Originally posted by Gaia_Hunte

 

Arenanet has between 250 and 300 employees now.

 

They are over 300 emplayees now ;)

https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/forum/game/bltc/What-to-buy-with-800-gems/first#post1218058

Originally posted by maskedweasel

GW2 does have gems, but again, we don't know how that plays out in comparison, when you look at revenue.

EA lays off tons of people in different studios everywhere,   NCSoft does just as much, which Arenanet is a part of.  NCSoft will choose what studio needs to layoff who as they have done in previous years. 

Except ANet just hired more people last week.

Originally posted by Crunchy222

I always knew there would be a crowd that would never get tired of shallow game mechanics and zero complexity.

However.  I knew a whole boatload of people who left to play this game when it launched.  A lot came back within a few weeks. More in a month.  I dont know a single person whos playing this now.

Yeah i know, theres a lot still playing the game...like i said, the market for shallow is always going to be there which is why they keep pumping out games like this.  I think their greatest weapon was B2P and no sub.  Had this been a game with a sub the situation with the game would be a lot more obvious than it is now.

 

I am glad this game exists however, it keeps the crowd that always begs for easier, less complex, and faster occupied...hopefully forever.

 

I know this post will come off as super negative but i mean this all with the best, every type of gamer should have a decent game to play.

Now if we could just get a well made, complex sandbox, with full loot, that isnt eve out there for the other side.  I dont mind grind, im not scared of progression or knowing others are ahead of me, i like to read up and theorize...soon i hope

 

Either way, enjoy your instanced pvp and public quest events ` glad its working out!

I read shallow here I read shallow there do PLEASE explain to me WHAT makes the game shallow, what aspects of it and what did you do when you played it.

If you can't anwser any of these questions I have then your post is shallow and pointless.

Originally posted by Torgrim

Originally posted by Crunchy222

I always knew there would be a crowd that would never get tired of shallow game mechanics and zero complexity.

However.  I knew a whole boatload of people who left to play this game when it launched.  A lot came back within a few weeks. More in a month.  I dont know a single person whos playing this now.

Yeah i know, theres a lot still playing the game...like i said, the market for shallow is always going to be there which is why they keep pumping out games like this.  I think their greatest weapon was B2P and no sub.  Had this been a game with a sub the situation with the game would be a lot more obvious than it is now.

 

I am glad this game exists however, it keeps the crowd that always begs for easier, less complex, and faster occupied...hopefully forever.

 

I know this post will come off as super negative but i mean this all with the best, every type of gamer should have a decent game to play.

Now if we could just get a well made, complex sandbox, with full loot, that isnt eve out there for the other side.  I dont mind grind, im not scared of progression or knowing others are ahead of me, i like to read up and theorize...soon i hope

 

Either way, enjoy your instanced pvp and public quest events ` glad its working out!

 

I read shallow here I read shallow there do PLEASE explain to me WHAT makes the game shallow, what aspects of it and what did you do when you played it.

If you can't anwser any of these questions I have then your post is shallow and pointless.

I don't know bro but i thought you would be the one who would understand what he meant by GW2 being shallow..

Originally posted by Torgrim

Why do game developers listen to these punks who want everything served on a golden platter with little effort needed and in the same time these people will leave after the first month anyway to scourge the forums for the next big hit.

Since when did the lazy carrot on a stick kids and I got a job,a wife and 2 children gamers have more power than the average gamer?

I'm not that good with numbers but boxsales versus develop time don't always equal profit.

Profit with boxsales AND keep them subs for months are the real profit in both long term and short term.

Do studios enjoy losing money?, They must, due to how the games been doing for the past 7 years except GW2.

It's a really weird cycle that has evolved, and it looks like It won't stop anytime soon.

 

Originally posted by Torgrim
Checkout older games from late 80s to 2000 and compare them to games after 2000 to 2012 and you can clearly see the games have gone from difficult and challenging to fast food industry gameplay with little brain activity needed to be able to play.

Originally posted by Torgrim

OP great post +1

That's why I have a sub going in Vanguard, that's the only game I really still get the oldschool feeling even if they have made some things alittle easier over the years.

