Originally posted by Darth-Batman
Every time I read something new about this game it seems more and more unlike elder scrolls.

It's not TESO...it's DAOC2 with an elder scrolls paintjob!

Here we go again, another game that will lock people into a category straight off the bat. It's unfortunate that TESO is going down this route when it could of gave players more options and dynamic entry to the game rather than this.

I'm not sure on this one.  It's more realistic that different races have different bonuses or special abilitites.  For instance, a lizard guy that can breathe underwater or a feline race that can see better in the dark...these things align well within the fantasy world and make it more believable.

On the other hand, I like being able to play whatever race I want without worrying about the special abilities or bonuses, and a game designer would have to take great care in ensuring that those special attributes, traits, etc were not unbalancing.

I think I would lean toward asymmetrical factions, but either way would be fine.  I know I would probably never play a lizard guy in Skyrim, except that the idea of swimming underwater unhindered is enough incentive to get me to try it.  Might help with immersion if the races are different.

Yeah....I guess I am leaning toward asymmetry.

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Originally posted by sapphen

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Originally posted by ShakyMo This is a good thing, different classes on each faction breeds animosity and rivalry. It's always "they are overpowered because they have paladins" etc.. great news, well done for not giving into to the balanced obsessed wow kiddies.

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Balance is an illusion.  There will always be OP classes, that is the nature of the MMO - it is constantly changing.  The trick is to make the imbalanced fun and entertaining.

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Yeah, I guess when you are one of the OP classes imbalance is "fun and entertaining".

Have to say, this has really dulled my anticipation of TESO by a lot.

I have been a huge fan of the ES series it prob gave me the love of rpgs I have today. The more I read about TESO the more it sounds like DAoC2 shoehorned into ES universe and not even remotely close to  the ES mmo that could have been ( NC-John had a nice list to start ).

This is both a mmo player and ES player that will not be buying as it looks now . Only said that because I thought I read somewhere that according to one of the devs...mmo players and ES players were 2 different groups that this game would appeal to.

Originally posted by Xiaoki

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Originally posted by sapphen

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Originally posted by ShakyMo This is a good thing, different classes on each faction breeds animosity and rivalry. It's always "they are overpowered because they have paladins" etc.. great news, well done for not giving into to the balanced obsessed wow kiddies.

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Balance is an illusion.  There will always be OP classes, that is the nature of the MMO - it is constantly changing.  The trick is to make the imbalanced fun and entertaining.

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And whats the alternative? Let God like classes run free and destroy the game? Let awful classes be forgotten?

Yeah, I guess when you are one of the OP classes imbalance is "fun and entertaining".

Have to say, this has really dulled my anticipation of TESO by a lot.

You see what you want to see Xia.  I thought by saying "MMOs constantly change" it would be understood that when a class becomes OP that it would change.  I think it's funny in a MMO, you could have a class that seems balanced then somebody stumbles upon a neat trick and then suddenly they become OP.

If your defination of "fun and entertaining" running around with an OP class then you have a sick way to define it.  When I say fun and entertaining I am talking about everyone, not just what you want.  MMOs have always been a balacing act.

Originally posted by ShakyMo
Also its the grass is always greener thing, the perception that other factions classes are overpowered even if they're not. Great stuff, good for building animosity.

Animosity fuels this genre, didn't you know that?

1 thing I clearly remember from DAoC was the constant "Balance Patches" .

One month some Class would get buffed while another would get nerfed into uselessness. Then the next month the buffed Class would get nerfed and another would get buffed.

It was never ending. All in the name of "balance"

Mythic swung the nerf/buff bat like a spaztic child trying to hit a pinata

3 factions are there to take care of the alleged Asymmetry.

The imbalance you get in a 2 faction game is massive, no matter what you (dev) do.

I am absolutely for asymmetry, realm pride, each race has it's perks and it's flaws, and let people experiment with builds.

Back in the day, I remember Bretons being the fotm ice wizards because of 10 extra constitution points and being easily confused with priests (both in robes with a staff), or other classes voluntarily being rolled with "wrong unviable" race for their looks but also for their size.

When I started, someone had an avalonian paladin (silly choice) and he's been made fun of for months (if not years) - still, it was the highest ranked paladin on the server, feared and respected - and it all started because he made an "unviable" choice! Maybe for the sake of roleplaying? I don't know - but it was cool.

Part of the gameplay is all the theorycraft behind building your perfect character - pretty please take daoc and reskin it with TESO lore.

Originally posted by samvenice

 - pretty please take daoc and reskin it with TESO lore.

May a Daedric Prince drag you to purgatory!

Remove classes, let all skills be open and you choose what you want to use, change just takes time.

They want symmetry - allow any race to join any faction.

They want asymmetry - allow any race to join any faction.

Originally posted by samvenice   - pretty please take daoc and reskin it with TESO lore.

 

Thats exactly what they are doing and that is the core problem with TESO

If you have asymetrical PvP, players will quickly figure out which one is overpowered FOTM and then the nerfs start.  And then they jump to the next FOTM, and they get nerfed, and then the community devolves into calling another class/race/faction overpowered and begging for nerfs.

Mythic games have been horribly unbalanced.  Fun?  Sure, if you had the right class or were in the preferred faction. Terrible if you were in the wrong class or faction.  With 3 factions, it can be masked for a while with population, but with just 2 factions you can't mask the imbalance, as shown with Warhammer. 

It is nearly impossible to balance asymetrical PvP.

Originally posted by SBE1

It is nearly impossible to balance asymetrical PvP.

If races do have different stuff like breathing underwaterm better at magic etc...(which is core to TES games) then you need to minimise other places where imbalance can take place. Locking each race into a faction only cements the imbalance. I really do not understand how the designers do not see the flaw in their design logic by doing so.

Allow all races freedom in the world (I see no downside to it) allow all skills to all races (thus removing any imbalance through skills as anyone can learn any skill so you just need to make sure skills are balanced in themselves and if something is too powerful...well anyone can have it as long as it isn't a neccessity to survive) and allow any race the freedom to join any faction they choose (you can still have prefered factions by race but at least allow people who want to play a particular race the option, via long quest chain perhaps, the freedom to join a faction they choose).   

Perhaps you want to play a Redguard who is really not hapy with the alliance and so you want to fight against the alliance to destabilise it and let your race walk free again. What if your character concept were that your family suffered at the hands of an allied faction and you hate the faction because of it...would you relly just accept it or would you at the very least leave the oppression?

I just don't get these design choices...at least not unless I see the choices being made simply because they think they are easier to program and will promote the PvP...which in a TES game is not really a big part of it even if in an MMO it seems you can't mive without PvP being demanded. It just seems they went this direction because they think they can use the TESO lore combined with the DAOC PvP and please everyone....bad news guys....