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World of Warcraft

World of Warcraft 

General Discussion  » Finally came back to wow and played MoP

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54 posts found
  trash656

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/18/05
Posts: 378

It is easier to Fight for Principles then it is to Live up to them.

 
OP  1/16/13 10:11:04 AM#1

I just came back and all I gotta say is wowza! they removed practicly all the features that made this MMO a great game to play back in the day with vanilla and burning crusade.

The talent system is just utterly Horrible which seems to be designed for people who are incapable of wiping their own bums. They removed class trainers so now you just aquire skills as you lvl up. The pet system could possibly be interesting to a pokemon fan, and among the other long list of features that no longer are a part of wow, but i wont list those because it's negative crap and i dont want to piss off a wow fanboi. But, To put it simply... This game is stipped down to the bone.

IMO To make this game more fun for everyone they need to stop removing features of the older versions just to make things more simple (Because the game was already simple and strait forward enough) stop trying to balance the classes and constantly removing and ujusting skills because no matter what the classes will NEVER be balanced no matter how many times they try to fix it, make things more challanging so players feel like they have worked for something and feel a sense of accomplishment. I understand that they constantly update the game and add content, but they also removed just as much as well in terms of features, and things that made the game very interesting.

 

This game was such a great and fun game back in the molten core and blackwing lair days. Eventhough 40 man raids took along time to get going, they were certinaly a lot more memorable then what they have now. It's sad and dishearting to see what they have done with this masterpeice, this is practicly no differn't then what SOE did with SWG PRE NGE. I think I have a new found hatred for Blizzard as well now, considering Diablo 3 was a simplistic version of the franchise as well.

 

R.I.P WoW

  anexpor

Novice Member

Joined: 9/16/04
Posts: 23

1/16/13 10:14:04 AM#2
I'd have to agree with you.  Which is why I dropped my sub and moved to Rift.  Maybe you should do the same :)
  trash656

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/18/05
Posts: 378

It is easier to Fight for Principles then it is to Live up to them.

 
OP  1/16/13 10:18:17 AM#3
Originally posted by anexpor
I'd have to agree with you.  Which is why I dropped my sub and moved to Rift.  Maybe you should do the same :)

thanks for reading my friend. Yes Rift, great game that is, good class spec, and customization and very indepth for a themepark, how are the server populations? which one would you reccomend?

  anexpor

Novice Member

Joined: 9/16/04
Posts: 23

1/16/13 10:25:44 AM#4
I currently play on Seastone which is a PvP server.  Most of the time the population is "Medium", not sure the exact number though.  I never have trouble finding a group.
  nukempro

Novice Member

Joined: 8/08/12
Posts: 80

1/16/13 10:32:58 AM#5
Originally posted by trash656

I just came back and all I gotta say is wowza! they removed practicly all the features that made this MMO a great game to play back in the day with vanilla and burning crusade.

The talent system is just utterly Horrible which seems to be designed for people who are incapable of wiping their own bums. They removed class trainers so now you just aquire skills as you lvl up. The pet system could possibly be interesting to a pokemon fan, and among the other long list of features that no longer are a part of wow, but i wont list those because it's negative crap and i dont want to piss off a wow fanboi. But, To put it simply... This game is stipped down to the bone.

IMO To make this game more fun for everyone they need to stop removing features of the older versions just to make things more simple (Because the game was already simple and strait forward enough) stop trying to balance the classes and constantly removing and ujusting skills because no matter what the classes will NEVER be balanced no matter how many times they try to fix it, make things more challanging so players feel like they have worked for something and feel a sense of accomplishment. I understand that they constantly update the game and add content, but they also removed just as much as well in terms of features, and things that made the game very interesting.

 

This game was such a great and fun game back in the molten core and blackwing lair days. Eventhough 40 man raids took along time to get going, they were certinaly a lot more memorable then what they have now. It's sad and dishearting to see what they have done with this masterpeice, this is practicly no differn't then what SOE did with SWG PRE NGE. I think I have a new found hatred for Blizzard as well now, considering Diablo 3 was a simplistic version of the franchise as well.

 

R.I.P WoW

They removed talents...and replaced it with something simpler. However it allows you to build your character in more ways then the talents did. Removing class trainers? How does being forced to run back to capital city every lvl make the game better? Good changes IMO. I agree that the pet battles are just like pokemon...not enough diversity in it yet though. So you have this long list of things but your not gonna talk about it?[mod edit]  What it comes down to is only an elite portion of the wow population used to see raid content...the people willing to commit to the raids...[mod edit]

  Morgaren

Novice Member

Joined: 3/04/09
Posts: 394

For me, the gates will open.

