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News & Features Discussion  » [Editorial] Star Wars: The Old Republic: Give BioWare a Break

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145 posts found
  jtcgs

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/28/04
Posts: 1843

1/17/13 1:28:12 PM#121

Whats with this sudden attempt to force PC (political correctness) on the MMO community? I see no reason to even have a forum if it does not allow people to post their negative views...and the very idea that ANY NEGATIVE comment is being disrespectful and trolling is just plain redonkulous.

P.S. No, I will not give Bioware a break. They made a bad product, they lied continually throughout beta about what their product was going to be...and consumers should call them out on it. Its our right to do so, and I dont mean rights by law, I mean rights by the fact we are consumers and they are a business. Consumers drive all markets, stop making people believe they dont.

“I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson

  kevjards

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/27/10
Posts: 1443

1/17/13 1:28:13 PM#122
Originally posted by mnemic666
Originally posted by kevjards

well that was my point..keep controversy out of the game by not bringing it in ,in the first place..that way you avoid all that stuff.the idea behind playing rpg's or any game is to get away from all this crap.see my point is this that we are both divided in the way we think..if you dont put that stuff in game in the first place there is no divide.i do understand what you mean but what happens in RL should really not appear in a game..hence fantasy..its to take you away from the RL issues.

 

What happens IRL appears in fantasy games all the time. It's a ROLE playing game, so I would imagine that a full role playing game would allow you to fill the role you wanted.If it's going to support romance, it would be remiss not to support both heterosexual and homosexual romances if it wants to stay true to its name.

 

Again, if we're going to avoid controversy, by your logic we shouldn't have any violent first or third person shooters. They're causing quite a stir now, so they should be removed.

rpg's and other games have got along fine without this.and have done so.to me this is just a gimmick by bioware to do exactly what we are doing now.i totally disagree with this stuff being in game because of the reasons i have stated..i cannot change that.has for the bit you mentioned on fps games.its my opinion it has nothing to do with what happens in RL.

if people think its ok to live their life the way a first person shooter is played they have to be seriously unstable in the first place.

  cronius77

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/26/12
Posts: 1282

1/17/13 1:28:37 PM#123

seriously with all due respect to the OP here giving this story any coverage shows just how much this site is in it for the money and nothing more. Do you seriously think same sex relationships warrents talk like its some grand expansion? Ever think maybe we hate bioware and EA because they continue to take shortcuts and develop a game that just plain out sucks? Maybe we just hate them for the fact they charge people for petty things like action bars and dungeons and pvp games... I do not understand why we should give them a break because they bring in lesbian and gay garbage into a video game instead of putting more meaningful content into the game.

Also Im a liberal and have no issue with gay or lesbians but im sorry people crying about putting them into a video game means you need to go play the sims and not star wars because its a pathetic cause to push into a video game. If it bothers you that much not to be able to flirt and romance same sex relationships in a video game you need to stop playing video games.

This is just a flame topic created by the site staff here , nothing good is going to come of this conversation because you have religion and science all fighting in the same topic and already there is insults here to people who do not believe the same as others do . This garbage has no place in video games and especially on video game sites. Especially a star wars family game , its bad enough you have toons running around mostly naked now but we already know the slimeballs at bioware will do anything to make a dollar .

  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10396

I've become dependent upon spell check. My apologies for stupid grammatical errors.

1/17/13 1:30:07 PM#124


Originally posted by mnemic666

Originally posted by Aeonblades So what happens when I'm an atheist and still believe humans are beyond animals? The world came crashing down :)  
You're free to believe that humans are superior animals that have broken free of their basic instincts (for the most part), I think most people would agree that humans have trancended natural animals as we've moved away from our natural state.

 

But to say humans are not animals at all is false. We are animals, just highly evolved animals that have broken away from what is natural.




Even saying we've broken away from our natural behavior isn't true. Many of the same things are driving our behaviors in our brains that drove them fifty to a hundred thousand years ago. That doesn't mean we haven't made a lot of progress, and aren't intellectually superior to every other animal on the planet. It just means we have a lot of useless, vestigial behaviors.

For every large, complex problem, there is a simple, clear solution that also happens to be absolutely wrong.

  SlothnChunk

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/17/11
Posts: 440

1/17/13 1:30:42 PM#125
Originally posted by Kaynos1972
What does sexual orientation has to do with a game anyway ?  Can you keep that kind of stuff outside of gaming.

Agreed. Shouldn't be in games in the first place.

  Thorkune

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 9/28/06
Posts: 1779

Dyslexics of the world...UNTIE!

