Originally posted by Warband

Guild Wars 2 has sold over 3 million copies since its August

I have to admit, my initial reaction was.

"is that all?"

How many copies did SWTOR sell again? And that was sub game ...that still isn't doing that well. :-/

Originally posted by Teilo

Originally posted by Warband

Guild Wars 2 has sold over 3 million copies since its August

I have to admit, my initial reaction was.

"is that all?"

How many copies did SWTOR sell again? And that was sub game ...that still isn't doing that well. :-/

Swtor went f2p within a year. It's box sales and sub after after were obviously terrible. This game managed to sell and extra million well after launch in about 3-4 months. That's the distinct difference. One game continued to sell well after launch and probably will continue to sell and the other didn't.. Also considering swtor had star wars IP and the Bioware name recognition near it's peak as well as the massive marketing campaign it's not really comparable, it was also the largest budget mmo in existence and the strongest combined brand power to grace an mmo..

GW2 was however leagues better recieved than swtor was and post launch sales infer that, Considering the most a pc game has sold in that period of time is 6 million (released in far more territories than gw2 was and the biggest in pc game history), there's no way you can infer it so far as mediocre or bad.

Originally posted by Warband

Originally posted by Teilo

Originally posted by Warband

Guild Wars 2 has sold over 3 million copies since its August

I have to admit, my initial reaction was.

"is that all?"

How many copies did SWTOR sell again? And that was sub game ...that still isn't doing that well. :-/

Swtor went f2p within a year. It's box sales and sub after after were obviously terrible. This game managed to sell and extra million well after launch in about 3-4 months. That's the distinct difference. One game continued to sell well after launch and probably will continue to sell and the other didn't.. Also considering swtor had star wars IP and the Bioware name recognition near it's peak as well as the massive marketing campaign it's not really comparable, it was also the largest budget mmo in existence and the strongest combined brand power to grace an mmo..

GW2 was however leagues better recieved than swtor was and post launch sales infer that, Considering the most a pc game has sold in that period of time is 6 million (released in far more territories than gw2 was and the biggest in pc game history), there's no way you can infer it so far as mediocre or bad.

"Obviously terrible" is conjecture, as well as subscription numbers total, as nobody really has that information.  In comparison... GW2 went "F2P" after the initial box sale - hence its payment model.  Alternatively, we have no idea how the switch to F2P actually impacts SWTORs revenue... or their current playerbase.  This isn't an apples to apples situation... 

Many games have gone F2P, yet they are still active and generate revenue... how much revenue?  Who knows,  but "obviously" profitable for them to still be running.

Here's what it is.

Anet has found a message for a market.

A lot of boxes have been sold.  

There is still a significant number of people playing. 

What I don't understand is why hasn't the stock gone up.

What I don't know is cost of production, how is the cash shop doing. 

What I think is that the 5+ year production is more than what most orginally thought, and retention is lower than what was expected by the majority of the mmorpg community.

I'd give the game a 7 out of 10 for the leveling experience until you hit max level. Then I would rate the game a 1 for having no end game goals to attain and a 1 out of 10 for longevity and replayability.

(This is coming from someone who had his Twilight precursor on day 4 of the games launch.)

Originally posted by orsonstfu

I'd give the game a 7 out of 10 for the leveling experience until you hit max level. Then I would rate the game a 1 for having no end game goals to attain and a 1 out of 10 for longevity and replayability.

 

(This is coming from someone who had his Twilight precursor on day 4 of the games launch.)

Or someone who has no life - 4 days after launch? I have just over 300 hours into my level 80 with only 2 pieces of Karma armor so far. People who play 10-18 hours a day every day will burn out on ANY game.

Originally posted by bcbully

Here's what it is.

Anet has found a message for a market.

A lot of boxes have been sold.  

There is still a significant number of people playing. 

 

What I don't understand is why hasn't the stock gone up.

What I don't know is cost of production, how is the cash shop doing. 

 

What I think is that the 5+ year production is more than what most orginally thought. Retention is lower than what was expected by the majority of the mmorpg community.  

 

 

NCSoft isn't only Arenanet.

Arenanet has between 250 and 300 employees now.

