Originally posted by papaz1

Originally posted by Zethlis

I started with Runescape. Then WoW. Then SWG (Wasn't THAT bad). Then Tabula Rasa. Then Warhammer. Then SWTOR which I waited for every single day since I heard of it being worked on in 2009, busted my balls. Then Wurm. Then GW2. Then EVE. And after that they stopped being worth remembering game titles. Why has the MMORPG industry gone from the most creative and influential to this cynical cancerous cyst? What are CEOs thinking when they make a business plan that comes down to - copy WoW and cash out as much as we can before we close the doors.

It's ridiculous how marginal the advancement of MMOs has become. I know I'm not alone in these feelings. Right now I'm counting the days to when Embers of Caerus will be released and I won't have to worry about horrible MMOs anymore, but that's a good 3 or so years away. I need something to sate my appetite and my appetite isn't end game raids and pvp. MMOs shouldn't HAVE an end game. You should never get to the point where you can't even think of anything else to do because you've already done it, but this is the MMO market of today.

Are there any innovative MMOs that are either already out there or very close to release that I haven't heard about? Surfing the list of 600 sum MMOs would take a good month. I'm about to abandon MMOs entirely because I've just lost so much faith in the genre.

HALP PLZ

 

HAHAHAHA

Hmm.. where have I heard that before. "MMO's suck, I'm waiting for MMO X that will be the mother of all MMO's and then come crying to the boards about how MMO X failed but now you have found a new MMO Y that will be the next big thing". Rinse and repeat.

The problem isn't with the industry. It's you to be honest.

You are being overly negative and you need to unplug and get out and do something else for a while.

 

Why does every single person who doesn't have anything to contribute to this thread choose to insult me? Are you that personally offended that the games you might partially enjoy actually SUCK? Get over yourself, it's a documented fact MMOs  have been on the decline, no matter what argument some prepubescent child uses to deter.

Originally posted by Zethlis

Originally posted by darker70

Age of Wushu most innovative MO,I've seen in years all I can say is try it check for the totally free Wushu posts on the forum.

But be warned it's deep and the translation is a bit dodgy so if you try NA get in a guild,I'm on Open Beta Russian servers just geting my head around the facets of the game until Wulin goes to Beta.

Yeah I tried the 10 hour trial or whatever and it was pretty good except by the time the trial was over I still wasn't familiar with the game AT ALL lol. I might check it out after beta but from what I experienced it will take very long to get used to

Yeah if you don't mind Russian or maybe find an English guild the Russian open beta is a good way to learn the game no restrictions,NA is from what I gather dropping their 10 hour policy when they hit the next  Beta,will have to wait and see I suppose.

Originally posted by Zethlis

Originally posted by XAPGames
... try other genres?

As I've previously stated I stick to MMOs for their longevity

Try :

Riding a bike

Getting a girlfriend

Going to work

swimming

hanging out with friends

play in a band

go to movies

And at the end of the day, around 9 pm, sit down and play a video game for an hour or two, if the girlfriend lets you !

Well,

unfortunately I think I have also been in that situation you're in now.

after playing almost all major and many many, let's say, second class and niche MMOs, I came to the conclusion that indeed things have been running a bit on the non-innovating side, maybe even taken a turn for the worse (oversimplification, casualness, linearity, theme-parkity*** e.t.c.)

however, there are a few exceptions, like let's say EVE and WURM, with different mechanics and approach.

What I have realized is that after so many games, I consider myself able to decide whether a game is good for me and if i really enjoy it or just play out of boredom/habbit. After that comes the realization that MMOs, now and for me, offer enjoyment when I play with friends. Friends from real life, friends migrating from other mmos and friends made in a new mmo.

That does not imply that i would put up with a game i don't like just to be with friends (WoW, SWTOR, RIFT and AoC are some examples in my case), but that in the end, enjoying the games with other is what really provides the longevity you seek.

As an example -and please dear community, no bashing for this one- I will tell you that i did enjoy GW2 for a while, because some friends and me decided to give it a go, but i did not really like to log unless they would be with me. On the other hand, I have been enjoying LotRO for many years, because of the community and the in-game friends.

That is, imo, the problem with new MMOs, the community and social aspects of the games have been reduced by both influx of new to the genre players and the game mechanics/developers tending to the more unsociable crowd that wants to sample/locust their way through this new trend.

