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Guild Wars 2

Guild Wars 2 

General Discussion  » GW2 running into the same issues that Rift and WAR had

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123 posts found
  Quizzical

Guide

Joined: 12/11/08
Posts: 13155

1/10/13 7:11:42 PM#21

It's not a problem of levels.

Rather, if you're going to design content around the assumption of a particular number of players participating in it, then you'd better have some awfully strong measures in place to ensure that you've always got that number of players participating.

One way to do this is making an event scale all the way down to a single player so that it's realistically soloable if there's only one player there.  Another is making the number of active instances scale with the number of players doing the content, so that there is always about the right number doing your content unless your playerbase is too small to even fill a single server.  A third approach is creating NPCs to help you out if there aren't enough real players there.  There are probably others.

But if all you do is to assume that players will magically distribute themselves the way you want for no real reason in particular, then your game will quickly end up broken.

  QSatu

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/14/06
Posts: 1765

1/10/13 7:37:33 PM#22

You can easily solo like 90% of DEs in GW2.

Besides that ANet apparently is working on some systems to make people revisit older zones.

  Zorgo

Elite Member

Joined: 12/05/05
Posts: 2191

Who did wrong? The advertiser hired to sell the game or the consumer who put faith in advertising?

1/10/13 7:47:46 PM#23
Originally posted by Quizzical

It's not a problem of levels.

Rather, if you're going to design content around the assumption of a particular number of players participating in it, then you'd better have some awfully strong measures in place to ensure that you've always got that number of players participating.

One way to do this is making an event scale all the way down to a single player so that it's realistically soloable if there's only one player there.  Another is making the number of active instances scale with the number of players doing the content, so that there is always about the right number doing your content unless your playerbase is too small to even fill a single server.  A third approach is creating NPCs to help you out if there aren't enough real players there.  There are probably others.

But if all you do is to assume that players will magically distribute themselves the way you want for no real reason in particular, then your game will quickly end up broken.

I agree.

Having mixed level content within a particular zone/area in conjunction with a mentoring system which provided real and tangible benefits to the high level player could help too. The mentoring system would have to create true incentive to mentor down.

  User Deleted
1/10/13 8:05:03 PM#24

GW2 events scale to the number of participants, with only the very final events in a chain requiring a group (although these are still possible to solo by high level characters, my Mesmer can solo pretty much any Champion under level 70).

It isnt even close to being the same as Rift or WAR, which required large numbers for public quests.

If anything, the events are now far more enjoyable that you only have a handful of players completing them. They actually pose a challenge rather than mindlessly tagging mobs in a zerg.

  KhinRunite

Novice Member

Joined: 11/05/10
Posts: 897

1/10/13 8:14:10 PM#25

[Group Events] are one of the few remnants of "forced grouping" in this game as far as levelling up is concerned. Yes, it sucks that you can't solo Group Events, and God knows how many of these I had to skip because there's no one else in my immediate area. I can either do an LFG for this Group Event, which is what I do sometimes, or I could just skip it, since there's a lot more soloable events lying around. I wish ANet will never make these Group Events soloable.

It's not an issue as it is not intrusive to anything other than your desire to do that particular event.

  KingJiggly

Novice Member

Joined: 8/03/11
Posts: 807

Definition for innovation is below. Your welcome.

1/10/13 8:16:20 PM#26
I like npcs best. One player defeating say tequatl isnt cool lol

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/innovation

  Gorwe

Elite Member

Joined: 9/16/11
Posts: 1688

1/10/13 8:16:55 PM#27
There is not enough loot to DEs for me to even care. If you get Green you are lucky. Meanwhile in WAR and Rift you can get blues(100% sure) and even purples(at least in WAR you can-I know I got one that I used for the next 10 levels on my Lion in WAR).
Talk about broken loot tables(not even D3 is so broken)...
  Scalpless

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/22/07
Posts: 1270

1/11/13 2:45:18 AM#28

Normal events scale down to a single player. If you can't solo them, it's a L2P issue. Group events usually require a group, although I have soloed a few champions. I don't know the actual number, but I'd say less than 10% of events are group events.

