Originally posted by Cecropia

Originally posted by Rydeson
I just wish devs would either create a PvP game or a PvE game... You can NOT have both co-exist with great success at the same time..  It's impossible to balance..

What? 

EVE online, buddy. You know, the successful MMO that thas been steadily growing in popularity since 2003; something that most MMOs cannot claim. The PVPers have the perfect symbiotic relationship with the PVEers. CCP has exposed the fact that both can and should be intertwined. It just has to be done right, of course.

That really depends on your definition of "done right" and "symbiotic relationship".  I tried EVE multiple times and could not continue to play the game due to the way PvP completely dominates the PvE aspects of the game and is in fact a parasite that poisons the PvE side of EVE. 

Originally posted by g4m3sh4rk

Originally posted by Rydeson
I just wish devs would either create a PvP game or a PvE game... You can NOT have both co-exist with great success at the same time..  It's impossible to balance..

Just out of curiosity have you heard of Wow? Just a question not trying to be mean.

Horde VS. Alliance is NOT PvE .. fyi.. The game was designed to pit one side vs. the other.. Now when I can freely group with ANY race I want, then come talk to me :) 

Originally posted by Cecropia

Originally posted by Rydeson
I just wish devs would either create a PvP game or a PvE game... You can NOT have both co-exist with great success at the same time..  It's impossible to balance..

What? 

EVE online, buddy. You know, the successful MMO that thas been steadily growing in popularity since 2003; something that most MMOs cannot claim. The PVPers have the perfect symbiotic relationship with the PVEers. CCP has exposed the fact that both can and should be intertwined. It just has to be done right, of course.

Sorry.. Epic Fail.. Eve does not give me the 100% FREEDOM to go or do anything without the fear of being ganked by another player...  Try again

Originally posted by Rydeson
I just wish devs would either create a PvP game or a PvE game... You can NOT have both co-exist with great success at the same time..  It's impossible to balance..

Originally posted by Rydeson

Originally posted by Cecropia

Originally posted by Rydeson
I just wish devs would either create a PvP game or a PvE game... You can NOT have both co-exist with great success at the same time..  It's impossible to balance..

What? 

EVE online, buddy. You know, the successful MMO that thas been steadily growing in popularity since 2003; something that most MMOs cannot claim. The PVPers have the perfect symbiotic relationship with the PVEers. CCP has exposed the fact that both can and should be intertwined. It just has to be done right, of course.

Sorry.. Epic Fail.. Eve does not give me the 100% FREEDOM to go or do anything without the fear of being ganked by another player...  Try again

Growing to less than 500K? That kind of snail growth is not success .. just non-failure. Maple Story is a success. LOL is a success. WOT is a success. Eve .. not so much in comparison.

Originally posted by eddieg50

   Especially if you do not want to spend much money.

 

   You have 2 GREAT story mmo's in TSW and SWTOR. TSW gives you great graphics, story , cut scenes, production, mystery, puzzles. Combine this with SWTOR which gives you GREAT story, production, cut scenes, combat, and good PvP. These are the two best story MMO's ever made!

   Love SWTOR but do not like their space game, then just download Star Trek Online, This game has improved massively in the last 2 years and offers a really fun space game and and average but functional ground game, if you switch back and forth from this to SWTOR than you have the best of both worlds.

     Want a traditional MMO with a little extra? Than just download Vanguard, it is a little creaky under the hood, but this baby has it all including Diplomacy a fun card game. There are not to many Worlds as open as this.   Want something even more traditional eq is now going F2P from what I have read

    Dont like the slightly creaky combat of Vanguard or TSW--------Big News---Tera with its great combat is going F2P.  Dont get me wrong the stories in TSW and SWTOR are Great but like anything else it can burn you out. If you want to come home and just KILL< KILL< KILL than tera is your game and the Pvp aint bad either.

     Hey how bout a traditional game with great story, graphics, Lore and exploring with good crafting ----Yup LOTRO. I am not sure but Lotro may be one of the Grand daddys of F2P and they keep churning out quality content to this day.

   Love the theme park but want it modern with very good Pvp- Just get Gw2, beautifull colors and great exploring, pretty good combat and plenty of PvP make this a game that is really fun, me being an oldie I like GW1 slightly better as I like its PvP a bit more but both games are fun

Tired of these darn themeparks and just want to play an Sandobox, than just download Xyson. You will find yourself in the middle of nowhere and you know what that means Sandbox Heaven, explore! the world is huge

     These are just some of the games that offer either F2P or just pay a little  he,he ,he. On my computer i have all these games and more on my hd and play them all plus eq2, aoc and aion, Of these 3 Aion gives you the best bang for your buck as eq2 and aoc while fine games have really bad F2P options

I do agree with you, but most people on mmorpg.com seem to have grown tired of the genre...