On average, over the 5 years of development, lets consider 200 people, earning an average of $75K/year, which is on the high side for a game designer. Some people will earn more than that, but those 200 people aren't all game designers and will earn a lot less.

That is $15M a year or $75M development cost.

Considering the 2M sales far exceeded their expectations, I doubt the budget was over $30-50M.

They recently have sold 3 Millions, half of that from their own site, earning them something like $50. The rest lets assume they make $20 (30%).

1.5M*50= $75M

1.5M*20= $30M

Even if the budget was $75M, they already made a $30M. If the budget was $30M then they made $75M.

Then you have gems.

Lets assume around 10% of the players buy around $10/month in gems. That would be 300K players, but let make it 100K players (or 3% of all boxes sales).

100K*($10*4 months)= Another $4M.

I'll dig some NCSoft reports to check the amount of money Anet was draining.

Brb.

Originally posted by maskedweasel

Originally posted by Warband

Originally posted by Teilo

Originally posted by Warband

Guild Wars 2 has sold over 3 million copies since its August

I have to admit, my initial reaction was.

"is that all?"

How many copies did SWTOR sell again? And that was sub game ...that still isn't doing that well. :-/

Swtor went f2p within a year. It's box sales and sub after after were obviously terrible. This game managed to sell and extra million well after launch in about 3-4 months. That's the distinct difference. One game continued to sell well after launch and probably will continue to sell and the other didn't.. Also considering swtor had star wars IP and the Bioware name recognition near it's peak as well as the massive marketing campaign it's not really comparable, it was also the largest budget mmo in existence and the strongest combined brand power to grace an mmo..

GW2 was however leagues better recieved than swtor was and post launch sales infer that, Considering the most a pc game has sold in that period of time is 6 million (released in far more territories than gw2 was and the biggest in pc game history), there's no way you can infer it so far as mediocre or bad.

"Obviously terrible" is conjecture, as well as subscription numbers total, as nobody really has that information.  In comparison... GW2 went "F2P" after the initial box sale - hence its payment model.  Alternatively, we have no idea how the switch to F2P actually impacts SWTORs revenue... or their current playerbase.  This isn't an apples to apples situation... 

 

Many games have gone F2P, yet they are still active and generate revenue... how much revenue?  Who knows,  but "obviously" profitable for them to still be running.

Umm no... I'm not sure if you can tell the differene but f2p effectively kills box sales as the game is free, logic would dictate, that the sales would have had to have been bad and a rapid decline in subscriptions in order for them to do so.  Also no numbers stated by the company essentially in this situation so heavily implies that they were bad that it could not be so obvious without them telling by how much. GW2 is not F2P, it doesn't even have a free trial you still require to buy the box which is actually fairly expensive in comparison to most pc games. One has box sale revenue the other does not (or not very much). One has a barrier to playing the game another does not.

Originally posted by botrytis

Originally posted by orsonstfu

I'd give the game a 7 out of 10 for the leveling experience until you hit max level. Then I would rate the game a 1 for having no end game goals to attain and a 1 out of 10 for longevity and replayability.

 

(This is coming from someone who had his Twilight precursor on day 4 of the games launch.)

Or someone who has no life - 4 days after launch? I have just over 300 hours into my level 80 with only 2 pieces of Karma armor so far. People who play 10-18 hours a day every day will burn out on ANY game.

You really shouldn't try to read into someone else's life and make calls. I made the precursor before I could even use it by making an excel spread sheet and tracking everything that I tossed into it. Hundreds of items in that time frame.

I work and can play while at work. Your life argument has no merit at all and it makes your argument very weak.

It wasn't about being burned out. It was taking off the rose tinted goggles that I had on and looking at the things that I didn't like.

Originally posted by orsonstfu

Originally posted by botrytis

Originally posted by orsonstfu

I'd give the game a 7 out of 10 for the leveling experience until you hit max level. Then I would rate the game a 1 for having no end game goals to attain and a 1 out of 10 for longevity and replayability.

 

(This is coming from someone who had his Twilight precursor on day 4 of the games launch.)

Or someone who has no life - 4 days after launch? I have just over 300 hours into my level 80 with only 2 pieces of Karma armor so far. People who play 10-18 hours a day every day will burn out on ANY game.

