Originally posted by Z3R01

 

Dynamic events, Rifts, zone invasions, Public Quests... all fail once the games population out levels an area or the games population dwindles.

I've seen this happen with three games now. First with WAR public quests. They were great at first and then after a month or two you were left soloing them or skipping them entirely.

Then Rift came along with its Rift events and even with population scaling they failed once populations dropped.

Now here I am... in a mid tier zone in GW2 and i can't kill a orange event/mob because no one is around. I find myself avoiding content as I level.

 

Sure everyone loves open world content. its great when a game first launches and everyone is leveling together. WAR, Rift and GW2 were all great the first month or two. 

But in hindsight was it really a good decision to put these mechanics into the game? Now that GW2 is mostly top heavy, even with down scaling people are left skipping events or begging for help in map chat. 

I'm sure at this point A-net is second guessing their decisions now. Same as Trion and Mythic did back then when the game worlds became ghost towns.

 

You would think after watching two companies fail with on the fly open world group content that A-net would have design GW2 to be adjusted later on when populations dipped.

They didn't and now anyone thats leveling gets to suffer...

 

So what do they do? What could they do that Mythic and Trion couldnt? You guys have any ideas? because right now im at the point of wishing Gw2 was a tad more traditional with its leveling content and didn't entirely focus everything on massive zone popluation. 

 

 

Maybe you are in a wrong guild/server, an example , yesterday in mailstrom by the meta destroyer event, started with me and 2 more persons, we start the invite chat (map, guild and friends) , and in some minutes we got more than 40 persons to made it.

A great mistake was to put fract's on L.A., now all L80 are there to do it, and not helping so much to populate the vast world from GW2.

Originally posted by Jemcrystal

Originally posted by ShakyMo
perhaps levels are the problem

I'm still playing a game that's focus is leveling up skills rather than player level.  And the population has not dropped.  Nobody is leaving this game that has been out since March 27, 2008.  Skills is where it is at.

Maybe nobody is leaving because nobody is playing?  You didn't even name the game, and no notable MMORPG releases came out in march 2008.  Using some ultra obscure game that nobody plays to try to make a point is pretty silly.

Originally posted by ShakyMo
perhaps levels are the problem

They are. I've always wondered why did this game has levels.

Originally posted by Z3R01

I've seen this happen with three games now. First with WAR public quests. They were great at first and then after a month or two you were left soloing them or skipping them entirely.

The bigger issue in GW2 is they went against their original design with loot. Originally (and this is how it was at launch for me) once I reached level 80 and went back to the older zones, stuff my level would drop off mobs there. So I'd get lots of loot sometimes rares and sometimes exotics. 

Then a month went by and they nerfed all the loot and added DR and never fixed the chests in these lower zones to actually drop level appropriate loot and made MF even more broken then it was already (ie not working on chests). so there's no reason to run around in the lower level zones.

All GW2 devs would have to do is restore loot to the launch parameters and remove DR and fix a couple of things like MF not working on chests (or not working at all) and people would return to these places because they are seriously easier then Orr. They also need to make ascended gear drop in the open world so people aren't hanging out in LA all the time.

Originally posted by itgrowls

Originally posted by Z3R01

I've seen this happen with three games now. First with WAR public quests. They were great at first and then after a month or two you were left soloing them or skipping them entirely.

The bigger issue in GW2 is they went against their original design with loot. Originally (and this is how it was at launch for me) once I reached level 80 and went back to the older zones, stuff my level would drop off mobs there. So I'd get lots of loot sometimes rares and sometimes exotics. 

Then a month went by and they nerfed all the loot and added DR and never fixed the chests in these lower zones to actually drop level appropriate loot and made MF even more broken then it was already (ie not working on chests). so there's no reason to run around in the lower level zones.

All GW2 devs would have to do is restore loot to the launch parameters and remove DR and fix a couple of things like MF not working on chests (or not working at all) and people would return to these places because they are seriously easier then Orr. They also need to make ascended gear drop in the open world so people aren't hanging out in LA all the time.

AHH - the loot does drop based on your level not the level of the mobs. That is the way it is has always worked for me.. I think you are confused. The only place where it is level based is hidden chests and the Karma vendors in that area.

Levels arent the problem because it is just a mechanic to progress.  The issue is content design.  Most (if not all) MMOs today is based on a traditional tiered content approach.  Easy content in the early levels which progressively get harder as you scale the tiers.  The problem in my eyes is that this is too restrictive.  Today I cant go from a level 1 'zone/area' to a level 20 'zone/area' because I have no means or ability to survive.  Thus we as players are effectively 'funneled' through content.

There are a few options. Skyrim used one.  They used level scaling where the enemies would scale within your level.  That way if you went back to an area where you started and you were a higher level the enemies would still give you a challenge.  This is similiar to what GW2 and its a start.

