Violent Games don't kill people. Guns Don't Kill People since thats obviously what this is referring to.

Yes the school shootings were tragic, but at the same time its the schools lack of security, and they are actually just as responsible for not protecting the students, even when I was going to school always violence in school, and lack of security, and even the Teacher had a discussion about Terrorisim so I brought it up about violence and what was the school going to do to make us feel safe this was shortly after 9/11 and discussion on it. Nothing was done no security increase nothing.

Even if Guns did not exist there are many ways to commit a crime, or murder these are things that really shouldn't be talked about but consider the fact that almost everything in Real Life can be used as a weapon including everyday items, even Unarmed fighting can turn deadly.

Its not really Guns and Arcades, or Call OF Duty that makes a person violent if that were the case after over years of playing FPS games, and MMO's I would have broke down already, I remember playing games like House OF The Dead since 8 years old, Rampage, and such and never turned out to be a killer..

The Government in my opinion is always trying to find someone to blame, something happens like the Movie Threator Shooting they blame movies, games, entertainment, but really they are just as much at fault for not locking the back door properly, schools are at fault for not having armed security, and proper lockdown procedures and I mean an actual lockdown no one gets in no one gets out type of emergency and I don't mean when they yell code red and the kids get in a corner turn the lights off when all they have to do is break through a small window on the door reach their hand in and open the classroom door that isn't really going to help.

And to even be more specific in some ways even Airport security can be just as bad.

Lets talk about School Security.

Back when I went to school all the students would meet outside and have to wait 30 minutes to actually go to class during the time you were standing around talking, or sitting down. Well This was also the area where the BUS would pull in to drop students off. There were over 300 students there including myself it seem, and two unarmed security guards. What gets me is the fact that some maniac could do a driveby like in Grand Theft Auto on all of us go straight through and there is no real security there to stop them how many students could be harmed.

Yes I have played many violent games Duke Nukem, Counter Strike, and I was 7 years old when I first started playing I am now 22 almost and I learned the difference between games and Real Life long time ago. The only thing now is that violent games have made me more aware of things like I often notice lack of security, sense of security everywhere which it needs to be improved or X type of thing could occur, so its not such a bad thing of course if a person used it the wrong way it could be.

The Second Way violent games have changed me is Self Defense. Act First if being attacked ask questions later.

Guns kill people, this is true, But so do Bow & Arrows with Poision, or TranQ guns which these can be obtained easier and without a license than even a firearm. Also lets not forget our rights which is the right to have arms and the civil war that would start over this if it was actually enforced, a reason I will never support removing all firearms, one day we may need one and we won't have it for who knows why. Even Knives, or box cutters as mentioned above can be used for more than cutting your onions and opening a package.

Guns reguardless in Movies, & Games are going to be a part of everday life what is important is that kids be taught what will happen when you point a gun at someone and pull the trigger, and be taught that people can't respawn in Real Life once they are dead, and the concequence of manslaughter/murder type of thing.

Hopefully common sense will work out in this debate, and nothing too harash will come out of these tragic events.

The only thing I want to see come out of it is Security Improvements in our schools and public areas because no security is bound to be asking for trouble, sure there are Gangs, Terrorists, and Physchopaths out there but there are more who are not than those who are there is no reason to punish the 99%.

suuuuure, ban videogames and weapons to prevent violence!

what´s next?

ban cars to prevent accidents!

ban spoons to prevent fat people!

Better watch Alex Jones videos on youtube and get informed about the new world order.

´nuff said

Originally posted by Terranah

Hitler, Stalin and Mao never played video games as children, yet they collectively killed over a hundred million people. 

And the first thing they did was collecting all the guns before they commited democide on the population.

Yeah I see a game ban coming soon. Better stocking up some FPS games before the prohibition comes... :D

What a pointless thread. Neither side is going to change their views. There is no consensus possible.

Just a massive waste of valuable internet ink.

Originally posted by NorseGod

Originally posted by mythran7

Originally posted by Loktofeit

Originally posted by mythran7

 

Conservative Reasoning 101:  Guns don’t kill people, people kill people.
 