You really shouldn't try to read into someone else's life and make calls. I made the precursor before I could even use it by making an excel spread sheet and tracking everything that I tossed into it. Hundreds of items in that time frame.

I work and can play while at work. Your life argument has no merit at all and it makes your argument very weak.

It wasn't about being burned out. It was taking off the rose tinted goggles that I had on and looking at the things that I didn't like.

Question what was your playtime on the game. because unless got to max level in less than 40 hours if that it fairly impossible to do that without a ridiclous proption of time but in. Rember there are only 24 hours in a day...

Originally posted by Warband

Originally posted by maskedweasel

Originally posted by Warband

Originally posted by Teilo

Originally posted by Warband

Guild Wars 2 has sold over 3 million copies since its August

I have to admit, my initial reaction was.

"is that all?"

How many copies did SWTOR sell again? And that was sub game ...that still isn't doing that well. :-/

Swtor went f2p within a year. It's box sales and sub after after were obviously terrible. This game managed to sell and extra million well after launch in about 3-4 months. That's the distinct difference. One game continued to sell well after launch and probably will continue to sell and the other didn't.. Also considering swtor had star wars IP and the Bioware name recognition near it's peak as well as the massive marketing campaign it's not really comparable, it was also the largest budget mmo in existence and the strongest combined brand power to grace an mmo..

GW2 was however leagues better recieved than swtor was and post launch sales infer that, Considering the most a pc game has sold in that period of time is 6 million (released in far more territories than gw2 was and the biggest in pc game history), there's no way you can infer it so far as mediocre or bad.

"Obviously terrible" is conjecture, as well as subscription numbers total, as nobody really has that information.  In comparison... GW2 went "F2P" after the initial box sale - hence its payment model.  Alternatively, we have no idea how the switch to F2P actually impacts SWTORs revenue... or their current playerbase.  This isn't an apples to apples situation... 

 

Many games have gone F2P, yet they are still active and generate revenue... how much revenue?  Who knows,  but "obviously" profitable for them to still be running.

Umm no... I'm not sure if you can tell the differene but f2p effectively kills box sales as the game is free, logic would dictate, that the sales would have had to have been bad and a rapid decline in subscriptions in order for them to do so.  Also no numbers stated by the company essentially in this situation so heavily implies that they were bad that it could not be so obvious without them telling by how much. GW2 is not F2P, it doesn't even have a free trial you still require to buy the box which is actually fairly expensive in comparison to most pc games. One has box sale revenue the other does not (or not very much). One has a barrier to playing the game another does not.

You clearly missed the point...  SWTOR had plenty of box sales prior to going F2P, plus subscriptions, and now they are F2P.    Games that go F2P aren't necessarily unsuccessful, and we have no idea of how successful SWTOR has or hasn't been.  Thats not "conjecture"  or "common sense"  thats fact.   No numbers stated by the company means very little, as in many cases NCSOFT never revels subscriber numbers, and much less costs on development... nor will GW2 reveal the amount of active players.  

Point being, we can sit here and pretend like we know what we're talking about, but my question stands,  profitability is what matters on a project to determine its success...  the point I made earlier,  even with GW1s amazing "17 billion boxxes zold!" (the amount doesn't matter)  they decrease in revenue per box sold.  In comparison to a subscription model,  or purchase - per - content model, that isn't necessarily the case.

Question what was your playtime on the game. because unless got to max level in less than 40 hours if that it fairly impossible to do that without a ridiclous proption of time but in. Rember there are only 24 hours in a day...

I fail to see how that effects anything.  I played the game a lot sure but it's context of having no life that has no merit.

I had the ability to play that while working a 12 hour on call job 4-5 days a week. I can do it because my job is at times boring and I play games at work. My wife also plays and we were rolling through the content together with 6 of our RL friends.  So the no life issue is gone in my mind because of this. Did I play many hours a day over the course of the first 4 days sure did.

This was my magic combo on the 4th day to get my precursor: Carrion Verdant Warhammer, Travelers Orrian Smasher of Energy. Carrion Verdant Rifle of Corruption, Shaman Norn Axe of Energy.

