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News & Features Discussion  » [Column] Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn: Cerebral vs Visceral Combat, Part 2

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31 posts found
  jskeets916

Novice Member

Joined: 1/08/13
Posts: 160

1/16/13 5:02:00 AM#21
Originally posted by colddog04
Originally posted by jskeets916

Nobody is saying trust them and just play it, the only thing i'm saying is be a rational human being and wait AT LEAST until the first stage of what appears to be a 3 month long beta (in which feedback and changes are obviously expected to take place) as opposed to rating a game on outdated alpha content.

 

To be blunt, wait til the game is closer to its summer release and they've released a playable state with at least half of the levels and combat mechanics included before you rate a game ?/10...

Oh yes and http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=RC94IMXyDQQ

 

^ That link is of an archer doing a solo levequest at rank 20 in alpha... you really are even more ignorant than you sound when you post links such as this clearly furthering my point that you jumping the gun to bash something instead of evaluating the gameplay and combat system which is party-based based on a video of someone playing solo.

 

A more simpler analagy, it would be similar to judging the NFL after watching wide receiver drills... One facet of a group dynamic sport which if like i mentioned earlier, you had played ffxi more than a month you would understand that is more akin to what you can expect.

 

I think you're being just a tad defensive. I did qualify all of my statements with "so far," "at least right now," and other similar things. Perhaps just chill and realize it's some guy on the internet expressing their opinion about what they've seen so far. Your baby will be ok if it's a good game no matter what anyone says.

 

We'll see how it turns out. Hopefully the combat gets some major upgrades and you are correct that it will add a lot more depth to the strategic quality of combat between now and release. As I've stated before, I'm still skeptical that it's going to be this great and interesting thing based on what we've seen so far and what they've said is coming down the pipeline for the combat.

 

I also think the analogy would be more like watching a high school football game with the simpler plays and more straightforward offense/defense schemes and that the game needs some more time to bake and become their NFL version of it. 

 

Edit: Also, watch the end of the video I linked. It is large group combat. So please stop being insulting by telling me I'm ignorant when you are obviously ignorant of the content of the video I posted. I mean... damn, at least watch it once before acting like that.

Hmmm tough don't know where to start, but i guess i'd note that i've watched the video (several times before you linked it) and how many times do i need to point out that they are level 20... in alpha...?

 

Is that a complicated concept?

 

Furthermore what class did you play in ffxi? did you get anything 75? Refresh, SATA, these things mean anything to you?

Probably not but if you had you'd understand im illustrating the point that SE's previous titles have focused on group based progression developing and in these instances not until at least level 35.  Previous to these levels (seeing as how the progression was much slower) the fights were much more mindless and less strategy oriented, similar to what your video link represents.

 

So get your facts straight before you try to flip the ignorance card your easy to spot with your strawman's.

 

Oh and lastly amending my analogy to "simpler plays" is a gross misrepresentation, considering if what SE claims is to be true, these mechanics are going to completely rework the design of all fights (or sport if we are sticking to the analogy).  While i see how you point out the fact various jobs are present, a water-downed alpha with each class not having developed even through half of their progressions clearly gives you no indication of what to expect at 50 with these major mechanics in place.

 

Nice try tho

 
 
 
  daltanious

Elite Member

Joined: 4/19/08
Posts: 1943

1/16/13 12:14:36 PM#22
Original was terrible fail but I can't again barely wait to buy.
  Skuall

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/20/05
Posts: 863

1/16/13 12:23:17 PM#23
Originally posted by jskeets916
Originally posted by colddog04
Originally posted by jskeets916

Nobody is saying trust them and just play it, the only thing i'm saying is be a rational human being and wait AT LEAST until the first stage of what appears to be a 3 month long beta (in which feedback and changes are obviously expected to take place) as opposed to rating a game on outdated alpha content.

 

To be blunt, wait til the game is closer to its summer release and they've released a playable state with at least half of the levels and combat mechanics included before you rate a game ?/10...

Oh yes and http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=RC94IMXyDQQ

 

^ That link is of an archer doing a solo levequest at rank 20 in alpha... you really are even more ignorant than you sound when you post links such as this clearly furthering my point that you jumping the gun to bash something instead of evaluating the gameplay and combat system which is party-based based on a video of someone playing solo.