1/17/13 1:32:55 PM#126
Originally posted by mnemic666
Originally posted by bigsmiff

Translation: "If you don't agree with my way of thinking, you are wrong"

 

No, facts are a thing. They exist. You are either wrong, or right about a fact. The fact doesn't give a fuck if you agree with it or not, it will continue to exist. Here's an example:

 

Fact: The earth revolves around the sun.

 

That's currently a fact you can't dispute. You're free to believe that the sun revolves around the earth, but you are wrong. It has nothing to do with whether I agree with you are not, the fact is that you are incorrect in your belief and we can prove that you are incorrect. The same applies to humans being animals.

 

I am finished with this topic. I have a good "trouble free" streak on this site right now and I don't want to mess it up.

  mnemic666

Novice Member

Joined: 12/23/10
Posts: 91

1/17/13 1:32:58 PM#127
Originally posted by SlothnChunk
Originally posted by Kaynos1972
What does sexual orientation has to do with a game anyway ?  Can you keep that kind of stuff outside of gaming.

Agreed. Shouldn't be in games in the first place.

 

So then they should remove all romances from the game. If sexual orientation has nothing to do for the game, don't make it a gameplay option at all.

  orsonstfu

Novice Member

Joined: 2/12/08
Posts: 205

1/17/13 1:34:28 PM#128

So then they should remove all romances from the game. If sexual orientation has nothing to do for the game, don't make it a gameplay option at all.

Know what else is a fact. Social Norms.

  BadOrb

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/11/13
Posts: 718

1/17/13 1:35:07 PM#129
Originally posted by superniceguy
Originally posted by BadOrb

Try the game yourself if you haven't make up your own mind about it and don't act like sheep for gods sake. It's $4.99 for 4 action bars , 6 character slots and you can play the whole game all the way through , that's a bargain.

End of long post.

Cheers,

BadOrb. 

 

I would say that STO is better value than SWTOR as F2P games, and even paying $15 across multiple accounts in SWG with its insane boatload of fetaures is better value than SWTOR as F2P.

STO is more free than SWTOR, and gives you plenty of non-restricted access to the game without paying a penny, that sucks you deeper into the game, that when you get so far you feel that spending money is more worth it.

Makeb has been banging about since June 2012, and SGR since Sep 2011. Since about June 2012, STO had Season 6 put in, then Season 7 announced and is now in. This month they have announced Season 8 coming soon, probably in by the time Makeb is, and Season 9 also coming later in the year, yet SWTOR is still going on about content done and announced between Sep 2011 and June 2012.

SWG had its faults, but they kept constant updates coming, and you knew more was to come, and it had 3 full blown expansions, not a mini expansion. LA only gave up on SWG in 2006, over 2 years after launch, EA/BW have given up on SWTOR already. SOE still did plenty for SWG after 2005 too.

Also with EA saying they need $7.5 million per month (500K subs) to break even it seems they are only adding in content already written, and with F2P it is not generating enough income for them to break even, and looks like it may shut down by the end of the year. It may not shut down and live for years, but that is not the impression they are giving, and they say they "intend on pursuing more SGR options in the future" and not "will pursue more SGR options in the future" making it sound they know that it may probably not happen. I assume it all depends on the success of the game and if it grows, but if it is not going good, then there is a strong chance they will either not have enough money from subs and F2P to make it happen, or the game may get shut down, plus there is the licence which makes things more rocky.

The game is still good to play, and even if it only lasts the rest of this year, that is plenty time to get the most out of it.

I will only give Bioware a break when EA/BW start progressing the game in leaps and bounds like other MMOs, which is an indication of the game doing good (although that still did not stop SWG and CoH from shutting down) and what STO and SWG got, as I do think that SWTOR is a better game than STO, but BW/EA are just letting it rot.

I never tried STO , I have only heard that the space battles are great and that there are ships to buy for real money on their version of the Cartel Market and yes I know some elements of SWTOR are getting very close to the P2W model. I hope it doesn't cross the line.

You are correct about the fact they had written and maybe even finished ( or near enough ) a lot of content around June 2012 and that they kept it back for when they rolled out the freemium model. So even the new ilum and Makeb patches/expansion are old and what i am waiting for is what they will do after Makeb. Have they stopped making new content or are they still making new things we haven't even heard about. So from the end of spring to the ned of the year will answer the question , i hope.

The subs being 500 k for breaking even went out the window a few months back. They are now getting money from the Cartel Market and subs ( plus preferred ). So I'm not sure we are everlikely to actually know if they are making money or even broke even , which is a shame.