True, but does that mean we should allow average citizens to make Nuclear weapons? How about Chemical weapons? There is always going to be human beings that want to harm others, SHOULD WE MAKE IT IT EASY FOR THEM TO DO??? Or hard...hmmm

Personal responsibility doesn’t take away from collective responsibility. We protect people from all sorts of stuff in civilized society, this conservative argument is not only weak, but infantile.

Wake up, and use your brain.

And the purpose of gun ownership is to allow people to protect themselves, whether that attacker is a random thug or government. From your profile, it appears you are Canadian, so I don't expect you to understand the reasons for gun ownership in America or America's gun culture. However, to say that quote above is attributed to conservatives only is false, especially in a thread where most people agree the solution is identifying and fixing the problems in society that cause people to commit violent crimes, and I seriously doubt this is a heavily conservative crowd. :)

The collective responsibility is to get help for the people that need it. The collective responsibility is to make sure that a person doesn't reach the point of committing such atrocities. Don't blame the thermometer for the temperature.

 

 

A gun is not a thermometer. False anology. The purpose of a gun is to kill people. It has no other purpose except for hunting.  

Where I am from, and who I am, makes 0 diffrence to my argument. Ad hom's are the tactic of someone who knows their argument has lost, or they are simply ignorant of basic logic. Two options, which is it?

So the question remains: Do you want to make it easier or harder for people to kill others?

So which is it?

A firearm is a tool, like a spoon. Leave it on a table, it does nothing until someone picks it up.

Should boxcutters be banned or did they do the right thing by going after the bad guys?

 

Exactly. It's a tool.

Likewise, if a kid takes the hedge clippers and assaults someone with them, you don't look for ways to restrict and regulate hedge clippers. You find out why the person reached such a point and why their issue wasn't identified beforehand. If it was identified, then find out why nothing was done about it. If their issue was identified or known prior to the act, then you hold accountable the peopel that let him have access to the hedge clippers.

@Mythran7,

You don't see that even in your own post you started shifting the definition around?  Also, if you took anything I wrote as an ad hominem or insult, then I ask that you re-read it.

Originally posted by ShakyMo
Norsegod

Talking out your arse there.

UK is 4th most violent country in the world and usa 23rd - BULLSHIT

America has by far a higher murder rate than the UK. Including per capita. Now if you were talking about assault or something, yeah I could believe UK is higher than usa with that, but not murder.

Are you seriously saying their are only 3 countries more violent than the UK?

I can think of several right off the top of my head e.g. Afghanistan, Iraq, Egypt, south Africa, Jamaica, usa.

Where not even the worst in Europe, Naples has by far a higher murder rate than any British city, up there with places like Detroit & Washington.

You're probably looking at raw numbers. When you look at per capita numbers, the UK is a rather violent crowd.... one of the msot violent crowds, actually.

I posted a few links earlier in the thread regarding that.

Originally posted by Avengorik

Also everyone can buy guns hell even auto-riffles in the US OMG!!!! and after when a tragedy happens the president himself almost cry and say that the US need to find a solution????

I always feel bad when I see kids or people get killed by a psyco BUT geez before blaming video games LOOK at all the REAL weapons that THEY allow their own people to buy...

Automatic weapons are illegal to own in America.

Originally posted by mythran7

Originally posted by Loktofeit

Originally posted by mythran7

 

Conservative Reasoning 101:  Guns don’t kill people, people kill people.
 

True, but does that mean we should allow average citizens to make Nuclear weapons? How about Chemical weapons? There is always going to be human beings that want to harm others, SHOULD WE MAKE IT IT EASY FOR THEM TO DO??? Or hard...hmmm

Personal responsibility doesn’t take away from collective responsibility. We protect people from all sorts of stuff in civilized society, this conservative argument is not only weak, but infantile.

Wake up, and use your brain.

And the purpose of gun ownership is to allow people to protect themselves, whether that attacker is a random thug or government. From your profile, it appears you are Canadian, so I don't expect you to understand the reasons for gun ownership in America or America's gun culture. However, to say that quote above is attributed to conservatives only is false, especially in a thread where most people agree the solution is identifying and fixing the problems in society that cause people to commit violent crimes, and I seriously doubt this is a heavily conservative crowd. :)

The collective responsibility is to get help for the people that need it. The collective responsibility is to make sure that a person doesn't reach the point of committing such atrocities. Don't blame the thermometer for the temperature.

