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Originally posted by moosecatlol
The hardest combat system for me to master was Guild Wars 1, christ playing melee was ridiculous in competitive play. Micro managing your swing timer so that you can maintain movement while attacking took so long for me to get down. Combine that with having to learn what each of the 400+ skills. . . it was the first and only game where I actually had to glue myself to a god damn wiki page.

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I have to say Vindictus as well.  I find most mmo combat dull for PVP and with Vindictus, I want to PVP.

I don't really find anything else as original or as good as Vindictus combat currently released.  Most mmos have just made minor tweaks to the formula, they have not changed the standing around pressing hotkey formula.  Or you have the "twitch" games where all you do is left click alot.  They just don't stack up to picking up rocks, throwing stuff, dodging attacks, grappling, and using hooks to immobilize targets.  However, Vindictus lags super bad right now.

Also Mabinogi has a good combat system that really requires thinking and timing.

Aside from that Pirate of the Burning Sea required a bit more skill then the common mmo because you had to think out how to attack with a ship.

Thanks for all of the input. I look forward to trying them out.

To me it just seems like their is a major disconnect between what consumers want and what most MMOs are producing. The interfaces and combat mechanics of many games are not nearly as good as vanilla WoW. I'd rather see something with a really evolved combat system, a few battlegrounds, and interesting lore rather than a giant set of maps with a tiny set of abilities and the same old germanic mythology.

Originally posted by madazz

Originally posted by nariusseldon

It is not about the set of hot keys. You don't have to have all the abilities available at all time. In fact, some restriction is good for the meta game of finding good skill builds.

However, if you talk abotu the sheer number of different abilities, i would say D3 (not a MMO though). You have abilities from transforming yourself, to forming a time bubble, to summoning dogs than blow them up. I have not seen an MMO with the diversity of the stuff you can do. Not even WOW.

So the OP asks for an MMO as an example and you bring up D3 anyways? Lots of help buddy!

 

Because a) D3 is close enough in terms of playstyle of a MMO (like those waiting in the city for their dungeon to pop, and b) the combat system is not specific to MMO.

Case in point, the same D3 type combat is used in Marvel Heroes, a MMO. There is nothing preventing a MMO to use a similar combat system.

Originally posted by mrw0lf
Appologies read op incorrectly

Agreed - if they had kept the alpha test combo system for spellcasters and balanced the system better it would be the clear winner by a very long mile.

Someone should pick it up and run with a reworked version of it.

Another vote for GuildWars 1.  Tons of depth and complexity.

Honorable mention to WoW for the need to setup rotations and manage cooldowns.  Unfortunately the player element of combat was reduced by the macro system and FOTM builds.

Since this is clearly an opinion thread ill give mine. To me the most polished combat is in WoW. But the one i like the most is in Age of Conan. If TSW had AoC combat (mechanics and polishness) i would say TSW, but as of now its the worst combat mechanic IMO (both unpolished, clunky, and boring with the build build build, finish, rinse and repeat with every skill). I play it from time to time but combat is the only reason i dont log in more often to TSW. 

Of the MMOs I have played I currently prefer AoC due to its nature in active combat if you choose a melee class. Caster classes have some spellweaving but It`s not the same as a melee class there.

Log on a pvp server if you want to see what the most trained ones can do, its amazing to see a low lvl actually beat a higher lvl just due to skills, and not just gear. But I think the PvE servers are the most populated these days there, but there is pvp there also.

Guild Wars 1 is not a real MMO, but if it counts, I vote for it.

Other than that, I don't know. I hate the HOTBARS AND MILLIONS OF BUTTONS EVERYWHERE systems most MMOs seem to use, so I'd be practically stuck between choosing GW2 and TSW. GW2 is fun and fluid and has a lot of hidden depth, but is also too... constrained, perhaps? It doesn't have that many different mechanics. TSW has lots of skills and tries to be like GW1, but doesn't do well enough and feels slow and clunky.

Originally posted by Harmstrong

 

Of every single MMO on the market or in beta, which has the most evolved combat mechanics. What I mean by this is what game has the largest set of functional combat mechanisms? What non-fps mmo would you describe as the most skill dependent? How many buttons and/or hotkeys does it take to implement the full set of features for any particular class?

Cheers,

Harmstrong

 

I think Asheron's Call 1 has the most robust combat mechanics, when monsters or players are firing at you, say arrows, crossbow bolts or magic spells you can dodge them, not insta pathed to you, also means you have to time and calculate your own attacks!

heres a few videos of examples I could find

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JaHsHnDG07c ~ War Magic skills

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhLdzvLtemQ ~ Missile skill ( bow in this example, throwing weapons and crossbow also play differently )

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPj9wI7m1B8 ~ Melee skill example ( dagger, all melees play differently )

With the physics mechanics, and the ability for all players to heal themselves generally the outcome of any battle is changing many ways, combine that with openworlds, lack of zoning, great landscapes and structures with real time combat and you have your self a awesomely paced, and enjoyable game.

Best thing to do is give it a shot and keep practicing! A level 10 can beat a level 35 with using "player skill" in dodging and attacking! or any level range really be it a level 126 vs a 275!

I am very surprised no one has mentioned Tera.

