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General Discussion  » ESO - will it be a GW2 clon?

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94 posts found
  Vorthanion

Elite Member

Joined: 7/02/11
Posts: 1891

1/15/13 12:12:25 AM#41
I'm already turned off by the change in direction with the combat being more action oriented with a limited hotbar.  I could at least overlook it in the single player game thanks to an open ended world with a lot of non-combat options and the all important 'pause' function.  Add to that even more GW2 mechanics and I no longer want to even try the game.  Thank God for EverQuest Next!

  Vorthanion

Elite Member

Joined: 7/02/11
Posts: 1891

1/15/13 12:16:53 AM#42
Originally posted by Eir_S
Originally posted by Torvaldr
Originally posted by Eir_S
Originally posted by baphamet

 


Originally posted by Eir_S
I was listening to a video with a friend about TESO's "massive PvP zone" and everything they said sounded exactly like GW2's WvW and the promises of ANet.  Now she is the only friend of mine that was disappointed with GW2 so she tells me "Yeah but GW2 was rushed, if you do it right you can influence player behavior".

 

Pretty naive if you ask me.  If there is the possibility of zerging, a zerg will happen.  And that's exactly what's going to happen in TESO.


 

except that there will be other meaningful things to do in cyridiil besides zerging keeps, like GW2

the WvW in GW2 feels like an over sized battle ground. from reading about teso, the entire zone wuil have pve and pvp elements.

it will be a true open pvp zone with players doing other things besides mindless zerging.

You just proved my point.  That's EXACTLY what ANet said about WvW.  And yeah, when people read about it, it sounded unlike what it turned out to be... which might be exactly what you're doing now.  We'll know when it's done, but until then, promises, promises... ones I think will fall flat.  Again.

I have yet to see large scale pvp that isn't zergball.   The ability to control players and their behavior is rather limited.

Yeah, that's what I'm getting at.  This isn't an RTS.  Whether the obstacle is a gate or a boss, people will group up and they will mash buttons.  Does that mean it won't be fun?  I don't see it that way, but people expecting something wildly different are in for a shock.  Don't expect anyone to follow orders either, "Commanders" in GW2 already try and no one listens to them.

Maybe it's due to the fact that when people split up, they tend to die horribly.  Safety in numbers is as natural to us as it is to the animal kingdom.  It's easy enough for 'Commanders' to send people off to their likely deaths when they themselves stick around with the main force.  Even in PvP, people play to have fun and it's not fun when you have to constantly run back from your long distanced spawn point.

  Siug

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/02/12
Posts: 975

1/15/13 12:25:50 AM#43
Hope it's not anything like GW2 PvE wise because it's my worst PvE experience in over 10 years. /shudder 
  Lizardone

Novice Member

Joined: 11/18/12
Posts: 94

1/15/13 5:30:05 PM#44
No. It's always WoW clone, that's the standard :)
  mazut

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/23/08
Posts: 825

1/16/13 2:02:39 AM#45
Originally posted by Vorthanion
I'm already turned off by the change in direction with the combat being more action oriented with a limited hotbar.  I could at least overlook it in the single player game thanks to an open ended world with a lot of non-combat options and the all important 'pause' function.  Add to that even more GW2 mechanics and I no longer want to even try the game.  Thank God for EverQuest Next!

"combat being more action oriented" ... "limited hotbar" ... Have you ever played ES game before???

  slim26

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/15/07
Posts: 666

1/16/13 2:12:04 AM#46
ESO WILL FAIL! and that ANGERS ME. We waited for something like this for a long time and this is what we get after all those years, what ever developers, WHAT EVER!
  darkrain21

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/06/10
Posts: 250

1/16/13 2:22:09 AM#47
I think the game will be strong in its own sense. Guild Bores 2 was a strong start but it caters waaaaayyyy to much to only one side, that side being the pvp side and even that is limited to the point of it being elected mayor of snoresville. I understand they wanted to get rid of the gear grind and the trinity but then that just pushed people who enjoy tanking, healing and that gear grind away. I enjoy raiding, i enjoy advancing my character when i cap. GW2 didnt offer any of that and i hope ESO takes a note and takes a few things from GW2 but stays away from their PVE system cuz it suuuuuuuuucked.
  Eir_S

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/07/11
Posts: 4694

GW2 socialist.