Originally posted by maskedweasel

Originally posted by Warband

Originally posted by maskedweasel

Originally posted by Warband

Originally posted by Teilo

Originally posted by Warband

Guild Wars 2 has sold over 3 million copies since its August

I have to admit, my initial reaction was.

"is that all?"

How many copies did SWTOR sell again? And that was sub game ...that still isn't doing that well. :-/

Swtor went f2p within a year. It's box sales and sub after after were obviously terrible. This game managed to sell and extra million well after launch in about 3-4 months. That's the distinct difference. One game continued to sell well after launch and probably will continue to sell and the other didn't.. Also considering swtor had star wars IP and the Bioware name recognition near it's peak as well as the massive marketing campaign it's not really comparable, it was also the largest budget mmo in existence and the strongest combined brand power to grace an mmo..

GW2 was however leagues better recieved than swtor was and post launch sales infer that, Considering the most a pc game has sold in that period of time is 6 million (released in far more territories than gw2 was and the biggest in pc game history), there's no way you can infer it so far as mediocre or bad.

"Obviously terrible" is conjecture, as well as subscription numbers total, as nobody really has that information.  In comparison... GW2 went "F2P" after the initial box sale - hence its payment model.  Alternatively, we have no idea how the switch to F2P actually impacts SWTORs revenue... or their current playerbase.  This isn't an apples to apples situation... 

 

Many games have gone F2P, yet they are still active and generate revenue... how much revenue?  Who knows,  but "obviously" profitable for them to still be running.

Umm no... I'm not sure if you can tell the differene but f2p effectively kills box sales as the game is free, logic would dictate, that the sales would have had to have been bad and a rapid decline in subscriptions in order for them to do so.  Also no numbers stated by the company essentially in this situation so heavily implies that they were bad that it could not be so obvious without them telling by how much. GW2 is not F2P, it doesn't even have a free trial you still require to buy the box which is actually fairly expensive in comparison to most pc games. One has box sale revenue the other does not (or not very much). One has a barrier to playing the game another does not.

You clearly missed the point...  SWTOR had plenty of box sales prior to going F2P, plus subscriptions, and now they are F2P.    Games that go F2P aren't necessarily unsuccessful, and we have no idea of how successful SWTOR has or hasn't been.  Thats not "conjecture"  or "common sense"  thats fact.   No numbers stated by the company means very little, as in many cases NCSOFT never revels subscriber numbers, and much less costs on development... nor will GW2 reveal the amount of active players.  

 

Point being, we can sit here and pretend like we know what we're talking about, but my question stands,  profitability is what matters on a project to determine its success...  the point I made earlier,  even with GW1s amazing "17 billion boxxes zold!" (the amount doesn't matter)  they decrease in revenue per box sold.  In comparison to a subscription model,  or purchase - per - content model, that isn't necessarily the case.

GW2 also has gems.

And then you have Arenanet has been growing since GW1.

Bioware started to layoff people in April 2012.

Originally posted by Warband

Guild Wars 2 has sold over 3 million copies since its August, according to an update on the MMO’s website from director Colin Johanson, who also outlined the team’s 2013 plans for the title starting with expanding and leveraging the achievement system.

 

http://www.vg247.com/2013/01/15/guild-wars-2-has-sold-over-3-million-copies-since-august-2013-content-plans-outlined/

 

So now that the game has sold 3 million, what are peoples opinions on it's relative success or dissapointments in comparison to recent themepark mmo's and people, still playing there views on the state of the game.

I quit playing months ago. It was ok.. nothing ground breaking for me. I'm having more fun back in Wow and just started messing around in eq2 again lol

Originally posted by Yamota

Didnt Diablo III sell like 9 million copies? I know it isn't an MMORPG but the payment model of the two are similar and both are action RPGs which do not have an offline component.

So for me 3 million copies is nothing special for a triple A RPG. If it was subscription based then yeah but it is not.

how many albums has justine bieber sold?

Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter

Originally posted by maskedweasel

Originally posted by Warband

Originally posted by maskedweasel

Originally posted by Warband

Originally posted by Teilo

Originally posted by Warband

Guild Wars 2 has sold over 3 million copies since its August

I have to admit, my initial reaction was.

