Trending Games | Star Citizen | Warhammer 40K: Eternal Crusade | Guild Wars 2 | Landmark

  Network:  FPSguru RTSguru
Login:  Password:   Remember?  
Show Quick Gamelist Jump to Random Game
Members:2,920,406 Users Online:0
Games:760  Posts:6,311,539
Recent forum postsRSS
Active threads
Cloud view
List all forums
General Forums
Developers Corner General Discussion
Popular Game Forums
Click a status to find game forum
Game Forums
Click a letter to find game forum
A-C
2029 Online 2112: Revolution 2Moons 4Story 8BitMMO 9 Dragons A Mystical Land A Tale in the Desert III A3 ACE Online ARGO Online Aberoth Absolute Force Online Absolute Terror Achaea Adellion Aerrevan Aetolia, the Midnight Age Age of Armor Age of Conan Age of Empires Online Age of Mourning Age of Wulin Age of Wushu Aida Arenas Aika Aion Albion Online Alganon All Points Bulletin (APB) Allods Online Altis Gates Amazing World Anarchy Online Ancients of Fasaria Andromeda 5 Angels Online Angry Birds Epic Anime Ninja Anime Pirates Anime Trumps Anmynor Anno Online Applo Arcane Hearts Arcane Legends ArchLord ArcheAge Archeblade Archlord X Ascend: Hand of Kul Asda 2 Asda Story Ashen Empires Asheron's Call Asheron's Call 2 Astera Online Astonia III Astro Empires Astro Lords: Oort CLoud Asura Force Atlantica Online Atriarch Aura Kingdom Aurora Blade Auto Assault Avatar Star Battle Dawn Battle Dawn Galaxies Battle for Graxia Battle of 3 Kingdoms Battle of the Immortals Battlecruiser Online Battlestar Galactica Online Battlestar Reloaded Beyond Protocol Black Aftermath Black Desert Black Gold Black Prophecy Black Prophecy Tactics: Nexus Conflict Blacklight Retribution Blade & Soul Blade Hunter Blade Wars Blazing Throne Bless Blitz 1941 Blood and Jade Bloodlines Champions Boot Hill Heroes Borderlands 2 Borderlands: The Pre-Sequel Bound by Flame Bounty Bay Online Brain Storm Bravada Bravely Default Bravely Second Brawl Busters. Brick-Force Bright Shadow Bullet Run Business Tycoon Online CTRacer Cabal Online Caesary Call of Camelot Call of Gods Call of Thrones Camelot Unchained Canaan Online Cardmon Hero Cartoon Universe CasinoRPG Cast & Conquer Castle Empire Castlot Celtic Heroes Champions Online Champions of Regnum Chaos Online Child of Light Chrono Tales Citadel of Sorcery CitiesXL Citizen Zero City of Decay City of Heroes City of Steam City of Transformers City of Villains Civilization Online Clan Lord Clash of Clans Cloud Nine Club Penguin Colony of War Command & Conquer: Tiberium Alliances Company of Heroes Online Conquer Online Conquer Online 3 Continent of the Ninth (C9) Core Blaze Core Exiles Corum Online Craft of Gods Crimecraft Crimelife 2 Cronous Crota II Crusaders of Solaris Cultures Online Cyber Monster 2 Cyberpunk 2077 Céiron Wars
D-F
D&D Online DC Universe DK Online DOTA DOTA 2 DUST 514 DV8: Exile Dalethaan Dance Groove Online Dark Age of Camelot Dark Ages Dark Legends Dark Orbit Dark Relic: Prelude Dark Solstice Dark Souls 2 Dark and Light DarkEden Online DarkSpace Darkblood Online Darkest Dungeon Darkfall Darkfall: Unholy Wars Darkwind: War on Wheels Das Tal Dawn of Fantasy Dawntide DayZ Dead Earth Dead Frontier Dead Island Dead Island 2 Dead Island: Riptide Deco Online Deep Down Deepworld Defiance Deicide Online Dekaron Demons at the Horizon Desert Operations Destiny Diablo 3 Diamonin Digimon Battle Dino Storm Disciple Divergence Divina Divine Souls Divinity: Original Sin Dofus Dominus Online Dragon Age: Inquisition Dragon Ball Online Dragon Born Online Dragon Crusade Dragon Empires Dragon Eternity Dragon Fin Soup Dragon Nest Dragon Oath Dragon Pals Dragon Raja Dragon's Call Dragon's Call II Dragon's Prophet DragonSky DragonSoul Dragona Dragonica Dragons and Titans Drakengard 3 Dream of Mirror Online Dreamland Online Dreamlords: The Reawakening Drift City Duels Dungeon Blitz Dungeon Fighter Online Dungeon Overlord Dungeon Party Dungeon Rampage Dungeon Runners Dungeon of the Endless Dynastica Dynasty Warriors Online Dynasty of the Magi EIN (Epicus Incognitus) EVE Online Earth Eternal Earth and Beyond Earthrise Eclipse War Ecol Tactics Online Eden Eternal Edge of Space Einherjar - The Viking's Blood Elder Scrolls Online Eldevin Elf Online Elite: Dangerous Embers of Caerus Emil Chronicle Online Empire Empire & State Empire Craft Empire Universe 3 EmpireQuest Empires of Galldon End of Nations Endless Ages Endless Blue Moon Online Endless Online Entropia Universe EpicDuel Erebus: Travia Reborn Eredan Eternal Blade Eternal Lands Eternal Saga Ether Fields Ether Saga Online Eudemons Online EuroGangster EverEmber Online EverQuest Next EverQuest Online Adventures Evernight Everquest Everquest II Evony Exarch Exorace F.E.A.R. Online Face of Mankind Fairyland Online Fall of Rome Fallen Earth Fallen Sword Fallout 4 Fallout Online Family Guy Online Fantage Fantasy Earth Zero Fantasy Realm Online Fantasy Tales Online Fantasy Worlds: Rhynn Faunasphere Faxion Online Fearless Fantasy Ferentus Ferion Fiesta Online Final Fantasy Type-0 HD Final Fantasy XI Final Fantasy XIV Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn Firefall Fists of Fu Florensia Flyff Football Manager Live Football Superstars Force of Arms Forge Forsaken Uprising Forsaken World Fortnite Fortuna Forum for Discussion of Everlight Freaky Creatures Free Realms Freesky Online Freeworld Fung Wan Online Furcadia Fury Fusion Fall