1/16/13 10:39:35 AM#6

I remember back when Wow first came out and they compared it to other games. This was always the complaint that was given, and it was always stated, simple to understand, hard to master.

There is complexity there if you know what your looking for. What they did was get rid of a talent system that just had people going to the internet and looking at a build that every used if you were a fury warrior. Was shadowform really needed on the talent tree for shadow priest? Who didn't take it?

They replaced it with things that are much more a personal choice, and not a required utility.

I am not heralding this game as the second coming, but I always hear this "make it harder, its too easy now" rhetoric, but truth is less is more. Ask any guy standing outside  victoria's secret.

  dcrose001

Novice Member

Joined: 5/16/06
Posts: 6

1/16/13 10:42:19 AM#7
Awesome, so blizz actually made a game that ppl with little to no skill play EVEN easier. This is good game? Combat in WoW in a nutshell: " Oh i see a mob, click auto attack, get up ,go get a latte, come back, mob is dead" wooot i feel leet. This explains why when wow babies come to AoC we have to spoon feed them , " what i have to actually DO something to kill a mob"
  Amjoco

Elite Member

Joined: 9/15/10
Posts: 3761

1/16/13 10:43:06 AM#8
Originally posted by anexpor
I'd have to agree with you.  Which is why I dropped my sub and moved to Rift.  Maybe you should do the same :)

I made a pandaren monk on the release of the expansion and leveled all the way to max and quit. It was fun, and the expansion is one of the best imho.

After saying that though, I too play Rift. Rift seems more grown up or adult oriented if you can say that about a video game. I find that there is way more to do in Rift than WoW. Daily crafting quests are one of my favorites, and they have World events that are almost always being featured. I'm not a epic-Rift player and there are so many things I don't even understand yet, and that to me makes it challenging. 

I loved WoW and still do, but for right now Rift just has more to offer in so many ways.

Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.

  User Deleted
1/16/13 10:53:59 AM#9

I was really against the new talent system when it first came out but after using it for a while, I can appreciate what the devs are trying to do. 

Let's face it, the old talent system looked like it had a lot of options but at the end of the day most players just copied whatever the flavor of the month build was for their class.   Plus, in many cases if you didn't follow the optimal builds your character simply wasn't as effective as it could be.

The new system evens out the playing field by giving each class and specialization all of the tools needed to be viable in PvP or PvE.  Then you use the talent abilities to tailor the char to your play style.  It really does make more sense than the old method.

Trust me, I loved my talent trees and being awarded points every level or two but at the end of the day most of us were just looking up builds on the internet and copying them so what's the difference.   

I can imagine that Theorycrafters would be disappointed but regular gamers should actually get more out of the new system.

  anexpor

Novice Member

Joined: 9/16/04
Posts: 23

1/16/13 11:56:31 AM#10
I'm not going to go too far into it about the talents, the whole thing leaves a bitter taste in my mouth.  To sum it up they HAVE dumbed it down, everyone knows it.  As far as Rift goes, I never run out of things to do especially while leveling up.   There are rewards for almost all aspects of the game.  I haven't gotten into the endgame much though we'll see how that turns out :)
  Kanester

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/08/10
Posts: 348

1/16/13 12:02:27 PM#11
i feel the same. looking for raid was the last straw for me.

  nukempro

Novice Member

Joined: 8/08/12
Posts: 80

1/16/13 12:21:06 PM#12
Originally posted by anexpor
I'm not going to go too far into it about the talents, the whole thing leaves a bitter taste in my mouth.  To sum it up they HAVE dumbed it down, everyone knows it.  As far as Rift goes, I never run out of things to do especially while leveling up.   There are rewards for almost all aspects of the game.  I haven't gotten into the endgame much though we'll see how that turns out :)

Dumbing it down is the wrong way to put it. It's not more or less complicated then what was their before..it's simply more intuitive and convienient...there is big difference between dumbing down and making more convienient. To top it off, my build diversity went up....that isn't possible if they dumbed it down...or have you always been able to play an arcane spec and still have frost barrier? You really shouldn't state your opinions as fact, it makes you look dumb when someone disagrees with your opinion.

  trash656

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/18/05
Posts: 378

It is easier to Fight for Principles then it is to Live up to them.

 
OP  1/17/13 7:20:24 AM#13
Originally posted by nukempro
Originally posted by anexpor
I'm not going to go too far into it about the talents, the whole thing leaves a bitter taste in my mouth.  To sum it up they HAVE dumbed it down, everyone knows it.  As far as Rift goes, I never run out of things to do especially while leveling up.   There are rewards for almost all aspects of the game.  I haven't gotten into the endgame much though we'll see how that turns out :)

Dumbing it down is the wrong way to put it. It's not more or less complicated then what was their before..it's simply more intuitive and convienient...there is big difference between dumbing down and making more convienient. To top it off, my build diversity went up....that isn't possible if they dumbed it down...or have you always been able to play an arcane spec and still have frost barrier? You really shouldn't state your opinions as fact, it makes you look dumb when someone disagrees with your opinion.