As for the SGR in Makeb well it is only a case of getting a female actor and male actor to say the same thing. Like in the class missions , female or male characters that we play have the same dialogue ( mostly ) appart from flirt options. So in actual fact it was probably easier to program and record these new parts. Honestly though people it won't be forced upon you and is only going to happen if you hit the flirt option in convos. It hasn't taken up much time and no recent time , or resouces at all.

finally I was suprised you said you thought SWTOR is in fact better than STO though. Let's hope they can stop the rot as it where and get it back on track. One final thing i don't find good is that there are no class stories going to be in Makeb , let's hope that doesn't mean what I think it does , I do want the class stories to continue after makeb.

Cheers,

BadOrb.

PSO 4 years , EQOA 4 months , PSU 7 years , SWTOR launch ongoing.
"SWG was not fun. Let it go buddy." quote from iiNoSkillzii 10/18/13
The original propoganda pixie dust villain :[]

  mnemic666

Novice Member

Joined: 12/23/10
Posts: 91

1/17/13 1:37:39 PM#130
Originally posted by orsonstfu

So then they should remove all romances from the game. If sexual orientation has nothing to do for the game, don't make it a gameplay option at all.

Know what else is a fact. Social Norms.

 

And social norms are bullshit, as they change over time and evolve. If there were games promoting segregation, they would have been embraced as a social norm in the 50's, but we'd look at it today as a quaint reminder of how bigoted and unenlightened older generations were.

  SlothnChunk

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/17/11
Posts: 440

1/17/13 1:38:20 PM#131
Originally posted by mnemic666
Originally posted by SlothnChunk
Originally posted by Kaynos1972
What does sexual orientation has to do with a game anyway ?  Can you keep that kind of stuff outside of gaming.

Agreed. Shouldn't be in games in the first place.

 

So then they should remove all romances from the game. If sexual orientation has nothing to do for the game, don't make it a gameplay option at all.

Sexual orientation enters different territory which shouldn't be in games.

  mnemic666

Novice Member

Joined: 12/23/10
Posts: 91

1/17/13 1:39:45 PM#132
Originally posted by SlothnChunk
Originally posted by mnemic666

So then they should remove all romances from the game. If sexual orientation has nothing to do for the game, don't make it a gameplay option at all.

Sexual orientation enters different territory which shouldn't be in games.

 

Then don't put hetero romances in the game either.

 

And why is sexual orientation any different territory than slavery and torture, two other elements that exist within SWTOR already? I fail to see how homosexual relations are in any way worse than a game which allows you to keep and abuse a slave, and torture others.

  SlothnChunk

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/17/11
Posts: 440

1/17/13 1:41:48 PM#133
Originally posted by mnemic666
Originally posted by SlothnChunk
Originally posted by mnemic666

So then they should remove all romances from the game. If sexual orientation has nothing to do for the game, don't make it a gameplay option at all.

Sexual orientation enters different territory which shouldn't be in games.

 

Then don't put hetero romances in the game either.

 

And why is sexual orientation any different territory than slavery and torture, two other elements that exist within SWTOR already? I fail to see how homosexual relations are in any way worse than a game which allows you to keep and abuse a slave, and torture others.

When developers start adding in sexual orientation that's when I stop playing. A game like SWTOR has so many problems and not a single developer should be working on that crap.

  orsonstfu

Novice Member

Joined: 2/12/08
Posts: 205

1/17/13 1:42:18 PM#134

And social norms are bullshit, as they change over time and evolve. If there were games promoting segregation, they would have been embraced as a social norm in the 50's, but we'd look at it today as a quaint reminder of how bigoted and unenlightened older generations were.

Doesn't change anything about them being fact. Fluid sure but aren't all things. Social Norms are a fact, no a particularly pretty fact but a fact nonetheless. Also SWTOR wasn't released in the 50's and sure people from the future may look back and think that the current social norms are or were draconian - but that doesn't change anything about them being facts. Which they are, just not facts you agree with so you use a straw man argument to try and hold your ground which makes you come off as arrogant and blind.

 

On a fun note: About that that bar joke.

An evolutionist, A caveman, and a creationist walk into a bar. Bar tender asks what'll it be: Caveman says 2 beers and a bottle of whine.

  ragz45

Novice Member

Joined: 5/01/08
Posts: 481

1/17/13 1:43:20 PM#135
All of the design decisions I have seen bioware make (in any game), since EA bought them out, give me zero reason to give them a break.  EA took a highly sucessful studio and ran it into the ground.  Just as they do with every studio they buy out.  I will never give EA/Bioware a break, given that they don't deserve one.

  mnemic666

Novice Member

Joined: 12/23/10
Posts: 91

1/17/13 1:43:55 PM#136
Originally posted by SlothnChunk

When developers start adding in sexual orientation that's when I stop playing. A game like SWTOR has so many problems and not a single developer should be working on that crap.

