Originally posted by joshbaby03

Originally posted by Warley

Originally posted by joshbaby03

Hey, I finally am checking up on this thread...read a few pages...lots of trolls, fanboys, and some legit understanding people.

To update and explain better...I went through AV Customer Support and requested a refund on the grounds of being misled about game features and the actual progress toward an actual release.  I recieved a response that said basically a refund would not be issued under any circumstance and that the game had not released yet, so it was a moot point.  After that they did not respond to anymore emails.  I then took it up with paypal to get my money back, within 2 hours of doing so my account had been banned as displayed in the original tinypic I uploaded.  I requested my refund on Friday night last week, early Saturday morning...till now, I still have no refund...I also am still banned.

I did not expect to play beta for free, I did not expect to continue playing after my money was returned.  They actually disputed to PayPal that I should not be eligible for a refund, they are fighting it..that is why it hasn't been finished yet I assume.  This company needs my 15 dollars, I guess Greece is in more dire straits than we know.  Anyway, just wanted to let ya'll know whats up.

No Refund Yet, Still Banned,

Jed

Jed,

When you agreed to the pre-order you agreed to purchase the game along with a months free time that came with the bonus of being in beta.  You also agreed to no refunds.  Plus, you're claiming the game doesn't feature all the things you thought it would, but you're basing this opinion on a beta, not a launched game.  You agreed to a no refund.  You're not honoring your part of the agreement.  If I was Aventurine I'd dispute this as well.

I would agree with you totallly if I had not been led to believe this game was nearing an actual release.  Tasos led many people to believe this product was "GOLD" around 12/12/12...and when preorders came up on the 14th being a fan of the original before all the hacks/exploits/macros took over I jumped on board.  I was unable to even log in or try the beta till nearly the 20th of December.  The beta was not available for much of the holidays till after the new year, the game was in a sad state of affairs to say the least, more than 40% of promised launch features were missing.  Not to mention many game breaking bugs that had not been resolved since I was banned last Saturday morning.  I have learned that supposedly they fixed the main bug plaguing the beta just recently, but still more than 40% of the game is still AWOL...and I don't forsee a release within the next month, possibly even longer.

And, like all other games they had a targeted release date, but missed that date due to various bugs.  This is 'common' for all MMORPG's.  In fact, some MMORPG's were released 'absolutely broken' and in far worse shape than Darkfall is right now in beta.  For someone that spouted out a half-rant about Aventurine and coding, XML database (???), and so forth you sure have very little understanding of software development; especially software as big and challenging as MMORPGs.  Tasos may have had a deadline of 12/12/12 or his investors/backers may have looked at pulling the plug.  Who knows?  However, I'd rather see a solid game that gets the bugged squashed through a beta than a half-assed, bug ridden game that is 'released'.

Again, and you seem to forget, that ultimately they decided to go with a beta instead of gold release on 12/12/12.  They had issues getting things to go on a larger scale, but resolved those issues.  Just because everything wasn't instant just like you want your refund to be doesn't mean that they weren't making progress and fulfilling their obligations to you with your pre-order.  You agreed to a no-refund.  It's highly unethical to use a 'cheat' around your agreement.

I played maybe 6 hours total of beta, and from that 6 hours I took away a few things.  Aventurine/Tasos will say anything to make a quick buck.  Aventurine still doesn't know the difference between C++ and VB, or how to operate an XML Database.  The community is still full of hacking/macroing/exploiting/duping scum.  I don't want any part of this at release...so I just wanna get my vested interest back and go find a reputable vendor.

Six hours for an MMORPG like Darkfall? Wow... You truly are impatient aren't you? No wonder you came running here after your little loophole to get a refund when you agreed to a no-refund was taking longer than you wanted it to.  Six hours?!  This isn't a FPS by EA or Activision.  How did you manage to explore the world? Build advanced stuff? Fight stronger monsters?  All within 6 hours?

Jed

Heh, 6 hours...not by my choice totally, the fact that the servers were always down or the persistance bug prevented any sort of progression...there are no "harder" mobs...they are missing, that's part of the 40% of the content missing issue.  One of the times, before a wipe I actually found a chaos chest with 10k gold so I made my own clan, used my clan bank for storage, next morning it was wiped...so eh, whatever.  I suggest MMORPG.com change est rel to Q2, cause honestly if it releases anytime before that...it's going to be nothing but a headache to play..err I mean test.  Tell me Tasos, you'll do it live..right?  =)

Jed

Originally posted by Warley

Originally posted by joshbaby03

Hey, I finally am checking up on this thread...read a few pages...lots of trolls, fanboys, and some legit understanding people.