Get a friend, level up together and you'll be able to play through most group events. Few of them require more than two players. GW2 is a solo-friendly game, but grouping is always better and faster.

  Torgrim

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 12/15/05
Posts: 2125

1/11/13 2:46:44 AM#29
Seems someone forgot that failing an event also gives xp,karma and silver not as much as complete it but still you are rewarded.

If it's not broken, you are not innovating.

  delete5230

Elite Member

Joined: 8/15/07
Posts: 2485

1/11/13 5:01:23 AM#30

This news sounds good if not great in my point of view.

I started a topic a few days ago that I could never see myself comming back to GW2.  It was way too easy and unsocial.  I would have to play about four levels above to have any kind of challange, getting gear four levels above me and hold on to it until I could use it.  My little point of view, Guilds were not needed as the game took care of that with auto group.

Now in what the OP is saying, then I may come back someday.....If he and many un social players don't like it then mmos may not be for them !..............I play mmos to be mmos, make friends and work togeather.

  InFlamestwo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/20/11
Posts: 677

1/11/13 5:03:54 AM#31
NO. Guild Wars 2 is still smooth and have a steady and growing playerbase.

  Leucent

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/24/04
Posts: 2452

1/11/13 5:12:44 AM#32
Originally posted by InFlamestwo
NO. Guild Wars 2 is still smooth and have a steady and growing playerbase.

Steady, sure, growing, not in the least. Why would you claim this.

  ReaperUk

Elite Member

Joined: 9/20/06
Posts: 552

1/11/13 5:13:49 AM#33
I quite often play in the middle of the night, say 3am to 5 am and have no problem soloing most of the DE's if I need to. Only the enes labelled as being for group actually need one. The rest scale to how many players are doing them. Having said that, I'm amazed that it's very rare on our server for other players not to turn up while I'm doing a DE no matter what time of day or night it is. That's in the mid levels too, as I've been levelling my latest alt from lvl 20 to 40 this past week.
  Isawa

Novice Member

Joined: 6/20/08
Posts: 1066

1/11/13 5:19:43 AM#34
Originally posted by Z3R01

 


Now here I am... in a mid tier zone in GW2 and i can't kill a orange event/mob because no one is around. I find myself avoiding content as I level.

 

They didn't and now anyone thats leveling gets to suffer...

I'd like to know the exact event, as my latest previous post on another thread was pretty much a response to this and how it isn't true. Just because there are not 30+ people per event, doesn't mean there aren't a handful around for any of the tough events. The vast majority of events are soloable as well.

  Kaleston

Novice Member

Joined: 9/08/11
Posts: 176

1/11/13 5:25:02 AM#35

First of all, I think GW2 dynamic events are still ok, you can mostly solo any event that is not marked "group" and for group events you usually need only a few people (most can be done by 2 people really). So in this respect it's preatty much the same as old quest style, where you got normal soloable quests and group quests that you needed group for.

As for what can be done... I think it's kinda simple and difficult at the same time. If you make very good level scaling, you can adjust rewards so that they drop according to your level and not level of the zone. Right now high level player has little reasons to go to lower zones (apart from explorer types), but if you got the same type of rewards you get in hgh level zones, nothing would really tie you to 80 level zones. Lower level zones would still be less populated then high level zones, but at least there would be good reason to go to lower zones.

Saying that downscaling is a key.... right now, if you got to level 10 zone as level 80 char, you pretty much one shot everything... it's not so crazy as in say wow, but still you are much more powerful than your typical level 10 character. This means less work for the same reward.... and we are back at the same problem only backwards.

tl;dr; if ou want to get people into lower level zones, you need to give them same rewards as they get from doing high level content.

  meddyck

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/18/08
Posts: 1129

1/11/13 5:26:38 AM#36

I think some of you are missing the point. Yes most dynamic events can be soloed. But they're tedious when done that way. Zones have been designed with the intention that there would be multiple dozens of players in them doing events together. They are a lot less fun when you're playing through them all by yourself or with a random player or two.

