Originally posted by Baleout

Good on them i dislike people that want their money back after trying it.

You buy it  you dont like it well its your fault.

Todays players are spoiled when it comes to this dont buy every game out there and you wont get burnt.

"You buy it  you dont like it well its your fault." - You have some messed up ideas my friend.

In the unregulated world of internet advertising where people can make all kinds of claims about their product (country dependant) it not unreasonable to expect a refund if you feel a company hasnt provided a product of sufficent standard or in line with their claims about the product.

You can buy a pair of shoes, a TV or baby products over the net and return them for a refund, why not games?

I really wish more comsumers of games would do this, We would see less hype and unrealistic promises about games .

Right now it feels like some developer PR people are using the same ethics manual as politicians.

Originally posted by xerax

Originally posted by Baleout

Good on them i dislike people that want their money back after trying it.

You buy it  you dont like it well its your fault.

Todays players are spoiled when it comes to this dont buy every game out there and you wont get burnt.

"You buy it  you dont like it well its your fault." - You have some messed up ideas my friend.

In the unregulated world of internet advertising where people can make all kinds of claims about their product (country dependant) it not unreasonable to expect a refund if you feel a company hasnt provided a product of sufficent standard or in line with their claims about the product.

You can buy a pair of shoes, a TV or baby products over the net and return them for a refund, why not games?

I really wish more comsumers of games would do this, We would see less hype and unrealistic promises about games .

Right now it feels like some developer PR people are using the same ethics manual as politicians.

Can you puchase a movie from store,return it and get money back after you watched it ?

besides.. he paid for release version of the game which won't be avaiable for who knows how long.

Originally posted by xpiher

Originally posted by Aragon100

Originally posted by joshbaby03

http://i45.tinypic.com/1zdykab.jpg

 

Today I was banned for requesting PayPal to seek a refund from AV on my behalf due to their product not being as advertised, as well as not having any discernable release date.  I just want ya'll to know that they will ban you if you try to get your money back in any way possible, and more than likely you will not get anything back in the end.  This is fraud in my book, and I hope that MMORPG.com and other sites cover this...I don't know where to send this information so that it gets on the front page, but it needs to be.

 

Jed

I doubt you ever get a refund and i cant really understand why you got that ban?

In my eyes Aventurine is a corrupt company, remember in Darkfall 1 when Aventurine changed the rules for sieges after a siege were lost by a Zerg that on forums then threatened to rage quit. What happened was that the server went down and the result of the siege was not saved. Aventurine then manually transfered a town the Zerg never won ingame to that Zerg against their own written down rulesetting. Rules were that developers would never interfere with the score of a server down. I bet Aventurine had some players in that whining Zerg.

There is also alot of rumors that Aventurine even though they knew a certain guild were duping they didnt interfere cause they made such good advertising promos for the game. That guild had the most expensive boat when the Zergs didnt even have the material for the smallest. 

The duping guild then made a promo video on sea warfare and i bet Aventurine saw it as a good advertising video that would bring more players to the game.

If you as a player want fair gameplay and no interference from developers then stay away from Aventurine.

 

 

 

Umm no. Stop spouting BS please thanks. The difference between this siege and previous sieges was that siege had an actual CONCLUSION. The other sieges didn't have an actual outcome. 

BS, the rulesetting was that developers would never interfere with the outcome of a server down.

That written rulesetting ment nothing when the whining Zerg threatened to ragequit on forums.

I could have understand if they first changed the rules for sieges and then acted.

Now they broke their own rules to please the Zerg.

And knowing about the mercs duping and doing nothing is another good example. Seeing their hi-end boat when nobody else had more then a raft is like saying we know theyre cheating but we choose not to act cause Ripper give us some good advertising youtube videos.

They even posted that sea warfare video here on MMORPG.com.

Originally posted by Zheom

Originally posted by xerax

Originally posted by Baleout

Good on them i dislike people that want their money back after trying it.

