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Guild Wars 2

Guild Wars 2 

General Discussion  » GW2 running into the same issues that Rift and WAR had

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123 posts found
  strangiato2112

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 9/21/12
Posts: 1566

1/12/13 11:40:51 AM#81
Originally posted by Theutus
Originally posted by ShakyMo
perhaps levels are the problem

this

not this

 

even if you go by skills, there is still a point where a player or group is strong enough for mob x but not for mob y.  levels are just a boring way of assigning player power.  But they are never the problem.

  tordurbar

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/02/10
Posts: 407

1/12/13 11:52:43 AM#82

Many times during the GW2 beta the problem of dynamic events and low population was brought up - and never really addressed. I am still playing pve GW2 but it is getting harder and harder to continue because I am not able to complete the DE solo and there no players in the zone to help me out.

I am torn about a  solution. On one hand I would like to see the DE's nerfed so that a single player can handle them but, on the other hand, it is MUCH more exciting to fight a DE with challenge. Scaling would seem to be a solution but I thought that GW2 had scaling - and it does not seem to work most of the time. Really, I do not believe that there is a solution. WH and Rift never solved the problem except when you were a high level player in a low level event. 

The unfortunately thing about GW2 is that there are SO many DE. The pve game almost lives and dies on them. Had there been fewer DE maybe the players would not notice as much. At least in Rift you could level just fine avoiding Rifts. You can survive and level in GW2 avoiding DE but it is going to take you a LOT longer.

  Axryn

Novice Member

Joined: 5/21/10
Posts: 3

"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself"

1/12/13 1:48:37 PM#83

1) Players should be able to post Game wide looking for help.

2) Anet should make major raids mobs populate anywhere in the world with an in game announcement stating that ?****! has been spotted in zone #****! . The mob would be appropriate to the zones level, with drops by player max level. This would get players into low population zones.

3) The current system of players adjusting to the zone they enter is in my opinion great, nothing to change here.

  ChromeBallz

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/31/04
Posts: 275

1/12/13 5:36:37 PM#84


Originally posted by Torvaldr

Originally posted by Nitth

Originally posted by ShakyMo perhaps levels are the problem
How long have i been saying that for now....
So how do you plan on providing a tangible and measurable sense of progression.  We've already had the horizontal progression discussion and there are a decent number of people who want that in some form.  Taking away levels removes that.

In TSW I can see what % of the wheel I have completed and my level for each aspect of the wheel.  I'm gated on where I can go and adventure and what equipment I can use.  So a leveless system that uses skill points is not really any different than character levels.  They're just displaying the "level" and progress in a different place.


Easy. Make progression personal instead of impersonal. Story progression, actual world changing events, your own influence on the game. Try and design a game you'd want to play over and over even if there weren't any levels in it, or even gear upgrades, where the game itself was awarding enough by simply being fun.

Themeparks are designed to make you run through them once, maybe twice. They have almost zero features worth repeating more than that, that's why they're called themeparks - Just like RL ones. You don't go there every single day to repeat what you've already done, the only times you go there are a) when there's something new there or b) show your friends.

The only way to truly get people to repeat existing content is to introduce sandbox elements to a game and currently, very few MMO's offer this.

There's a good reason why games like Ultima Online and EVE Online are still around and kicking, even growing up to a point.


That said, GW2 is the best attempt a themepark MMO can make at getting people to repeat content by putting the focus on exploration rather than levelling and gear, incentivizing (re)visiting lower level content by scaling you down and giving level appropriate rewards.

Playing: EVE
Played (more than 1 month): WoW, Tera, GW2, L2, WAR, AoC, DnL, GW, LotRO, EQ2, TOR, CoH, STO, TSW
Tried (trial, up to 1 month): EQ, UO, AO, EnB, TCoS, Fury, Ryzom, EU, DDO, TR, RF, CO, Aion, VG

  Miklosan

Novice Member

Joined: 7/17/08
Posts: 179

1/12/13 9:29:30 PM#85
GW2 was a nice game in the beginning but now it's more or less a pile of dogshit to be honest! But HEY!!! We going have to be honest here, it's free to play once you purchased the box after all!
  Torgrim

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 12/15/05
Posts: 2171

1/13/13 3:57:45 AM#86
Originally posted by tordurbar

Many times during the GW2 beta the problem of dynamic events and low population was brought up - and never really addressed. I am still playing pve GW2 but it is getting harder and harder to continue because I am not able to complete the DE solo and there no players in the zone to help me out.

 

In beta1 the DE was so hard it was impossible to do them alone and the heart quests were not there (they were put in on request by some lazy gamers)

Beta2 and 3 DEs got nerfed so most of them could be done solo, only DEs I have problem doing alone are the ones in Orr but that zone is made for group play to begin with.

I guess It all comes down to classes, some classes are easy to play DE with while others struggles.

 

If it's not broken, you are not innovating.

  ennymith

Novice Member

Joined: 5/03/09
Posts: 116

1/13/13 6:30:20 AM#87
Originally posted by Latronus
Well, they could do something along the lines of reducing mob HPs and damage output so that newer players won't have to skip things, but in my opinion that defeats the original design.  Other games have scaled back zones so that alts or newbies can rush through the content to get to the top faster so they can partake of the goodness if you will.