1/16/13 4:01:45 AM#48
Originally posted by darkrain21
I think the game will be strong in its own sense. Guild Bores 2 was a strong start but it caters waaaaayyyy to much to only one side, that side being the pvp side and even that is limited to the point of it being elected mayor of snoresville. I understand they wanted to get rid of the gear grind and the trinity but then that just pushed people who enjoy tanking, healing and that gear grind away. I enjoy raiding, i enjoy advancing my character when i cap. GW2 didnt offer any of that and i hope ESO takes a note and takes a few things from GW2 but stays away from their PVE system cuz it suuuuuuuuucked.

Ok, sure.  Seeing as I've played the game TWICE as long as Skyrim and only did 5 Spvp matches, every other hour being spent in PvE zones and dungeons, you're not convincing me.  But then you are the same person who said 3 million copies of a game sold in 5 months was "kinda bad".

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

1/16/13 4:39:42 AM#49
I don't think this will be a "raiders first" game like wow and its various clones. It should share that with gw2 at least, which is good as raiders have been the squekiest wheel that gets oiled to the detriment of everyone else for many years.
  Agent_Joseph

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/11/06
Posts: 791

1/16/13 5:26:17 AM#50

GW2 is best selling new  mmo,companies going to make same games,just as was with WoW in past

I hope ESO ll be GW2 clone with no asian shiny graphic

 

only EVE is real MMO...but I am impressive with TSW

  Axxar

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/09/08
Posts: 1942

"See how I reward those who fail me!"

1/16/13 10:39:11 AM#51
The game looks like a mix of SWTOR, WoW, WAR and DAoC. So yes, it will be a GW2 "clon."

Currently playing: Divinity: Original Sin, FTL, Hearthstone and Skyrim.
Eagerly anticipating: Camelot Unchained, Elite: Dangerous, Legend of Grimrock 2 and Star Citizen.

  Eir_S

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/07/11
Posts: 4694

GW2 socialist.

1/16/13 2:11:01 PM#52
Originally posted by Axxar
The game looks like a mix of SWTOR, WoW, WAR and DAoC. So yes, it will be a GW2 "clon."

Well depending on who you ask, GW2 was a mix of some of those games too.

Clon wars.

  Foxxen

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/30/10
Posts: 21

One movement, One moment, One shot, One mistake, One questions, will you be ready?

1/16/13 2:12:53 PM#53

This game is far from being a clone of GW2 for a lot of reasons.  Skills for one, Quests and Lore is another, Graphics are far far above anything in GW2, mechanics is another.  Just because a game has similar aspects, does NOT make a clone.  Read what the word "Clone" means in the dictionary, it's an exact copy of something already in existance.  What I have breifly pointed out here already far exceeds GW2 which wouldn't have taken much at all.  GW2 is only good for a short play period, same with GW1.  It's something to do when you're bored with everything else in my opinion.

Where I feel ESO is going to come up short is the way the server is set up.  One Mega Server means everyone will just zerg through the content.  There is going to be way too many on one server for it to be any fun.  To me being on the highest populated servers in games has always been frustrating.  The one thing I miss in MMORPG's is the true Guild aspect.  No game since DAoC has done Guilds right.  There is no need to be in them, no need to form groups, no need to be a part of anything really.  I blame this one on WoW, definitely after they put in the Group Finding tools for both dungeons and raids.  They just pulled the nail on any reason once so ever to be part of a guild.

GW2 is even worse because the perks you get as a guild?  You pay for them, then have to wait to use them so you have to plan things in advance.  But if people don't show up like it's their job, you can't always bank on that going well for you.  So that was a bad design right there, they should have made the effect happen then, then make you wait x-amount of time to use it again.  Every game so far I've been in has been very much less and less about Guilds.  DAoC had a damn good system and made it even better over time.  They recognized the power of Guilds and that was great.  Now days, it's just about get me and out as fast as possible, to the end of the game as fast as possible, raid, raid, raid, then rage quit because there is nothing left to do till the next content patch or expansion.

PvP is another sore topic, because it's plaqued with the biggest whiners across the globe.  None of them are ever happy even after they get what they want.  They just find something else to complain about it seems.  Don't get me wrong, I once was HUGE on PvP, especially coming from DAoC.  I had eight level 50's and three were RR5+ and two were RR7+ one of them two were almost RR8 when I quit.  I personally would have made it to max rank had I stayed, but all my friends left for WoW.  I didn't feel up to dealing with the dwindling numbers.  So I went with them.  But PvP has never been that good since and I don't see it ever becoming as good again.  Today's gamers don't want it.  They want Quake or Call of Duty style pvp is seems.