I must point out that this is not an over-simplification of the phenomenon, but a fact that does indeed lead the industry to a more "isolated" gamer model, which in turn leads to reduced longevity because, in the end, MMOs are turning into single player games where the new type of gamer thinks that other players are just bots for group quests and AH.

That is why, back in the day, the more close-knit community was willing to put up with more flaws in a game. It was the social experience and the freedom provided that made people stay and invest in the game (see SWG).

So, if you find that MMOs provide longevity, but their systems are not to your liking, keep up the serach! I am sure something will come up that will suit our tastes. Hell, I even find that the search is also quite enjoyable in itself (but that could be just me).

Otherwise, if you think you too are slowly becoming a locust, give the single-player experience another chance. Too much good stuff is out there.

Though, and this is by no means an accusation or something, by your posts you seem like the power-gaming type. This remains a problem until your time is limited in RL. It did wotk wonders for me! Went from 6+ hours gaming a day to 2- many years back and it is great. I haven't been able to compete seriously in PvP and raid a lot, but I now have the maturity (unfortunately 35yo) to savour every game I play, no power-leveling, no worries about gear, just plain old fun.

good luck and whistle if spot something new and interesting

Originally posted by Zethlis

Originally posted by Doogiehowser

Runescape.. if that i s what you comparing todays MMO to and caling them garbage..well you should be the last person OP from whom i should take any advice regarding quality if modern MMOS.

Runescape..lol

I put those in chronological order for a reason. Sorry that I didn't expect such incompetence from readers as to have to give a lesson in literature.

@Slapshot: That sounds a lot like Embers of Caerus and it's coming out right around the same time but their budget is MUCH larger than EoC's. But if they don't get $300k in 3 days they aren't going to be getting a single dollar of that million.

So you are saying Runescape was garbage too and MMOS have only become more garbage since then? because if you were naming Runescape as a quality MMO to show that how MMOS have degraded since then..well in that case you are the one who needs lesson in literature and especially in how to explain your point more clearly.

I think the OP has experienced everything worthwhile that the MMORPG genre has to offer.

Time to find a sense of adventure with something else.

For the OP, I don't think it's worth returning to MMORPGs until there is a new technology to spark original MMORPGs, like VR headsets.

I've been playing MMO's since DAOC, I played RPGS for years before that, and tabletop even before that.  

I had stopped playing MMO's altogether when I realized that I just wasn't into it anymore.  I didn't play anything at all for a couple of years (other than some xbox games and the occasional single player pc title.)

Then my brother asked me to try out DDO again.  Figured why not, it was free to play now, the underdark expansion was coming out.  I even forked out the cash for the xpac.  That was 6 months ago maybe, I'm still playing and enjoying it...and the best part is if I get tired of it and don't want to play for a month, I don't have that guilt trip in the back of my mind because I'm paying a monthly fee for it.

Looking back on it, I don't think it's the game itself so much as the fact that I found a good guild with people I enjoy playing with, and I can always call up my brother and get him to log on and run some quests with me.  It won't fill any PvP itches, but the quests are fun, and there are a multitude of ways to build your toons.

I think the bottom line in any MMO is that if you don't have a group of people you love playing with, the game will get stale and you'll get disenchanted with it.  Start game hopping, and that happens faster and faster as you get tired of meeting new people and having fewer that you gel  with.  Every time you talk to other people less and less, and before you know it, you are quitting a game after playing for two weeks and never talking to anyone in game.

In DAOC I had an awesome guild. We played together for a couple of years.  Then WoW came, half the guild jumped ship...eventually everyone else followed because they missed playing with the others and its always fun to try something new.  That was the end of the guild.  Some people wanted horde, some wanted alliance, some got bored and came back to DAOC for awhile before they realized that just wasn't the same anymore...and eventually we all stopped talking.

Try playing with friends. The longevity you want isn't coming from the content of the games you play so you'll have to come up with ideas yourself within the boundaries of those games. Friends can help with that.

What you want is a sandbox MMO, apparently. Unfortunately even in those you ultimately reach a point of "no advance". The only thing that really fits your description of your desired experience is real life, I'm afraid.