My friend, Calling someone dumb because you simply don't agree with someone also makes you look like a Bigot :) He wasn't stating anything as fact he was just stating his opinion. So let's try to be all mature adults here and be civil. Because I don't want this thread locked over something trivial. *hugs Thanks.

I'm happy you are Enjoying Mists of Pandaria as I'm sure Millions of others are, the game looks really nice and I've always loved World of Warcraft until MoP. Although that being said, Dumbing down is the deliberate diminishment of the intellectual value of something in order to make it easier for players. Which Chris Metzen has stated many times over the years. The WoW class Talent tree's were "Dumbed Down" (let me explain why) because you had a lot more you could specialized your class with, you could also multiclass into differn't tree's, which was a major highlight of the game and why players really enjoyed the game so much, because you could theorycraft and experiment with differnt multiclassed builds.

It was such an indepth system from what it is now. You had more utility and more options. The developers had stated they were redoing the talent system because they felt you had a few points left over which were useless, although the way they went about redoing the tree's was the reverse because they ended up removing any uniqueness you had left that you could do with your class, on top of that most of those old class skills are removed, so now your restricted to a set state of skills and abilitys you have no choice to choose if you want them or not. Most of the abilitys and skills that were optional either completly removed from the game for each and every class.

There is Hundreds and thousands of posts all over the internet posted by gamers and by other game developers themselves from other companys discussing about how World of Warcraft has been dumbed down over time, comparing the list of features removed while content being added in it's place. I found this information quite interesting. You should read up on it, as I found others who found the new system enjoyable such as you have found, but also agreed the system was dumbed down at the same time.

 

Thanks again for reading.

Cheers,

-Trash

  trash656

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/18/05
Posts: 378

It is easier to Fight for Principles then it is to Live up to them.

 
OP  1/17/13 8:06:26 AM#14
Originally posted by fat_taddler

I was really against the new talent system when it first came out but after using it for a while, I can appreciate what the devs are trying to do. 

Let's face it, the old talent system looked like it had a lot of options but at the end of the day most players just copied whatever the flavor of the month build was for their class.   Plus, in many cases if you didn't follow the optimal builds your character simply wasn't as effective as it could be.

The new system evens out the playing field by giving each class and specialization all of the tools needed to be viable in PvP or PvE.  Then you use the talent abilities to tailor the char to your play style.  It really does make more sense than the old method.

Trust me, I loved my talent trees and being awarded points every level or two but at the end of the day most of us were just looking up builds on the internet and copying them so what's the difference.   

I can imagine that Theorycrafters would be disappointed but regular gamers should actually get more out of the new system.

That's a good point my friend, i am a big Theorycrafter nerd, I guess I prefer more choice in my games so it makes me experiment and think. Also the way Blizzard had redone the talent system, i really believe they could of done a better job of it, I know I could of done a better job myself, as I used to make levels from scracth for Quake 3 back in the day when i was 18. See instead of removing everything they simply could of just done something like what Everquest 2 had done with theirs and instead of "removing" they "added" more to the talent system. Although I don't play EQ2, The Everquest 2's talent system is quite interesting, and more indepth then WoW's new system.

  trash656

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/18/05
Posts: 378

It is easier to Fight for Principles then it is to Live up to them.

 
OP  1/17/13 8:17:05 AM#15
Originally posted by Morgaren

I remember back when Wow first came out and they compared it to other games. This was always the complaint that was given, and it was always stated, simple to understand, hard to master.

There is complexity there if you know what your looking for. What they did was get rid of a talent system that just had people going to the internet and looking at a build that every used if you were a fury warrior. Was shadowform really needed on the talent tree for shadow priest? Who didn't take it?

They replaced it with things that are much more a personal choice, and not a required utility.

I am not heralding this game as the second coming, but I always hear this "make it harder, its too easy now" rhetoric, but truth is less is more. Ask any guy standing outside  victoria's secret.

Hard to understand? WoW was never hard to understand. It was one of the most strait forward MMO's to be developed. Your ideaology that its all baseless lies is false as well as It isn't rhetoric it's facts from players who were actually there who used too do the old raids before you played the game. Which obviously you never played Vanilla wow and raided. The original WoW, and Burning Crusade Raids were much more difficult then they are now. This isn't something stated by gamers, but also the developers themselfs. You should read up on the developer blogs and direction they had planned to take WoW before Wrath of the Lich King was released.

  trash656

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/18/05
Posts: 378

It is easier to Fight for Principles then it is to Live up to them.