G-L
GalaXseeds Galactic Command Online Game of Thrones: Seven Kingdoms Gameglobe Gate To Heavens Gates of Andaron Gatheryn Gauntlet Gekkeiju Online Ghost Online Ghost Recon Online Gladiatus Glitch Global Agenda Global Soccer Gloria Victis Glory of Gods GoGoRacer Goal Line Blitz Gods and Heroes GodsWar Online Golemizer Golf Star GoonZu Online Graal Kingdoms Granado Espada Online Grand Chase Grand Fantasia Grepolis Grimlands Guild Wars Guild Wars 2 Guild Wars Factions Guild Wars Nightfall H1Z1 Habbo Hotel Hailan Rising HaloSphere2 Haven & Hearth Hawken Heart Forth Alicia Hearthstone: Heroes of Warcraft Helbreath Hellgate Hellgate: London Hello Kitty Online Hero Online Hero Zero Hero's Journey Hero: 108 Online HeroSmash Heroes & Generals Heroes & Legends: Conquerors of Kolhar Heroes in the Sky Heroes of Atlan Heroes of Bestia Heroes of Gaia Heroes of Might and Magic Online Heroes of Thessalonica Heroes of Three Kingdoms Heroes of the Storm Hex Holic Online Hostile Space Hunter Blade Huxley Icewind Dale: Enhanced Edition Illutia Illyriad Immortals USA Imperator Imperian Inferno Legend Infestation: Survivor Stories Infinite Crisis Infinity Infinity Iris Online Iron Grip: Marauders Irth Worlds Island Forge Islands of War Istaria: Chronicles of the Gifted Jade Dynasty Jagged Alliance Online Juggernaut Jumpgate Jumpgate Evolution KAL Online Kakele Online Kaos War Karos Online Kartuga Kicks Online King of Kings 3 Kingdom Heroes Kingdom Under Fire II Kingdom of Drakkar Kingory Kings Era Kings and Legends Kings of the Realm KingsRoad Kitsu Saga Kiwarriors Knight Age Knight Online Knights of Dream City Kothuria Kung Foo! Kunlun Online Kyn L.A.W. LEGO Universe La Tale Land of Chaos Online Landmark Lands of Hope: Redemption LastChaos League of Angels League of Legends - Clash of Fates Legend of Edda: Vengeance Legend of Golden Plume Legend of Grimrock 2 Legend of Katha Legend of Mir 2 Legend of Mir 3 Legendary Champions Lego Minifigures Online Lichdom: Battlemage Life is Feudal Light of Nova Lime Odyssey Line of Defense Lineage Lineage Eternal: Twilight Resistance Lineage II Linkrealms Loong Online Lord of the Rings Online Lords Online Lords of the Fallen Lost Saga Lucent Heart Lunia Lusternia: Age of Ascension Luvinia World
M-Q
MU Online Mabinogi Maestia: Rise of Keledus MagiKnights Magic Barrage Magic World Online Manga Fighter MapleStory Martial Heroes Marvel Heroes Marvel Super Hero Squad Online Marvel: Avengers Alliance Mass Effect 4 MechWarrior Online Megaten Meridian 59 : Evolution Merlin MetalMercs Metaplace Metin 2 MicroVolts Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor Midkemia Online Might & Magic Heroes: Kingdoms Might & Magic X: Legacy MilMo Minecraft Mini Fighter Minions of Mirth Ministry of War Monato Esprit Monkey King Online Monkey Quest Monster & Me Monster Madness Online MonsterMMORPG Moonlight Online: Tales of Eternal Blood Moonrise Mordavia Mortal Online Mourning My Lands Myst Online: URU Live Myth Angels Online Myth War Myth War 2 Mythborne Mytheon Mythic Saga Mythos N.E.O Online NIDA Online Nadirim Naviage: The Power of Capital Navy Field Need for Speed World Nemexia Neo's Land NeoSteam Neocron Nether Neverwinter Nexus: The Kingdom Of The Winds NinjaTrick NosTale Novus Aeterno Oberin Odin Quest Odyssey RPG Ogre Island Omerta 3 Online Boxing Manager Onverse Oort Online Order & Chaos Online Order of Magic Original Blood Origins Return Origins of Malu Orion's Belt Otherland Forums OverSoul Overkings Overwatch Oz Online Oz World Pandora Saga Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen Panzar Parabellum Parallel Kingdom Parfait Station Path of Exile Pathfinder Online Perfect World Perpetuum Online Persona V Phantasy Star Online 2 Phantasy Star Universe Phoenix Dynasty Online Phylon Pi Story Picaroon Pillars of Eternity Pirate Galaxy Pirate Storm Pirate101 PirateKing Online Pirates of the Burning Sea Pirates of the Caribbean Online Pixie Hollow Planeshift Planet Arkadia Planet Calypso PlanetSide 2 Planetside Planets³ Playboy Manager Pocket Legends Pockie Ninja Pockie Pirates Pockie Saints Pokémon X and Y PoxNora Prime World Prime: Battle for Dominus Priston Tale Priston Tale II Prius Online Prodigy Project Blackout Project Gorgon Project Powder Project Titan Forums Project Wiki Project Zomboid Puzzle Pirates Quest for Infamy Quickhit Football