This is a population issue. On many servers at many times of day, there just aren't enough players in many zones for the zones to be fun to play in.  The solution therefore is not L2P, go to a lower level zone, etc. it's for Arenanet to do something to get more players into those zones.

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  Scalpless

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/22/07
Posts: 1270

1/11/13 5:33:35 AM#37
Originally posted by meddyck

I think some of you are missing the point. Yes most dynamic events can be soloed. But they're tedious when done that way.

Nope.

Originally posted by Z3R01

Now here I am... in a mid tier zone in GW2 and i can't kill a orange event/mob because no one is around. I find myself avoiding content as I level.

...

But in hindsight was it really a good decision to put these mechanics into the game? Now that GW2 is mostly top heavy, even with down scaling people are left skipping events or begging for help in map chat.

...

You would think after watching two companies fail with on the fly open world group content that A-net would have design GW2 to be adjusted later on when populations dipped.

He's saying events are too difficult and don't scale well enough. He's wrong. Also, I don't think GW2 color codes mobs.

Whether events are fun or not is another issue. I agree they're not as fun as they used to be and ANet should try to get players to spread more. Luckily, it's what they'll be doing with Jan/Feb/March updates.

  Isawa

Novice Member

Joined: 6/20/08
Posts: 1066

1/11/13 5:33:54 AM#38
Originally posted by meddyck

I think some of you are missing the point. Yes most dynamic events can be soloed. But they're tedious when done that way. Zones have been designed with the intention that there would be multiple dozens of players in them doing events together. They are a lot less fun when you're playing through them all by yourself or with a random player or two.

This is a population issue. On many servers at many times of day, there just aren't enough players in many zones for the zones to be fun to play in.  The solution therefore is not L2P, go to a lower level zone, etc. it's for Arenanet to do something to get more players into those zones.

Actually, when there were 20+ people per event, you didn't have to think or do anything other than auto-attack.

With 2-3 players per DE, I think they're much better. I much prefer to defeat a champion giant or something with a handful of players compared to 20+ where you don't do jack.

I guess some folks like not dodging and using skill to defeat enemies, but prefer the mass numbers of outzerging the enemy scale (the DEs cap at a certain number of players and don't get more difficult - this was observed the first couple of weeks with 30+ people per event).

 

  Havekk

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/14/08
Posts: 1352

1/11/13 5:42:26 AM#39
Originally posted by Lovely_Laly

1. you don't need DE to lvl at GW2, you have tone quests, personal story and gathering/crafting for it.

2. chain events resuming with reward chest still very popular, shame are few of such.

3. Cursed Shore offers lot of events as end game content. =XD You can farm all time there.

4. If not, try WvW, they have events too.

You mention skipping content and farming. Kinda glad I left now lol

  ReaperUk

Elite Member

Joined: 9/20/06
Posts: 552

1/11/13 5:54:55 AM#40
Originally posted by meddyck

I think some of you are missing the point. Yes most dynamic events can be soloed. But they're tedious when done that way. Zones have been designed with the intention that there would be multiple dozens of players in them doing events together. They are a lot less fun when you're playing through them all by yourself or with a random player or two.

This is a population issue. On many servers at many times of day, there just aren't enough players in many zones for the zones to be fun to play in.  The solution therefore is not L2P, go to a lower level zone, etc. it's for Arenanet to do something to get more players into those zones.

That's just your opinion. Personally, I get more enjoyment finishing an event on my own or with one or two other players than I did doing the same events with my first character at launch when I could face roll my way through them. I find it much more of a challenge when you actually have to consider tactics to complete some of them.

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