Originally posted by Dewm

Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

Originally posted by Dewm

Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

Originally posted by Dewm

Originally posted by Disdena

Originally posted by Dewm

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 EQ had lots of stutters.  Fast responsive controls were just not there.  Delays and stutters were very common. 

Some games had decent crafting.  Some games do now.  Housing was not very common in older MMO's, it has always been rare.

There was not lots of customization in older MMOs. 

Like I said, my own hands on was only with FFXI, and EQ... I don't remember "fast" controls because you didn't need to mash 15 buttons a second, but as far as navegating around windowns and walking around in the world I don't remember any lag (rose colored glasses..maybe?)

and as far as player housing.. can you name one single AAA MMO that has had housing in the last 5 years?

 

And as far as options.... FFXI had 5 races, with race specific stats, tons of hair styles and all of that crap (which I never really cared about) 

it had 18 jobs, 9 crafting classes

 

etc etc... I don't see how you say there wasn't alot of customization.

 

 

No you couldn't put a tatoo on a face or change a girls breast size... but who really cares about that stuff?

One thing I am definitely glad has gone away from the days of EQ was the abysmally boring fighting. Hit attack, and sit and wait...and hope more of your attacks land than the enemies.

Then...you couldn't take on reds or sometimes even yellows because your chances of missing were higher and chances of death higher. Now, you have many options in fighting and can sometimes take on those reds or yellows if you know your class well. And also get a bit of luck and not have a whole lot of resists. =) Combat is definitely MUCH better now.

Originally posted by Starpower

Originally posted by Disdena

especially when nearly every single one of those games is still running but has almost no players.

I'm only going to comment on this part because it's a clear fallacious argument I see often. Games get stale specially with the rise of new technology. It doesn't matter if it has all the bells and whistles people moan about. There's several factors that apply. One being people like to play the latest and greatest following the flock. Another being, once you have grown tired of a MMO people rarely return. If they did then the oldest MMOs would obviously be competitive in player numbers.

 

Games have changed but so have the generation of gamers. They don't have the same expectations as the first generation of MMO gamers, because they weren't around then.

No, I think we're more or less on the same page. It's true that MMOs are bound to lose players as time goes on, as players leave for a variety of reasons and fewer players join the game to replace them. No question. But those MMOs are unpopular today for more reasons that just the fact that they're not the newest game. You could not get today's MMO players to embrace one of the granddaddy MMOs just by slapping a fresh coat of paint on it and rereleasing it as a "new" game.

Originally posted by Dewm

Originally posted by Arglebargle

Disdena brings up a number of good points. 

 

The OP mentions playing the old school games for 5-8 hours at a pop.   Game developers have realized that a lot of people who might otherwise play (and buy) their games, can't do this with any regularity.  I think the OP underestimates the amount of money that would need to be spent to 'modernize' the old school game;  art, animation, coding, etc;  that has to be paid for, usually upfront, and a resonable return on investment has to be there.   As Disdena points out, many of these games had serious problems.   Bad launches, poor coding, giant chunks that worked poorly or not at all, now substandard art or animation.  Is it 'higher expectations' to want a return to THAT?  SWG had character classes that never worked right.   UO had continual, massive changes, because things didn't work the way the developers intended.  And that was not due to them wanting UO to be a WoW-clone.

 

The proposed game has to bring in a profit for the people making it.  Until it can be shown there's a real market, all you'll see is small, independant companies doing these types of games, usually with attendant serious issues.   

 

We are not disagreeing here, I do admit most people don't have 5-8hrs to play, (I don't anymore) And I know it would take a fair amount of money to "modernize" older MMO's.. 

But the point of my OP was, expectations have not risen. if anything we expect less from games.

 

In the old days, we expected player housing

we expected in-depth crafting

we expected a good varity of classes

we expected a large world

 

....now days the newer games rarely have any of those features, and if they do its touted as some great accomplishment, some feet that was really difficult, that no game has ever done before.

 

look at the hype around Archeage... looks to be a awesome game. but does it really have anything that EQ didn't have? 

Great post by the OP and this just about sums it up ; The diatribe delivered these days under the umbrella of "MMO" is laughable.

The Quality/Depth of Gameplay just don't exist anymore... It is all so easy with Auto everything.

Seems most here have no argument even though they are trying, Very good post ...

"Game Developers have realised they can make more money , producing trash games a sad state of affairs..."

Originally posted by Dewm

Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

Originally posted by Dewm

Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

Originally posted by Dewm

Originally posted by Disdena

Originally posted by Dewm

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 EQ had lots of stutters.  Fast responsive controls were just not there.  Delays and stutters were very common. 

Some games had decent crafting.  Some games do now.  Housing was not very common in older MMO's, it has always been rare.

There was not lots of customization in older MMOs. 

Like I said, my own hands on was only with FFXI, and EQ... I don't remember "fast" controls because you didn't need to mash 15 buttons a second, but as far as navegating around windowns and walking around in the world I don't remember any lag (rose colored glasses..maybe?)

and as far as player housing.. can you name one single AAA MMO that has had housing in the last 5 years?

 

And as far as options.... FFXI had 5 races, with race specific stats, tons of hair styles and all of that crap (which I never really cared about) 

it had 18 jobs, 9 crafting classes

 

etc etc... I don't see how you say there wasn't alot of customization.

 

 

No you couldn't put a tatoo on a face or change a girls breast size... but who really cares about that stuff?

Some games had more than others, just like today.

FF may have had a few (only played that for about a month so can't remember) but EQ while a lot of races only a few hair styles and face styles, it was more akin to wow today.

CoH, CO, Aion, Perfect world  have infinetley more options. 

Overall more games today, IMO, have more customization options than the majority of games in the past. 