R-S
R2 Online RAN Online RF Online ROSE Online Rage of 3 Kingdoms Ragnarok Online Ragnarok Online II RaiderZ Rail Nation Rakion Rappelz RappelzSEA Ravenmarch Realm Fighter Realm of Sierra Realm of the Mad God Realm of the Titans Realms Online Rebel Galaxy Reclamation Red Stone Red War: Edem's Curse Regnum Online Remnant Knights Renaissance Repulse Requiem: Memento Mori Rift RiotZone Rise Rise of Dragonian Era Rise of Empire Rise of the Tycoon Risen 3: Titan Lords Rising of King Risk Your Life Rivality Rockfree Rohan: Blood Feud Role Play Worlds Roll n Rock Roma Victor Romadoria Rosh Online Roto X Rubies of Eventide Ruin Online Rumble Fighter Runes of Magic Runescape Rust Rusty Hearts Ryzom S4 League SAGA SD Gundam Capsule Fighter Online SMITE SUN Sacred 3 Sagramore Salem SaySayGirls Scarlet Blade Scions of Fate Seal Online: Evolution Second Chance Heroes Second Life Secret of the Solstice Seed Serenia Fantasy Seven Seas Saga Seven Souls Online Sevencore Shadow Realms Shadow of Legend Shadowbane Shadowgate Shadowrun Online Shaiya Shards Online Shattered Galaxy Sho Online Shot Online Shroud of the Avatar SideQuest Siege on Stars Sigonyth: Desert Eternity Silkroad Online Skyblade Skyforge SmashMuck Champions Smoo Online Soldier Front Soul Master Soul Order Online Soul of Guardian South Park: The Stick of Truth Space Heroes Universe Sparta: War of Empires Spellcasters Sphere Spiral Knights Spirit Tales Splash Fighters Squad Wars Star Citizen Star Conflict Star Sonata 2 Star Stable Star Supremacy Star Trek Online Star Trek: Infinite Space Star Wars Galaxies Star Wars: Clone Wars Adventures Star Wars: The Old Republic StarQuest Online Starbound Stargate Worlds Starlight Story Starpires State of Decay SteelWar Online Stone Age 2 Stormfall: Age of War Stormthrone Storybricks Stronghold Kingdoms Styx: Master of Shadows Sudden Attack Supremacy 1914 Supreme Destiny Sword Girls Sword of Destiny: Rise of Aions SwordX Swords of Heavens Swordsman
T-Z
TERA TS Online TUG Tabula Rasa Tactica Online Tales Runner Tales of Fantasy Tales of Pirates Tales of Pirates II Tales of Solaris Talisman Online Tamer Saga Tank Ace Tantra Online Tatsumaki: Land at War Terra Militaris TerraWorld Online Terraria Thang Online The 4th Coming The Agency The Aurora World The Banner Saga The Black Watchmen The Chronicle The Chronicles of Spellborn The Crew The Division The Epic Might The Hammers End The Incredible Adventures of Van Helsing The Incredible Adventures of Van Helsing 2 The Legend of Ares The Lost Titans The Matrix Online The Mighty Quest for Epic Loot The Missing Ink The Mummy Online The Myth of Soma The Pride of Taern The Realm Online The Repopulation The Secret World The Sims Online The Strategems The West The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt Theralon There Therian Saga Thrones of Chaos Tibia Tibia Micro Edition Tiger Knight Titan Siege Titans of Time Toontown Online Top Speed Topia Online Torchlight Torment: Tides of Numenera Total Domination Transformers Universe Transistor Transverse Traveller AR Travia Online Travian Triad Wars Trials of Ascension Tribal Hero Tribal Wars Tribes Universe Trickster Online Trove Troy Online True Fantasy Live Online Turf Battles Twelve Sky Twelve Sky 2 Twilight War Tynon U.B. Funkeys UFO Online URDEAD Online Ultima Forever: Quest for the Avatar Ultima Online Ultima X: Odyssey Ultimate Naruto Ultimate Soccer Boss Uncharted Waters Online Undercover 2: Merc Wars Underlight Unification Wars Universe Online Utopia Valkyrie Sky Vampire Lord Online Vanguard: Saga of Heroes Vanquish Space Vector City Racers Vendetta Online Victory - Age of Racing Vindictus Virtonomics Vis Gladius Visions of Zosimos VoidExpanse Voyage Century Online W.E.L.L. Online WAR (Warhammer Online) WAR2 Glory WYD Global Wakfu War Thunder War of 2012 War of Angels War of Legends War of Mercenaries War of Thrones War of the Immortals WarFlow Waren Story Warflare Wargame1942 Warhammer 40,000: Eternal Crusade Warhammer 40K: Dark Millennium Online Warhammer Online: Wrath of Heroes Warkeepers Warrior Epic Wartune Wasteland 2 WebLords Wild West Online WildStar Wind of Luck WindSlayer 2 Wings of Destiny Wish Wizard101 Wizardry Online Wizards and Champions Wonder King Wonderland Online World Golf Tour World of Battles World of Darkness World of Heroes World of Kung Fu World of Pirates World of Speed World of Tanks World of Tanks Generals World of Warcraft World of Warplanes World of Warriors World of Warships World of the Living Dead WorldAlpha Wurm Online Xenoblade Chronicles: X Xenocell Xiah Xsyon Xulu YS Online Yitien ZU Online Zentia Zero Online Zero Online: The Andromeda Crisis Zodiac Online Zombies Ate My Pizza eRepublik