 

A more simpler analagy, it would be similar to judging the NFL after watching wide receiver drills... One facet of a group dynamic sport which if like i mentioned earlier, you had played ffxi more than a month you would understand that is more akin to what you can expect.

 

I think you're being just a tad defensive. I did qualify all of my statements with "so far," "at least right now," and other similar things. Perhaps just chill and realize it's some guy on the internet expressing their opinion about what they've seen so far. Your baby will be ok if it's a good game no matter what anyone says.

 

We'll see how it turns out. Hopefully the combat gets some major upgrades and you are correct that it will add a lot more depth to the strategic quality of combat between now and release. As I've stated before, I'm still skeptical that it's going to be this great and interesting thing based on what we've seen so far and what they've said is coming down the pipeline for the combat.

 

I also think the analogy would be more like watching a high school football game with the simpler plays and more straightforward offense/defense schemes and that the game needs some more time to bake and become their NFL version of it. 

 

Edit: Also, watch the end of the video I linked. It is large group combat. So please stop being insulting by telling me I'm ignorant when you are obviously ignorant of the content of the video I posted. I mean... damn, at least watch it once before acting like that.

Hmmm tough don't know where to start, but i guess i'd note that i've watched the video (several times before you linked it) and how many times do i need to point out that they are level 20... in alpha...?

 

Is that a complicated concept?

 

Furthermore what class did you play in ffxi? did you get anything 75? Refresh, SATA, these things mean anything to you?

Probably not but if you had you'd understand im illustrating the point that SE's previous titles have focused on group based progression developing and in these instances not until at least level 35.  Previous to these levels (seeing as how the progression was much slower) the fights were much more mindless and less strategy oriented, similar to what your video link represents.

 

So get your facts straight before you try to flip the ignorance card your easy to spot with your strawman's.

 

Oh and lastly amending my analogy to "simpler plays" is a gross misrepresentation, considering if what SE claims is to be true, these mechanics are going to completely rework the design of all fights (or sport if we are sticking to the analogy).  While i see how you point out the fact various jobs are present, a water-downed alpha with each class not having developed even through half of their progressions clearly gives you no indication of what to expect at 50 with these major mechanics in place.

 

Nice try tho

 
 
 

 

if battles are going to be kinda like FFXIV 1.0 or FFXI ....good!

 

and yeah FFXI had awesome boos battles (the 1 i remember the most was the batlle on the ship (cop 6.4 ) what an awesome fight! , 1 boss after another w/o resting !  1 of the most hard fight i have done in a mmorpg , and im talking "prenerf" , and i wasnt even the healer or the tank , i was playing a Smn at the time so much fun

 

  Alders

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/28/10
Posts: 1763

I cannot fiddle but I can make a great state of a small city.

1/16/13 12:33:55 PM#24

Except every battle in XI was terrible, minus Ixion and PW.  When the combat mechanics limit you so much, you get what we got though.

I really feel like SE has finally caught up to combat from 3-4 years ago.  I'm fine with slower combat but I' m also personally bored with stationary combat.

I'd like to see more casting and ability use on the move and less fancy animations for self buffs that just take up combat time.

It's definitely a step in the right direction and i am impressed, but it's not there yet.

  znaiika

Novice Member

Joined: 1/31/12
Posts: 203

1/16/13 4:48:03 PM#25
Originally posted by vandal5627
Originally posted by Scellow
An Amazing game , with an old-school boutton masher gameplay ... so sad
 
This game need an Action gameplay !
 

 Name a game where you don't mash buttons to play :)

 

Skyrim is the one, I hope ESO would be similar as Skyrim.

 

  Alberel

Novice Member

Joined: 12/02/09
Posts: 1121

1/16/13 5:40:10 PM#26
Originally posted by znaiika
Originally posted by vandal5627
Originally posted by Scellow
An Amazing game , with an old-school boutton masher gameplay ... so sad
 
This game need an Action gameplay !
 

 Name a game where you don't mash buttons to play :)

 

Skyrim is the one, I hope ESO would be similar as Skyrim.