My attacks have to be timed perfectly, sometimes leading the target, if I attack I am animation locked, I can't just bail out of it and react straight away, I can leave my self wide open. This also gives rise to faking attacks, so that you can tempt your enemy into a long attack chain and score a perfect counter attack. Most abilities can be dodged or shielded. It is very fluid and smooth.

TSW does NOT have the best combat, it has a good system for putting your character together, but one you've selected your abilities there is very little in the way of tactics when it comes down to the crunch. I bow my head to its significant skill tree and many thousands of builds, but good combat? Not a chance.

I will bow my head to WoW, its skill curve is in the execution, not so much in the build. Even since the change of talents there is very few ways to change up a Demonology Warlock for example.

Now having played this next game, regardless of its release status I feel I can list it.

Archeage.

Archeage features a very indepth skill tree even more expansive than TSW. It doesn't limit skills or spell to a short 7 either. It has as many as you have skill points (assuming you didn't fill up on passives, even then you should atleast have about 20 or so abilities, all handpicked.

You see Archeage has a talent tree for each of its 10 specs (you select three of them and invest the limited talent points across all three) the trees are based on level, no prequisite talent. If you want a skill halfway down, but haven't taken anything yet, you can grab it regardless, which makes for untold build oppertunities.

Archeage also promotes synergy between others, certain spell effects are only triggered by having someone else there to perform a linking abilitiy.

Where as you guys boast the tactical bonuses of having 7 ability buttons and hundreds of skill options, Archeage offers the same hundreds of abilities, but doesn't limit buttons, allowing for a vastly increased tactical palette.

The combat is fast paced, but not so much that there isn't time for you to protect yourself from ganks.

It's smooth, and fluid, well animated, and looks beautiful.

I don't blame people for not picking this one because only a small handful of westerners have got their hands on it but, my pick is Archeage.

Originally posted by ArChWind

Non-FPS? Best unique combat that is very fluid. Almost addicting becasue it requires real player skill? If you're skilled enough you can beat 24 man raid content solo?

Vindictus.

Nothing else comes close. To bad it is run by a company that just doesn't know how to run a game.

+1 on Vindictus.  

If 'robust' means lots of buttons, then I'd say go with WoW... plenty of whackamole to be enjoyed across 3-5 hotbars in that game. However, if we're talking about movement, flow, co-operative gameplay, positioning of character, positioning of attack and everything other than a Wurlitzer-sized hotbar, Vindictus is really up there.

Originally posted by mindw0rk

Why so many people consider GW1 hard to master? I remember when I started playing it, Ive made max level monk, put some skills on hotbar and after 2 hours of arena matches I was fairly confident in my healer/support abilities. Now try to heal with shaman or priest in WoW if you never played the game before.

 

 Oh please. I jumped on my partners priest having never played one before and was doing arenas super easy, just spam those heals and run around corners to avoid interrupts.

GW1 on the other hand, try taking a monk into a proper PvP tournament and if your team isn't working to protect you from mesmers and interrupt rangers you will get destroyed violently.

The team work and diversity in builds in GW1 were second to none. Although it isnt a true MMO per se, and GW2 doesnt really inherit its depth.

Originally posted by Phaserlight
Ask a room full of people this question and you're likely to get as many answers as there are people playing games. Might as well face it; it's a popularity contest.

I've always found VO to have the best combat mechanics out of any game I've tried, simply because it's based on Newtonian physics with very few magical barriers. The magic is in how you play the game.

I may be speaking to the wrong audience, but for anyone who has experienced downhill longboarding or powder riding, the combat in VO at its best carries a similar feeling.

Vendetta Online? The combat is definitely fun, and the cap ship battles are something I think every MMO gamer should experience at least once, but it is still extremely basic in both features and function. I can think of a lot of positive words for VO's combat, but robust isn't one of them.

Originally posted by Harmstrong

 

Of every single MMO on the market or in beta, which has the most evolved combat mechanics. What I mean by this is what game has the largest set of functional combat mechanisms? What non-fps mmo would you describe as the most skill dependent? How many buttons and/or hotkeys does it take to implement the full set of features for any particular class?

Cheers,

Harmstrong

 

This is an interesting topic.

You speak of "skill dependent", but you only mention one skill - the ability to manage hotbars.

As a non-fps mmo, I still point at DDO. Where does the "skill" level start, you might ask? Well, from the character creation of course. You need to have a solid idea of what you're building towards and how to do it in the given ruleset/mechanics. Since you are free to mix and match your classes, those four levels of fighter or barbarian mixed in with a full ranger might just be better than a pure ranger.

For combat you need the knowledge of ruleset too - as in, monsters (vulnerabilities), tactics and how to play your class & how to manage your items. Some people might use a ton of clickies, casting spells through them and what not, but might still perform worse than a good "duelist" who knocks down every possible monster without trouble.

There is also the whole twitch mechanic of needing to know when to dodge and how to for example lead certain spells and/or archery.

However! Enough of that. As my second choise, I'd probably pick Rift if I remember it's mechanics right. Seemed like there were a lot of ways to build your character for specific purposes and it certainly required skill (brains) to think about this. Or you could just trollipop one tree full of skillpoints and play it like WoW, but if memory serves me right again, I think I saw people like that burning first in the invasions.

The combat in Rift was of course simple, but it sure was fun to play as a mix of bard/ranger/blade dancer. And things sure got interesting in PvP where I Always had the Most Healed in the whole match!