Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by steamtank

He wants an MMO where the OPTIMAL playstyle is still hard.

There are plenty. Do hard mode raid in WOW. Don't tell me it is a cake walk. I have done hard mode raiding for a while. It is like 3 hour practice every week for many weeks.

He wants an MMO where community is formed due to game mechanics. Everyone levels slow enough that you can actually meet people and if you go ofline for the night still be in level range to play with those people the next day.

or .. you speed up leveling so most players have max level characters. So if you meet someone at max level, you are in level range to play with the next day.

Because he wears crafted gear doesn't mean that gear is relevant. If it doesn't have a chance of being of equal value in its level range to found gear it is not relevant. If you have to be lvl 30 to craft lvl 20 gear.. that gear is not relevant. If no one wants to buy your gear beause you had to make 600 pieces in order to get to crafting lvl 31 and EVERYONE else is crafting that same piece 600 times none will ever sell for anything other than materials.

 Define relevant. If by relevant, you mean BIS? If you look at WOW AH prices, crafted stuff can make a profit. I have done that before. It is not BIS by any chance (except may be one or two piece), but not zero value either. Certainly not as good as top raid gear .. but that is not what "relevant" means.

i understand this desire. i also agree with it.

The point is that these desires can be fulfilled, with a bit of creativity, in many modern MMOs.

 

bahahaha. WoW hard mode.   3 hours practice?  BAHAHAHAHAHAHA, THAT IT? thats not hard... thats half of 1 play session

why would i want to speed up max level? if i wanted that i would just play a game that didnt have a level on my character

Again, WoW is your only reference. I made money on the WoW AH system. but i wouldnt be caught dead wearing crafted gear inthat game. Its worthless once you hit that Max level you are so keen to be at

I am a min/max player. I like HARD games that inspire community development. If I can solo my way to being awesome then I will just play an RPG and not worry about a sub fee. I sub to play with people, because making comrades and playing with them INCREASES the enjoyment and profitablity of your character in the game

Originally posted by steamtank

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by steamtank

He wants an MMO where the OPTIMAL playstyle is still hard.

There are plenty. Do hard mode raid in WOW. Don't tell me it is a cake walk. I have done hard mode raiding for a while. It is like 3 hour practice every week for many weeks.

He wants an MMO where community is formed due to game mechanics. Everyone levels slow enough that you can actually meet people and if you go ofline for the night still be in level range to play with those people the next day.

or .. you speed up leveling so most players have max level characters. So if you meet someone at max level, you are in level range to play with the next day.

Because he wears crafted gear doesn't mean that gear is relevant. If it doesn't have a chance of being of equal value in its level range to found gear it is not relevant. If you have to be lvl 30 to craft lvl 20 gear.. that gear is not relevant. If no one wants to buy your gear beause you had to make 600 pieces in order to get to crafting lvl 31 and EVERYONE else is crafting that same piece 600 times none will ever sell for anything other than materials.

 Define relevant. If by relevant, you mean BIS? If you look at WOW AH prices, crafted stuff can make a profit. I have done that before. It is not BIS by any chance (except may be one or two piece), but not zero value either. Certainly not as good as top raid gear .. but that is not what "relevant" means.

i understand this desire. i also agree with it.

The point is that these desires can be fulfilled, with a bit of creativity, in many modern MMOs.

 

bahahaha. WoW hard mode.   3 hours practice?  BAHAHAHAHAHAHA, THAT IT? thats not hard... thats half of 1 play session

Please link your hardmode achievements. Thx.

As if we are so far into the future that current MMOs are antiques.

It's like saying the 2013 model of a car is modern but the 2010 one is not.

Rather the covered wagon is not modern, and all cars are.

All MMOs are modern, Go is a game that is not.

All this talk of "next generation" and yet that really means most times "hey we are launching a game"

Originally posted by kadepsyson

As if we are so far into the future that current MMOs are antiques.

It's like saying the 2013 model of a car is modern but the 2010 one is not.

Rather the covered wagon is not modern, and all cars are.