MMORPG.com Discussion Forums

EVE Online

EVE Online 

Jita (General)  » Should CCP be ashamed of themselves?

3 Pages « 1 2 3 Search
59 posts found
  Loktofeit

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 12405

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, ArcheAge, and Combat Arms

1/12/13 7:43:43 PM#41
Originally posted by Garkan
Originally posted by Loktofeit

edit: nm

 

What Obi said.

It was just an attempt at some speculative discussion about why CCP cannot get anywhere with WoD. Not a bloody college thesis. Jeez, lose some of the seriousness about how everything has evidence. You know this is a forum right? Where people post opinions?
 
Do you sit with a friend and demand they bring evidence to the discussion. Besides the info is out there, like the presentations on YouTube. They are easy enough to find, do you really need hand holding for that too?

Interesting. Before my edit, my comment was basically two things -

1) that it would help if you explained what information you are basing your stance on. Just asking you to share where you are getting that 'CCP cannot get anywhere' with the game. As far as I know, they are still working on it. As far as I know, they haven't shared how far along it is, but evidently you know so it's not unreasonable to ask where you are getting that.

2) several people have asked for more information in order to be able to discuss it with you and they have received defensive responses, snarky remarks and ad hominems.

Let's try again.

 

Hi, I'm Lok. You asked a question and made a statement that are both interesting

"So the question is why cant CCP, an experienced Dev create the game they have years to work on?"

"CCP cannot get anywhere with WoD"

This is something I hadn't heard before. Can you share with us your information on the development of World of Darkness. I haven't seen much out there and I was under the impression they were still working on it, although I don't know how far along they are. To answer the title, though: No, I don't feel CCP should be ashamed of themselves as they seem to be doing well with their existing title, releasing a second title, integrating those two, and working on the third title, as well.

 

 

 

"And wikipedia is as accurate as Britannica. Wikipedia is very reliable. You would be hard pressed to find a more reliable source for these kinds of things." -fivoroth

  WhiteLantern

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/27/10
Posts: 2782

1/12/13 7:45:59 PM#42
Originally posted by ObiClownobi
 

Thank you for clarifying, I can now answer.

No, CCP should not be ashamed because of the speculations of yourself.

Funniest thing I've read all week. Thanks!

 

/thread

I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil

  lizardbones

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10953

I think with my heart and move with my head.-Kongos

1/12/13 7:47:21 PM#43


Originally posted by Heretique
Honestly, whatever the reason for putting WoD on the back burner probably had to be a decent one.

CCP did a great job with EvE and they would do the same for WoD, not rush it.




It all comes down to money. The expended a bunch of it, and apparently had to back track because their players changed their minds.

I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  Garkan

Gurista

Joined: 11/03/07
Posts: 544

Thug, Thief, Killer, Pirate

 
OP  1/12/13 8:02:16 PM#44
Originally posted by ObiClownobi
Originally posted by Garkan
Originally posted by Loktofeit

edit: nm

 

What Obi said.

It was just an attempt at some speculative discussion about why CCP cannot get anywhere with WoD. Not a bloody college thesis. Jeez, lose some of the seriousness about how everything has evidence. You know this is a forum right? Where people post opinions?
 
Do you sit with a friend and demand they bring evidence to the discussion. Besides the info is out there, like the presentations on YouTube. They are easy enough to find, do you really need hand holding for that too?

It's a simple principle, you made the statement, you provide the evidence for the statement, why would people search the Internet for information that only you say exists.

I have lost "the seriousness", I don't take what you say seriously.

I did not present a "statement" I posted some opinions, when someone tells you they like a particular brand of coffee do you demand they present evidence for that? Get off your high horse and drop the pseudo intellectualism and realize a forum like this is for presenting opinions. You have added nothing of value to the topic except to try and troll the opinion I posted.
 
All I was really trying to say is that if one small independent dev can turn a complicated PnP game into a game why cant CCP, not write a bloody thesis or hand hold people that cant be bothered to go find out any info themselves.

Currently playing:

EVE online (Ruining low sec one hotdrop at a time)

Gravity Rush,
Dishonoured: The Knife of Dunwall.

(Waiting for) Metro: Last Light,
Company of Heroes II.

  Garkan

Gurista

Joined: 11/03/07
Posts: 544

Thug, Thief, Killer, Pirate

 
OP  1/12/13 8:14:43 PM#45
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by Garkan
Originally posted by Loktofeit

edit: nm

 

What Obi said.

It was just an attempt at some speculative discussion about why CCP cannot get anywhere with WoD. Not a bloody college thesis. Jeez, lose some of the seriousness about how everything has evidence. You know this is a forum right? Where people post opinions?
 
Do you sit with a friend and demand they bring evidence to the discussion. Besides the info is out there, like the presentations on YouTube. They are easy enough to find, do you really need hand holding for that too?

Interesting. Before my edit, my comment was basically two things -

1) that it would help if you explained what information you are basing your stance on. Just asking you to share where you are getting that 'CCP cannot get anywhere' with the game. As far as I know, they are still working on it. As far as I know, they haven't shared how far along it is, but evidently you know so it's not unreasonable to ask where you are getting that.

2) several people have asked for more information in order to be able to discuss it with you and they have received defensive responses, snarky remarks and ad hominems.

Let's try again.

 

Hi, I'm Lok. You asked a question and made a statement that are both interesting

"So the question is why cant CCP, an experienced Dev create the game they have years to work on?"

"CCP cannot get anywhere with WoD"

This is something I hadn't heard before. Can you share with us your information on the development of World of Darkness. I haven't seen much out there and I was under the impression they were still working on it, although I don't know how far along they are. To answer the title, though: No, I don't feel CCP should be ashamed of themselves as they seem to be doing well with their existing title, releasing a second title, integrating those two, and working on the third title, as well.

 

 

 

Once again I am not presenting a "statement" I voiced an opinion. In this case my opinion comes from me following CCP for 7 years. They bought White Wolf quite a while ago. I think the game is going nowhere based on the terribleness of the test bed for WoD and the way that if anything significant was happening with it we would never hear the end about it. 
 
For both Dust and EVE are massively promoted, they are constantly making videos showing behind the scenes and every stage of development. Yet we see or hear absolutely nothing about World of Darkness. 
 
My opinion that its not going well come from the way the test bed didn't work out so well and from a company thats constantly promoting their other two products have barely told us a single thing or shown no clips in all these years.

Currently playing:

EVE online (Ruining low sec one hotdrop at a time)

Gravity Rush,
Dishonoured: The Knife of Dunwall.

(Waiting for) Metro: Last Light,
Company of Heroes II.

  yutty

Novice Member

Joined: 10/18/04
Posts: 190

1/12/13 8:18:15 PM#46
CCP should be ashammed of the greediness of that Monocule thingy they where trying to sell, the joke of a game dust, and cutting back on the development wod to focus on dust and eve from the backlash.
  ObiClownobi

Novice Member

Joined: 12/02/12
Posts: 189

1/12/13 8:24:31 PM#47
Originally posted by Garkan
Originally posted by ObiClownobi
Originally posted by Garkan
Originally posted by Loktofeit

edit: nm

 

What Obi said.