Originally posted by kostantis

Well,

unfortunately I think I have also been in that situation you're in now.

after playing almost all major and many many, let's say, second class and niche MMOs, I came to the conclusion that indeed things have been running a bit on the non-innovating side, maybe even taken a turn for the worse (oversimplification, casualness, linearity, theme-parkity*** e.t.c.)

however, there are a few exceptions, like let's say EVE and WURM, with different mechanics and approach.

What I have realized is that after so many games, I consider myself able to decide whether a game is good for me and if i really enjoy it or just play out of boredom/habbit. After that comes the realization that MMOs, now and for me, offer enjoyment when I play with friends. Friends from real life, friends migrating from other mmos and friends made in a new mmo.

That does not imply that i would put up with a game i don't like just to be with friends (WoW, SWTOR, RIFT and AoC are some examples in my case), but that in the end, enjoying the games with other is what really provides the longevity you seek.

As an example -and please dear community, no bashing for this one- I will tell you that i did enjoy GW2 for a while, because some friends and me decided to give it a go, but i did not really like to log unless they would be with me. On the other hand, I have been enjoying LotRO for many years, because of the community and the in-game friends.

That is, imo, the problem with new MMOs, the community and social aspects of the games have been reduced by both influx of new to the genre players and the game mechanics/developers tending to the more unsociable crowd that wants to sample/locust their way through this new trend.

I must point out that this is not an over-simplification of the phenomenon, but a fact that does indeed lead the industry to a more "isolated" gamer model, which in turn leads to reduced longevity because, in the end, MMOs are turning into single player games where the new type of gamer thinks that other players are just bots for group quests and AH.

That is why, back in the day, the more close-knit community was willing to put up with more flaws in a game. It was the social experience and the freedom provided that made people stay and invest in the game (see SWG).

So, if you find that MMOs provide longevity, but their systems are not to your liking, keep up the serach! I am sure something will come up that will suit our tastes. Hell, I even find that the search is also quite enjoyable in itself (but that could be just me).

Otherwise, if you think you too are slowly becoming a locust, give the single-player experience another chance. Too much good stuff is out there.

Though, and this is by no means an accusation or something, by your posts you seem like the power-gaming type. This remains a problem until your time is limited in RL. It did wotk wonders for me! Went from 6+ hours gaming a day to 2- many years back and it is great. I haven't been able to compete seriously in PvP and raid a lot, but I now have the maturity (unfortunately 35yo) to savour every game I play, no power-leveling, no worries about gear, just plain old fun.

good luck and whistle if spot something new and interesting

I appreciate the constructive feedback, I knew I wasn't alone. The problem with MMOs now is indeed that everyone is playing a single player game with multiplayer chat/instances. I've yet to find an MMO that captures the themepark when you want it, sandbox when you want it, and community that SWG had. I actually just started playing LOTRO yesterday so we'll see what happens with that, so far I haven't found anything to complain about yet haha.

@delete: None of those activities are as fun as an MMO except a girlfriend but the pleasure/pain ratio is much greater, good job trying to teach "life lessons" on an online gaming board... Sad... and I've been with women of all ages, and they don't change much ^^

@Doogie: No, those were in chronological order AS IN I started with Runescape, and ended with the last on the list. You clearly aren't perceiving the information correctly.

@Mors: A VR MMO would be INSANE. I've always thought about what it would be like, but I don't expect that kind of technology to be on the consumer market for a good few decades.

@Daelnor: That really captures the feeling of community in MMOs. I had many friends on SWTOR and was even a guild leader of a 200+ person guild but the joke of "end game content" they forced on level 50s was ridiculous and no matter how much chatting I did on there, I wasn't enjoying the game once I reached level 50. I'm looking for a revolutionary MMO, specifically Embers of Caerus right now but that isn't expected to release until 2015-2016 so I'm primarily wondering if there are MMOs like that already out that just never got popular or "mainstream" as people would call it.

@Indrome: Virtual Reality eh?

I totally agree the industry has gone the wrong way.  I am playing Indie games, they aren't part of the industry and for Sandbox MMORPGs (my thing) I am very happy.

--Dale>

Originally posted by dalewj

I totally agree the industry has gone the wrong way.  I am playing Indie games, they aren't part of the industry and for Sandbox MMORPGs (my thing) I am very happy.

 

--Dale>

Any games in particular?