But to me the REAL 'fix' is to change the content.   If you present no meaningful content at 'low' levels/areas you provide no incentive for a high level user to return.   For example, if you placed one newbie starting area (and there should be several to mix it up) next to a lake, you could have high levels come back to use the lake to make or sail a boat to another area only reached from there.  Thus making the area useful.  If you can get people to visit an area, natural social interaction will take care of the rest.

I've been looking at ArcheAge and they had this interesting concept (apologies as I dont fully understand it yet) where you take materials to a 'drop point' to exchange for coins which are needed to purchase blueprints to build houses/etc.   In the video I saw these drop points are OWPvP and showed one group of players AMBUSHING another group of players trying to deliver the coins.  Content like that (which isn't player created but player driven) now makes that area relevant.  It gives purpose to revisit somewhere you have been before.

MMO content/environments should be like real locations.  Have a bunch of things going on and let the players choose if they want to go there (regardless of level or skill).

I love the dynamic events, but as populations tend to drop, this is a potential problem.  As the OP experienced, I first noticed it in WAR.  I loved the open questing there too, but as the population dropped, it became very difficult if not impossible to complete certain quests.

I'm not sure what the answer is while retaining that style of gameplay.  Maybe npc's that will help out.   It's also a reallly big world too, so that doesn't help in terms of population.  I'm not complaining, mind you, I love the world, but that adds another aspect to declining populations if they occur.

Originally posted by Terranah

I love the dynamic events, but as populations tend to drop, this is a potential problem.  As the OP experienced, I first noticed it in WAR.  I loved the open questing there too, but as the population dropped, it became very difficult if not impossible to complete certain quests.

 

I'm not sure what the answer is while retaining that style of gameplay.  Maybe npc's that will help out.   It's also a reallly big world too, so that doesn't help in terms of population.  I'm not complaining, mind you, I love the world, but that adds another aspect to declining populations if they occur.

Even beforre release many said this will happen but fans kept saying that scaling will solve this problem..however what they did forget is that majority of players like progression and rewards and that leaves no room for coming back to low level zones and do the DE'S just for the 'fun' of it. If it was true DE's in lower zones woudn't be empty which is the case these days.

Guess ' we play GW2 just for for fun and loot or rewards'  supporters are really in minority

Originally posted by Doogiehowser

Originally posted by Terranah

I love the dynamic events, but as populations tend to drop, this is a potential problem.  As the OP experienced, I first noticed it in WAR.  I loved the open questing there too, but as the population dropped, it became very difficult if not impossible to complete certain quests.

 

I'm not sure what the answer is while retaining that style of gameplay.  Maybe npc's that will help out.   It's also a reallly big world too, so that doesn't help in terms of population.  I'm not complaining, mind you, I love the world, but that adds another aspect to declining populations if they occur.

Even beforre release many said this will happen but fans kept saying that scaling will solve this problem..however what they did forget is that majority of players like progression and rewards and that leaves no room for coming back to low level zones and do the DE'S just for the 'fun' of it. If it was true DE's in lower zones woudn't be empty which is the case these days.

Guess ' we play GW2 just for for fun and loot or rewards'  supporters are really in minority

Me and many others do come back to low level zones to do events, why you ask?

It's easy, doing them help you get your dalies completed much faster than doing them in high level zones.

Originally posted by Torgrim

Originally posted by Doogiehowser

Originally posted by Terranah

I love the dynamic events, but as populations tend to drop, this is a potential problem.  As the OP experienced, I first noticed it in WAR.  I loved the open questing there too, but as the population dropped, it became very difficult if not impossible to complete certain quests.

 

I'm not sure what the answer is while retaining that style of gameplay.  Maybe npc's that will help out.   It's also a reallly big world too, so that doesn't help in terms of population.  I'm not complaining, mind you, I love the world, but that adds another aspect to declining populations if they occur.

Even beforre release many said this will happen but fans kept saying that scaling will solve this problem..however what they did forget is that majority of players like progression and rewards and that leaves no room for coming back to low level zones and do the DE'S just for the 'fun' of it. If it was true DE's in lower zones woudn't be empty which is the case these days.

Guess ' we play GW2 just for for fun and loot or rewards'  supporters are really in minority

 

Me and many others do come back to low level zones to do events, why you ask?

It's easy, doing them help you get your dalies completed much faster than doing them in high level zones.

Yeah i wish more players were like that but sadly that is not the case. GW2 devs  needs to apply more carrots for players to come back to lower zones.

Originally posted by Doogiehowser

Originally posted by Torgrim

Originally posted by Doogiehowser

Originally posted by Terranah

I love the dynamic events, but as populations tend to drop, this is a potential problem.  As the OP experienced, I first noticed it in WAR.  I loved the open questing there too, but as the population dropped, it became very difficult if not impossible to complete certain quests.

