Originally posted by MMOExposed

I have a question. In games that allow a more non combat role, like older MMO, how many crafting professions could you have at a single time?

Was it locked to a few at a time like current mmo?

Depends on the game. SWG and UO had skill point at a time limits and games like AO rewards specialization but were technically unlimited.

Man I miss heavy involved crafting. I was one of the 3 people on the server that could make black dye in AO for the longest time.

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by Merilirem

 

I fully understand the joys of hulk smashing Loki, which was awesome. I simply mean that an intellectual pursuit, such as reading is deeper and more thought provoking, entrancing if you will, than your average movie of the same vein. I in no way meant to undermine movies or the thrill of visuals being thrown in your face. Movies are more relaxing in a way, since they don't require the same effort. I simply wished to use movies and books as an example. A good game after all can provide both visuals and deep story, dragging the player into a world of fantasy in a way which is hard for entirely visual or written experiences. I in no way wish to say that any form of entertainment is more valid than another, like you said simply in different ways.

ANd to expand on the point .. there are different style of entertaining gameplay experience, as different from books to movies.

I recently play a puzzle game on my iPad called The ROOM. Great game. Nothing but thinking and making connection .. more like a book. But at the same time, on the other spectrum, games does not have to be deep in story to be good. Diablo has a very thin story, but deep in combat mechanics .. and awesome as you can blow up many mobs at the same time.

I think it is a mistake to think that a MMO has to have this, or has to have that .. it is simply a matter of preference. Some enjoy playing a MMO like a SP game. Some enjoy playing a MMO like a lobby co-op game. Some enjoy a MMO as a world. Not everyone needs a deep world with a real population to enjoy a MMO.

Answered " Adventurer, explorer, just run about the place, maybe be a bard."

One of the things that can really throw a game for me is when NPCs treat me like I'm some sort of member of their military.

Pfft.  I did that once in real life, now I'm playing one in a game?  No thanks.

Great topic, OP. Welcome aboard!

I am all for choices and I generally dislike combat, avoiding it if I can. Combat is good now and again, even necessary at times, but I tire of it quickly and it soon becomes a chore getting from point A to point B. No, I am not seeking a "combat free" MMORPG :)

The thing is, all of the choices in the poll can co-exist. They just do not, but in a very few select games.

The book analogies are kind of interesting. How much actual fighting happens in Game of Thrones? It is written more about the characters and the interactions between them, not going out to kill Uber Troll all the time. I really cannot think of any book I have ever read that was 85% or more fighting. They may exist, I just have not read them. Yet MMOs want to be 85% or more about combat. This is great if that is what you like to do. Not so much if you would rather be doing other activities.

YAY! For freedom of choice!

PS: Loktofeit, pardon my ignorance, but what are "PBBGs"?

---

Originally posted by nariusseldon
I think it is a mistake to think that a MMO has to have this, or has to have that .. it is simply a matter of preference. Some enjoy playing a MMO like a SP game. Some enjoy playing a MMO like a lobby co-op game. Some enjoy a MMO as a world. Not everyone needs a deep world with a real population to enjoy a MMO.

---

Do you expect your puzzle games to have vast open worlds to explore?
Do you expect your FPS games to have intricate puzzles to decode?
Do you expect your Diablo IIIs to have in depth character development?

Why, oh why do you keep insisting on making MMOs massive FPS games? We all know you think anything besides combat is boring in an MMO. You have stated that well, and quite often. You hold up Diablo III as the ultimate MMO. You mention it in about 80% of your posts that I read since it came out.

Unfortunately, the majority of MMO players today feel as you do. MMOs have changed, just like Coke did when they tried their "new formula." This time, though, the change is taking hold. That leaves us "old timers" with very slim pickings to play for MMOs. What other genre of computer gaming offers vast open worlds with a slew of activities with other people to keep one occupied? What genre do I look to now for this type of entertainment? Tell me and I will leave MMOs alone, never looking back.