 

 

A gun is not a thermometer. False anology. The purpose of a gun is to kill people. It has no other purpose except for hunting.  

Where I am from, and who I am, makes 0 diffrence to my argument. Ad hom's are the tactic of someone who knows their argument has lost, or they are simply ignorant of basic logic. Two options, which is it?

So the question remains: Do you want to make it easier or harder for people to kill others?

whether it be a gun, kitchen knife, car, or whatever. Human beings will find a way to kill one another, its in our nature.

Do you really think criminals actually go into a store to buy guns?

So the question remains : Can human beings stop killing each other?

Cyberpunk 2077

"Bullet" - by Archive

"Personal responsibility......."

My 2 cents:

I do not care what politiacl side you are on with this argument. I do care that liberity is being taken in an attempt to "safen" up our society.

Guns don't kill people. People kill people.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Ooa98FHuaU0

Politians on both the right and the left, feel the need to distort the information to fit their needs.

As a society we need to stand up for our liberity and take responsibility for our actions, Americans, Brits, Germans, Christians, Hindus, Muslims, Asians....yadda yadda yadda. All of us. Stop pumping our kids full of gnarley anti-depressants and stimulants, start letting them get skinned knees at the park.

The problem is standing alone and taking responsibility for ones actions is scary, and currently our society is full of lilly-livered scardy-cats.

I look at it like this...

Take 2 people, 1 normal the other a psycho. If they both play the same game and the psycho goes out and kills people is it the games fault or the psycho?

Do people kill other people without ever playing a game?

Do people who play games all day All kill people in real life?

Basically each situation is different, each scenario is different. The only similarity here is that some crazy person went over the edge. Mormal people do not go over the edge, the problem already exists in the person before anything or anyone can push them.

It is like saying a person was hit by a car and killed, the car was red, so all red cars are killers....

Originally posted by Ryowulf

Originally posted by vandal5627
You can't really blame the games entirely but you can't really deny that they do play a small roll in which it effects the minds of the persons that play them.

Of course I can deny your statement, because what you are saying is based on your own opinion rather than any evidence.

 

Its not like this blame game is new. In the 1930's in was "dime novels are corrupting are youth!"  More recently there has been things like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mazes_and_Monsters

Let me give my own unsupported opinion and say given the number of people who play video games compaired to the number of mass shootings, I'd have to come to the conclusion that video games don't play a role.  If they did and given how easy it is to get ahold of a gun, we'd have a heck of a lot more mass killings.

Dude, there are many studies on this that shows that violence in media affects the minds of kids in a negative way.  Just because it doesnt affect you doesnt mean it won't affect other people in a small way.  Did I say it's completely the games fault?  I Just said it does affect them in a small way and that's a fact.

Originally posted by allendale5

I checked the movie line-up last night for something to watch.  I have lots of channels, all the HBO, Cinemax, Showtime, Stars etc etc.  Nearly every movie was about killing.  Being killed, doing the killing, investigating the killing, revenge by killing those who killed, kill kill  kill kill.  

 

Also, if you check the t.v. ratings for the last .. oh, say ten years.. you'll find that most of the top shows have killing as their central theme.  CSI.. etc.  Or, just open any history book.  Or for that matter, take a gander at the true history of any religion.  

 

As humans, we are totally enthrawled and mesmerized by death.  It has always been that way and it always will be.  It consumes us and pervades nearly everything we watch.  Do you see any channels reporting on good news?  No, it's death and violence.  It's a true cop-out to blame video games, since they are the natural offshoot of other media -- media and entertainment btw that is in extremely high demand.   

I agree and the without going into ban land all I will say is that Hollywood supports one political party over the others.  You can guess which one.

How about a march against stupidity and hypocrisy?

Q: Why did you kill all of those people?

A: Game X told me it would be ok to kill them.