All MMOs are modern, Go is a game that is not.

 

All this talk of "next generation" and yet that really means most times "hey we are launching a game"

the video game (and mmo market) right now are at war for our entertainment money. and like real wars thats when the most innovational technologies are introduced to 1up the competition.

That being said... I would go back and play CoX if it was still active, even at its $15 a month.  Mostly for the social aspect, that community was great

I think I have figured it out.

Everytime I see a thread like this one, somebody feels the need to instantly list the exact opposite features that the OP wishes for.

I believe that those folks are scared that once an epic modern sandbox game with an oldschool design philosophy becomes a huge success that their friends will flock to a game that they themselves do not care for.

Then of course once a deep meaningful MMO experience becomes en vouge, all the development money will flow that direction further reducing the amount and quality of the style of games that the contrarian types do currently enjoy.

I just can't see any other reason to keep shooting other people's wishes down.

Originally posted by paulytheb

I just can't see any other reason to keep shooting other people's wishes down.

And you surmise "that's insufficient"?

I mean, we are on the internet.

Occam posits another explanation: this trend you believe you perceive may just be observational bias

Originally posted by paulytheb

I think I have figured it out.

Everytime I see a thread like this one, somebody feels the need to instantly list the exact opposite features that the OP wishes for.

I believe that those folks are scared that once an epic modern sandbox game with an oldschool design philosophy becomes a huge success that their friends will flock to a game that they themselves do not care for.

Then of course once a deep meaningful MMO experience becomes en vouge, all the development money will flow that direction further reducing the amount and quality of the style of games that the contrarian types do currently enjoy.

 

I just can't see any other reason to keep shooting other people's wishes down.

 

 

 

 Why do you think thats what they are doing?

One person lists their wish list, another person lists theirs.  They want different things.  If it's ok for one person to do it, its ok for the other.

Thats it, nothing more. 

Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

Originally posted by paulytheb

I think I have figured it out.

Everytime I see a thread like this one, somebody feels the need to instantly list the exact opposite features that the OP wishes for.

I believe that those folks are scared that once an epic modern sandbox game with an oldschool design philosophy becomes a huge success that their friends will flock to a game that they themselves do not care for.

Then of course once a deep meaningful MMO experience becomes en vouge, all the development money will flow that direction further reducing the amount and quality of the style of games that the contrarian types do currently enjoy.

 

I just can't see any other reason to keep shooting other people's wishes down.

 

 

 

 Why do you think thats what they are doing?

One person lists their wish list, another person lists theirs.  They want different things.  If it's ok for one person to do it, its ok for the other.

Thats it, nothing more. 

My wishlist for pauly is for a more readable font color, especially since my vision is color deficient.

Originally posted by kadepsyson

My wishlist for pauly is for a more readable font color, especially since my vision is color deficient.

My wishlish for the board in general is to get rid of non-link colors.

But then folks would just revert to ALLCAPS for attention, like the 80s, I suppose.

Wow all, thanks for the replies.  To clarify:

1.  Wow hard mode doesn't really meet what I'm looking for.  Yes, I want more difficult content but I'd also like differeing content.  Running the same linear dungeons over and over again isn't fun for me.  Neither is reading the same book 3 times in a row or watching the same episode of 30 Rock 30 times.  I played WoW... we did some harde modes.  In the end it was just too much repetition. 

2.  Why slow the leveling curve?  I believe this to be pretty straight forward.  I'm looking for a world to "live in" as much as or more than a game to play through.  We rush to "end game" as if it is an important accomplishment then run the same few dungeons and raids over and over ad nauseum.  It isn't about the idea that journey is more important or better than destination.  It's about the fact that once you reach the destination you're largely done.  If we played life the way we played MMO's we'd rush to old age then quit life in hopes that we will be ressurected in a better / different life which we would also rush through.  I'm looking for the long term commitment version of an MMO rather than the speed dating version.  Speed dating has it's adherents.  I'm just not one of them.