 

Originally posted by LoverNoFighter

Game is....bland.

Quit months ago after reaching max level on my toon.

 

Now I've tons of fun grinding my Master Rifleman on Dantooine. ;-)

Made me lolz......GW2 is bland while SWTOR is a cool game now?

Glad you enjoy it.....and thnx for the laugh.

Originally posted by Distopia

How is anything an indication of success or failure at this point? For an MMO to be successful it must overcome more hurdles than simply selling boxes, that goes for the B2P model point as well. An MMO's success greatly depends on how relevant it remains over a course of years not the first few months.

My major gripe with this form of success calculation is that many MMO's sell well when they release, be it 1-2 million or even 3 it really doesn't mean a game is going to be successful at offering a MMO experience. These are sales based on hype for the most part.

Come back two years from now and such a point will be relevant as well as accurate if things remain on the up for A-net.

Based on word of mouth right now, the retention based aspects of the game are suffering from some series problems. Much like they were in TOR at this point of it's life, the main factor here for success is how they deal with those issues.

Your personal subjective definition of success is irrelevant. I can produce anything i want as a measure of success or failure and proclaim it success or failure.

Example: WoW is failure because it has gnomes.

ANet set their goals and if that goals were reached its a SUCCESS (and its pretty obvious they DID reach them)

Next step will be how well expansion sells. But for now and until expansion its a SUCCESS.

Oh, and word of mouth?

Originally posted by oubers

Made me lolz......GW2 is bland while SWTOR is a cool game now?

Glad you enjoy it.....and thnx for the laugh.

 

Its not the game you are looking for ;P

Originally posted by mikahr

Originally posted by Distopia

How is anything an indication of success or failure at this point? For an MMO to be successful it must overcome more hurdles than simply selling boxes, that goes for the B2P model point as well. An MMO's success greatly depends on how relevant it remains over a course of years not the first few months.

My major gripe with this form of success calculation is that many MMO's sell well when they release, be it 1-2 million or even 3 it really doesn't mean a game is going to be successful at offering a MMO experience. These are sales based on hype for the most part.

Come back two years from now and such a point will be relevant as well as accurate if things remain on the up for A-net.

Based on word of mouth right now, the retention based aspects of the game are suffering from some series problems. Much like they were in TOR at this point of it's life, the main factor here for success is how they deal with those issues.

Your personal subjective definition of success is irrelevant. I can produce anything i want as a measure of success or failure and proclaim it success or failure.

Example: WoW is failure because it has gnomes.

ANet set their goals and if that goals were reached its a SUCCESS (and its pretty obvious they DID reach them)

Next step will be how well expansion sells. But for now and until expansion its a SUCCESS.

 

Actually according to Mike O brian he wants to beat WOW and become number one so nope if we are talking about goals set by Anet then GW2 isn't a success yet.

Originally posted by Doogiehowse

Actually according to Mike O brian he wants to beat WOW and become number one so nope if we are talking about goals set by Anet then GW2 isn't a success yet.

Except that is exactly why it is a success for now until the expansion.

How many copies did MOP sell till now again?

Originally posted by Doogiehowser

Originally posted by Torgrim

Originally posted by Crunchy222

I always knew there would be a crowd that would never get tired of shallow game mechanics and zero complexity.

However.  I knew a whole boatload of people who left to play this game when it launched.  A lot came back within a few weeks. More in a month.  I dont know a single person whos playing this now.

Yeah i know, theres a lot still playing the game...like i said, the market for shallow is always going to be there which is why they keep pumping out games like this.  I think their greatest weapon was B2P and no sub.  Had this been a game with a sub the situation with the game would be a lot more obvious than it is now.

 

I am glad this game exists however, it keeps the crowd that always begs for easier, less complex, and faster occupied...hopefully forever.

 

I know this post will come off as super negative but i mean this all with the best, every type of gamer should have a decent game to play.

Now if we could just get a well made, complex sandbox, with full loot, that isnt eve out there for the other side.  I dont mind grind, im not scared of progression or knowing others are ahead of me, i like to read up and theorize...soon i hope

 

Either way, enjoy your instanced pvp and public quest events ` glad its working out!