I feel like I do when in this real life scenario. A group of people are at a party, possibly outside having a good time. They happen to be smoking. Soon another person comes along to join in on the fun, but they not only dislike smoking, they detest it. Pretty soon, they are complaining about all the smoke. Instead of going somewhere where there is no smoking, they want to change what already is to suit them. Never mind that 5-10 others are there enjoying themselves. Never mind that they went where they went so as to not interrupt others enjoyment of the party. No. Instead of creating a new group of people to have a good time with, this person decides to change what is, into what they want.

This is happening with MMOs today.

I'm sorry for the outburst. It is just that your posts, and others like them, get on my nerves. Why change something that was good to begin with? Because it does not meet "your" own criteria? Then why did you start playing in the first place? Why not play your Diablo III games and have fun with them? They have their own genre.

It is because the majority of players agree with your thoughts. This really makes me sad. You, and those millions of other players, have taken a whole genre of gaming away from me. A genre I enjoyed playing "way back when." Now, there is no genre like the old MMORPGs.

As long as I'm not forced to either grind hundreds of thousands of mobs as a hero, or farm one billion materials and spend weeks doing boring repetitive activities as a farmer, I see potential for either role or anything in between them.

Sadly, the above seems to be the exact definition many games have of such roles.

I just want fun games where the available roles respect the setting.

Originally posted by MMOExposed

I have a question. In games that allow a more non combat role, like older MMO, how many crafting professions could you have at a single time?

Was it locked to a few at a time like current mmo?

Most don't lock you into a single skill or single skill set.

In UO, you have about 700-750 points you can allocate. Cap for a skill is 100 (125 with bonuses). For most skills, you don't need 100 in a skill to do everything it offers either. So, while you can't take all the skills the game offers, you havce freedom to pick and choose which you want.

In EVE, you can take any skills you want and have as many skills as you want. Your limitation is time, as skill gain is done passively over real time.

My primary interest in MMOs is exploration and adventure. Getting a bit sick of these 'you are all epic heroes on an epic journey' type games. Leave that for single player RPGs where stories actually work and don't seem as contrived as 'thousands and thousands of people are epic heroes'.

MMOs are about being part of a living breathing world and taking down monsters as part of a team. Not as an individual superhero.

Originally posted by madazz
Reminds me of UO again lol, my buddy was a Treasure Hunter (map reading and stuff) on one char, and a blacksmith/miner on another. Then he had his swordsmen. Meanwhile, I had another buddy who mastered in workworking/lumberjack... had a theif too and a third that he used as a healer with ghost speak. Then me, I had my mage/tamer, swordsman, theif and my tracker! Tracking was pretty enjoyable at first, but I ended up enjoying taming more. Was fun to go out and tame some mounts for people that they hadn't seen before and sell them at the bank. 

i miss those days :)

Originally posted by AlBQuirky

 

---

Originally posted by nariusseldon
I think it is a mistake to think that a MMO has to have this, or has to have that .. it is simply a matter of preference. Some enjoy playing a MMO like a SP game. Some enjoy playing a MMO like a lobby co-op game. Some enjoy a MMO as a world. Not everyone needs a deep world with a real population to enjoy a MMO.

---

Then you are in the wrong genre of games.

This is happening with MMOs today.

I'm sorry for the outburst. It is just that your posts, and others like them, get on my nerves. Why change something that was good to begin with? Because it does not meet "your" own criteria? Then why did you start playing in the first place? Why not play your Diablo III games and have fun with them? They have their own genre.

It is because the majority of players agree with your thoughts. This really makes me sad. You, and those millions of other players, have taken a whole genre of gaming away from me. A genre I enjoyed playing "way back when." Now, there is no genre like the old MMORPGs.

LOL ..of course i play Diablo.

But if a MMO plays like Diablo, why shouldn't i play it if i like Diablo?

You are horribly confused about me want to change anything. I am not a developers. I don't change games. I only play what i like. And if devs of MMOs want my business, and dev MMOs that play in the style i like, who am i to say no?

You sounds like genres are fixed, and i need to only consider "genre" that i like. I laugh at that kind of inflexibility. I look at all games, if it plays in ways i like, i play it. I don't play MMOs. I don't play FPS. I don't play ARPG. I play fun (to me) games and disregard genre lines.

