when nobody like it or leave 1 month later.

I need not that long to find out new game XXX is pale copy of WoW, EQ, UO with few own features (these few I'll discover for some time then go back to play old polished game of same kind).

I guess I'm dumb to buy over and over same stuff... Thanks devs for never let me forget old games. =XD

try before buy, even if it's a game to avoid bad surprises.
Worst surprises for me: Aion, GW2

  Trionicus

Novice Member

Joined: 1/31/12
Posts: 488

1/21/13 4:59:02 AM#97

I went through several phases that held the same opinions of almost everyone who posted in this thread. The answer should be easy though, some are smarter than others therefore some will be TOO - smart or experienced or both and then some. That's just reality right? Not all gamers have the same level of intelligence or experience.

For some, playing modern MMO's has become tedious. <Searching brain for metaphor> like playing tic tac toe. At some point you master the game and it is no longer a question of being challenged but more of a torture / grind scenario.

  Caliburn101

Novice Member

Joined: 3/30/11
Posts: 647

"Imagination is more important than knowledge." Albert Einstein

1/21/13 4:59:13 AM#98

There's a Hawkwind song called 'Mindless in Utopia'.

That's what MMOs have become;

Easy access, no gating, rapid advancement, 'everyone a leet', P2W, bubblegum and popcorn, no adults required sweet, sweet candyfloss drivel which gives people a three month sugar rush then makes them sick.

The very few exceptions are either incredibly niche or badly managed to the point of disbelief.

WoW is just the low res wallpaper to the MMO computer screen on which these games run...

...alas...

To hack and slash another metaphor;

Recent MMO's are the Damien Hursts of the day to the Leonardo's of yesteryear.

We could see with the early Da Vinci's the future of MMO's - not realised fully yet, but very promising - like the real artists first visions of tanks, helicopters, planes and submarines.

But the Damien's of today ignored the foundations laid and stared pinning butterflies to walls and pumping sharks full of wax.

They then hyped themselves to get money.

Many modern MMOs are just like modern art - piles of colourful, mass appeal steaming **** which the proffessional critics think are innovative and genre defining, and all the other words which they use when they don't know what to say about them.

  Robokapp

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/15/09
Posts: 4813

The only luck I had today was to have you as my opponent.

1/21/13 5:06:17 AM#99

too smart?

 

 

"no LFR...can't make group".

"no hub marked on map - can't quest."

"open-world pvp. can't gather."

 

No. we're too dumb to function.

  MurlockDance

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/20/10
Posts: 1225

1/21/13 5:29:07 AM#100
Originally posted by fat_taddler

I watched an interesting video the other day regarding this topic (see link below).   I think it may explain to some extent why MMO's seem to feel "dumbed down"  to many players these days or why so many games only keep us engaged for a month or two at best.

A lot of what made the older MMO's so much more immersive and time consuming (in a good way) was the fact that most of us had no idea what we were doing.  This in and of itself was a huge part of the fun and contributed greatly to the social aspects of games.

These days, players can simply go to a website and within minutes they can see the most optimized way to play any class.

Couple this with Youtube videos on boss strats, money making techniques, etc and you've basically taken a large portion of the challenge out of any MMO.   

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1nl27rS-kM

No, I don't agree.

Take EQ for example. It might not have had guides for the first little bit of its existance, but by 2001 there were already plenty of guides and databases for this, that, and the other thing. It was still time consuming, but not for the reasons you mention.

It was the way it was organized : it had a lot of downtime. The mobs had lots of hps with respect to how much damage players could dish out. So each fight took longer than fights do nowadays. You had to meditate between fights.

Then there was setting up your hotbar with spells (no you could not just pop in and out the little icon that lets you cast your spell, you had to sit down and memorize it, which took time), getting from point A to point B because there was no easy travel, learning craft, getting your corpse back if you died, getting groups together, etc.

In DAoC, it took a long time to get from one part of the frontier to the other in the RvR zone, even if you knew the lay of the land. If you died and needed to be teleported, I think you had to wait for something like 20 minutes sometimes to be teleported back.

Games were slower and required a lot of grouping, regardless of there being guides, cookie cutter specs, etc.

Playing MUDs and MMOs since 1994.

6 Pages « 1 2 3 4 5 6 » Search