 

I read shallow here I read shallow there do PLEASE explain to me WHAT makes the game shallow, what aspects of it and what did you do when you played it.

If you can't anwser any of these questions I have then your post is shallow and pointless.

I don't know bro but i thought you would be the one who would understand what he meant by GW2 being shallow..

 

 

Originally posted by Torgrim

Why do game developers listen to these punks who want everything served on a golden platter with little effort needed and in the same time these people will leave after the first month anyway to scourge the forums for the next big hit.

Since when did the lazy carrot on a stick kids and I got a job,a wife and 2 children gamers have more power than the average gamer?

I'm not that good with numbers but boxsales versus develop time don't always equal profit.

Profit with boxsales AND keep them subs for months are the real profit in both long term and short term.

Do studios enjoy losing money?, They must, due to how the games been doing for the past 7 years except GW2.

It's a really weird cycle that has evolved, and it looks like It won't stop anytime soon.

 

 

Originally posted by Torgrim
Checkout older games from late 80s to 2000 and compare them to games after 2000 to 2012 and you can clearly see the games have gone from difficult and challenging to fast food industry gameplay with little brain activity needed to be able to play.

 

Originally posted by Torgrim

OP great post +1

That's why I have a sub going in Vanguard, that's the only game I really still get the oldschool feeling even if they have made some things alittle easier over the years.

 

I know you feel quite proud of yourself and though hahaha got him when you posted this with my quotes.

The word shallow means absolute nothing if you can't explain what is is that makes it shallow.

I really don't know why you thought you were smart by making those quotes about me liking GW2, as also quoted I have a sub running in Vanguard for my oldschool fix and I play GW2 because I find that form of gameplay refreshing and I find the dungeons challengeing and I like the WvW PvP so my quotes somehow in your troll mind should answer my question why he feels GW2 is shallow

Originally posted by Torgrim

 

I know you feel quite proud of yourself and though hahaha got him when you posted this with my quotes.

The word shallow means absolute nothing if you can't explain what is is that makes it shallow.

I really don't know why you thought you were smart by making those quotes about me liking GW2, as also quoted I have a sub running in Vanguard for my oldschool fix and I play GW2 because I find that form of gameplay refreshing and I find the dungeons challengeing and I like the WvW PvP so my quotes somehow in your troll mind should answer my question why he feels GW2 is shallow

 i simply quoted you to answer your own predicament regarding how GW2 is not shallow. But your quots do make for very interesting read . But if we go by dictionary meaning shallow means somethign which lacks depth.

Granted it will vary from person to person but keeping your other posts in mind and your rant about modern games being easy and lackign depth i was hoping you would understand his post better and what he meant when he said 'GW2 is shallow'.

You mentioned that games after 2000 to 2012 and you can clearly see the games have gone from difficult and challenging to fast food industry gameplay with little brain activity needed to be able to play.

Your words not mine. Then you talk about lazy gamers who want everythign handed to them on silver platter. Who and which demographics do you think GW2 devs were aiming for? yes people with jobs, wives and kids who can hop in and out of the game on their own terms.

Why do game developers listen to these punks who want everything served on a golden platter with little effort needed and in the same time these people will leave after the first month anyway to scourge the forums for the next big hit.

Since when did the lazy carrot on a stick kids and I got a job,a wife and 2 children gamers have more power than the average gamer?

Again your words not mine. So yes actually you have already answered OP's question in past i just believe you have a very bi polar thing going on here. But to make it easier i will list the reasons based on your own posts.

1;) Fast food industry gameplay with little brain activity needed.  (Check)

2;) Focusing on players who want everything served to them on silver platter. (Check)

3;) Catering to lazy carrot on stick kids and i got a job, wife and 2 children gamers. (Check)

4.) Games like Vanguard the only game which gives old school feeling these days somethign missing from games like GW2. (Check)

I can go on but isn't that what OP is trying to say but in different words? if this doesn't scream shallow than what does?

As usual the 'shallow lacks complexity' crowd confuse mindless repetition (grind) with 'hardcore gameplay'. 