To update and explain better...I went through AV Customer Support and requested a refund on the grounds of being misled about game features and the actual progress toward an actual release.  I recieved a response that said basically a refund would not be issued under any circumstance and that the game had not released yet, so it was a moot point.  After that they did not respond to anymore emails.  I then took it up with paypal to get my money back, within 2 hours of doing so my account had been banned as displayed in the original tinypic I uploaded.  I requested my refund on Friday night last week, early Saturday morning...till now, I still have no refund...I also am still banned.

I did not expect to play beta for free, I did not expect to continue playing after my money was returned.  They actually disputed to PayPal that I should not be eligible for a refund, they are fighting it..that is why it hasn't been finished yet I assume.  This company needs my 15 dollars, I guess Greece is in more dire straits than we know.  Anyway, just wanted to let ya'll know whats up.

No Refund Yet, Still Banned,

Jed

Jed,

When you agreed to the pre-order you agreed to purchase the game along with a months free time that came with the bonus of being in beta.  You also agreed to no refunds.  Plus, you're claiming the game doesn't feature all the things you thought it would, but you're basing this opinion on a beta, not a launched game.  You agreed to a no refund.  You're not honoring your part of the agreement.  If I was Aventurine I'd dispute this as well.

It's interesting how extremely few times I've seen pre-orders be denied cancelling.  It seems quite normal with games for a pre-order to be cancelled and deposit returned before release.  Guild Wars 2 had two options, one with no refunds, and a usual pre-order if you weren't sure.  Aventurine just has a pre-order.  Of the few times I've seen game companies deny pre-order cancellations, they've turned out to be massive wastes of money.  Either poor management, horribly buggy game, missing features, or in Aventurine's case, all of the above.

If a company won't let you cancel a pre-order before there even is a release date announced, it's best to stay far away.

Originally posted by kadepsyson

Originally posted by Warley

Originally posted by joshbaby03

Hey, I finally am checking up on this thread...read a few pages...lots of trolls, fanboys, and some legit understanding people.

To update and explain better...I went through AV Customer Support and requested a refund on the grounds of being misled about game features and the actual progress toward an actual release.  I recieved a response that said basically a refund would not be issued under any circumstance and that the game had not released yet, so it was a moot point.  After that they did not respond to anymore emails.  I then took it up with paypal to get my money back, within 2 hours of doing so my account had been banned as displayed in the original tinypic I uploaded.  I requested my refund on Friday night last week, early Saturday morning...till now, I still have no refund...I also am still banned.

I did not expect to play beta for free, I did not expect to continue playing after my money was returned.  They actually disputed to PayPal that I should not be eligible for a refund, they are fighting it..that is why it hasn't been finished yet I assume.  This company needs my 15 dollars, I guess Greece is in more dire straits than we know.  Anyway, just wanted to let ya'll know whats up.

No Refund Yet, Still Banned,

Jed

Jed,

When you agreed to the pre-order you agreed to purchase the game along with a months free time that came with the bonus of being in beta.  You also agreed to no refunds.  Plus, you're claiming the game doesn't feature all the things you thought it would, but you're basing this opinion on a beta, not a launched game.  You agreed to a no refund.  You're not honoring your part of the agreement.  If I was Aventurine I'd dispute this as well.

It's interesting how extremely few times I've seen pre-orders be denied cancelling.  It seems quite normal with games for a pre-order to be cancelled and deposit returned before release.  Guild Wars 2 had two options, one with no refunds, and a usual pre-order if you weren't sure.  Aventurine just has a pre-order. 

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/5512403#5512403

Originally posted by SupportPlayerMM
Threads like this is setting common sense back 900 years. When you request a refund... you're saying this individual "AV" commited fruad and frabricated fictional details of their product "That is still being worked on I might add and is not the complete product" and they in response to you calling them a fruadulent company is to ban you. How does this not make sense? How is this even arguable in the least? If a customer goes into a store claiming fruad making a company look bad a company will most likely ask that person not to return. Way the world logically works.

No, they will silence the disgruntled customer if they are clever.

Originally posted by SupportPlayerMM
Threads like this is setting common sense back 900 years. When you request a refund... you're saying this individual "AV" commited fruad and frabricated fictional details of their product "That is still being worked on I might add and is not the complete product" and they in response to you calling them a fruadulent company is to ban you. How does this not make sense? How is this even arguable in the least? If a customer goes into a store claiming fruad making a company look bad a company will most likely ask that person not to return. Way the world logically works.

Weird, I was able to cancel pre-orders at Best Buy for MMOs and not only did they give me the money back, but I was not told I couldn't shop at their store ever again.  There was no claim of fraud.

I wonder what people would say if they tried to return a product to Best Buy and were told that no returns were being accepted and that they were no longer allowed to shop at Best Buy ever again.