What makes an MMO a RPG is that the RPG doesn't just mean Role Playing Game here.  The RPG aspect of it also brings with it a lot of standards that are followed.  These standards include Stat Points that you put where you want each level, Racial Choices, Armor and Weapon choices, Character Creation Choices that are very detailed.  This list is HUGE and that was but a short and I mean very short list.  RPG also meant that the game was HUGE on story and content.  So to understand as to why it's so hard to make PvP work properly in this setting is to make someone very unhappy at times because they can't take getting hit by an archer while wearing cloth.  They can't stand also getting destroyed by a fireball while wearing plate.

RPG aspects dictated weaknesses and strengths in everything.  People don't like that, they want balance.  There is no such a thing as -balance- where RPG comes in.  What does come in, is you adapt and move on, or die.  Recently I did this in Skyrim, as I chose to finally make a pure caster.  No light armor, no heavy armor, pure zero rated cloth.  What I used to find minute and pointless to worry about suddenly became my worst enemy.  Heck, even those stupid bear traps hurt early on.  I had to learn how to play all over again because I refused to take the game off of Adept till later when I pushed it to Expert.  Now I'm still playing that character, not even close to being done, but at some point I'll put the game on Master I'm sure of it.

Point is, I'm the type that adapts and moves on.  Not one to let my weaknesses get the best of me and start complaining that I want my cloth armor to protect me better.  No no... Instead I decided to reinvent myself from my archer ways to approach the game differently.  That is something I'd like to see more players do, less whining, more adapting and moving on.  But PvP will always have zergs of one kind or another unless it's instanced off arenas.  Which I wouldn't mind them setting up the old Oblivion style arena in ESO where we could go in with Arena gear given to us before the fight and being able to place bets and so on.... That would RULE!

Anyway, I've rambled on long enough... Have fun everyone! :)

Guild Leader

The Order of Sanity

  deakon

Novice Member

Joined: 3/07/11
Posts: 588

1/16/13 2:59:40 PM#54

The only thing i can see thats like gw2 is the limited action bar and the "anchors"

 

It has raids, trinity, gear progression, a deep skill progression (my favourite announcement to date tbh), factions and no limits when it comes to items types.

 

Sure ive missed some, but either way not really a "clon" of anything

  trash656

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/18/05
Posts: 378

It is easier to Fight for Principles then it is to Live up to them.

1/17/13 8:59:09 AM#55

Pretty hard to judge just from looking at screenshots and gameplay videos, although that being said, I hope the game will be descent. From the "looks" of it, it's following the WoW formula and I really really really hope they don't go down that route, Because there is already enough of those WoW cloned Formula MMO's already out there.

Instead I hope they keep it to the ideal Elderscrolls route, the fact you cannot travel to enemy zones, and that there is phasing has me concerned because then that means the game is not as open world as what was stated by developers. And I already am weary of developers and PR people because most of them are full of shitbags. So I'm not holding my breath for anything and keeping a negative tone towards this game, then I won't be dissapointed if I find out that it's another SWTOR, or GW2 deal.

  trash656

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/18/05
Posts: 378

It is easier to Fight for Principles then it is to Live up to them.

1/17/13 9:03:14 AM#56
Originally posted by Foxxen

This game is far from being a clone of GW2 for a lot of reasons.  Skills for one, Quests and Lore is another, Graphics are far far above anything in GW2, mechanics is another.  Just because a game has similar aspects, does NOT make a clone.  Read what the word "Clone" means in the dictionary, it's an exact copy of something already in existance.  What I have breifly pointed out here already far exceeds GW2 which wouldn't have taken much at all.  GW2 is only good for a short play period, same with GW1.  It's something to do when you're bored with everything else in my opinion.

Where I feel ESO is going to come up short is the way the server is set up.  One Mega Server means everyone will just zerg through the content.  There is going to be way too many on one server for it to be any fun.  To me being on the highest populated servers in games has always been frustrating.  The one thing I miss in MMORPG's is the true Guild aspect.  No game since DAoC has done Guilds right.  There is no need to be in them, no need to form groups, no need to be a part of anything really.  I blame this one on WoW, definitely after they put in the Group Finding tools for both dungeons and raids.  They just pulled the nail on any reason once so ever to be part of a guild.