No lag in EQ?  The bazaar was horrible for it.  There are entire articles written about the lag and stutters about EQ. 

The average character customization of most old games is our minimum today. 

Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

Originally posted by Dewm

Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

Originally posted by Dewm

Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

Originally posted by Dewm

Originally posted by Disdena

Originally posted by Dewm

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Some games had more than others, just like today.

FF may have had a few (only played that for about a month so can't remember) but EQ while a lot of races only a few hair styles and face styles, it was more akin to wow today.

CoH, CO, Aion, Perfect world  have infinetley more options. 

Overall more games today, IMO, have more customization options than the majority of games in the past. 

No lag in EQ?  The bazaar was horrible for it.  There are entire articles written about the lag and stutters about EQ. 

The average character customization of most old games is our minimum today. 

Well as far as the lag goes.. was it the game, or the fact that 99% of the player base was on a 56k dial-up modem 

>.<

/connect

Bssshhhhzzzzz  wrrrrrrrr  bleeeep  warrrrrrrr  bssshhhhzzzz

haha the good ol' days.

That I couldn't say.

I was on broadband back then, but admittedly I was also still using stock pre-built computers.

Originally posted by Goatgod76

Originally posted by Quirhid
 

Sigh...if you say so. I'm not getting into another of the usual garbage, go nowehere arguments with you.

 

P.S.

1.	instant gratification	43 up, 16 down
	1)immediate satisfaction; the quick attainability of happiness or of contentness.

How something that refers to quick fun is a slur IDK. The term doesn't offend me, and I play them as well. It's just something I don't feel should saturate MMORPG's. Not saying it doesn't belong at all, just not to the ridiculous degree it does now. There is little to no RPG portion in them now. But again, this is my personal outlook.

 

See those thumbs up and down? Those mean its an obscure term. Probably coined by bittervets, used by bittervets. Still slur.

Originally posted by Dewm

 

 

In responce to a recent thread here on the site, which takes a look at the issue of players with higher game expectations, and I thought this was off topic enough that it didn't belong in the thread.

 

 

I see quite often around this site, how expectations are higher now, how we see games through rose colored glasses etc etc.. I'm here to tell you, you are wrong. Just plain wrong.

Do I have high expectations? no not at all, I want a remake of a game made in 2003 with updated graphics... is that to much to ask? do I have high expectations?.. I don't think so.

Now many old school MMO'ers on this site would probably agree with what I just said, just replace the said game. Whether its EQ, FFXI, SWG, UO etc... we don't have high expectations, we just expect to have what we had 10 years ago, we are tired of moving backwards..

 

Favorit things about FFXI? indepth crafting, enough to keep you busy for months, forced partying, grinding, player housing.. I don't think any of these things are unresonable. I don't think I am looking through rose colored glasses.. I am just looking back 10 years, and saying "wow that stuff was fun"

 

Now why don't we have that stuff today? because our nitch market of 200-400k ppl isn't as much of a money maker as the MMO-lite crowed of today. So we'll probably never see a "old school mmo again"  Now are you tired of hearing us bitch and complain?...find a different forum to visit. 

So what you are saying is that, all those old games are great, but you wouldn't play them until you get better graphics. Sounds like a whine. If the developers believe in their old games, they can always just upgrade the graphics engine to make it look better.

And why should I find a different forum? Why can't you find a different forum to bitch about?

Originally posted by Quirhid

Originally posted by Goatgod76

Originally posted by Quirhid
 

Sigh...if you say so. I'm not getting into another of the usual garbage, go nowehere arguments with you.

 

P.S.

1.	instant gratification	43 up, 16 down
	1)immediate satisfaction; the quick attainability of happiness or of contentness.

How something that refers to quick fun is a slur IDK. The term doesn't offend me, and I play them as well. It's just something I don't feel should saturate MMORPG's. Not saying it doesn't belong at all, just not to the ridiculous degree it does now. There is little to no RPG portion in them now. But again, this is my personal outlook.

 

See those thumbs up and down? Those mean its an obscure term. Probably coined by bittervets, used by bittervets. Still slur.

If you say so. Just means 16 people take it personally like you, for whatever reason. Find someone else to argue with that cares, because you are impossible to hold a conversation with. You just want to assume I am one sided...yet look at my post history..it will tell otherwise.

Last time I will tell you or respond to one of your ridiculous blatherings..I have absolutely no problem with features in MMORPG's that make the game more accessible and fun. Just NOT to the point of rendering the genre extinct, or rendering it a mere shell of it's former self and what made it a unique genre in the first place...niche or not.

And it's people such as you trying to push that envelope constantly, and enter old school threads where you have no business if you aren't going to try and add constructive posts and instead just say why none of it can work that get under my skin. Stay out of old school threads if you aren't going to be constructive...all that is asked. I have ignored it a long time...but there comes a point someone will lose those patience and come in to tell you to STFU (I just did it in nicer terms).

But anyway..my time is done with it as I am wasting my time on someone who is hell bent on assumptions and just arguing for the sake of arguing it seems. Going to go play and enjoy Vanguard now.

P.S. It's interesting that when I made a comment about people doing the above stated, without mentioning names...you responded directly...with again,  assumptions and crude comments. Enjoy talking to yourself from here on out.

Originally posted by xKingdomx

Originally posted by Dewm

 

 

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So what you are saying is that, all those old games are great, but you wouldn't play them until you get better graphics. Sounds like a whine. If the developers believe in their old games, they can always just upgrade the graphics engine to make it look better.

And why should I find a different forum? Why can't you find a different forum to bitch about?

haha, So I need to find another forum to complain on?.. why don't you go read another forum?

As as far as me "whining".....uhmmm you are the only one so far who would interpret what I said, that way. So.. cool story brah?