 
OP  1/17/13 8:27:05 AM#16
Originally posted by kertin
 

Cry, cry, cry like a little boy  *nuff said

Do you have anything intellectual to talk about or are you just here to troll, and make 1 sentense insults that have nothing too do with the topic.

  Zorgo

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/05/05
Posts: 2210

Who did wrong? The advertiser hired to sell the game or the consumer who put faith in advertising?

1/17/13 8:27:22 AM#17
Originally posted by trash656

I just came back and all I gotta say is wowza! they removed practicly all the features that made this MMO a great game to play back in the day with vanilla and burning crusade.

The talent system is just utterly Horrible which seems to be designed for people who are incapable of wiping their own bums. They removed class trainers so now you just aquire skills as you lvl up. The pet system could possibly be interesting to a pokemon fan, and among the other long list of features that no longer are a part of wow, but i wont list those because it's negative crap and i dont want to piss off a wow fanboi. But, To put it simply... This game is stipped down to the bone.

IMO To make this game more fun for everyone they need to stop removing features of the older versions just to make things more simple (Because the game was already simple and strait forward enough) stop trying to balance the classes and constantly removing and ujusting skills because no matter what the classes will NEVER be balanced no matter how many times they try to fix it, make things more challanging so players feel like they have worked for something and feel a sense of accomplishment. I understand that they constantly update the game and add content, but they also removed just as much as well in terms of features, and things that made the game very interesting.

 

This game was such a great and fun game back in the molten core and blackwing lair days. Eventhough 40 man raids took along time to get going, they were certinaly a lot more memorable then what they have now. It's sad and dishearting to see what they have done with this masterpeice, this is practicly no differn't then what SOE did with SWG PRE NGE. I think I have a new found hatred for Blizzard as well now, considering Diablo 3 was a simplistic version of the franchise as well.

 

R.I.P WoW

Say this outloud, "One of the things that made WoW great was the ability to visit a trainer". If you didn't laugh, you should have.

Keep pushing those buttons Pavlov. If the illusion of choice keeps you warm at night. I wipe my ass just fine, thank you, and I can understand that pushing a few buttons gives me more choice than pushing 100 to end up just like everyone else.

  trash656

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/18/05
Posts: 378

It is easier to Fight for Principles then it is to Live up to them.

 
OP  1/17/13 8:30:08 AM#18
Originally posted by Zorgo
Originally posted by trash656

I just came back and all I gotta say is wowza! they removed practicly all the features that made this MMO a great game to play back in the day with vanilla and burning crusade.

The talent system is just utterly Horrible which seems to be designed for people who are incapable of wiping their own bums. They removed class trainers so now you just aquire skills as you lvl up. The pet system could possibly be interesting to a pokemon fan, and among the other long list of features that no longer are a part of wow, but i wont list those because it's negative crap and i dont want to piss off a wow fanboi. But, To put it simply... This game is stipped down to the bone.

IMO To make this game more fun for everyone they need to stop removing features of the older versions just to make things more simple (Because the game was already simple and strait forward enough) stop trying to balance the classes and constantly removing and ujusting skills because no matter what the classes will NEVER be balanced no matter how many times they try to fix it, make things more challanging so players feel like they have worked for something and feel a sense of accomplishment. I understand that they constantly update the game and add content, but they also removed just as much as well in terms of features, and things that made the game very interesting.

 

This game was such a great and fun game back in the molten core and blackwing lair days. Eventhough 40 man raids took along time to get going, they were certinaly a lot more memorable then what they have now. It's sad and dishearting to see what they have done with this masterpeice, this is practicly no differn't then what SOE did with SWG PRE NGE. I think I have a new found hatred for Blizzard as well now, considering Diablo 3 was a simplistic version of the franchise as well.

 

R.I.P WoW

Say this outloud, "One of the things that made WoW great was the ability to visit a trainer". If you didn't laugh, you should have.

 

haha actually that is pretty amusing. Although I never said that the class trainers made the game Great.

  Icewhite

Made History

Joined: 7/11/11
Posts: 6495

Pink, it's like red but not quite.

1/17/13 8:34:34 AM#19
Fear change. Doom.

Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  bliss14

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/01/11
Posts: 526

Ahh devil ether.

1/17/13 8:36:15 AM#20
Originally posted by trash656
I used to make levels from scracth for Quake 3 back in the day when i was 18.

What was your quake name?  I played for years as "Bliss".  

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