GW2 is even worse because the perks you get as a guild?  You pay for them, then have to wait to use them so you have to plan things in advance.  But if people don't show up like it's their job, you can't always bank on that going well for you.  So that was a bad design right there, they should have made the effect happen then, then make you wait x-amount of time to use it again.  Every game so far I've been in has been very much less and less about Guilds.  DAoC had a damn good system and made it even better over time.  They recognized the power of Guilds and that was great.  Now days, it's just about get me and out as fast as possible, to the end of the game as fast as possible, raid, raid, raid, then rage quit because there is nothing left to do till the next content patch or expansion.

PvP is another sore topic, because it's plaqued with the biggest whiners across the globe.  None of them are ever happy even after they get what they want.  They just find something else to complain about it seems.  Don't get me wrong, I once was HUGE on PvP, especially coming from DAoC.  I had eight level 50's and three were RR5+ and two were RR7+ one of them two were almost RR8 when I quit.  I personally would have made it to max rank had I stayed, but all my friends left for WoW.  I didn't feel up to dealing with the dwindling numbers.  So I went with them.  But PvP has never been that good since and I don't see it ever becoming as good again.  Today's gamers don't want it.  They want Quake or Call of Duty style pvp is seems.

What makes an MMO a RPG is that the RPG doesn't just mean Role Playing Game here.  The RPG aspect of it also brings with it a lot of standards that are followed.  These standards include Stat Points that you put where you want each level, Racial Choices, Armor and Weapon choices, Character Creation Choices that are very detailed.  This list is HUGE and that was but a short and I mean very short list.  RPG also meant that the game was HUGE on story and content.  So to understand as to why it's so hard to make PvP work properly in this setting is to make someone very unhappy at times because they can't take getting hit by an archer while wearing cloth.  They can't stand also getting destroyed by a fireball while wearing plate.

RPG aspects dictated weaknesses and strengths in everything.  People don't like that, they want balance.  There is no such a thing as -balance- where RPG comes in.  What does come in, is you adapt and move on, or die.  Recently I did this in Skyrim, as I chose to finally make a pure caster.  No light armor, no heavy armor, pure zero rated cloth.  What I used to find minute and pointless to worry about suddenly became my worst enemy.  Heck, even those stupid bear traps hurt early on.  I had to learn how to play all over again because I refused to take the game off of Adept till later when I pushed it to Expert.  Now I'm still playing that character, not even close to being done, but at some point I'll put the game on Master I'm sure of it.

Point is, I'm the type that adapts and moves on.  Not one to let my weaknesses get the best of me and start complaining that I want my cloth armor to protect me better.  No no... Instead I decided to reinvent myself from my archer ways to approach the game differently.  That is something I'd like to see more players do, less whining, more adapting and moving on.  But PvP will always have zergs of one kind or another unless it's instanced off arenas.  Which I wouldn't mind them setting up the old Oblivion style arena in ESO where we could go in with Arena gear given to us before the fight and being able to place bets and so on.... That would RULE!

Anyway, I've rambled on long enough... Have fun everyone! :)

Holy crap, you should write a book on MMORPG's

  Rashmeind

Novice Member

Joined: 1/17/13
Posts: 18

1/17/13 11:57:09 AM#57
What's a don?  I hope it's not a GW2 don nonetheless >_>

http://www.trialsofascension.com/

  Foxxen

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/30/10
Posts: 21

One movement, One moment, One shot, One mistake, One questions, will you be ready?

1/21/13 12:50:30 PM#58
Originally posted by trash656
Originally posted by Foxxen

This game is far from being a clone of GW2 for a lot of reasons.  Skills for one, Quests and Lore is another, Graphics are far far above anything in GW2, mechanics is another.  Just because a game has similar aspects, does NOT make a clone.  Read what the word "Clone" means in the dictionary, it's an exact copy of something already in existance.  What I have breifly pointed out here already far exceeds GW2 which wouldn't have taken much at all.  GW2 is only good for a short play period, same with GW1.  It's something to do when you're bored with everything else in my opinion.

Where I feel ESO is going to come up short is the way the server is set up.  One Mega Server means everyone will just zerg through the content.  There is going to be way too many on one server for it to be any fun.  To me being on the highest populated servers in games has always been frustrating.  The one thing I miss in MMORPG's is the true Guild aspect.  No game since DAoC has done Guilds right.  There is no need to be in them, no need to form groups, no need to be a part of anything really.  I blame this one on WoW, definitely after they put in the Group Finding tools for both dungeons and raids.  They just pulled the nail on any reason once so ever to be part of a guild.