"is that all?"

How many copies did SWTOR sell again? And that was sub game ...that still isn't doing that well. :-/

Swtor went f2p within a year. It's box sales and sub after after were obviously terrible. This game managed to sell and extra million well after launch in about 3-4 months. That's the distinct difference. One game continued to sell well after launch and probably will continue to sell and the other didn't.. Also considering swtor had star wars IP and the Bioware name recognition near it's peak as well as the massive marketing campaign it's not really comparable, it was also the largest budget mmo in existence and the strongest combined brand power to grace an mmo..

GW2 was however leagues better recieved than swtor was and post launch sales infer that, Considering the most a pc game has sold in that period of time is 6 million (released in far more territories than gw2 was and the biggest in pc game history), there's no way you can infer it so far as mediocre or bad.

"Obviously terrible" is conjecture, as well as subscription numbers total, as nobody really has that information.  In comparison... GW2 went "F2P" after the initial box sale - hence its payment model.  Alternatively, we have no idea how the switch to F2P actually impacts SWTORs revenue... or their current playerbase.  This isn't an apples to apples situation... 

 

Many games have gone F2P, yet they are still active and generate revenue... how much revenue?  Who knows,  but "obviously" profitable for them to still be running.

Umm no... I'm not sure if you can tell the differene but f2p effectively kills box sales as the game is free, logic would dictate, that the sales would have had to have been bad and a rapid decline in subscriptions in order for them to do so.  Also no numbers stated by the company essentially in this situation so heavily implies that they were bad that it could not be so obvious without them telling by how much. GW2 is not F2P, it doesn't even have a free trial you still require to buy the box which is actually fairly expensive in comparison to most pc games. One has box sale revenue the other does not (or not very much). One has a barrier to playing the game another does not.

You clearly missed the point...  SWTOR had plenty of box sales prior to going F2P, plus subscriptions, and now they are F2P.    Games that go F2P aren't necessarily unsuccessful, and we have no idea of how successful SWTOR has or hasn't been.  Thats not "conjecture"  or "common sense"  thats fact.   No numbers stated by the company means very little, as in many cases NCSOFT never revels subscriber numbers, and much less costs on development... nor will GW2 reveal the amount of active players.  

 

Point being, we can sit here and pretend like we know what we're talking about, but my question stands,  profitability is what matters on a project to determine its success...  the point I made earlier,  even with GW1s amazing "17 billion boxxes zold!" (the amount doesn't matter)  they decrease in revenue per box sold.  In comparison to a subscription model,  or purchase - per - content model, that isn't necessarily the case.

GW2 also has gems.

And then you have Arenanet has been growing since GW1.

Bioware started to layoff people in April 2012.

GW2 does have gems, but again, we don't know how that plays out in comparison, when you look at revenue.

EA lays off tons of people in different studios everywhere,   NCSoft does just as much, which Arenanet is a part of.  NCSoft will choose what studio needs to layoff who as they have done in previous years. 

Originally posted by maskedweasel

You clearly missed the point...  SWTOR had plenty of box sales prior to going F2P, plus subscriptions, and now they are F2P.    Games that go F2P aren't necessarily unsuccessful, and we have no idea of how successful SWTOR has or hasn't been.  Thats not "conjecture"  or "common sense"  thats fact.   No numbers stated by the company means very little, as in many cases NCSOFT never revels subscriber numbers, and much less costs on development... nor will GW2 reveal the amount of active players.  

 I suggest you go listen to EAs last shareholders conference call which shows no revenue increase for SWTOR but instead ANOTHER DECLINE, a F2P conversion that is not meeting expectations.

Every Subscription game that has EVER gone FREEMIUM has ALWAYS seen a spike in players joining and NOT ONE OF THEM RETAINED a decent portion of those players over a quarterly period, only TWO of them, DDO and LoTRo has been able to keep a decent influx of new players coming in to keep the game somewhat populated...and they didnt do it in such a fail way as Bioware in the massive limitations placed on free players.

Its time to face reality and actually try to get Bioware to WAKE UP and deal with what is HAPPENING TO THE GAME BEFORE IT DIES much sooner than it should.