 

You're aware that ESO is just a generic MMO set in the TES universe right? Beyond the lore it has nothing at all in common with the single player games so I wouldn't get your hopes up for similar combat.

  drivendawn

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/17/11
Posts: 1024

1/16/13 6:44:24 PM#27
Originally posted by Alberel
Originally posted by znaiika
Originally posted by vandal5627
Originally posted by Scellow
An Amazing game , with an old-school boutton masher gameplay ... so sad
 
This game need an Action gameplay !
 

 Name a game where you don't mash buttons to play :)

 

Skyrim is the one, I hope ESO would be similar as Skyrim.

 

You're aware that ESO is just a generic MMO set in the TES universe right? Beyond the lore it has nothing at all in common with the single player games so I wouldn't get your hopes up for similar combat.

Actually it is action combat just with a small hot bar and you can still break in homes and steal things while hid.

  Yaevindusk

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/05/10
Posts: 1276

Logic, reason and fact do not supersede human nature. Ignorance reigns without justice.

1/16/13 9:44:52 PM#28

 

Samurai and Ninja will probably be so fun to play with this combat when they are released in the patch Yoshi-P spoke of.  :3

When faced with strife or discontent, the true nature of a man is brought forth. It is then when we see the character of the individual. It is then we are able to tell if he is mature enough to grin and bare it, or subject his fellow man to his complaints and woes.

  MagikrorriM

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/14/10
Posts: 174

1/17/13 12:10:29 PM#29
I think TSW has spoiled me on being able to cast while moving, it seems to make combat smoother as a caster, instead of run,stop, cast, repeat.
  Gibocracy

Novice Member

Joined: 1/18/13
Posts: 17

1/18/13 10:14:42 PM#30
you know what he meant.
  Kajidourden

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/20/13
Posts: 314

2/20/13 3:47:33 AM#31

Cerebral combat is the thing that kept me going in ffxi.  I've played nearly everything to hit the market up to GW2, and nothing has compared combat wise.  Slower?  Sure.  Better?  Personally I think so.  

I look at it this way: I'll use EQ2 as a reference here since that was the other mmo i played the most.  I would rather have 10 skills over the course of 75 levels than to have 300 skills over the course of 50 levels, half of which are just upgrades of prior abilities.  The new abilities you get though never really change the dynamics of your class, if you're an assassin (as i was) you're still pretty much spamming backstab/detaunt skills.

 In ffxi, when you got to a certain level and obtained certain skills (depending on the job), it was a DYNAMIC change to the way you conduct combat entirely.  Best example I can think of?  THF.  Lets say you already have your subjub stuff done for this scenario.

So, you're probably going /WAR at first, using a shield and a sword/dagger.  At this point you're pretty much just a little extra DPS and skillchain creator, but you're also an "Oh shit!  The tank went down/lost hate" contingency, provoke and perfect dodge can potentially save your parties ass.  

Then you get sneak attack.  At which point you're pairing a weaponskill with it in order to maximize burst damage.

Then you have /NIN and you add in pulling with shadows/status bolts to your functionality.

Then comes Trick Attack, which in essence makes you bust DPS/crowd control (ish) in the sense that you're responsibility is now A) Pulling and B) Keeping hate on the tank.

In no other game do you get that same sense of progression.  Because in any other game your progression is meaningless in any sense other than "Cool, i got the stronger version of my previous skill" or "Cool, now my DPS is increased".

All of this is due to the nature of ffxi combat.  Slower, but everything is intentional, and everything has a role in evolving your class AND your role in combat.  With that said, i love the new animations, their speed and fluiditiy that i've seen in the videos for 2.0 thus far...I just hope that same dynamic combat isn't foregone in favor of the EQ style skill spam.  You could definitely increase the pacing of the combat from ffxi while maintaing the core of what made it great, again i just hope that it remains after 2.0.

As far as the whole moving during casting thing goes....my thing is, who cares?  Unless you were to implement something like D and D's spells, where lets say you cast fireball...you can't just cast that into the middle of the fray, or you'll screw up your party just as much as your enemies, or lighting bolt...you cant cast that haphazrdly, you would have to look around and see which direction you cast it so that you dont harm your party memebers, and so that you dont bounce it off a nearby surface and ave it come rigt back at you, AND you have to make sure you're not going to pull another mob in the line of sight of the one you're fighting..  So, if that's the kind of dynamic spell casting changes we're talking about, then yes i agree, otherwise it's pointless.

 

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