GW2 is even worse because the perks you get as a guild?  You pay for them, then have to wait to use them so you have to plan things in advance.  But if people don't show up like it's their job, you can't always bank on that going well for you.  So that was a bad design right there, they should have made the effect happen then, then make you wait x-amount of time to use it again.  Every game so far I've been in has been very much less and less about Guilds.  DAoC had a damn good system and made it even better over time.  They recognized the power of Guilds and that was great.  Now days, it's just about get me and out as fast as possible, to the end of the game as fast as possible, raid, raid, raid, then rage quit because there is nothing left to do till the next content patch or expansion.

PvP is another sore topic, because it's plaqued with the biggest whiners across the globe.  None of them are ever happy even after they get what they want.  They just find something else to complain about it seems.  Don't get me wrong, I once was HUGE on PvP, especially coming from DAoC.  I had eight level 50's and three were RR5+ and two were RR7+ one of them two were almost RR8 when I quit.  I personally would have made it to max rank had I stayed, but all my friends left for WoW.  I didn't feel up to dealing with the dwindling numbers.  So I went with them.  But PvP has never been that good since and I don't see it ever becoming as good again.  Today's gamers don't want it.  They want Quake or Call of Duty style pvp is seems.

What makes an MMO a RPG is that the RPG doesn't just mean Role Playing Game here.  The RPG aspect of it also brings with it a lot of standards that are followed.  These standards include Stat Points that you put where you want each level, Racial Choices, Armor and Weapon choices, Character Creation Choices that are very detailed.  This list is HUGE and that was but a short and I mean very short list.  RPG also meant that the game was HUGE on story and content.  So to understand as to why it's so hard to make PvP work properly in this setting is to make someone very unhappy at times because they can't take getting hit by an archer while wearing cloth.  They can't stand also getting destroyed by a fireball while wearing plate.

RPG aspects dictated weaknesses and strengths in everything.  People don't like that, they want balance.  There is no such a thing as -balance- where RPG comes in.  What does come in, is you adapt and move on, or die.  Recently I did this in Skyrim, as I chose to finally make a pure caster.  No light armor, no heavy armor, pure zero rated cloth.  What I used to find minute and pointless to worry about suddenly became my worst enemy.  Heck, even those stupid bear traps hurt early on.  I had to learn how to play all over again because I refused to take the game off of Adept till later when I pushed it to Expert.  Now I'm still playing that character, not even close to being done, but at some point I'll put the game on Master I'm sure of it.

Point is, I'm the type that adapts and moves on.  Not one to let my weaknesses get the best of me and start complaining that I want my cloth armor to protect me better.  No no... Instead I decided to reinvent myself from my archer ways to approach the game differently.  That is something I'd like to see more players do, less whining, more adapting and moving on.  But PvP will always have zergs of one kind or another unless it's instanced off arenas.  Which I wouldn't mind them setting up the old Oblivion style arena in ESO where we could go in with Arena gear given to us before the fight and being able to place bets and so on.... That would RULE!

Anyway, I've rambled on long enough... Have fun everyone! :)

Holy crap, you should write a book on MMORPG's

Eh, I probably could if I wanted to, but it would be outdated before it ever reached the shelves or made available for digital purchase.  These games are worse than any computer or electronic device about how fast they change.  Most of them definitely do not change for the good either. :\

Guild Leader

The Order of Sanity

  Vapors

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/16/10
Posts: 386

1/21/13 12:53:53 PM#59
Originally posted by AreQ

Well im reading and watching some stuff about ESO, and i see its a lot like GW2:

In big  PvP you got really the same mechanic that GW2 has (big castle, small castle, and suply camps - viliges, machines and stuff). Ok it want be realm vs realm, but faction vs faction, and thats cool, but otherways.. same mechanic.

In case of trinity, well they both dont want it in game.

Combat mechanic proly will be diferent (without cooldowns?) thou.

 

So, will ESO be a GW2 in diverent settings? What do you guys think?

I mean after gw2 took so much from warhammer or daoc, its ok if eso takes abit from them too isn't it right?

  winter

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/08/03
Posts: 2224

1/21/13 12:59:34 PM#60
Whats a GW2 clon ??? Is Clon a none english term if so please enlighten me.
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