I just posted what WabbaWay said.. lol So I deleted what I had posted

OP READ THE FINE PRINT

Originally posted by WabbaWay

What is a charge-back or dispute?

Article

A charge-back or dispute is a payment that has gone through all the correct channels and has been paid to Avenurine S.A.. 

 

In turn, Aventurine has awarded your account, the agreed length of play-time for the paid subscription or completed the requested service.  If you have made a charge-back with your credit card company or initiated a Paypal dispute (on purpose or by mistake) for any product or service you have received from Aventurine, your account will be permanently banned and will remain so until the charge-back or dispute has been cancelled.  Aventurine considers credit card charge-backs and Paypal disputes to be fraud, if you have made no reasonable effort to work with us to resolve any problems with your purchase.

 

 

Comes directly from their site. Next time read before you take action.

/thread

Yep, that shows Aventurine to be fraudsters then.

After all in what you quoted it clearly says you'd have to receive the product.  The product in this case is not only not out, but does not even have a release date.

He also did not receive subscription time (obviously), and the requested service is CLEARLY nowhere near complete :D

It also says at the end about reasonable effort to work with them, which the OP attempted but they denied and then ignored him.

So yeah, good job proving the wrong point :D

edit: minor typo

no offence ment to the OP but i dont get people like that....those are the first to post things like "just take my money now" but when the game does not turn out what they expected then they do want their money back.....make up your freaking mind, you support the product you choose or you dont...

Otherwise maybe they need to wait and see what the actual product is like b4 you buy an unfinished product next time OK?

Originally posted by kadepsyson

Originally posted by WabbaWay

What is a charge-back or dispute?

Article

A charge-back or dispute is a payment that has gone through all the correct channels and has been paid to Avenurine S.A.. 

 

In turn, Aventurine has awarded your account, the agreed length of play-time for the paid subscription or completed the requested service.  If you have made a charge-back with your credit card company or initiated a Paypal dispute (on purpose or by mistake) for any product or service you have received from Aventurine, your account will be permanently banned and will remain so until the charge-back or dispute has been cancelled.  Aventurine considers credit card charge-backs and Paypal disputes to be fraud, if you have made no reasonable effort to work with us to resolve any problems with your purchase.

 

 

Comes directly from their site. Next time read before you take action.

/thread

Yep, that shows Aventurine to be fraudsters then.

After all in what you quoted it clearly says you'd have to receive the product.  The product in this case is not only not out, but does not even have a release date.

He also did not receive subscription time (obviously), and the requested service is CLEARLY nowhere near complete :D

It also says at the end about reasonable effort to work with them, which the OP attempted but they denied and then ignored him.

So yeah, good job proving the wrong point :D

 

edit: minor typo

they specifically write that if you cancel your PayPay payment without having tried the customer service you'll get a perma ban and you can't do shit about it.

Originally posted by WabbaWay

Originally posted by kadepsyson

Originally posted by WabbaWay

What is a charge-back or dispute?

Article

A charge-back or dispute is a payment that has gone through all the correct channels and has been paid to Avenurine S.A.. 

 

In turn, Aventurine has awarded your account, the agreed length of play-time for the paid subscription or completed the requested service.  If you have made a charge-back with your credit card company or initiated a Paypal dispute (on purpose or by mistake) for any product or service you have received from Aventurine, your account will be permanently banned and will remain so until the charge-back or dispute has been cancelled.  Aventurine considers credit card charge-backs and Paypal disputes to be fraud, if you have made no reasonable effort to work with us to resolve any problems with your purchase.

 

 

Comes directly from their site. Next time read before you take action.

/thread

Yep, that shows Aventurine to be fraudsters then.

After all in what you quoted it clearly says you'd have to receive the product.  The product in this case is not only not out, but does not even have a release date.

He also did not receive subscription time (obviously), and the requested service is CLEARLY nowhere near complete :D

It also says at the end about reasonable effort to work with them, which the OP attempted but they denied and then ignored him.

So yeah, good job proving the wrong point :D

 

edit: minor typo

they specifically write that if you cancel your PayPay payment without having tried the customer service you'll get a perma ban and you can't do shit about it.

yeah idd, sounds like he just wanted to play for free, trying to scam the company with a fake payment.

Originally posted by WabbaWay

they specifically write that if you cancel your PayPay payment without having tried the customer service you'll get a perma ban and you can't do shit about it.

Yeah, though the OP did try their customer service :(

---------------

For contrast, when the MMO Glitch closed down, it could have just shut the server off and been done with it.  Instead they not only automatically issued refunds for purchases in the previous 50 days, but also offered customers a choice.  They could have their purchases from the past YEAR refunded in full to the customer, they could donate the same amount to charity, or they could choose to let the developer keep the proceeds.  This goes far beyond "doing the right thing".