It was just an attempt at some speculative discussion about why CCP cannot get anywhere with WoD. Not a bloody college thesis. Jeez, lose some of the seriousness about how everything has evidence. You know this is a forum right? Where people post opinions?
 
Do you sit with a friend and demand they bring evidence to the discussion. Besides the info is out there, like the presentations on YouTube. They are easy enough to find, do you really need hand holding for that too?

It's a simple principle, you made the statement, you provide the evidence for the statement, why would people search the Internet for information that only you say exists.

I have lost "the seriousness", I don't take what you say seriously.

I did not present a "statement" I posted some opinions, when someone tells you they like a particular brand of coffee do you demand they present evidence for that? Get off your high horse and drop the pseudo intellectualism and realize a forum like this is for presenting opinions. You have added nothing of value to the topic except to try and troll the opinion I posted.
 
All I was really trying to say is that if one small independent dev can turn a complicated PnP game into a game why cant CCP, not write a bloody thesis or hand hold people that cant be bothered to go find out any info themselves.

If someone tells me they like a brand of coffee I take their opinion as is, when someone tells me Nestlé are struggling to manufacture their coffee and that another company is beating them on coffee making efficiency I ask where they got that information.


"It's a sandbox, if you are not willing to create a castle then all you have is sand" - jtcgs

  kattehus

Novice Member

Joined: 11/03/07
Posts: 374

"Life is just a test - a test to see if you can survive death." - Myself.

1/12/13 8:26:57 PM#48

Seeing as I'm busy reading up for my exam, I did not read the 5 pages of comments. Sorry if the following has already been said.

A singleplayer game cannot be compared with an MMO. They're two very different beasts. Also, just because CD Projekt is promising all these things, you can't say that it'll happen. Look at Dungeons & Dragons Online; Just because the rules are there etc., they do not always translate well and are often either neclected or left alone because of the "complexity" of translating.

Besides this, having an open world is, apparently, hard. (I base this on the amount of both MMO- and SP-games without an open world). Then take into account stuff like decisions that matter to the game world. This is harder in an MMO (for obvious reasons), but apparently also hard in SP games (I base this on the amount of SP games where your actions don't matter).

 

Also, a lot of the stuff CCP have been doing with WOD (according to press releases, I think - or maybe just dev's speaking), a lot of the stuff they're doing wouldn't be possible a couple of years ago. They've also released a couple of videos showing off the graphics and physics of WOD (at least what they've done thus far, such as having a dress that correctly interacts with the surroundings; like sliding down the stairs). Their character editor is (or was, I havn't followed other character editors) first class, with the ability to pull various parts of the body to shape it (they've brought it to EVE; I assume because they wanted to test it on real people :P).

Granted, there's VERY little news on WOD's development. CCP are, and who can blame them, developing on their cash cow(s): EVE and DUST. But they are, last I heard (some press release, and/or devblog talking re: layoffs), still developing on WOD. But they want it to be the best it can be - and do not want to develop something that'll fail because it's too different from what people are expecting.

CD Projekt's Witcher franchise is.. Nice, I guess. I havn't played the games yet, but they're sitting in my backlog. However, having the privilige of being able to focus on one game is an advantage. They're also working on a singleplayer game, which, as I stated previously, is a different beast.

I do, however, think there are several reasons why there aren't more games out there like the Elderscrolls series. I believe it's hard. And that's why I also think CD Projekt may not know what they've gotten themselves into. But who knows. Maybe it'll turn out better than the D&D translations that have been. But even if it does come out before WOD, it proves nothing. Because they're so different.

 

Lastly, no. I do not think CCP should be ashamed of themselves. They have a bunch of good things, and a bunch of bad things. Hopefully the first outweigh the latter, but who knows? I'm wanting a WOD mmo as much as the next guy, but I don't want another WoW clone (or similar). I want a game that I can be proud of playing; something that has translated well. Something like the singleplayer games, but bigger and better. All of this is hard to do. And as such, no. They've got nothing to be ashamed of (or, rather, not in this case).

 

In summation. CD Projekt has taken on a beast of a challenge, but it's a SP game. Therefore, they cannot properly be compared (CD Projekt's project and WOD). It doesn't matter which game comes out first. As such, CCP shouldn't be ashamed.

FakeEdit: I would find some links, but, as stated in the top of this reply, I'm busy reading for my exam.

Real edit:

Originally posted by yutty
CCP should be ashammed of the greediness of that Monocule thingy they where trying to sell, the joke of a game dust, and cutting back on the development wod to focus on dust and eve from the backlash.

So they should be ashamed that they reacted to the outcry of their community, and decided to actually focus on their communitys game of choice? They should, perhaps, be ashamed that it took an outcry of that magnitude for them to focus on their released games (even though the community had been asking for ages).
 Also, it takes resources to develop something; they don't have many. They took a managerial decision and focused on what people were screaming at them to focus on. It's too bad that it hit WOD development, but, alas, Newton's laws of motion also play into stuff such as this.

Real edit #2:
I'd love to see where you get all the information from, though. You know, the whole "next gen graphics", "detailed world", etc. Because, from where I'm sitting, that's more-or-less what every half-decent developer will promise their fanbase during the announcement/development of a game. Words and actions are, however, completely different things.


|< I 1 1 I |\| 6 _ Z 0 |\/| 8 I 3 5 _ 5 I |\| C 3 _ 1 9 9 0

-Actively playing Eve.
Follow my tweet (:

  lizardbones

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10953

I think with my heart and move with my head.-Kongos

1/12/13 8:41:10 PM#49

CCP hasn't been hiding anything from anyone. According to this article, they said they took on too much, and had to scale back. Eve and Dust are the priority items. WoD is still being worked on.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-06-08-world-of-darkness-mmo-in-active-development

It took them five years to develop Eve, and another three or four to really get going with the game. I don't see why WoD would be something they rush through, especially as a low priority item.