That is why i think innovation is about crossing, and ignoring genre convention. Look at Borderland  ... very fun game. It is a FPS. It is a RPG. Who cares what genre it is in?

Look at STO. I like the story mission. I will play it as SP. Who cares it is supposed to be a world.

And you sound like others are trying to get you .. "take a whole genre away from me" .. me me me. Here is the deal. Few cares. They just go to gamestop, or go online, and try out games, and play those they like. No one is trying to get you. Genre changes all the time.

For example, i love locked room mysteries, but they are not written in the US after the golden age of John Dickson Carr. Do i cry and rant and complain about novel readers having bad taste? No, i find something else to do (or read the old ones).

Originally posted by AlBQuirky

 

---

Originally posted by nariusseldon
I think it is a mistake to think that a MMO has to have this, or has to have that .. it is simply a matter of preference. Some enjoy playing a MMO like a SP game. Some enjoy playing a MMO like a lobby co-op game. Some enjoy a MMO as a world. Not everyone needs a deep world with a real population to enjoy a MMO.

---

Then you are in the wrong genre of games.

 

Do you expect your puzzle games to have vast open worlds to explore?
Do you expect your FPS games to have intricate puzzles to decode?
Do you expect your Diablo IIIs to have in depth character development?

Why, oh why do you keep insisting on making MMOs massive FPS games? We all know you think anything besides combat is boring in an MMO. You have stated that well, and quite often. You hold up Diablo III as the ultimate MMO. You mention it in about 80% of your posts that I read since it came out.

Unfortunately, the majority of MMO players today feel as you do. MMOs have changed, just like Coke did when they tried their "new formula." This time, though, the change is taking hold. That leaves us "old timers" with very slim pickings to play for MMOs. What other genre of computer gaming offers vast open worlds with a slew of activities with other people to keep one occupied? What genre do I look to now for this type of entertainment? Tell me and I will leave MMOs alone, never looking back.

I feel like I do when in this real life scenario. A group of people are at a party, possibly outside having a good time. They happen to be smoking. Soon another person comes along to join in on the fun, but they not only dislike smoking, they detest it. Pretty soon, they are complaining about all the smoke. Instead of going somewhere where there is no smoking, they want to change what already is to suit them. Never mind that 5-10 others are there enjoying themselves. Never mind that they went where they went so as to not interrupt others enjoyment of the party. No. Instead of creating a new group of people to have a good time with, this person decides to change what is, into what they want.

This is happening with MMOs today.

I'm sorry for the outburst. It is just that your posts, and others like them, get on my nerves. Why change something that was good to begin with? Because it does not meet "your" own criteria? Then why did you start playing in the first place? Why not play your Diablo III games and have fun with them? They have their own genre.

It is because the majority of players agree with your thoughts. This really makes me sad. You, and those millions of other players, have taken a whole genre of gaming away from me. A genre I enjoyed playing "way back when." Now, there is no genre like the old MMORPGs.

Preach on!

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by AlBQuirky

 

---

Originally posted by nariusseldon
I think it is a mistake to think that a MMO has to have this, or has to have that .. it is simply a matter of preference. Some enjoy playing a MMO like a SP game. Some enjoy playing a MMO like a lobby co-op game. Some enjoy a MMO as a world. Not everyone needs a deep world with a real population to enjoy a MMO.

---

Then you are in the wrong genre of games.

This is happening with MMOs today.

I'm sorry for the outburst. It is just that your posts, and others like them, get on my nerves. Why change something that was good to begin with? Because it does not meet "your" own criteria? Then why did you start playing in the first place? Why not play your Diablo III games and have fun with them? They have their own genre.

It is because the majority of players agree with your thoughts. This really makes me sad. You, and those millions of other players, have taken a whole genre of gaming away from me. A genre I enjoyed playing "way back when." Now, there is no genre like the old MMORPGs.

LOL ..of course i play Diablo.

But if a MMO plays like Diablo, why shouldn't i play it if i like Diablo?