Originally posted by nate1980

DF had so much potential that wasn't realized due to the community the played it. DF, during development, was promising to be what all sandbox fans were waiting for since SWG experienced the NGE. Instead, it was turned into a PvP arena by the community. The developers spent a great deal of time creating the world, and the backstory behind all the locations and areas. I remember reading each installment the developers released of the game lore as the months and years passed by. Yet, the only part the community cared about was the FFA PvP. That's why, being a sandbox fan and waiting years for DF to release, I ended up passing the game up. The sad fact is that players just don't have the imagination or patience to really take advantage of a sandbox game. I had similar hopes for Mortal Online, and met the same type of community. Just because there's FFA PvP in a game, doesn't mean the community has to turn that into the main feature of the game. An imaginitive, more intelligent and patient player would use FFA PvP as a tool, not the main attraction.

Your post identifies why I think Sandbox games with FFA PvP are not successful for the most part. With "freedom comes responsibility" and unfortunately "with FFA PvP comes azzhats". These people would play the Street fighter Arcade game all day in the middle of Disney World!

Originally posted by Zethlis

I started with Runescape. Then WoW. Then SWG (Wasn't THAT bad). Then Tabula Rasa. Then Warhammer. Then SWTOR which I waited for every single day since I heard of it being worked on in 2009, busted my balls. Then Wurm. Then GW2. Then EVE. And after that they stopped being worth remembering game titles. Why has the MMORPG industry gone from the most creative and influential to this cynical cancerous cyst? What are CEOs thinking when they make a business plan that comes down to - copy WoW and cash out as much as we can before we close the doors.

It's ridiculous how marginal the advancement of MMOs has become. I know I'm not alone in these feelings. Right now I'm counting the days to when Embers of Caerus will be released and I won't have to worry about horrible MMOs anymore, but that's a good 3 or so years away. I need something to sate my appetite and my appetite isn't end game raids and pvp. MMOs shouldn't HAVE an end game. You should never get to the point where you can't even think of anything else to do because you've already done it, but this is the MMO market of today.

Are there any innovative MMOs that are either already out there or very close to release that I haven't heard about? Surfing the list of 600 sum MMOs would take a good month. I'm about to abandon MMOs entirely because I've just lost so much faith in the genre.

HALP PLZ

There is no such MMO that will satisfy you at this moment.

There have been some MMOs trying to innovate themselves, Mortal Online, Darkfall, Wurms as you should know.

There are some MMOs trying to do it now, Archeage, Darkfall 2.0, Repopulation, etc.

But these MMOs also don't have enough innovations to satisfy someone who's already done with traditional RPG/MMO system.

What you expect is a game that is completely different in the system.

You are looking at good 3~5 years until such game comes out.

So best thing you can do for now is just trolling in MMO forums to satisfy yourself with substitution just like me.

Make fun of stupid people and kids who just entered MMO world, laugh at the garbages they say they like.

It will make you feel better.

Not sure if anoyone else picked up on this first OP:

You had a quick rant there about current MMO's being themepark garbage, yet you mention EVE online which is anything but themepark, and if you are playing it as a themepark then you are missing out on sooooo much. Seriously you need to give that game another go. Eve is one of the least themeparky games around.

Originally posted by Zethlis

 Why has the MMORPG industry gone from the most creative and influential to this cynical cancerous cyst?

It hasn't. You are either unaware of how it has evolved or you're one of the people that doesn't accept the evolution as being part of the genre.

It's ridiculous how marginal the advancement of MMOs has become.

What are the advances you're expecting?What do you feel is lagging behind?

 Right now I'm counting the days to when Embers of Caerus will be released and I won't have to worry about horrible MMOs anymore, but that's a good 3 or so years away.

That's a big part of the genre's problems - unreasonable expectation from the consumer. There is no reason to believe that EoC will be some saving grace of the industry. There is no reason to believe it will be stable or that it will deliver on all its features. There's very little reason to believe that if it ships at all it will be even a shell of what you expect it to be.

That's nothing against EoC, indie devs, fantasy titles or anything else. That's making a statement based on history and fact. But you've already put them on the pedestal, and possible even already given them some money.

The industry is doing fine. It's entirely possible you're just better suited for other genres.

Originally posted by Zethlis

@Doogie: No, those were in chronological order AS IN I started with Runescape, and ended with the last on the list. You clearly aren't perceiving the information correctly.