I don't play much but hop in and play with my son or a couple of mates and we always agree we should do this more often.  The game has a lot of charm IMHO.

Originally posted by Doogiehowser

 i simply quoted you to answer your own predicament regarding how GW2 is not shallow. But your quots do make for very interesting read . But if we go by dictionary meaning shallow means somethign which lacks depth.

Granted it will vary from person to person but keeping your other posts in mind and your rant about modern games being easy and lackign depth i was hoping you would understand his post better and what he meant when he said 'GW2 is shallow'.

You mentioned that games after 2000 to 2012 and you can clearly see the games have gone from difficult and challenging to fast food industry gameplay with little brain activity needed to be able to play.

Your words not mine. Then you talk about lazy gamers whow ant everythign handed to them on silver platter. What do you think GW2 devs were aiming for? yes people with jibs, wives and kids whoc na hop in and out of the game on their own terms.

Why do game developers listen to these punks who want everything served on a golden platter with little effort needed and in the same time these people will leave after the first month anyway to scourge the forums for the next big hit.

Since when did the lazy carrot on a stick kids and I got a job,a wife and 2 children gamers have more power than the average gamer?

Again your words not mine. So yes actually you have already answered OP's question in past i just believe you have a very bi polar thing going on here. But to make it easier i will list the reasons based on your own posts.

1;) Fast fod industry gameplay with little braina ctivity needed

2;) Focusing on players whow ant everything served to them on silver platter

3;) Catering to lazy carrot on stick kids and i got a job, wife and 2 children gamers

4.) Games like Vanguard the only game which gives old school feeling these days somethign missing from games like GW2.

I can go on but isn't that what OP is trying to say but in different words? 

Meaningless ultra long grinds+forced grouping isnt depth. And thats all that "old school" games had. Yes i played them, i just dont wear rose colored glasses.

The only game i would charcterize with "deep" is EvE atm.

Originally posted by mikahr

Meaningless ultra long grinds arent depth. And thats all that "old school" games had. Yes i played them, i just dont wear rose colored glasses.

I am just playing the devils advocate here i honestly belong to neither camp. because i am casual as well as hardcore gamer based on how much free time i can spare for gaming. However i do hate double standards.

Saying that modern MMOS cater to casuals and have very less depth, even go on to call them 'punks' and then if someone dares question GW2's depth the same guy jumps on him  forgetting that in past that is all he has been doing ..complaining about modern MMOS being 'shallow'.

Originally posted by Doogiehowser

I am just playing the devils advocate here i honestly belong to neither camp. because i am casual as well as hardcore gamer based on how much free time i can spare for gaming. However i do hate double standards.

Saying that modern MMOS cater to casuals and have very less depth, even go on to call them 'punks' and then if someone dares question GW2's depth the same guy jumps on him  forgetting that in past that is all he has been doing ..complaining about modern MMOS being 'shallow'.

I didnt find any staggering complexity in those games.

MMOers have a tendency to proclaim "taking long time" as "complex" or "hard"

Going to max level in those games wasnt hard or coplex, it was just freaking long and ultra boring from todays perspective and had an added annoyance of needing 5-ish other people to do anything. Thats why those arent produced any more because they wouldnt survive a year in the market.

Originally posted by mikahr

Originally posted by Gaia_Hunte

 

Arenanet has between 250 and 300 employees now.

 

They are over 300 emplayees now ;)

https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/forum/game/bltc/What-to-buy-with-800-gems/first#post1218058

Originally posted by maskedweasel

GW2 does have gems, but again, we don't know how that plays out in comparison, when you look at revenue.

EA lays off tons of people in different studios everywhere,   NCSoft does just as much, which Arenanet is a part of.  NCSoft will choose what studio needs to layoff who as they have done in previous years. 

Except ANet just hired more people last week.

FUN FACT:   Bioware was hiring for Austin (ie. SW:TOR development) until ***DAYS*** before the layoffs.  The studio saying "hey we need a few more artists", and some HR person approving that, is VERY VERY different from the CFO of NCsoft or whatever, having looked at the spreadsheets in a few months, saying that he wants the studio cut by a third.