You are horribly confused about me want to change anything. I am not a developers. I don't change games. I only play what i like. And if devs of MMOs want my business, and dev MMOs that play in the style i like, who am i to say no?

You sounds like genres are fixed, and i need to only consider "genre" that i like. I laugh at that kind of inflexibility. I look at all games, if it plays in ways i like, i play it. I don't play MMOs. I don't play FPS. I don't play ARPG. I play fun (to me) games and disregard genre lines.

That is why i think innovation is about crossing, and ignoring genre convention. Look at Borderland  ... very fun game. It is a FPS. It is a RPG. Who cares what genre it is in?

Look at STO. I like the story mission. I will play it as SP. Who cares it is supposed to be a world.

And you sound like others are trying to get you .. "take a whole genre away from me" .. me me me. Here is the deal. Few cares. They just go to gamestop, or go online, and try out games, and play those they like. No one is trying to get you. Genre changes all the time.

For example, i love locked room mysteries, but they are not written in the US after the golden age of John Dickson Carr. Do i cry and rant and complain about novel readers having bad taste? No, i find something else to do (or read the old ones).

 

When something becomes radically different from the genre it spawned from it becomes its own genre. You like a different breed of games altogether. Not MMO's. MMO's are already highly defined. Your wants do not coincide with the MMO genre. They coincide with co-op and single player games.

Originally posted by oubers

Originally posted by madazz
Reminds me of UO again lol, my buddy was a Treasure Hunter (map reading and stuff) on one char, and a blacksmith/miner on another. Then he had his swordsmen. Meanwhile, I had another buddy who mastered in workworking/lumberjack... had a theif too and a third that he used as a healer with ghost speak. Then me, I had my mage/tamer, swordsman, theif and my tracker! Tracking was pretty enjoyable at first, but I ended up enjoying taming more. Was fun to go out and tame some mounts for people that they hadn't seen before and sell them at the bank. 

i miss those days :)

 

As do I! I hate them too because its like having the best sandwich ever and never being able to have it again. All the ingredients are there, but apparently its too hard to put together :(

Originally posted by madazz

 

When something becomes radically different from the genre it spawned from it becomes its own genre. You like a different breed of games altogether. Not MMO's. MMO's are already highly defined. Your wants do not coincide with the MMO genre. They coincide with co-op and single player games.

Who cares what genre the games are in if they are fun.

If you are so hung up on what they are called, try to get the whole industry change MMO to something else. When you are successful, i will use the new term.

If STO, DCUO, PS2, DDO ... oh and the upcoming Marvel Heroes are still in the MMO genre, i am playing MMOs.

And who says MMO has no co-op and SP gameplay? I am playing STO mission like a SP game last night.

I felt this thread to be of value to my own machinations http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/371070/page/1

His question shows great insight into people. I tend to be unable to ask the right questions alot of the time and his is proving to elicit very worthwhile responses from the community. Many of which I agree with and have been attempting to probe with my own threads. Although in a slightly different manner, I feel it shares common ground.

I think I need whole list for not to be bored. =D

I enjoy a bit of fight (better inside dungeon then dumb repetitive quests); enjoy good story line and cut scenes; then explorations, discovery and such; then why not crafting; after that I can enjoy fishing if it designed in nice and relax way; I would love to enjoy my house too, take care and bring new design there, may be have garden and grow nice flowers; I would love to make changes of my avatar, new look means less boredom and more enjoyment; trade itself I don't like but "explore" shops and action house, pretty much and make good money out of it.

I enjoy games where you can do a lot of different activities, only are not many of such games, so when I'm telling it has no content or boring, people think I troll them.

But all I want is game with large and good designed content, like WoW and very few others.

Originally posted by Wickedjelly
I want to be the dude playing a mean cowbell

This haha

but seriously, i'd want to be an ex-ranger, who got fed up with the crooked ass king and left to estabilish his own tavern in some foreign land. And eventually when the crooked ass king comes to invade the land the peoples of said landcome to him for his help and he reluctantly says yes, not because he wants to help, but because he hates that damn king.