I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  Baitness

Novice Member

Joined: 10/22/06
Posts: 153

1/13/13 12:05:28 AM#50
On top of the fact that CCP is trying to make an mmo versus a singleplayer game, keep in mind that CCP also has to continually develop content for eve that the playerbase likes, and that a large part of their income gets invested directly back into the game.  When incarna was released, players threatened to jump games (many did) due to not liking the focusing of resources on WiS (or any content outside of internet spaceships).  CCP went into damage control and I'd say recovered from it quite well, but EVE's playerbase is generally well informed, aware of CCP's reliance on their sub, and vengeful.  Suffice to say the majority of CCP's income will always go back into EVE.
  ChromeBallz

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/31/04
Posts: 277

1/14/13 5:34:56 AM#51


Originally posted by Garkan

Originally posted by sketocafe CCP is making an MMO, CD Project is making a standalone RPG. So no.
Derp, I covered that. Fact is the game CD Projekt are attempting is as complex and as challenging as creating an MMO. The challenges they face are different but both are difficult in there own way.  CD Projekt are creating RPG mechanics covering over 4700 pages in 44 books, in a game filled with huge detail and no set linear path. Its basically trying to create something as detail heavy and as free formed as Morrowind combined with one of Biowares better RPGs like DA:O. The game will also have true next gen graphics. This is not something thats easily done

Eh, those 44 books are not all rules...

The core rules are explained in a single book. That book has a lot of lore in it aswell, in addition to item descriptions, examples etc.

The other 43 books MIGHT have one page worth of additions or revisions, but most of them are more lore, items etc.


That said, a multiplayer game is a vastly different animal than a singleplayer game. The latter is infinitely easier to produce, which is why they usually seem a lot more intricate. As a dev, you have a lot more freedom making a game when you only have one player to worry about, and his interaction with the game world. You can have the game change around just for the player, so to speak.

In a multiplayer game you have to design for interactions between both the game world AND the player - Depending on the amount of players you want involved it gets infinitely more complex to design properly. You can't really have the game change just for one player, it has to change for everyone. But how do you do this? Do you block swabs of content off because one single player did something specific? Do you leave everything as it is even though some groups of players have done different things to make change happen? How do you balance out skill levels and player abilities so that a small group of players can't game the system to make it impossible for the others to play?

So many more factors enter into designing a multiplayer game that it's not funny anymore - Especially RPG's where the interaction is not limited to 'point at something and shoot it'. Even in shooters it can be difficult to get it right.

And lastly, a singleplayer game doesn't 'need' the same amount of content as a multiplayer game. A SP game can be finished in a weekend, maybe a week of fulltime play, and people will be content, shelving it to maybe pull it out again after a year or two.

A multiplayer game has to be intersting to play for not just one weekend, but every weekend. This brings even MORE issues to the table compared to singleplayer games.

It's not even close to as easy as you make it out to be...

Playing: EVE
Played (more than 1 month): WoW, Tera, GW2, L2, WAR, AoC, DnL, GW, LotRO, EQ2, TOR, CoH, STO, TSW
Tried (trial, up to 1 month): EQ, UO, AO, EnB, TCoS, Fury, Ryzom, EU, DDO, TR, RF, CO, Aion, VG

  leoo88556

Novice Member

Joined: 6/28/12
Posts: 136

1/14/13 7:26:03 AM#52

As far as I know, they're currently doing a 3 weeks long, global, interal feature testing of WoDMMO RIGHT NOW!! Still a long wait a head of us, but at least now we know that they're actually doing some progress. There're some tiny information on twitter and the WoDnews website if you like.

Ok, now back to the topic. CCP have problems they need to iron out, but any major project like this will take not only time, but also a certain amount of luck. The developement of World of Darkness MMO might not be as smooth as we hoped, but that's just the way it is. In my opinion, NO ONE should be ashamed. I'm sure the developers at Atlanta office and White Wolf are doing everything they can to prevent the game from dying in its cradle, even if it mean that they have to work on some side projects for EVE & DUST and will never get credit for whatsoever. As for CCP, I don't mean to sound condescending but... do you even know how much money you'll need to support a sixty people team for just one month? I'm currently working in a similar industry and... well lets just say I believe every single day while WoD is still not profitable, guys at CCP will ask their children to pray sincerely for the game before they go to bed.

As for the part you compare a MMO to a single player RPG... beside the fact that they are different in so many ways, there's one additional and quite important fact you should and might notice: MMO tend not to stay popular for a long time nowadays. You see EQ, WoW, EvE, Rift, GW2 or maybe another one or two and that's it, and some of these aren't even close to popular! The population of a MMO drop so fast that you'll think their developers must have done something horribly wrong with their game while in fact they did not, people just lose interest and move on. It's a lot harder to make a successful MMO than to make an awesome single player RPG simply because you'll need your audience to play the same game for years, and everything that the developers can think of to make their game CONSTANTLY feels fun have pertty much been done in WoW(grindy dungeons & raids, stupid daily and all that) and EVE(free-as-a-bird sandbox elements and well designed social interaction).

I'm not angry at all that the god dame game's developement is takeing fxcking forever(...), but I will be if they end up giveing us a game that goes free to play in one year and no one even remember it in five. For now, let's just be patient and see how it goes, shall we? :)

  Kuro1n

Novice Member

Joined: 1/03/07
Posts: 778

1/14/13 12:26:19 PM#53
Originally posted by Garkan
Originally posted by Cursedsei
Originally posted by Garkan
Originally posted by bcrankshaw
Originally posted by Garkan
Originally posted by sketocafe
CCP is making an MMO, CD Project is making a standalone RPG. So no.

Derp, I covered that. Fact is the game CD Projekt are attempting is as complex and as challenging as creating an MMO. The challenges they face are different but both are difficult in there own way. 
 