You buy it  you dont like it well its your fault.

Todays players are spoiled when it comes to this dont buy every game out there and you wont get burnt.

"You buy it  you dont like it well its your fault." - You have some messed up ideas my friend.

In the unregulated world of internet advertising where people can make all kinds of claims about their product (country dependant) it not unreasonable to expect a refund if you feel a company hasnt provided a product of sufficent standard or in line with their claims about the product.

You can buy a pair of shoes, a TV or baby products over the net and return them for a refund, why not games?

I really wish more comsumers of games would do this, We would see less hype and unrealistic promises about games .

Right now it feels like some developer PR people are using the same ethics manual as politicians.

 

Can you puchase a movie from store,return it and get money back after you watched it ?

besides.. he paid for release version of the game which won't be avaiable for who knows how long.

if its missing any features that the box/advert claims it had... yes

and i believe he should also wait till release to ask for a refund if things are missing. however then DF defenders will say "if you didnt like it you should have gotten a refund X amount of time ago!!! instead you waitied months after you started playing it!.... You knew what would go live!"

Originally posted by Grixxitt

Originally posted by Aragon100

 

Can you keep us updated if you got a refund?

Would be interesting to get some info on that.

He's getting a refund from Paypal, not AV

Exactly how pathetic are you to keep bumping this thread because you lost pixels in a game some time in the past?? Ive never even seen anyone put up so much butthurt over losing a holding in my life

I dont care loosing a siege fair but when developers take the city manually afterwards and transfer it against their own siege rules then it is another playingfield.

This was the only time this happened in Darkfall 1.

And the outcome of it was that hundreds of players left the game cause they felt Aventurine was corrupted.

In the US at least, the OP would be legally entitled to a refund if he ordered prior to the game release being delayed.

AV did not release a fully functioning client on Dec 22 or whatever the date was, as promised when they took his money. That alone is enough.

AV can say they have a no refund policy all they want, but it means nothing in the eyes of consumer protection law. At they same time, AV can ban anyone they want, but they have to give the money back.

As a side note, this is why it is always recommended to use an actual CC for anything internet related: it makes getting a refund infintely easier, because until you pay the bill, it is the bank's money in play and not yours. Thus, the bank is only too happy to get that back, on your behalf, because it is technically still their money.

Originally posted by skamper

The company I work for takes paypal disputes very seriously. We keep track of all people who dispute and terminate  /  prevent any sort of business in the future with them.

 

 

As you should.  My company 'fires' customers who do this or puts them in a 'cash only' status with no further digital payments allowed.  We are more than willing to work out disputes in a resonable amount of time.  Many companies don't take Paypal for this reason.  Starting to sound like a good idea if custoemrs are going to pull this garbage whenever they fancy.

Originally posted by Burntvet

In the US at least, the OP would be legally entitled to a refund if he ordered prior to the game release being delayed.

AV did not release a fully functioning client on Dec 22 or whatever the date was, as promised when they took his money. That alone is enough.

AV can say they have a no refund policy all they want, but it means nothing in the eyes of consumer protection law. At they same time, AV can ban anyone they want, but they have to give the money back.

 

As a side note, this is why it is always recommended to use an actual CC for anything internet related: it makes getting a refund infintely easier, because until you pay the bill, it is the bank's money in play and not yours. Thus, the bank is only too happy to get that back, on your behalf, because it is technically still their money.

 

pre-ordering was not possible until after the delay.

Originally posted by Roxtarr

Originally posted by skamper

The company I work for takes paypal disputes very seriously. We keep track of all people who dispute and terminate  /  prevent any sort of business in the future with them.

 

 

As you should.  My company 'fires' customers who do this or puts them in a 'cash only' status with no further digital payments allowed.  We are more than willing to work out disputes in a resonable amount of time.  Many companies don't take Paypal for this reason.  Starting to sound like a good idea if custoemrs are going to pull this garbage whenever they fancy.