Originally posted by eddieg50

Originally posted by Enerzeal

I shall now debunk this post, MMO at a time.

SWTOR - Broken F2P model, the worst end game I have ever laid eyes on. Right now I couldn't recommend this to anyone. 300 million to create this? All the money spent on voice overs and well acted cut scenes. I love good story, but save it for my single player games, if I wanted to be sucked in I would play Farcry 3, Metal Gear Solid, Final Fantasy.

TSW - This game is better than SWTOR, it's puzzles are somewhat engaging, and its classless progression is nice. However it suffers from broken unbalanced pvp, no raids, terrible hardcore mode 5 man dungeons. I could suggest this to someone however, so  not so far off the mark on this one.

Vanguard - Ohh this game could of had it all, but I could never suggest to someone a game that has not had a significant update in about five years. It lacks polish in so many areas, I love what Vanguard could and should be, and perhaps supporting it is a way to get it to that place, but see it for what its free to play model is please, a cash grab. in a dying game.

Tera - No complaints on this suggestion, great game, but do not play down its pvp which is by far its most entertaining element. If you don't like pvp, then I would in all honesty suggest something like Final Fantasy XI, but in this list you are only suggesting F2P games, so EQ2.

GW2 - No opinion on this one, I haven't played it. Don't like its feature list, leveling up to access new zones and armor skins doesn't sound very appealing to me, and its pvp isn't FFA or Full loot and doesn't hold a candle to Tera.

Xyson - How dare you recommend this game to anyone. As far as sandoxes go, why not recommend Mortal Online while you are at it. Simple fact, you cannot recommend a single sandbox game right now for free, the best sandbox at the moment is Eve Online which can be free if you play like a boss, but don't go selling Xyson to anyone.

On your last few suggestions I'll do these in quick fire.

Aion - Very Grindy, very much dying - play at your own peril, this one's days are numbered folks.

AoC - Pay to win nightmare, you can subscribe to this mess, and still have to pay for items off the shop to compete, this one is a dud, a mess of a game that held so much potential.

EQ2 - you need to put money down for this game, otherwise the limitations are just to great, if you get lucky and the class you want to play with the race you want to play is on offer then fantastic, I have an SOE all acess pass, so I play it right now but I find the constant immersion breaking mounts, and cosmetic items to be ruining my fun.

 

   LOL---you did not de bunk but rather expressed your opinion, that is what is great about MMORPG.com, people can come on read someones post express their own opinion and be totaly wrong. But I do appreciate the difference of opinion

 So you agree your opinion is totally wrong then?

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by Rydeson

Originally posted by Cecropia

Originally posted by Rydeson
I just wish devs would either create a PvP game or a PvE game... You can NOT have both co-exist with great success at the same time..  It's impossible to balance..

What? 

EVE online, buddy. You know, the successful MMO that thas been steadily growing in popularity since 2003; something that most MMOs cannot claim. The PVPers have the perfect symbiotic relationship with the PVEers. CCP has exposed the fact that both can and should be intertwined. It just has to be done right, of course.

Sorry.. Epic Fail.. Eve does not give me the 100% FREEDOM to go or do anything without the fear of being ganked by another player...  Try again

Growing to less than 500K? That kind of snail growth is not success .. just non-failure. Maple Story is a success. LOL is a success. WOT is a success. Eve .. not so much in comparison.

You always leave out Farmville. 

BEST AND MOST SUCCESSFUL MMO EVER!!!

Originally posted by Grixxitt

 

You always leave out Farmville. 

BEST AND MOST SUCCESSFUL MMO EVER!!!

hmm .. it is a "social network" game, by definition. But certainly it was (i dunno if it still is) certainly more successful than Eve, and many MMOs.

And don't forget LOL, which is bigger than WOW. If you want to include Farmville, may as well count LOL.

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by Grixxitt

 

You always leave out Farmville. 

BEST AND MOST SUCCESSFUL MMO EVER!!!

hmm .. it is a "social network" game, by definition. But certainly it was (i dunno if it still is) certainly more successful than Eve, and many MMOs.

And don't forget LOL, which is bigger than WOW. If you want to include Farmville, may as well count LOL.

Well you count LOL and D3 in any MMO discussion, you leave yourself open to FarmVille.

Originally posted by ObiClownobi

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by Grixxitt

 

You always leave out Farmville. 

BEST AND MOST SUCCESSFUL MMO EVER!!!

hmm .. it is a "social network" game, by definition. But certainly it was (i dunno if it still is) certainly more successful than Eve, and many MMOs.

And don't forget LOL, which is bigger than WOW. If you want to include Farmville, may as well count LOL.

Well you count LOL and D3 in any MMO discussion, you leave yourself open to FarmVille.