CD Projekt are creating RPG mechanics covering over 4700 pages in 44 books, in a game filled with huge detail and no set linear path. Its basically trying to create something as detail heavy and as free formed as Morrowind combined with one of Biowares better RPGs like DA:O. The game will also have true next gen graphics. This is not something thats easily done

I don't get your point, it makes no sense

Why would CCP be ashamed because another development company is making a complex single player RPG? Should they also be embarrassed because Bethesda made Skyrim and it was sold millions of copies?

There is very little correlation technically around the development of how an MMO and a single player game is designed. So no, CCP shouldn't be ashamed

-snipping a bunch of useless stuff-

 

What you don't get, is that CCP has to continually funnel money into EvE, their only real source of income. Remember Monoclegate? That cost them funds due to loss of players, and have been scrambling to implement more player-wanted mechanics and overhauls into EvE Online.

Supporting servers, paying staff for development of new content as well as reworking what is there, it all costs money. Money that is also being used to fund Dust 514's development (Which as a F2P title means there is no guarantee of money from every player). At the time, their cash was split in three ways, EvE, Dust, and WoD.

 

Considering one of those three titles weren't even in a showable state, when money-squeezing time came, they had to throw one title on the backburner, in order to support their money makers and thus make money.

 

 

CD Projekt doesn't have that issue. At most, they pay for upkeep on a site, upkeep that is far less costly than an MMO, and doesn't require nearly as much support. They also aren't stuck constantly having to develop and update a game while trying to work on others. While there is no monthly source of income, overhead is also more than likely lower.

And nowhere has it been stated at all that developing their Cyberpunk title is as costly or hard as an MMO, so you can drop that weak bit of an opinionated argument right there. There is only one title that the Projekt's dev team Red is working on, and thats the Cyberpunk game, with rumors of a 3rd Witcher title popping up.

That's still 2 games compared to Eve's 3 (counting WoD of course).

 

So no. CCP shouldn't be ashamed of themselves, because there is no bloody reason to. You though, should certainly feel ashamed for yourself due to your lack of insight into any of this, despite you listing off what I essentially just did, as well as an obvious lack of understanding on your part towards the studios and there positions.

 

Thread Derp MkII 
 
I listed CCPs financial position relative to CD Projekt in the OP. You also seem unaware of the costs implied in creating next Gen graphics, Epic and Crytek estimate next gen graphics will cost twice or even three times as much to create compared to this gen and will need a huge increase in development time, more artists need to work on the massive level of detail and lighting effects. The Programing behind them is also more difficult. 
 
So the graphics are a challenge enough then you marry that to a very complicated game, I will not list the challenges again to people who just do not get the challenges that Devs face when creating a game as complicated as a triple AAA next gen RPG with a world as detailed as CyberPunk will be. A game like Cyberpunk runs into the Millions. Other games with multiplatform releases easily hits $30 million, then CyberPunk has the extra costs related to its next gen graphics 
 
Good Old Games needs development time too, for example they have began converting all their titles to be guaranteed to work in windows 8. 
 
Just maintaining a website indeed, you have all the gall to call me unaware of things. You didn't have a clue about the development cost of next gen graphics nor how much a game like this would cost and you called GoG "just maintaining a website" Please do some research before trying to call me out.
 

Sorry guy but you can't compare RPGs to MMORPGs ever. Also nextgen graphics (w/e that actually is) takes longer time sure but as the tools develop as well it is not such a huge increase in time, I know this as I am a 3D artist and sit with this stuff day in and day out. Look back to the time before sculpting programs and how much longer things took to make at that point with great detail. zBrush keeps giving us just more and more lovely features so I have no doubt that instead of getting harder it will stay approx the same or even get easier.

  Hazelle

Novice Member

Joined: 1/20/11
Posts: 773

1/15/13 1:35:33 AM#54

Both CCP and CD Projekt RED have announced that they are working on games.

The only diffrence I can see between the two developers (aside the MMORPG/RPG thing) is CD Projekt RED gave a release date of no sooner than 2015 - which isn't really a release date at all is it?

On behalf of CCP, as someone that has nothing to do with working for the company, I'll make a statement saying that WOD will not be out before 2015 either.  There, now CCP can hold their heads up high.

  Malcanis

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/17/09
Posts: 3213

"A very special kind of stupidity"

1/15/13 5:04:02 AM#55
Originally posted by leoo88556

As far as I know, they're currently doing a 3 weeks long, global, interal feature testing of WoDMMO RIGHT NOW!! Still a long wait a head of us, but at least now we know that they're actually doing some progress. There're some tiny information on twitter and the WoDnews website if you like.

Ok, now back to the topic. CCP have problems they need to iron out, but any major project like this will take not only time, but also a certain amount of luck. The developement of World of Darkness MMO might not be as smooth as we hoped, but that's just the way it is. In my opinion, NO ONE should be ashamed. I'm sure the developers at Atlanta office and White Wolf are doing everything they can to prevent the game from dying in its cradle, even if it mean that they have to work on some side projects for EVE & DUST and will never get credit for whatsoever. As for CCP, I don't mean to sound condescending but... do you even know how much money you'll need to support a sixty people team for just one month? I'm currently working in a similar industry and... well lets just say I believe every single day while WoD is still not profitable, guys at CCP will ask their children to pray sincerely for the game before they go to bed.

As for the part you compare a MMO to a single player RPG... beside the fact that they are different in so many ways, there's one additional and quite important fact you should and might notice: MMO tend not to stay popular for a long time nowadays. You see EQ, WoW, EvE, Rift, GW2 or maybe another one or two and that's it, and some of these aren't even close to popular! The population of a MMO drop so fast that you'll think their developers must have done something horribly wrong with their game while in fact they did not, people just lose interest and move on. It's a lot harder to make a successful MMO than to make an awesome single player RPG simply because you'll need your audience to play the same game for years, and everything that the developers can think of to make their game CONSTANTLY feels fun have pertty much been done in WoW(grindy dungeons & raids, stupid daily and all that) and EVE(free-as-a-bird sandbox elements and well designed social interaction).

