Of every single MMO on the market or in beta, which has the most evolved combat mechanics. What I mean by this is what game has the largest set of functional combat mechanisms? What non-fps mmo would you describe as the most skill dependent? How many buttons and/or hotkeys does it take to implement the full set of features for any particular class?

Cheers,

Harmstrong

It is not about the set of hot keys. You don't have to have all the abilities available at all time. In fact, some restriction is good for the meta game of finding good skill builds.

However, if you talk abotu the sheer number of different abilities, i would say D3 (not a MMO though). You have abilities from transforming yourself, to forming a time bubble, to summoning dogs than blow them up. I have not seen an MMO with the diversity of the stuff you can do. Not even WOW.

Originally posted by nariusseldon

It is not about the set of hot keys. You don't have to have all the abilities available at all time. In fact, some restriction is good for the meta game of finding good skill builds.

However, if you talk abotu the sheer number of different abilities, i would say D3 (not a MMO though). You have abilities from transforming yourself, to forming a time bubble, to summoning dogs than blow them up. I have not seen an MMO with the diversity of the stuff you can do. Not even WOW.

So the OP asks for an MMO as an example and you bring up D3 anyways? Lots of help buddy!

World of Warcraft will always wil be a pinnacle for me. Combat there is so well done and fun, Ive played the game only for battlegrounds for few years without even looking at other content. It also takes alot of experience and skill to compete at high rated arenas.

Speaking of "hard to master" combat, I think Age of Wushu has alot of potential in it. From what Ive seen, we didnt even scratch a surface of what players can achieve

I've played a ton of MMO's, particularly within the past 2-3 years, and I honestly can't answer this question with 100 percent certainty.

For me I think TSW has one of the best combat mechanics. I love the amount of options and how you can mix and match. Some of the combos people have come up with are very creative. They have even added an extra slot for an extra weapon, when I last played I had unlocked the chainsaw. Was pretty cool for a bit. I am one of those guys who doesn't use google for all his games to find the best builds too. 

I'd also put AoC up there too. I found it pretty fun, not super diverse, and unless things have changed you could get pretty creative with your skill combos too.

I'd say LOTRO is the most robust. Almost every class has to use all their skills, especially the Warden, Loremaster and Minstrel. Many skills are used to activate other skills.. many skills are based on things like block, evade, criticals to proc, which are also nescessary. Skills are used to activate other skills and layer effects (Captain, Champion and Minstrel). Combinations of skills are used to provide additional effects. Every class has it's place and has to use all their skills. The warden needs to learn skill combinations to get off certain effects. A Hunter has to constantly manage their aggro and power usage to be effective (can't just keep firing off all your skills, gotta know when and how to hold back a little), whilst utilising all their skills and using their combo points properly... and being good with their traps. The Rune-Keeper has to monitor between damage and support (healing) by controlling which runes are active otherwise they are useless. etc. etc. etc.

Definately the most in depth mechanics I've seen in an MMO. I'd go as far as saying that no class has any possible standard rotation they can use in dungeons/raids, except Hunter if the tank is especially good.

Put simply.. LOTRO players need to KNOW their class. That learning barrier is the reason I think it has a much more mature community compared to most other MMOs.

I'd have to say TSW. There are a good 20-25 different types of mechanics. Like ground target AoE, PointBlank AoE, Target AoE's etc..

Originally posted by madazz

Originally posted by nariusseldon

It is not about the set of hot keys. You don't have to have all the abilities available at all time. In fact, some restriction is good for the meta game of finding good skill builds.

However, if you talk abotu the sheer number of different abilities, i would say D3 (not a MMO though). You have abilities from transforming yourself, to forming a time bubble, to summoning dogs than blow them up. I have not seen an MMO with the diversity of the stuff you can do. Not even WOW.

So the OP asks for an MMO as an example and you bring up D3 anyways? Lots of help buddy!

 

OFT

But this is the reason people are confusing the meaning of a MMO around here.

OT

check out Elder Scrolls Online. Has tab target and aiming combat, but only 6 skills. but has main hand and off hand skills.

And also has lots of other factors to combat like classes, and weapon type and armor type.

While I love TSW, I dont think it requires alot of personal skill to be good in combat. There are many terrible players who go Assault Rifle path, get good gear and AOE the crap out of everything from afar. All you need - spam few buttons randomly.

Not to mention you only limited to a handful of skills compared to 70+ unique abilities in WoW and almost as much in AoC

The most skill dependent non-fps combat system would be the one Guild Wars 1 uses. Your skillbar held 7 skills + 1 elite skill. You could dodge projectiles, body block, flank or backstab, and it had a very inspired skill design.

Its hard to make traditional MMO combat better than that. A testament to this is that it is one of the few and one of the first to have international e-sports tournaments in the genre.