At the other end of the spectrum there is Aventurine which won't allow you to cancel a pre-order to get any of your money back, and gives you only one choice - permaban.

I just feel that Aventurine could do with a little positive customer relations.  Places like Best Buy offer refunds for purchased, opened, used products and return the money.  They do this at a loss, but know that keeping customers happy and returning is good business sense.

Doesn't Aventurine want future customers?  Doesn't Aventurine want a future?

Originally posted by kadepsyson

Originally posted by WabbaWay

 

Yeah, though the OP did try their customer service :(

---------------

For contrast, when the MMO Glitch closed down, it could have just shut the server off and been done with it.  Instead they not only automatically issued refunds for purchases in the previous 50 days, but also offered customers a choice.  They could have their purchases from the past YEAR refunded in full to the customer, they could donate the same amount to charity, or they could choose to let the developer keep the proceeds.  This goes far beyond "doing the right thing".

At the other end of the spectrum there is Aventurine which won't allow you to cancel a pre-order to get any of your money back, and gives you only one choice - permaban.

 

I just feel that Aventurine could do with a little positive customer relations.  Places like Best Buy offer refunds for purchased, opened, used products and return the money.  They do this at a loss, but know that keeping customers happy and returning is good business sense.

 

Doesn't Aventurine want future customers?  Doesn't Aventurine want a future?

If and only if the guy never gets his money back, then he may have a point to grumble. But as it stands he is looking to recoup all of his money and essentially have gained a load of free game time which should by rights, require you to pay for. It is more than fair and more than right, that his account is banned whilst his refund is resolved. He has declared that he is not interested in the paid for beta and wants all of his money back. As such he should not be given any additional free access whilst his claim is resolved.

Perhaps AV are crap/slow at getting him his refund back ASAP, but they are completely right to instantly ban the account as soon as he put the request in, whether he did so via AV directly, or via a third party.

Should the refund process have been faster/made easier... perhaps.

Should he be banned from accessing the game after putting in a refund request... yes ofc, it is amazing that anyone would think otherwise. "Hurr give him more free time!!!", er no.

Originally posted by Cetra
I also got perma banned and unsuccessful with the refund. Lost both $ and game. AV is a scam company. Cant wait to see darkfall fail hard. It will.

And still you pay upfront for a game that is not even finished.......b**** plz.

Originally posted by bunnyhopper

Originally posted by kadepsyson

Originally posted by WabbaWay

 

Yeah, though the OP did try their customer service :(

---------------

For contrast, when the MMO Glitch closed down, it could have just shut the server off and been done with it.  Instead they not only automatically issued refunds for purchases in the previous 50 days, but also offered customers a choice.  They could have their purchases from the past YEAR refunded in full to the customer, they could donate the same amount to charity, or they could choose to let the developer keep the proceeds.  This goes far beyond "doing the right thing".

At the other end of the spectrum there is Aventurine which won't allow you to cancel a pre-order to get any of your money back, and gives you only one choice - permaban.

 

I just feel that Aventurine could do with a little positive customer relations.  Places like Best Buy offer refunds for purchased, opened, used products and return the money.  They do this at a loss, but know that keeping customers happy and returning is good business sense.

 

Doesn't Aventurine want future customers?  Doesn't Aventurine want a future?

You do realise ofc that there is a fucking huge difference between a game which closes down and offers refunds to players who are long time paying customers and someone who pays money explictly to take advantage of a pre launch access, only to have a boo about being banned when he has asked for his money back which is required for that pre launch access?

 

If and only if the guy never gets his money back, then he may have a point to grumble. But as it stands he is looking to recoup all of his money and essentially have gained a load of free game time which should by rights, require you to pay for. It is more than fair and more than right, that his account is banned whilst his refund is resolved. He has declared that he is not interested in the paid for beta and wants all of his money back. As such he should not be given any additional free access whilst his claim is resolved.

 

Perhaps AV are crap/slow at getting him his refund back ASAP, but they are completely right to instantly ban the account as soon as he put the request in, whether he did so via AV directly, or via a third party.

 

Should the refund process have been faster/made easier... perhaps.

Should he be banned from accessing the game after putting in a refund request... yes ofc, it is amazing that anyone would think otherwise. "Hurr give him more free time!!!", er no.

So why wouldn't AV make it so he couldn't play on his account, but was able to play again later provided he paid them?  Especially if they were the ones processing the refund?  It isn't wanting to play for free, it's wanting to play any AV product in the future but being unable to due to a permanent ban.

I never meant people should not pay and get free access.  Not sure why you said that at all to be honest.  It's quite different to stop allowing access because they are giving him his refund, and to hear he wants a refund, deny giving money back, and make it so he can never ever access the game again.