3.  Someone asked me to define "relevant crafting".  I had felt that I'd done a pretty good job of that in the first post but I'll give it another go.  Relevant means that at the level it is crafted it is 80 - 120% as useful as non crafted gear for the same level.  It would also be helpful to be able to craft the gear at the level it is inteded to be worn at.  I would also like it quite a bit if the gear wasn't outstripped by other crafted or dropped gear 15 minutes later.  I want to feel like I accomplished something when I craft a piece of gear for myself.  Back in the early days of EQ i crafed spidersilk armor on my necro.  It took me a few days to gather together all the items that I needed and when I finally had a full set on it was ugly and the only stat was armor but it was SOMETHING when a lot of characters of the same level had nothing in those slots.  I could take an extra hit or two now and it felt great!  I didn't replace that gear for quite a while.  Nothing better dropped.  In early EQ it was more about the adventure and exploration than about getting gear to kill bigger things to get better gear... etc.  I'm looking for an adventure not a treadmill and crafting useful gear (even things like food, and lightsources, etc) is part of that adventure.

I like crafting, hmm maybe thats not entirely true, sometimes it makes me want to gauge my eyes out.  Rather I like being self-sufficient and crafting is part of that.

It is a very very fine like between good crafting, and a horrible grind, and sometimes just depends on my mood. 

One thing that I have noticed about games with "good crafting" that I absolutely hate is the level requirements.  I"ll use Istaria as an example.  My latest dragon is lvl 15 adventurere and now 32 crafter.  At level 20 (either crafting or adventurer) I was able to use a next tier scale pack (back pack for dragons) but I can't craft it till 36, at which point their is only 4 more levels till I can use the next tier scale pack which I can't craft till 60 and I allready use the next pack.

This makes crafting IMO completely pointless.  Why craft something I can't use.  Let me be able to craft it when I can use it, or relatively soon after I use it, not when it's completely pointless.  It just bugs me.

Thats what I want out of MMO's, usefull crafting (no not no dropped loot just usefull crafting).

i agree with all of these with some provisous teleports should be fewer  yes but i dotn want to spend half as hour getting somewhere but we  definatly  shouldnt have multiple teleports within one zone

I dont mind makeing crap to skill up tradeskills but rare stuff u actually want to use should have a  huge skillup bonus

Originally posted by dbstylin34
what i want to see is fleshed out quests, to be honest, id rather 100 lengthy quests that are challenging,fleshed out with a few head scratches than anything the industry offers in the way of "quests" the best ive seen so far are tsw's where the quests generally have multiple tiers, but it still doesnt come close to what im envisioning, some features, i know are asking to much in mmo's but whats a game without those goals?

you have obviously never done  everquests epics or eq2s heritage quests

everquests old school quests ... some of them dont even  have clues as to their trigger words no handy () around em

Solution let players  write quests ive heard far to often that it takes devs to long to design quests bull pucky but   let players write it out

devs could  change what mob it drops off of so the designer doesnt have unfair advantage

they could even give players kits  which along with a  create a zone feature the ability to design fights

The quest would be done just need polishing, and review is it challenging enough  is it good enough? have player volunteers put it through a  1st review to weed out the crap

The program i envision  could tell how long you spent working on it ( and not  idle afk time) and wouldnt even submit quicky done junk. voila  epic quests on the cheap

Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

I like crafting, hmm maybe thats not entirely true, sometimes it makes me want to gauge my eyes out.  Rather I like being self-sufficient and crafting is part of that.

It is a very very fine like between good crafting, and a horrible grind, and sometimes just depends on my mood. 

One thing that I have noticed about games with "good crafting" that I absolutely hate is the level requirements.  I"ll use Istaria as an example.  My latest dragon is lvl 15 adventurere and now 32 crafter.  At level 20 (either crafting or adventurer) I was able to use a next tier scale pack (back pack for dragons) but I can't craft it till 36, at which point their is only 4 more levels till I can use the next tier scale pack which I can't craft till 60 and I allready use the next pack.

This makes crafting IMO completely pointless.  Why craft something I can't use.  Let me be able to craft it when I can use it, or relatively soon after I use it, not when it's completely pointless.  It just bugs me.