I'm not angry at all that the god dame game's developement is takeing fxcking forever(...), but I will be if they end up giveing us a game that goes free to play in one year and no one even remember it in five. For now, let's just be patient and see how it goes, shall we? :)

 

Um, didn't CCP say that WoD is being designed and released from the get go as a F2P game?

Give me liberty or give me lasers

  leoo88556

Novice Member

Joined: 6/28/12
Posts: 136

1/15/13 8:48:45 AM#56
Originally posted by Malcanis
Originally posted by leoo88556

As far as I know, they're currently doing a 3 weeks long, global, interal feature testing of WoDMMO RIGHT NOW!! Still a long wait a head of us, but at least now we know that they're actually doing some progress. There're some tiny information on twitter and the WoDnews website if you like.

Ok, now back to the topic. CCP have problems they need to iron out, but any major project like this will take not only time, but also a certain amount of luck. The developement of World of Darkness MMO might not be as smooth as we hoped, but that's just the way it is. In my opinion, NO ONE should be ashamed. I'm sure the developers at Atlanta office and White Wolf are doing everything they can to prevent the game from dying in its cradle, even if it mean that they have to work on some side projects for EVE & DUST and will never get credit for whatsoever. As for CCP, I don't mean to sound condescending but... do you even know how much money you'll need to support a sixty people team for just one month? I'm currently working in a similar industry and... well lets just say I believe every single day while WoD is still not profitable, guys at CCP will ask their children to pray sincerely for the game before they go to bed.

As for the part you compare a MMO to a single player RPG... beside the fact that they are different in so many ways, there's one additional and quite important fact you should and might notice: MMO tend not to stay popular for a long time nowadays. You see EQ, WoW, EvE, Rift, GW2 or maybe another one or two and that's it, and some of these aren't even close to popular! The population of a MMO drop so fast that you'll think their developers must have done something horribly wrong with their game while in fact they did not, people just lose interest and move on. It's a lot harder to make a successful MMO than to make an awesome single player RPG simply because you'll need your audience to play the same game for years, and everything that the developers can think of to make their game CONSTANTLY feels fun have pertty much been done in WoW(grindy dungeons & raids, stupid daily and all that) and EVE(free-as-a-bird sandbox elements and well designed social interaction).

I'm not angry at all that the god dame game's developement is takeing fxcking forever(...), but I will be if they end up giveing us a game that goes free to play in one year and no one even remember it in five. For now, let's just be patient and see how it goes, shall we? :)

 

Um, didn't CCP say that WoD is being designed and released from the get go as a F2P game?

Really! I must have missed that some how. Care to share your source of this information? 

  Malcanis

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/17/09
Posts: 3213

"A very special kind of stupidity"

1/15/13 10:19:23 AM#57
Hmmm on searching, I find a widespread assumption (which I shared) that it is, but I can't find any actual statement from CCP to that effect.  I could have sworn they were going for a F2P/Vanity Cash Shop (which would be an absolute no-brainer for a vampire MMO) model, but I can't see where I got that from.  I retract the assertion.

Give me liberty or give me lasers

  lizardbones

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10953

I think with my heart and move with my head.-Kongos

1/15/13 11:04:22 AM#58


Originally posted by leoo88556
As far as I know, they're currently doing a 3 weeks long, global, interal feature testing of WoDMMO RIGHT NOW!! Still a long wait a head of us, but at least now we know that they're actually doing some progress. There're some tiny information on twitter and the WoDnews website if you like.

Ok, now back to the topic. CCP have problems they need to iron out, but any major project like this will take not only time, but also a certain amount of luck. The developement of World of Darkness MMO might not be as smooth as we hoped, but that's just the way it is. In my opinion, NO ONE should be ashamed. I'm sure the developers at Atlanta office and White Wolf are doing everything they can to prevent the game from dying in its cradle, even if it mean that they have to work on some side projects for EVE & DUST and will never get credit for whatsoever. As for CCP, I don't mean to sound condescending but... do you even know how much money you'll need to support a sixty people team for just one month? I'm currently working in a similar industry and... well lets just say I believe every single day while WoD is still not profitable, guys at CCP will ask their children to pray sincerely for the game before they go to bed.

As for the part you compare a MMO to a single player RPG... beside the fact that they are different in so many ways, there's one additional and quite important fact you should and might notice: MMO tend not to stay popular for a long time nowadays. You see EQ, WoW, EvE, Rift, GW2 or maybe another one or two and that's it, and some of these aren't even close to popular! The population of a MMO drop so fast that you'll think their developers must have done something horribly wrong with their game while in fact they did not, people just lose interest and move on. It's a lot harder to make a successful MMO than to make an awesome single player RPG simply because you'll need your audience to play the same game for years, and everything that the developers can think of to make their game CONSTANTLY feels fun have pertty much been done in WoW(grindy dungeons & raids, stupid daily and all that) and EVE(free-as-a-bird sandbox elements and well designed social interaction).

I'm not angry at all that the god dame game's developement is takeing fxcking forever(...), but I will be if they end up giveing us a game that goes free to play in one year and no one even remember it in five. For now, let's just be patient and see how it goes, shall we? :)




They've stated that they have 60 developers working on the game. I don't know how many developers it takes to make an MMO, but sixty people sounds like a lot of people. Even if they are working on the game part time, that's still a lot of people. That does not sound like they are giving up on the game to me. But again, it took them a good ten years (initial development + post release development) to really get Eve going. They aren't really quick, but they are determined. I would be surprised if they actually gave up on WoD.

I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  Jester92

Novice Member

Joined: 2/10/07
Posts: 156

I keep duct tape on me at all times to repair my Hel when the time comes.

1/15/13 11:47:08 PM#59
May I note that Cyberpunk 2077 is by the same people who did the witcher series... And I love the witcher series... And frankly CCP should just keep focusing on EVE and Dust and wait until they have the time to make their next game correctly instead of just scrapping up a team and making an OK game as compared to their two very well off games.

J. B.

3 Pages « 1 2 3 Search