Whether it was Paypal or a CC makes no difference. If something was promised for release or delivery on a certain date with certain features, and that does not happen, the customer is fully justified in requesting a refund. With AV not releasing in Dec and instead going with a prolonged beta at the last minute, a refund seems fully justified.

Now, how that company wants to treat such a customer in the future is up to them, but at the beginning of it, AV promised something to the customers and then did not deliver, at the last minute.

In any other kind of business, I see no problem with the customer being rightly upset about that.

Originally posted by Zheom

Originally posted by Burntvet

In the US at least, the OP would be legally entitled to a refund if he ordered prior to the game release being delayed.

AV did not release a fully functioning client on Dec 22 or whatever the date was, as promised when they took his money. That alone is enough.

AV can say they have a no refund policy all they want, but it means nothing in the eyes of consumer protection law. At they same time, AV can ban anyone they want, but they have to give the money back.

 

As a side note, this is why it is always recommended to use an actual CC for anything internet related: it makes getting a refund infintely easier, because until you pay the bill, it is the bank's money in play and not yours. Thus, the bank is only too happy to get that back, on your behalf, because it is technically still their money.

 

pre-ordering was not possible until after the delay.

That may be so, but I thought AV opened it up prior to that....

But I was not following it that closely so I could be wrong.

Originally posted by Burntvet

Originally posted by Zheom

Originally posted by Burntvet

In the US at least, the OP would be legally entitled to a refund if he ordered prior to the game release being delayed.

AV did not release a fully functioning client on Dec 22 or whatever the date was, as promised when they took his money. That alone is enough.

AV can say they have a no refund policy all they want, but it means nothing in the eyes of consumer protection law. At they same time, AV can ban anyone they want, but they have to give the money back.

 

As a side note, this is why it is always recommended to use an actual CC for anything internet related: it makes getting a refund infintely easier, because until you pay the bill, it is the bank's money in play and not yours. Thus, the bank is only too happy to get that back, on your behalf, because it is technically still their money.

 

pre-ordering was not possible until after the delay.

That may be so, but I thought AV opened it up prior to that....

But I was not following it that closely so I could be wrong.

 

they said there is delay and they will release on un announced date on 12th dec, pre-orders were activated on 14th.

Originally posted by Robokapp

they can ban for whatever reason. Messing with their income is a sure way to get banned.

 

What did you expect them to do when you tried to reach into their pockets thru paypal and get your money back ? Be happy about it ?

 

you're trying to take back your money and they're trying to take back their product. Where's the fraud ?

I don't get it why people are ok with this...

The fraud is when you're trying to get your money back because the product was falsly advertised and they refuse to give your money back... That's a fraud.

Luckly for OP, you can get your money back by contacting paypal to do a chargeback again and explain what happened to your account now. If not, you can chargeback from your creditcard company which you use for paypal (and here you have the biggest chances of getting your money back since CC companies do have a policy about such matters and ofcourse, there's the law).

Originally posted by benseine
[mod edit]

I think he is worrying and is upset.

And i dont think you're helping at all. Why put words in his mouth you know nothing about?

This kind of thing is why I never "pre-pay" for any game, or anything else for that matter.

Do you ever go into a restaurant, and pay FIRST? And then if you don't like the food, you ask for your money back???

I'm just old-school, I guess, but I never pay to play a beta, and never pay to see if I like something. I only buy games when they have released, and have positive reviews. I would never consider asking for my money back.

There were two exceptions to my rule: I would buy any game from BioWare or Bethesda, sight unseen. Now that has dwindled to just Bethesda, after SWTOR came out.

Originally posted by korent1991

Originally posted by Robokapp

they can ban for whatever reason. Messing with their income is a sure way to get banned.

 

What did you expect them to do when you tried to reach into their pockets thru paypal and get your money back ? Be happy about it ?

 

you're trying to take back your money and they're trying to take back their product. Where's the fraud ?

I don't get it why people are ok with this...