That's hard to say.  In terms of combat envolving a group and PVE I would say LOTRO. The classes have a lot of synergy along with Fellowship maneuvers.  For solo PVE then LOTRO ties with WOW in my opinion becuase the tab target and hotbar setup make combat go about the same.  For PVP it's hard to beat the fuildity and responsiveness of WOW but if you want something that's more based on skill and not gear then either GW or GW2 (already wearing flame retardant suit).   There might be some comparable Asian games but I tend to not play those becuase I can't stand their art style.

Yes of course these are based on opinion, yada yada.

AoC is really nice-you can hit multiple foes, nice daisy chaining. All in all a rather nice combat system. My highest was Like 30 there, but it is enough time to form an opinion. Ranged classes are, however, EXTREMELY vanilla(unless something drastically changed in last year).

I've played LoTRO to 30 as well and I was simply stunned by all the procs, chains and all other nice cookies. What irritates me the most in LoTRO are actually two things: Engine issues(animations felt so sluggish and fake-it's their problem anyhow) and me abandoning LoTRO for the (empty) promises of GW2(shame on me). It has awesome combat but it is not portrayed nearly as good as it could.

WoW-it is simply Vanilla. You either Like it or you do not. Simple as that!

TSW-I did not play. But if it is anything like GW1(Like a LOT people say it is)-then it possibly has got the best combat(evolved GW 1 combat). I suspect it could be...

Guild Wars-the original one has one of the best combats. It is really brainy when it needs to be, twitchy when it needs to be and fun all the time. Also EXTREMELY customisable(don't be seduced by metagame nonsense-play what YOU WANT, because you CAN).

Guild Wars 2-it sucks. Spammy as hell. Zergy(just unload all the AoE spells in the combo finisher). Does not know what it even wants to be lol! On one hand you have dodge rolling which is copied straight from action games and on the other you have all those effects targetting ground-copied DIRECTLY from RTSs. One can not simply mash together those two genres and call it a day. It is fun if you Like mindless fun tho.

I'd say GW 1 or LoTRO from my personal experience. TSW could also be up there.

Note: The contrast between the first Guild Wars and the second is too much to bear, lol!

The hardest combat system for me to master was Guild Wars 1, christ playing melee was ridiculous in competitive play. Micro managing your swing timer so that you can maintain movement while attacking took so long for me to get down. Combine that with having to learn what each of the 400+ skills. . . it was the first and only game where I actually had to glue myself to a god damn wiki page.

However there are combat systems like Cabal that were so complex and required so much skill, that in pvp many skills were blacklisted simply because players could not function at that level. Where high level play came down to how good you were at using third party macro systems and your ability to hold a target when that target is forcing you to drop target every 0.4s!

Original pre-nerf AoC combat system was the most advanced melee system to date, no  game even comes close to matching the complexity and flexibility of that system. 

People often bring up tera, well tera coukldnt hold a candle to the original AoC combat system.

Why so many people consider GW1 hard to master? I remember when I started playing it, Ive made max level monk, put some skills on hotbar and after 2 hours of arena matches I was fairly confident in my healer/support abilities. Now try to heal with shaman or priest in WoW if you never played the game before.

Originally posted by mindw0rk

While I love TSW, I dont think it requires alot of personal skill to be good in combat. There are many terrible players who go Assault Rifle path, get good gear and AOE the crap out of everything from afar. All you need - spam few buttons randomly.

Not to mention you only limited to a handful of skills compared to 70+ unique abilities in WoW and almost as much in AoC

 

I do see that often, however then when they hit Nightmare level they get carried because they think its their only job to sit and pew the boss.

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Originally posted by mrw0lf
Planetside

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Fail.

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Originally posted by mindw0rk
Why so many people consider GW1 hard to master? I remember when I started playing it, Ive made max level monk, put some skills on hotbar and after 2 hours of arena matches I was fairly confident in my healer/support abilities. Now try to heal with shaman or priest in WoW if you never played the game before.

 

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Random arenas in GW1 were nothing compared to the real competition in GvG. WoW PVP has nothing on that. The skill and knowledge you had to have to play at the top tiers in monthly tournaments just cant be obtained in 2 hours. Sure GW1 was easy to get into but really hard to master.

While GW1 had way more build customization, diverse skills and a better PVP game mode GW2 has the best combat mechanics and feel to it. Not only are there many and more diverse mechanics than most MMOs have but they are also very polished.

Originally posted by Harmstrong

 

Of every single MMO on the market or in beta, which has the most evolved combat mechanics. What I mean by this is what game has the largest set of functional combat mechanisms? What non-fps mmo would you describe as the most skill dependent? How many buttons and/or hotkeys does it take to implement the full set of features for any particular class?

Cheers,

Harmstrong

 

Non-FPS? Best unique combat that is very fluid. Almost addicting becasue it requires real player skill? If you're skilled enough you can beat 24 man raid content solo?

Vindictus.

Nothing else comes close. To bad it is run by a company that just doesn't know how to run a game.