Originally posted by Rydeson

Originally posted by Axxar
SWTOR has its flaws, but its storylines are not even remotely close to being as shallow as WoW or even GW2.

     If I wanted to read a story, I would just cuddle up on the sofa with a book.. My library has thousands of storylines, that would take me a lifetime to read, and it doesn't cost me $15 a month to enjoy them..  EQ is still my favorite MMORPG to date and it didn't need storylines to succeed.. 

I have an opposite preference to you.

While I enjoy a good book, I also like a good story in my video games as I get to see them in action rather than just through words.

I play games mostly for the story so SWTOR is my preferred MMO.

Originally posted by Axxar
SWTOR has its flaws, but its storylines are not even remotely close to being as shallow as WoW or even GW2.

Definitley agree with you on this.

Originally posted by Rydeson

Originally posted by Axxar
SWTOR has its flaws, but its storylines are not even remotely close to being as shallow as WoW or even GW2.

     If I wanted to read a story, I would just cuddle up on the sofa with a book.. My library has thousands of storylines, that would take me a lifetime to read, and it doesn't cost me $15 a month to enjoy them..  EQ is still my favorite MMORPG to date and it didn't need storylines to succeed.. 

By that token, there's no reason for movies to exist... After all, there are books! Stories should be told in no other media! :)

On topic: the thing that kills the world in SWTOR is not the size, or even the zone loads (though that does get annoying fast). The real thing is, after you complete your quests and datacron runs, there's next to no reason to keep visiting the zones. The whole thing is much too focused on combat & story.

Originally posted by Letsinod

You came to this conclusion all on your own?

 

Wow = 8 years old

SWTOR - 1 year old

 

Point?

WoW at 1 year old,l with just the free-roaming Eastern Kingdoms plus Kalimdor too was a giant compared to the tiny, cramped rat mazes of SWTOR.

Originally posted by Rocketeer

You have to give credit where credit is due. Even Vanilla WoW, maybe especially vanilla wow, felt huge to me when i first played it in 2005. I mean you could almost get 2 chars to 60 on completely different level paths. And joining an instance run ... lets say in desolace if you had never been to kalimdor before ... man that was insane. You could either go dustwallow marsh, thousand needles, feralas, complete with hostile NPC guarded settlements on the way. Or try the longer but safer darkshore, ashenvale, stonetalon route. Neither was easy to find if you didn't know the way, and both where hell on a PvP server.

And at the end of your treck you had a monster of an instance hardly anyone knew their way around, with plenty of ways to screw up.

Pity they changed the gamedesign to the mixed zones, instant instance teleporting etc. Most of the fun back then was "invading" hostile land like hillsbrad foothills with a mixed level zerg or going into instances you where not supposed to get into like the one in your enemies faction city. In many ways Vanilla WoW was a really good MMO imho.

 

This is what alot of todays mmo:s are missing, heck even todays WoW! Guess my last hope for a new mmo is Blizzard next one IF THEY REMEMBER.... what made their little baby WoW so very special...

One example I see everytime I follow a new mmo is the hysterical yelling "FORBID GANKING UHUUUBUUHUUU"  Remembering when I started playing WoW back in 05 I think it was, Blizzard made it VERY VERY VERY SIMPLE:

PvP servers are now there for you who want that kind of playstyle

PvE servers ...........

RP.......... 

Blizzard know what they're doin to make everyone happy! My big hopes to "Titan" (very small hope for elder scrolls meanwhile;) )

Originally posted by Axxar
SWTOR has its flaws, but its storylines are not even remotely close to being as shallow as WoW or even GW2.

Their "stories" are hit and miss.

I made a Jedi Consular and the stortyline was just as shallow as any other MMO, maybe I should have researched before I made mine.

TOR has big worlds, the size of the worlds being too small is unlikely to be a problem to you when you're playing the game.

Alderaan, Tatooine, Hoth, Belsavis; all of those are worlds that might take you an hour or more to cross on a mount if you just try to ignore all mobs.

The problems with the worlds however, is that the devs took unnecessary measures to seperate the factions from each other and that they don't give you much of an incentive (ouside datacrons) to go exploring. Most people with whom I used to play never saw 75% of the big worlds listed above.

SWTOR could have had smaller worlds for all i care, the game doesnt really encourage exploration and as soon as youre done leveling on one planet, there really isnt any reason to go back.

Originally posted by Rydeson
     Some of you are proving our points for us.. You view MMORPG's as the same as console games or general single player PC games.. I want my genre back.. I do not want the players that jumped over into my yard to play THEIR style of gaming..  I do not play MMORPG's to relive some pre-written storyline.. KoTOR, Dragon Age and Elder Scrolls of done that along with countless others.. In my opinion, if you don't have the creative imagination to stimunlate your own mind, then please go back to your Xbox's or PC games and leave my MMO genre alone.. LOL  We all see what happen when KoTOR fans wanted a MMO to play.. bahahahaha  WoW was the first and only single player PC game that made the transition into the MMO genre with any success.. I doubt it will ever be repeated, even by Blizzard themself..  Not sure whey every dev team since has tried to duplicated it.. 

I view all video games (including MMOs) as disposable entertainment products.

If you disagree with that view, tough.

Contrary to popular belief, there are MMOs that are profitable and some are even 'WoW-clones'.