Originally posted by mikahr

Originally posted by Doogiehowser

I am just playing the devils advocate here i honestly belong to neither camp. because i am casual as well as hardcore gamer based on how much free time i can spare for gaming. However i do hate double standards.

Saying that modern MMOS cater to casuals and have very less depth, even go on to call them 'punks' and then if someone dares question GW2's depth the same guy jumps on him  forgetting that in past that is all he has been doing ..complaining about modern MMOS being 'shallow'.

I didnt find any staggering complexity in those games.

MMOers have a tendency to proclaim "taking long time" as "complex" or "hard"

Going to max level in those games wasnt hard or coplex, it was just freaking long and ultra boring from todays perspective and had an added annoyance of needing 5-ish other people to do anything. Thats why those arent produced any more because they wouldnt survive a year in the market.

GW2 isn't deep because the loot, customization, rewards are SO simple.  I'm not on edge during a story bossfight because I KNOW the boss isn't going to drop any cool gear, because hey, I don't have 50,000 tokens or a trillion karma or whatever, because gear has to be bought from the vendor. 

I know that when I level up I won't get that awesome ability, because HEY I'm level 35 and, as long as I want to play this general build, I'm using the same skills for the rest of the time i ever play this character.

I know that when I finish that challenging dungeon with my friends, I won't be able to go out into the world and FEEL more powerful, killing mobs with ease, because endgame gear doesn't give you much advantage in the open world and zones scale to your level anyway, so you never feel truly powerful.  

The game has some of the best PvP I have experienced in years far as mmos go.

It is also one of the worst games I have ever seen from a PvE perspective. All relates to what you yearn for I suppose.

Originally posted by Doogiehowser

Originally posted by Torgrim

 

I know you feel quite proud of yourself and though hahaha got him when you posted this with my quotes.

The word shallow means absolute nothing if you can't explain what is is that makes it shallow.

I really don't know why you thought you were smart by making those quotes about me liking GW2, as also quoted I have a sub running in Vanguard for my oldschool fix and I play GW2 because I find that form of gameplay refreshing and I find the dungeons challengeing and I like the WvW PvP so my quotes somehow in your troll mind should answer my question why he feels GW2 is shallow

 i simply quoted you to answer your own predicament regarding how GW2 is not shallow. But your quots do make for very interesting read . But if we go by dictionary meaning shallow means somethign which lacks depth.

Granted it will vary from person to person but keeping your other posts in mind and your rant about modern games being easy and lackign depth i was hoping you would understand his post better and what he meant when he said 'GW2 is shallow'.

You mentioned that games after 2000 to 2012 and you can clearly see the games have gone from difficult and challenging to fast food industry gameplay with little brain activity needed to be able to play.

Your words not mine. Then you talk about lazy gamers who want everythign handed to them on silver platter. Who and which demographics do you think GW2 devs were aiming for? yes people with jobs, wives and kids who can hop in and out of the game on their own terms.

Why do game developers listen to these punks who want everything served on a golden platter with little effort needed and in the same time these people will leave after the first month anyway to scourge the forums for the next big hit.

Since when did the lazy carrot on a stick kids and I got a job,a wife and 2 children gamers have more power than the average gamer?

Again your words not mine. So yes actually you have already answered OP's question in past i just believe you have a very bi polar thing going on here. But to make it easier i will list the reasons based on your own posts.

1;) Fast food industry gameplay with little brain activity needed.  (Check)

2;) Focusing on players who want everything served to them on silver platter. (Check)

3;) Catering to lazy carrot on stick kids and i got a job, wife and 2 children gamers. (Check)

4.) Games like Vanguard the only game which gives old school feeling these days somethign missing from games like GW2. (Check)

I can go on but isn't that what OP is trying to say but in different words? if this doesn't scream shallow than what does?

No I still haven't  answerd my own question and I STILL WANT A ANSWER FROM HIM not you and YOUR opinions.

So I really don't care what you have to say and how you feel and how you think the word shallow apply to GW2.

So with your logic I should wait, what to 2050 so I can play a game that YOU aprove?