 

I'm not sure what the answer is while retaining that style of gameplay.  Maybe npc's that will help out.   It's also a reallly big world too, so that doesn't help in terms of population.  I'm not complaining, mind you, I love the world, but that adds another aspect to declining populations if they occur.

Even beforre release many said this will happen but fans kept saying that scaling will solve this problem..however what they did forget is that majority of players like progression and rewards and that leaves no room for coming back to low level zones and do the DE'S just for the 'fun' of it. If it was true DE's in lower zones woudn't be empty which is the case these days.

Guess ' we play GW2 just for for fun and loot or rewards'  supporters are really in minority

 

Me and many others do come back to low level zones to do events, why you ask?

It's easy, doing them help you get your dalies completed much faster than doing them in high level zones.

Yeah i wish more players were like that but sadly that is not the case. GW2 devs  needs to apply more carrots for players to come back to lower zones.

Then we will have people complaining that there are too many carrots in the game. It is a damned if you do, damned if you don't mentality.

It seems people want to either be led by the nose or get out of my way I don't need any hand holding - sometimes the same person has both mentalities......

Originally posted by Lovely_Laly

1. you don't need DE to lvl at GW2, you have tone quests, personal story and gathering/crafting for it.

2. chain events resuming with reward chest still very popular, shame are few of such.

3. Cursed Shore offers lot of events as end game content. =XD You can farm all time there.

4. If not, try WvW, they have events too.

God, I can't imagine leveling without DEs.  I would have quit the game as it was at least a third of my XP and I was never ahead of the zones I entered.

Originally posted by botrytis

It seems people want to either be led by the nose or get out of my way I don't need any hand holding - sometimes the same person has both mentalities......

Most people just want to have enough soloable content to easily level in a game.  If people really can't solo some of the DEs then this is a serious problem as there weren't enough heart quests to make up for it.

Levels are the problem.

Levels split a community.

Even with downranking, rewards and population is always better at high/peak levels.

If you put in upranking (sidekicking up) you might as well not have levels in the first place.

It's all about zone design too.

Zones at all = bad.

Bring back borderless/seemless regions, more geographical area to put content across the wide spectrum of player advancement.

Newbie toons surrounded by newbie mobs with high level dungeons and caves or open farming areas on the edges.

Noobs will learn to avoid.

Simple conning systems always work.

Ideal map? Something like this.

Looks like an ass with severe fungus infection ;)

Anywho, yes Spock that would be ideal things to do in zones not only in GW2 but in all themepark games.

Originally posted by BadSpock

Levels are the problem.

Levels split a community.

Even with downranking, rewards and population is always better at high/peak levels.

If you put in upranking (sidekicking up) you might as well not have levels in the first place.

It's all about zone design too.

Zones at all = bad.

Bring back borderless/seemless regions, more geographical area to put content across the wide spectrum of player advancement.

Newbie toons surrounded by newbie mobs with high level dungeons and caves or open farming areas on the edges.

Noobs will learn to avoid.

Zones are fine, because they generally help a game run better.  Zones certainly didnt hurt EQ, but EQ's zone design was closer to what you are proposing.

GW2 is a unique case, because their intention was for people to be in all zones because of the downleveling.  But the issue is once you 100% a zone, there is no incentive to return.  GW2 needs to figure out how to give incentive.

Now as time goes on and the game grows, the world is going to become too big to expect activity eveywhere, but there is no reason to rotate things around so at least one zone from each level range be populated.

Its up to ANet to figure out how to make this happen

In my opinion, Rift (Trion) has the best offering in terms of dynamic content, it feels the most dynamic out of the games listed in this thread and is completely optional.  

Yet, if you choose to participate in closing Rifts and stopping invasions you are rewarded with useful items / currency.

Originally posted by BadSpock

Levels are the problem.

Levels split a community.

Even with downranking, rewards and population is always better at high/peak levels.

If you put in upranking (sidekicking up) you might as well not have levels in the first place.

It's all about zone design too.

Zones at all = bad.

Bring back borderless/seemless regions, more geographical area to put content across the wide spectrum of player advancement.

Newbie toons surrounded by newbie mobs with high level dungeons and caves or open farming areas on the edges.

Noobs will learn to avoid.

Simple conning systems always work.

Ideal map? Something like this.

I don't think it will happen - Why you might say? 1. People want to know they are progressing, you take levels away, how do you show progression? 2. People like to know how they compare to others - this is the way to do it. We wouldn't have all these different competitions and sports events if we didn't want to know. 3. COMPETITION - I am better than you attitude.

Zones are used to help keep server cost down, plain and simple. Anytime you have fancy travel, like WoW or TERA, or GW2, you have zones. It also makes the game more compartmentalized and easier to develop for. Not saying it is right, but it happens.