 

The second sentance in your post is the most valid argument against this at the moment. It's nice to see them doing a bit of work on non-core gameplay features, but you're absolutely correct. The game has some significant issues and they should be laser focused on fixing and expanding the core gameplay elements before moving into expanding the non-core gameplay elements.

  Doogiehowser

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/14/12
Posts: 1939

1/17/13 1:47:24 PM#137
Originally posted by SlothnChunk
Originally posted by mnemic666
Originally posted by SlothnChunk
Originally posted by Kaynos1972
What does sexual orientation has to do with a game anyway ?  Can you keep that kind of stuff outside of gaming.

Agreed. Shouldn't be in games in the first place.

 

So then they should remove all romances from the game. If sexual orientation has nothing to do for the game, don't make it a gameplay option at all.

Sexual orientation enters different territory which shouldn't be in games.

I am glad you can speak on behalf of all of us on subject what should be and shouldn't be in game. Luckily, majority of us have evolved beyond subjects like 'sexual orientations'. People play sci fi games like SWTOR and still think like a cave man. Interesting.

"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell

"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney

  SlothnChunk

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/17/11
Posts: 440

1/17/13 1:50:33 PM#138
Originally posted by Doogiehowser
Originally posted by SlothnChunk
Originally posted by mnemic666
Originally posted by SlothnChunk
Originally posted by Kaynos1972
What does sexual orientation has to do with a game anyway ?  Can you keep that kind of stuff outside of gaming.

Agreed. Shouldn't be in games in the first place.

 

So then they should remove all romances from the game. If sexual orientation has nothing to do for the game, don't make it a gameplay option at all.

Sexual orientation enters different territory which shouldn't be in games.

I am glad you can speak on behalf of all of us on subject what should be and shouldn't be in game. Luckily, majority of us have evolved beyond subjects like 'sexual orientations'. People play sci fi games like SWTOR and still think like a cave man. Interesting.

I was only speaking for myself. And I vote with my credit card.

  jtcgs

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/28/04
Posts: 1843

1/17/13 1:53:51 PM#139
Originally posted by orsonstfu

Know what else is a fact. Social Norms.

What is this the 1950's? It used to be the social norm not to have sex before being married....for a woman to stay at home...slavery...in the 1920s if a woman showed her ankles or shoulders she was a whore because it wasnt socially acceptable...it used to be that if you listed to Rock'n'Roll you were thought of as a criminal/wild/deviant because it wasnt acceptable music.

It used to be the social norm to force a daughter to marry for money or power. It used to be the social norm to do everything the church tells you...so as not to be BURNED AT THE STAKE.

All I can say is, thank God for the 1960s that made, at least most of the world realize that the only thing NOT acceptable is "social norms" created to make us live the way someone ELSE thinks is appropriate.

“I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson

  superniceguy

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/17/07
Posts: 2251

NGE, LOTRO, STO, KOTOR, Lego Star Wars > NGE 2 (SWTOR). SWG>ALL. Above hopefully subject to change.

1/17/13 1:56:34 PM#140
Originally posted by BadOrb

The subs being 500 k for breaking even went out the window a few months back. They are now getting money from the Cartel Market and subs ( plus preferred ). So I'm not sure we are everlikely to actually know if they are making money or even broke even , which is a shame.

finally I was suprised you said you thought SWTOR is in fact better than STO though. Let's hope they can stop the rot as it where and get it back on track. One final thing i don't find good is that there are no class stories going to be in Makeb , let's hope that doesn't mean what I think it does , I do want the class stories to continue after makeb.

Cheers,

BadOrb.

After the F2P announcement they were unsure whether to make Makeb free to subscribers or not (before F2P it seems like they planned on it being free), but as the "expansion" was announced about 1 month after F2P, that is a sign that F2P is not bringing in enough revenue to match their 500k subs / $7.5 million per month. It seems like they waited to see the success of F2P before making their mind of of charging for Makeb or not. It could be a conicidence, but too many factors ring warning bells that the future is not very bright.

STO is still good for the space, but if SWTOR managed to expand space to be similar then I would probably not look at STO again. There are far many more bugs in STO than SWTOR, but the only reason why STO shines more than SWTOR to me, is that it is getting way more attention from the devs, and not just gets more content, but has a few more features too. Although they did release it with not much, but with that, they have moulded it to player feedback, whereas SWTOR is pretty much a more completed game at launch with not much room for advancement / extra features

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