The objective and true answer:  Because I am a fucked up individual and I need help.

Originally posted by NorseGod

Originally posted by mythran7

Originally posted by Loktofeit

Originally posted by mythran7

 

Conservative Reasoning 101:  Guns don’t kill people, people kill people.
 

True, but does that mean we should allow average citizens to make Nuclear weapons? How about Chemical weapons? There is always going to be human beings that want to harm others, SHOULD WE MAKE IT IT EASY FOR THEM TO DO??? Or hard...hmmm

Personal responsibility doesn’t take away from collective responsibility. We protect people from all sorts of stuff in civilized society, this conservative argument is not only weak, but infantile.

Wake up, and use your brain.

And the purpose of gun ownership is to allow people to protect themselves, whether that attacker is a random thug or government. From your profile, it appears you are Canadian, so I don't expect you to understand the reasons for gun ownership in America or America's gun culture. However, to say that quote above is attributed to conservatives only is false, especially in a thread where most people agree the solution is identifying and fixing the problems in society that cause people to commit violent crimes, and I seriously doubt this is a heavily conservative crowd. :)

The collective responsibility is to get help for the people that need it. The collective responsibility is to make sure that a person doesn't reach the point of committing such atrocities. Don't blame the thermometer for the temperature.

 

 

A gun is not a thermometer. False anology. The purpose of a gun is to kill people. It has no other purpose except for hunting.  

Where I am from, and who I am, makes 0 diffrence to my argument. Ad hom's are the tactic of someone who knows their argument has lost, or they are simply ignorant of basic logic. Two options, which is it?

So the question remains: Do you want to make it easier or harder for people to kill others?

So which is it?

A firearm is a tool, like a spoon. Leave it on a table, it does nothing until someone picks it up.

Should boxcutters be banned or did they do the right thing by going after the bad guys?

 

 

So by that count I should be allowed to have nukes, tanks, rockets, biological weapons at home? Ya know, just in case someone invades, preparedness is half the battle. It's harmless!

Simple fact is, having guns around increases the chance someone will use it. Simple. 0 guns, noone can use it, except if they go to extra troubles and cost to get it, which I'd say would eliminate the impulse shootings (waa, angry, o look a gun, lets pew someone). 10.000.000 guns, well... just check the US statistics in shootings and killings and compare it to other developed countries.

I would agree that the guns are not the cause, they are a tool that is widely available and simple to use in the society that the US has become. No time for parenting, pressure for economic and academic sucess, unemployment, peer pressure, disregard for fellow man, rampant materialism, beauty focus...etc etc. Not saying this is happening only in US mind you. I'm seeing it in my country also...in past 20 years we went from "yeh I know my neighbours and love hanging with them, doing stuff together" to "need more money to have more stuff than the other guy", the low income ppl are harldy getting through the month thus not putting enough time in to childrens education, rich kids feel entitled to be above the rest (stuff I see kids do nowadays in shool would never ever be tolerated in the past, or how they behave in public places)... so on and so forth.

tldr: it's the fault of the society as a whole and parenting imo, not guns. But having no guns would definetly lower murder rates and killing sprees.

[mod edit]

Originally posted by Terranah

There's been many studies regarding violent video games relative to gun violence, and no link has been established.  I have killed many npc's and players over the years.  If I was going to guess, I'd say the number's are up in the 1 million range.  Yet I never murdered anyone.  In fact, I've saved quite a few lives over the years.  Just gave cpr to someone who coded last week and she lived, so chalk another +1 in the save category.

 

Hitler, Stalin and Mao never played video games as children, yet they collectively killed over a hundred million people. 

 

There is a greater link between mental illness and mass killing, but no one wants to have that conversation because it doesn't fit with the politics of the day.

Exactly.  Better to do something with a emotional "feel good" focus, than deal with a complex (and potentially expensive) issue like mental illness.  This way the Usual Suspects in the mass media and their political masters can grandstand for the thoughtless and gullible, produce a lot of sound bites, and then move on to the next fluff headed topic.

Dealing with violence on all levels would require a critical examination of not just individuals, but the culture and the political system as well.  Thats VERY unlikely to happen.