Originally posted by maskedweasel

Originally posted by Warband

Originally posted by maskedweasel

Originally posted by Warband

Originally posted by Teilo

Originally posted by Warband

Guild Wars 2 has sold over 3 million copies since its August

I have to admit, my initial reaction was.

"is that all?"

How many copies did SWTOR sell again? And that was sub game ...that still isn't doing that well. :-/

Swtor went f2p within a year. It's box sales and sub after after were obviously terrible. This game managed to sell and extra million well after launch in about 3-4 months. That's the distinct difference. One game continued to sell well after launch and probably will continue to sell and the other didn't.. Also considering swtor had star wars IP and the Bioware name recognition near it's peak as well as the massive marketing campaign it's not really comparable, it was also the largest budget mmo in existence and the strongest combined brand power to grace an mmo..

GW2 was however leagues better recieved than swtor was and post launch sales infer that, Considering the most a pc game has sold in that period of time is 6 million (released in far more territories than gw2 was and the biggest in pc game history), there's no way you can infer it so far as mediocre or bad.

"Obviously terrible" is conjecture, as well as subscription numbers total, as nobody really has that information.  In comparison... GW2 went "F2P" after the initial box sale - hence its payment model.  Alternatively, we have no idea how the switch to F2P actually impacts SWTORs revenue... or their current playerbase.  This isn't an apples to apples situation... 

 

Many games have gone F2P, yet they are still active and generate revenue... how much revenue?  Who knows,  but "obviously" profitable for them to still be running.

Umm no... I'm not sure if you can tell the differene but f2p effectively kills box sales as the game is free, logic would dictate, that the sales would have had to have been bad and a rapid decline in subscriptions in order for them to do so.  Also no numbers stated by the company essentially in this situation so heavily implies that they were bad that it could not be so obvious without them telling by how much. GW2 is not F2P, it doesn't even have a free trial you still require to buy the box which is actually fairly expensive in comparison to most pc games. One has box sale revenue the other does not (or not very much). One has a barrier to playing the game another does not.

You clearly missed the point...  SWTOR had plenty of box sales prior to going F2P, plus subscriptions, and now they are F2P.    Games that go F2P aren't necessarily unsuccessful, and we have no idea of how successful SWTOR has or hasn't been.  Thats not "conjecture"  or "common sense"  thats fact.   No numbers stated by the company means very little, as in many cases NCSOFT never revels subscriber numbers, and much less costs on development... nor will GW2 reveal the amount of active players.  

 

Point being, we can sit here and pretend like we know what we're talking about, but my question stands,  profitability is what matters on a project to determine its success...  the point I made earlier,  even with GW1s amazing "17 billion boxxes zold!" (the amount doesn't matter)  they decrease in revenue per box sold.  In comparison to a subscription model,  or purchase - per - content model, that isn't necessarily the case.

No you missed my point a company is about maximising profit a conversion to f2p is not some cheap thing you do just for the sake of it, it actually costs money. and is a massive risk (there's no guarantee that going f2p will drastically increase revenue) That means the previous revenue modle was unsustainable, companies don't give a shit if something was profitale before hand if it was a bad oportunity cost and is drastically on the decline. The means the box sales weren't working out for them at all. Bacause the profit from the amount made from the game wasn't even and worst still was greatly decreasing. Success of products like these aren't determined by a products launch but by long term achievements.

Its good for Anet that the success of their MMO is measured according to number of boxes sold and not recuring subscription. But then again no surprise because GW2 is like console games like COD, battlefield etc. You buy the box and play for as long as you want.

Now if it was sub game...it would be completely different picture.

Originally posted by maskedweasel

 

GW2 does have gems, but again, we don't know how that plays out in comparison, when you look at revenue.

EA lays off tons of people in different studios everywhere,   NCSoft does just as much, which Arenanet is a part of.  NCSoft will choose what studio needs to layoff who as they have done in previous years. 

ArenaNet may be a subsidiary, but they have autonomy in that regards and even have a buy-back clause for their products should relations with NCSoft go south. NCSoft fronts cash, collects profits and stays out of the way.