 

I used tho think this was a solution that would work in a previous MMO that was seeing these issues, and the company did some tings along those lines, but guess what, it did not really change things.

Why because most of the players present were endgamers leveling up alts.  The trouble with this is end-gamers tend to be bored with the starter content and just want to min-max through it as fast as possible, so they gravitate to the same handful of zones and meta-event chains for some levels, use crafting to skip level sections lacking good/populated event chains, and get thier last 10 or so levels topping off with the personal story. 

The issue is the lack of really new players. 

GW2, after 5 years of hype, turns out to be just another Asian end game cash shop grinder. Now that sales have dropped off, F2P can't be far off.

  Baleout

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/21/04
Posts: 144

1/13/13 6:48:47 AM#88

This happens to every game that has ever come out when it become top heavy .

 

I do play GW2 right now , but i played EQ2 for 7 years and it became no differant as other posters here have said its because its a level based game  you had to play solo till you get to end game and thats the way you had to do it.

 

At least with GW2 they do have DE,s and once you hit 50-55 you can sart doing dragons for better loot and exp the same with dungeons but they can be harder to get groups for.But with EQ2 you had questlines to follow and it was hard to fill low level gtoups also.

 

But in both games i starting doing the same zones i knew i could get fast exp to get to cap.

 

But the first game i played online was UO and it never had that problem guess why?

 

No levels so there you go.

 

If UO would come out with a new game and better graphics i would in a heart beat go back to it

 

  Gaia_Hunter

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/04/12
Posts: 2620

1/13/13 12:58:22 PM#89

The desert game.

 

 

 

Currently playing: GW2
Cooperative (semi cooperative)board games you should check: Pandemic, Sentinels of the Multiverse, Eldritch Horror, Descent 2.0,Level 7 Omega Protocol, Last Night on Earth

  Xiaoki

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/07/04
Posts: 2467

1/13/13 1:27:33 PM#90


Originally posted by Axryn

2) Anet should make major raids mobs populate anywhere in the world with an in game announcement stating that ?****! has been spotted in zone #****! . The mob would be appropriate to the zones level, with drops by player max level. This would get players into low population zones.


They could start by making the major raid mobs that are already in the game actually be something.


Make the major encounters(like the dragons) difficult for even a large number of people and have a good chance of giving you rewards that you want.


Greatly increase the timer as well so it feels like a rare epic event and not just something that repeats every couple hours.

  Bloodaxes

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/03/09
Posts: 2633

1/13/13 2:25:26 PM#91

It's not exactlly deserted but I don't see more than 2-3 people everytime I wander in x map so it's still sad.

 

A suggestion I can give to people rolling a new alt or new players is to go in the human maps, seriously they are the most packed of them all as shown by gaia.

  Seeker728

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/13/04
Posts: 179

1/14/13 12:33:21 AM#92
Originally posted by Z3R01
Originally posted by RizelStar

Naw not on planet Earth.

 

Oh and as to why I didn't eleborate, the first page about covered what needs to be said, good try though OP.

What do you mean good try? Are you trying to say im lying or trying to troll?

You guys really need to get over this, if someone says something negative about my game they must hate it line of thinking.

Well Z3R01, this is the nature of our country right now, look at politics.  If you're a Independant, you don't matter, if you're a Republican, you're hate women and minorities, and if you're a Democrat you're a idiot hippie.  If you don't like what I like, i will demean/demonize your thereby shouting down any possible threatening rebuttle and I get to look hip and cool in the process.

I'm actually playing GW2 as i type this... 

 

Bringing up an obvious flaw in game design doesn't mean im trying to troll or spread misinformation... 

Gw2 in a lot of ways is a really good game but to focus the most hyped mechanic in the game around high zone population was an obvious mistake. So much so that A-net has already gone on record saying they intend to fix the issue.

 

So yes, this is a problem on "Planet earth".

 

Personally I burnt out on GW2, I played several characters, got 2 to 80 by the time Fractals hit, and then that's all anyone ever did.  I was on a very active server, but the game world in any given zone except starter zones had maybe 10 people per zone, and rarely did they want to drop what they were doing to clear a DE.  This top heavy trend while all DE's and Hearts were basically same old grind is what pushed me away from the game.  Sure I soloed many a DE, dropped a few champions and over all, not worth the effort for the Champs and most DE's/Hearts weren't all that memorable.  A chore to do for completion's sake and that was about it.

It did do some things really well, but the whole themepark design...when do we reach a point where its just the same old sh*t in a different dress?  I have to agree with Bad Spock on a number of his points, and I have said for quite some time, progression can be mapped in ways other than levels.  UO did it first and has IMHO never been rivalled for its dynamic balance of economy, pvp and player driven content.  Even as I was playing GW2 with my first character, by the time I hit level 30 I got annoyed with the notion of having to repeat this treadmill for another 50 levels.  They could've entirely removed levels and just used skill points as a character progression feature. But even that wouldn't change the basic static nature of the world.