 

Then i suggest you start with some quality MMOS since your chronogical order startes with Runescape. If you had tried some better MMOS your chronological order would look much different.

hehe, glad that you appretiated the post

indeed, it's nice to know that we are not alone in our view of games.

also, good luck with LotRO, hope it provides good fun for some time. It's not sandbox, but its very nice for themepark.

one more thing: i have noticed that, money not being an object, playing an MMO in bursts has offered me more fun and, most likely, less burnout. I really like to feel that I can pick it up any time and then be able to stop at any time, no strains attached.

For example, I am in a very nice guild that encourages socialization (also with other guilds/raidforces e.t.c.), RP (YES, at this day and age) and has a wide spectrum of members. It is perfectly OK when i am not playing for, say, 2-3 months and then come back and raid 3 times a week or participate in events, skirmishes and every other group activity. Granted, i limit myself as far as loot is concerned, since more active players need it most, but i get the same thrills and enjoyment like all the others (plus, when playing with all my hardcore friends, they do make sure i get good stuff, cause they already have most things anyway and need only specifics).  It's an ideal situation, i know, but can be done.

It was even better in SWG, let's hope something sandboxy this way comes

Originally posted by Kaminaxius

From what you wrote it sounds like you want a less WoW-copied MMO with more freedom and other incentives than mindless raiding

 

..i'd suggest you to try Darkfall:Unholy Wars when it launches (hopefully in less than a month or two) and perhaps Mortal Online which is already out and went free to play but has alot of flaws however it's still fun nontheless (I would recommend waiting for Darkfall:Unholy Wars which is currently in very early beta stage). Both of these mmo's are completely freedom-based mmo's this is a very old unofficial trailer of the first Darkfall game but it basically sums up what Darkfall Unholy Wars will be about aswell:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bYYT6Wg3Gg

I'd stay away from darkfall, or any open pvp mmo, they tend to be nothing but greif fests and gank fests. Darkfall is even worse since it allows full player corpse looting, that feature alone is what is going to cause the game to fail.

Anyway, I'm sorry to say but, pretty much every mmo tried to mimic what wow has done, i'm in the same boat as the OP, been waiting for a mmorpg thats actualy worth playing to come out since wow was released. Best advice I can give is maybe jump around some of the f2p mmorpgs, alot of them aren't trying to be wow clones. Lets see some decent ones IMO.. Dragonica, its a sidescrolling mmo, with realtime combat and such, pretty fun if you don't mind the cartoony/comical graphic's. Cosmic break is another f2p i found personally fun, its more pvp based, but the mech combinations you can make are near limitless. Ragnarok Online is not bad if you sub, but I am pretty sure you have probally played RO before. Sure these aren't the best games but meh, they fun to mess around in once in a while I find.

As for non-wow AAA deved mmo.. hasn't been one in recent years that doesn't feel like wow in a new wrapper. I do kinda reccomend everquest 2, but you'd need to buy the xpacs, Im waiting for one of their yearly versions where it has the most recent xpac and includes all the ones before it, you can also try eq2 in a freemium setup as well if you just wanna check it out, its a bit wow-like, but not nearly as bad as most other mmo's.

MMO's have kinda went backwards instead of forwards in recent years. WoW was so successful mostly because it was released at the right time, right place, and to the right audience. If wow's mechanics and such were why its consiered popular, then all the clones would not be dying in less than 6-12 months. I do suspect a shift in the next wave of MMO's. Due to devs noticing that biliant wow clones like swtor, etc, just do not make it anymore because people are getting tired of that sort of gameplay. I haven't seen a real raid boss in a mmo in like 8 years, they all have stuff that bascally tells u exactly what to avoid, and in some it even shows you where not to stand. I miss when raid bosses were totally random and would fling aoe's out with no warning, which means you have to react near instantly, compared to today where, your given like 5 sometimes 10 seconds to dodge an aoe, what gets me is some idiots STILL are unable to dodge this shit even when there is a graphic showing u its exact aoe range.

Anyway I wish you luck in finding a mmo, that doesn't feel like wow in a new skin, your going to need it because damn, I still haven't found one.

Originally posted by dalewj

I totally agree the industry has gone the wrong way.  I am playing Indie games, they aren't part of the industry and for Sandbox MMORPGs (my thing) I am very happy.

 

--Dale>

The problem is - you are a minority of the players not a majority. Games cost moeny to develop and to cater to a few whiney individuals just doesn't make GOOD BUSINESS SENSE.