Yes, and i am more than happy to discuss farmville. However, do note that i did, from time to time, note that D3 is not a MMO but the playstyle is close.

In terms of farmville, since you don't kill stuff there, i would not say the same.

So i suppose it is true that farmville is a very successful non-combat MMO.

Originally posted by Theodwulf

   For game makers it is a golden age. They are able to slap together a turd of a game and make a pile of money. It is a dark age for the MMO  consumer. The Market is driven by unethical companies that have no qualms about selling a sub-standard product. They are more interested in the "quick buck" than long term profits and readily destroy any good reputation they once had to acheive this. They are supported by legions of online shills who are payed to lie about..i mean hype these  games.   How does this story end? The consumer smartens the heck up and spends their entertainment dollars else where.  I have accepted that the industry is incapable of putting out anything of value and moved onto FTP games and offline activities..

 

Completely agree with this one.

Originally posted by Loktofeit

Originally posted by adam_nox

Originally posted by Scot

Oh our rosy spectacles types have been with us for ages. They see everything about modern MMO’s through rosy glasses, it is all wonderful and so on. Its sort of like fan boys but for the whole industry. :)

While the other half wears them for mmos of long ago.  WoW becoming one of them. 

Per thread topic, the golden age will start when a good immersive long-term mmo is actually released.  Not something that entertains for a month or two then gets old.

• Second Life
• Ultima Online
• Everquest
• Dark Age of Camelot
• A Tale in the Desert (ATITD)
• There
• Puzzle Pirates
• EVE Online
• Project Entropia (now Entropia Universe)
• ToonTown

I'd say that fits the description you just gave. There are others from that period that could be added to that list, too. The platform was evolving and experimenting with new ideas.

 

Now, if we want to accept the PBBGs, MMORTS, Action RPGs and the other variations of MMOs under the MMO umbrella then I would say we are currently looking at the golden age now... but I'm not sure everyone here is on board with such a blashpemous level of inclusion.

 

 

YOU SAY IT BRO! :=)

Originally posted by Rydeson

Originally posted by Cecropia

Originally posted by Rydeson
I just wish devs would either create a PvP game or a PvE game... You can NOT have both co-exist with great success at the same time..  It's impossible to balance..

What? 

EVE online, buddy. You know, the successful MMO that thas been steadily growing in popularity since 2003; something that most MMOs cannot claim. The PVPers have the perfect symbiotic relationship with the PVEers. CCP has exposed the fact that both can and should be intertwined. It just has to be done right, of course.

Sorry.. Epic Fail.. Eve does not give me the 100% FREEDOM to go or do anything without the fear of being ganked by another player...  Try again

Unless you are the only one playing, such a system cannot exist, at least not in a universally enjoyable form, as the places you want to go and the things you want to do will most certainly conflict with where others want to go and what they want to do, no?

No, just no. MMORPG were about creating virtual worlds which you live in rather than being the center of the world where you are the hero, savior etc. That idea has been hijacked by big money corps who are taking a single player game and putting it on a central server and then label it an MMORPG.

And at the same time there isn't a single well funded, triple A sandbox MMORPG short of Eve which is a very nische type of MMO and also years and years old.

So no, this is not the golden age of MMO's, it is the dark ages of MMO's.

Originally posted by Yamota

No, just no. MMORPG were about creating virtual worlds which you live in rather than being the center of the world where you are the hero, savior etc. That idea has been hijacked by big money corps who are taking a single player game and putting it on a central server and then label it an MMORPG.

And at the same time there isn't a single well funded, triple A sandbox MMORPG short of Eve which is a very nische type of MMO and also years and years old.

So no, this is not the golden age of MMO's, it is the dark ages of MMO's.

Says you?

There is no "virtual world" in "MMORPG" .. but the word "game" is there. No one says you have to have a virtual world. It is just games with lots of players, who can play together.

It is the golden age precisely because devs realize that they are not shackled by having to have a virtual world all the time.

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by Yamota

No, just no. MMORPG were about creating virtual worlds which you live in rather than being the center of the world where you are the hero, savior etc. That idea has been hijacked by big money corps who are taking a single player game and putting it on a central server and then label it an MMORPG.

And at the same time there isn't a single well funded, triple A sandbox MMORPG short of Eve which is a very nische type of MMO and also years and years old.

So no, this is not the golden age of MMO's, it is the dark ages of MMO's.

Says you?

There is no "virtual world" in "MMORPG" .. but the word "game" is there. No one says you have to have a virtual world. It is just games with lots of players, who can play together.

It is the golden age precisely because devs realize that they are not shackled by having to have a virtual world all the time.

Yes. That's it. Now it all makes sense. This is the reason that the genre is currently experiencing it's golden age. Wow