Do I hate the game?  Absolutely not.  I just don't play it anymore because I got burnt out on how it funnelled its playerbase into instances and the world was pretty lackluster as far as content went.  Like all themeparks, its static nature and level driven segregation becomes numbing after a while, and my tolerance for the design style is worn out.  

Even peace may be purchased at too high a price, and the only time you are completely safe is when you lie in the grave.

  Daggerjaydo

Novice Member

Joined: 12/16/07
Posts: 121

1/14/13 1:02:11 AM#93

I still love and play GW2, but definitely not as voraciously as i use to.

 

I get enjoyment out of exploring the world, finding new DE's, and other hidden or not-so-obvious elements of the game. Finding beautiful scenery is also always fun to me.

 

 

My big problem with the game, is that the carrots are on a really long stick. There just feels like there's no freaking reward for playing the game.

 

I'm currently levelling a warrior and I really want the t3 norn cultural gear for him, but that's 119 gold. In most other games, 119g might be a lot, but not like, an insane amount of gold... But for me that's months of heavy playing and saving for a set of gear, just for the looks.

 

The only people that can really get satisfaction out of these things are the people that have amassed a giant amount of gold. There are not very many of these people, and becoming one of these people is very hard, and requires a lot of luck.

 

I really think Anet needs to reevaluate their reward system, so everything isn't so damn grindy. Legendaries being a grind? Hell yeah, that's cool. But exotics, just for the skins? There needs to be some rebalancing.

Part of me really wishes Anet would inflate the gold rewards by a lot, which I know will ultimately make everything more expensive, but at least then I could afford cultural gear, bag runes, guild armor/weapons, and all those other things you buy with gold.

 

  Duvious

Novice Member

Joined: 5/06/07
Posts: 118

1/14/13 1:42:06 AM#94
Originally posted by Nitth

Originally posted by ShakyMo
perhaps levels are the problem

How long have i been saying that for now....

Amen,  it would be a breath of fresh air to see a game that matches the skill system from EVE to a themepark type game like GW2.  Or better yet get a modern day version of UO.  UO did so many things right I just can't bring myself to play a game with 90's graphics.  Imagine UO with modern technology.....WINNER!!

  User Deleted
1/14/13 4:04:21 AM#95

The idea of adjusted levels is good, not perfect and it still has to be fleshed out (if they want to do it) and it can work almost as good as no levels.

Lets see what they do with fractals and will it still be the only thing worth doing (time/reward wise). It was a mistake and they are aware of it, hope they rectify it asap. Then move on fleshing out the thing above.

  User Deleted
1/14/13 4:11:35 AM#96

I don't think there is a problem with the way Rift, GW2, or WAR handled the mechanic.  With GW2, the only problem was misleading the playerbase on what dynamic events really were, but that's anothe story.

The fact is, you can't expect content found while leveling to stay fresh and engaging for players time after time.  That's the whole point of focusing on end-game content in the first place, which is exactly what GW2 lacks.  There's not much in the way of PvE, since group dungeons are a complet mess without class roles being needed.  There aren't really any raids or anything, either, so all you really have is PvP.  But all that ends up being is people zerging the same few maps back and forth.

GW2 has a lot of problems, but dynamic events are one them.  They fulfill their purpose just fine.

  Doogiehowser

Novice Member

Joined: 3/14/12
Posts: 1939

1/14/13 4:14:20 AM#97
Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter

The desert game.

 

 

 

There it is folks. gaia proved you all wrong. 

His server speaks for all the 52 serves in the game.

Move on folks nothing to talk about here. You are all obviously making up stuff when you say 'lower level zones are deserted'.

*rolls eyes*

"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell

"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney

  DeniZg

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/29/12
Posts: 573

1/14/13 4:19:22 AM#98

Dynamic events have several design flaws, but nothing that can't be fixed.

Make the rewards more attractive for high level player or make the events soloable or give more XP for completion of heart quests, so DE would not be mandatory if you want to level up in a regular PVE manner.

What boggles my mind the most is why doesn't Anet want to implement those fixes?

  InFlamestwo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/20/11
Posts: 677

1/14/13 4:31:24 AM#99
Remove levels.

  Jeleena

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/27/08
Posts: 124

1/14/13 4:58:47 AM#100
Originally posted by Doogiehowser
Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter

The desert game.

 

 

 

There it is folks. gaia proved you all wrong. 

His server speaks for all the 52 serves in the game.

Move on folks nothing to talk about here. You are all obviously making up stuff when you say 'lower level zones are deserted'.

*rolls eyes*

There is just as much truth in these pictures as there is in YOU claiming there is no one in the lower area's on all 52 servers in the game..... I happen to have the same experience as Gaia, I am an altoholic with character in all levelranges.

Some lower/mid area's are more popular then others, that is true, human area's are often fuller then the charr ones.

Plus if you are unhappy about your server there ia always the option to transfer FOR FREE and try out another one. Every 7 days...

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