Thats what I want out of MMO's, usefull crafting (no not no dropped loot just usefull crafting).

but how wouold you prevent twinking then theres got to be some limits

Originally posted by Psychow

As to the OP's original post: I can do without the darkness. I never really liked them in other games.  Since I'm playing a game, I don't have my other senses such as smell, surround sound, and spidey sense to enhance my surroundings while in the darkness. I want to play the game, not stumble into trees.

 

The other two on the wish list I agree with completely. Slower leveling curve and worthwhile crafting would be great.

smelll would be fun in a game imagine you just got don slaughtering 50 bazillion giant  hellrats in a dank sewer now most people wont want to sell  its not really smell but its simulated

 senses in a  game might not be impossible to i heard sony has ways to put senses into your brain like suddenly you smell somethibng burning  and it doesnt req  surgery

Interactive crafting...if possible. Honestly cannot recall which MMORPG I tried that had this (Maybe AoC?), but on the same level...

Say you want to be a Blacksmith and make armor. First...crafted gear should be better than raid gear. If not in stats (To keep raiding worth while), in looks. Allow the blacksmith to customize armor looks. Interchange parts and dabble with color. Maybe they could even be able to change the looks of that raid armor you just got to give it a unique look.

Sure, it would take a huge parts library surplus and a color palette to allow for this...hence why IDK if it could be done or not...but would be nice.

But make the Blacksmith able to stand at the forge and use the tools of the Blacksmith. Depending on many factors (Tool used, ingredients added, forge temperatures, etc.) you can succeed or fail, and have different outcomes.

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by Icewhite

/snip

LOL ...

That is the other thing that mysterifies me. If people don't like MMOs, why do they come here? It is not like there is a lack of other things to do.

This can't be for real?!?!?!?

I think its the most ironic thing I've read all my life.

/facepalm

You need help dude... bad. There's clearly something wrong with your thoughts processes.

On Twinking:

I've always felt that twinking is really only an issue in PvP environments.  In a purely PvE environment (which after 5 year on a pvp server tends to be my preference now) twinking isn't really relevant.  So what if that guy over there that I'm not playing with can power through the mobs.  So what if his "advantage" lets him level up speedily.  Speedy leveling up isn't the point.  Enjoying the content is the point.  We saw all kinds of twinking in EQ back in the day.  Warriors running around in fungi tunics, etc.  It wasn't a problem.  Sometimes if we were having trouble with a bit of content we would even see if that warrior would give us a hand.  In PvE I've never really been effected in a negative way by a twink.  Not ever.  Does the twink have an advantage in killing the mobs?  Yes.  Does that really effect your game play?  No.  It can, however, effect your attitude if you let it.

That said, PvP is a bit of a different story.  Twinks in PvP obviously have an advantage over others of the same level that actually effects them.  Very few people think it's fun to have their warriors two shotted by a cleric that is three levels lower than they are.  That DOES effect game play.  I don't have a clear answer for how to deal with twinking in PvP.  In arena style it would seem pretty easy to make a kind of gear score and do matching based on it.  In open world that is a bit harder.  You could potentially make a system where the more people someone kills without dying they more valuable they become to kill and could even indicate their value with an icon floating over their heads.  In this way twinks would become targets in OW PvP pretty quickly.

Moral of the story:  In PvE just let the twinking happen.  No worries.  In PvP you would need some kind of systemic limiter to overcome the advantage.

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by delete5230

Sure don't we all,

Well at least us true mmo players, not the ones that jumped in because mmos are now attracting the single game player.

Slow leveling helps to make friends.  That friend that you made at level 25 is now level 47 all because you had to go to work the next day and he did not.

"true" mmo players .. that makes me laugh. There is no true anything. MMOs are just entertainment products that changes based on market desire.

but people who have the need to call themselves 'true anything' are typically in need of much confidence, convincing, and are merely grasping for an identity.

please, don't take this away from him, because if he had much else he would not require the title of a 'true MMO player' to find comfort with his identity.

but yes, you are totally right.