DDO, LoTRO, Aion all made their development costs plus profit.

Are they as big as 'WoW'? No, but they made money for the company so they were successful.

Originally posted by Achro

Originally posted by Axxar
SWTOR has its flaws, but its storylines are not even remotely close to being as shallow as WoW or even GW2.

 

Their "stories" are hit and miss.

I made a Jedi Consular and the stortyline was just as shallow as any other MMO, maybe I should have researched before I made mine.

yea consular and smuggler was awful,,agent was very good though

gw2 stories may be a little poorer overall, but on the other hand , they are in a good and functional game

so lets see , what is most important to the average player,,,story or gameplay

SWTOR is WAY smaller than WoW.

In SWTOR, it's "Follow the Path" or run into mountain walls.

I was hoping that this failure was going to give future devs a wake-up call. But no...    The Elder Scrolls Online is the next max-box sale flop.

Don't know if anybody posted this as yet but,

http://www.mmorpg.com/newsroom.cfm/read/16920

World of Warcraft -- 80mi2

Asheron's Call -- 500mi2

Guild Wars: Nightfall -- 15,000mi2

The Lord of the Rings Online-- 30,000mi2

Asheron's Call only open world among mmo's, GTA also has one.

Originally posted by jpnz

Originally posted by Rydeson
     Some of you are proving our points for us.. You view MMORPG's as the same as console games or general single player PC games.. I want my genre back.. I do not want the players that jumped over into my yard to play THEIR style of gaming..  I do not play MMORPG's to relive some pre-written storyline.. KoTOR, Dragon Age and Elder Scrolls of done that along with countless others.. In my opinion, if you don't have the creative imagination to stimunlate your own mind, then please go back to your Xbox's or PC games and leave my MMO genre alone.. LOL  We all see what happen when KoTOR fans wanted a MMO to play.. bahahahaha  WoW was the first and only single player PC game that made the transition into the MMO genre with any success.. I doubt it will ever be repeated, even by Blizzard themself..  Not sure whey every dev team since has tried to duplicated it.. 

I view all video games (including MMOs) as disposable entertainment products.

If you disagree with that view, tough.

 

Contrary to popular belief, there are MMOs that are profitable and some are even 'WoW-clones'.

DDO, LoTRO, Aion all made their development costs plus profit.

Are they as big as 'WoW'? No, but they made money for the company so they were successful.

Wow clone MMO's are successful in bringing in money sure, because a main portion of the community enjoys lack luster, easy mode, no depth games.

Where true hardcore MMO"s are more successful in bringing awesome content, instead of easy content, resulting in lower numbers because most people enjoy easy mode, simple.

Originally posted by Rydeson
     Some of you are proving our points for us.. You view MMORPG's as the same as console games or general single player PC games.. I want my genre back.. I do not want the players that jumped over into my yard to play THEIR style of gaming..  I do not play MMORPG's to relive some pre-written storyline.. KoTOR, Dragon Age and Elder Scrolls of done that along with countless others.. In my opinion, if you don't have the creative imagination to stimunlate your own mind, then please go back to your Xbox's or PC games and leave my MMO genre alone.. LOL  We all see what happen when KoTOR fans wanted a MMO to play.. bahahahaha  WoW was the first and only single player PC game that made the transition into the MMO genre with any success.. I doubt it will ever be repeated, even by Blizzard themself..  Not sure whey every dev team since has tried to duplicated it.. 

Originally posted by Imperator101
I have never played the game or have seen every single world map,

First off, you need to play a game if you are going to try to be an authority on said game.  Secondly, this argument was prominent before SWTOR came out, and died about a month after launch.  SWTOR's planets are NOT the size of 3 WOW areas.  It's not even close.  Belsavis is about half a WOW continent.  Hoth is probably the same size as all of WOW put together.  The first 15 levels feature these small zones you speak of... there are four of them.  The other 12+ zones in the game are monstrously huge, so please stop talking out your ass!

i think to fully understand this you need to actually compare zones.

WoW has what 4 zones now? vanilla, tbc, wrath, panda?

if you take the vanila zone and all the continents ( remember this is no zoning) and compare this to swtor's largest cluster (not a single planet is as big as a continent on wow and that's non zoned) . I'd say the total cluster is probably the same size but definately not an individual planet.

I'd argue to say that wow zones in a whole are much much larger than any planet in swtor and probably very close to a cluster of planets.

if swtor made a planet like swg made  a planet then it'd be a more arguable point. But planets in swtor are "portions" of a planet where as in WoW teh zones are full continents.

It's hard to compare but in a grading scale i think wow would win this by a far margin.

Originally posted by Souldrainer

Originally posted by Imperator101
I have never played the game or have seen every single world map,

First off, you need to play a game if you are going to try to be an authority on said game.  Secondly, this argument was prominent before SWTOR came out, and died about a month after launch.  SWTOR's planets are NOT the size of 3 WOW areas.  It's not even close.  Belsavis is about half a WOW continent.  Hoth is probably the same size as all of WOW put together.  The first 15 levels feature these small zones you speak of... there are four of them.  The other 12+ zones in the game are monstrously huge, so please stop talking out your ass!

Exactly. Anyone who says that TOR planets are smaller than WOW are either talking out of their ass or didn't play the game past the starter worlds.