The fraud is when you're trying to get your money back because the product was falsly advertised and they refuse to give your money back... That's a fraud.

 There is no features on their official page that isn't actually in-game already. Also he never actually received what he really paid for yet (the released game). 

Luckly for OP, you can get your money back by contacting paypal to do a chargeback again and explain what happened to your account now. If not, you can chargeback from your creditcard company which you use for paypal (and here you have the biggest chances of getting your money back since CC companies do have a policy about such matters and ofcourse, there's the law).

 

Yes, he can most likely get his money back this way. also he will most likely never be able to buy anything from Aventurine under his name atleast.

Originally posted by Zheom

Originally posted by xerax

Originally posted by Baleout

Good on them i dislike people that want their money back after trying it.

You buy it  you dont like it well its your fault.

Todays players are spoiled when it comes to this dont buy every game out there and you wont get burnt.

"You buy it  you dont like it well its your fault." - You have some messed up ideas my friend.

In the unregulated world of internet advertising where people can make all kinds of claims about their product (country dependant) it not unreasonable to expect a refund if you feel a company hasnt provided a product of sufficent standard or in line with their claims about the product.

You can buy a pair of shoes, a TV or baby products over the net and return them for a refund, why not games?

I really wish more comsumers of games would do this, We would see less hype and unrealistic promises about games .

Right now it feels like some developer PR people are using the same ethics manual as politicians.

 

Can you puchase a movie from store,return it and get money back after you watched it ?

besides.. he paid for release version of the game which won't be avaiable for who knows how long.

Actually I agree that if you don't like a game you should be able to get a refund, I don't mean... "Yeah I played it for a week to a month and decided I didn't like it so I want my money back" but if you buy a game and it isn't as advertised, or as the advertising made it seem, if it didn't run well or at all, if it was of poor quality for the price you paid, etc. then yes, you should get a refund. 

You should have your account banned after getting the refund, but you should be able to get a refund. 

And yes, I watch movies before I buy them now days. Why? Because hype and previews are only designed to entice you, not to help you figure out if its a movie you want to watch. So I watch the movie first at home and if it turns out to be something I want to see I go to the theater or buy the bluray or digital copy :) 

Originally posted by Aragon100

Originally posted by benseine
[mod edit]

I think he is worrying and is upset.

And i dont think you're helping at all. Why put words in his mouth you know nothing about?

We've tried to help him and you both lol. You don't want to hear it though. 

Coming to a forums and saying "I initiated a charge back with paypal on a game and my game account was banned" is a bit asinine. Thats the logical expected outcome for anyone that has been playing games for any length of time. 

Coming here isn't going to garner you or the OP sympathy, it's going to have the exact opposite effect. 

Fans are going to troll you

Non Fans aren't going to be sympathetic because the practice is standard

The only support you will find are from haters and trolls looking to kick the bees nest as much as they can. 

Welcome to gaming, this was something you needed to learn if you decide to remain in gaming. Initiating a refund means you lose your game account. This is standard practice through out the industry. Sorry you guys seemed to think you can start the refund process and continue playing, but it doesn't work that way. 

Let me get this straight ..... the OP purchased beta access from Aventurine.  A $30 one time charge to have access to the game up until the release.  Upon release it would act as a typical pre-purchase where he keeps the game client and the first month sub is free. 

He decided that the game sucked, wasn't for him, didn't want to wait for fixes, whatever.  Then decided he had been screwed over and contacted Paypal for a refund.  Paypal let Aventurine know about the charge back/ refund and they promptly banned his game/forum account.

As a result the OP is upset because Aventurine banned his account ...... he officially can no longer post on the forums.

Giving the OP the benefit of the doubt, he seems a little premature with this post.  After a period of time without getting the refund I could see bitching about it.  For me the prepurchase enables access to the beta forums which are attached to the main forums.  He no longer wanted to be part of Darkfall:  UW.  Acted accordingly and Aventurine did the same.

Paypal will give him his money back, it will just take some patience on his part.